Mike Anderson
01-18-2007, 09:05 PM
At long last, my 3.6Rs got here about a month ago, so I think I've had a decent amount of time to break them in and tweak them. Time to post a review!
Background: I'm powering these with a Musical Fidelity kw500 integrated amp, which puts out more than 700wpc @4 ohms. They're bi-wired with magwire. The source is a Benchmark DAC1 fed by a Squeezebox 2 (with a Behringer DEQ2496 in between for room correction). So far, I'm using the stock stands, but I have a pair of Mye Stands on order (stealth model).
My musical tests vary a great deal, but these days I listen to a lot of electronica (not trance!)/lounge/ambient/chill, whatever you want to call it, combined with a little of every other genre that exists (except for disco!) Jazz, rock, classical, blues, you name it, I listen to it. I like to listen LOUD, especially for the modern stuff with modern production values.
Evaluation: The first thing I did after setting them up was to calibrate the setup with the Behringer unit to get a flat response from my listening position. From about 300hz on up, the response was DEAD FLAT, like within 1 db or so, roughly speaking. (The readout on the Behringer unit isn't quite that exact, but it was *flat*, believe me!) From about 40hz to 150 hz, I could get it roughly flat, but with some peaks and valleys roughly 7-8db in difference. I attribute this to my room, not the speakers, as well as the fact that the Behringer unit is comparatively inexact.
After about a couple days or so of listening, I came to the conclusion that while this setup had fantastic resolution and detail, the sound was just too damned bright!! I can best describe it as "glare". There were certain recordings that were downright unpleasant to listen to at high volume. The treble would sort of "pierce your ears" (that's an extreme description; think of it as a gentle piercing!) and make you cringe a little. It just didn't make for that ecstatic, pleasure-soaked listening experience I've had in the past, with other setups. The result was major listening fatigue. After about an hour or so, I would just have to turn it down, and even then I felt like my ears were still cringing as I would get over-sensitized to it.
So I tried a number of fixes. I started with the room first, re-arranging things a little to move all hard, reflective surfaces far away. My wife bought a really nice, thick, high quality oriental carpet for the room (which we both love BTW). These changes had a modest impact, but didn't solve the problem entirely.
Next, I tried installing the 1 ohm resistors that come stock with the speakers to tame the ribbons. Well these took care of the glare problem, but they also took away a lot of the airiness and detail on the very high end. Most music sounded too dark and dull.
I also tried an RF choke. This seemed to clean up the highs a smidgen, but didn't really stop the glare. I tried the RF choke in series with the resistor, but that again left things too dark.
Next, I spent several days fiddling with the Behringer unit, modulating the highs at various frequencies and by various amounts. I was able to duplicate the effect of the 1 ohm resistor by simply taking about 3db off all frequencies above 2.5khz or so. To get rid of the glare completely, I dropped it down to about -5db, but this sounded way too dark.
Finally, I discovered the solution: I got things to sound absolutely perfect by gently scooping out a range of frequencies between 2khz and 5khz (centered on 3.5khz). At the center, the dip goes as low as -5db, and gradually rises back up to flat on either side.
Ah! That managed to completely eliminate the glare, while maintaining all the airiness and detail at the high end!
Now... it sounds FANTASTIC!
I can now blast this rig at very high volumes, and yet I always want to turn it up MORE! For some reason, it never really sounds that loud -- at least until my wife tries to tell me something, and I yell, "WHAT???? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
And all I want to do is listen more and more! The other night I stayed up until 2 AM because I couldn't bear to tear myself away from the glorious music. Thank god for my tolerant neighbors and wife!
The other thing is that over the past week or so, the bass has *really* opened up. Magnepan says you only get another 5hz of extension over time, but I don't think this really captures the improvement. Overall, the bass sounds like it's 20-30% more prominent than it was when I got them.
Unfortunately, I'm still not able to flatten the bass out completely. The Behringer unit simply doesn't have sufficiently narrow EQ bands, so I end up with peaks and valleys in-between the bands. And it's noticeable in the sound. But this isn't a fault of the speakers, it's really my room and the shortcomings of the Behringer (as much as I like it overall).
Some things to criticize about the speakers: The stock stands are way, way too flimsy for speakers of this quality. And the external crossover unit strikes me as awfully cheap. I have to wonder how much the sound suffers from this. I've read all the MUG and Audio Asylum tweaks on this score, and I used to thing these people were crazy, but now I'm not so sure, and I'm thinking about replacing it myself.
Also, I've ordered the Mye stands. Based on my experience with the Mye stands for the 1.6QRs, I expect these will tighten up the bass noticeably. I'll report back when I get them.
The bottom line from all this is that I learned that a perfectly flat response at the listening position does NOT necessarily sound good! There were certain recordings for which it was fine, but many recordings in my collection sounded way too bright, particularly at high volumes. This was a minor/rare problem with the 1.6QRs, but the 3.6Rs really bring the problem to light.
However, once addressed, the speakers sound awesome!! The sound is HUGE. The bass is rich and tight. And I know it will just continue to get better from here.
Personally, I'm looking into some EQ/room correction solutions that will let me implement several different curves and manipulate them from my listening chair as I switch from one track to the next. I think there's just way too much variation in production quality from album to album, especially listening to old recordings versus new ones, to allow for a one-size-fits-all solution.
Finally, while I thought the kw500 was simply a fantastic match with the 1.6QRs, I don't know if it goes as well with the 3.6Rs. The bass is quite strong and tight (and will be more so with the Mye stands), but I suspect some tube amps might have a somewhat smoother, more liquid midrange and high end. I think perhaps there's something about the ribbon that doesn't necessarily lend itself to a brutal, high-powered, muscle-bound, SS amp like the kw500. (The bass, on the other hand: Yum!)
I'm going to let it break in a while longer, tweak things a little more, try out some other EQ options (I'm looking at the DEQX unit, possibly bi-amping), and will re-evaluate soon.
Background: I'm powering these with a Musical Fidelity kw500 integrated amp, which puts out more than 700wpc @4 ohms. They're bi-wired with magwire. The source is a Benchmark DAC1 fed by a Squeezebox 2 (with a Behringer DEQ2496 in between for room correction). So far, I'm using the stock stands, but I have a pair of Mye Stands on order (stealth model).
My musical tests vary a great deal, but these days I listen to a lot of electronica (not trance!)/lounge/ambient/chill, whatever you want to call it, combined with a little of every other genre that exists (except for disco!) Jazz, rock, classical, blues, you name it, I listen to it. I like to listen LOUD, especially for the modern stuff with modern production values.
Evaluation: The first thing I did after setting them up was to calibrate the setup with the Behringer unit to get a flat response from my listening position. From about 300hz on up, the response was DEAD FLAT, like within 1 db or so, roughly speaking. (The readout on the Behringer unit isn't quite that exact, but it was *flat*, believe me!) From about 40hz to 150 hz, I could get it roughly flat, but with some peaks and valleys roughly 7-8db in difference. I attribute this to my room, not the speakers, as well as the fact that the Behringer unit is comparatively inexact.
After about a couple days or so of listening, I came to the conclusion that while this setup had fantastic resolution and detail, the sound was just too damned bright!! I can best describe it as "glare". There were certain recordings that were downright unpleasant to listen to at high volume. The treble would sort of "pierce your ears" (that's an extreme description; think of it as a gentle piercing!) and make you cringe a little. It just didn't make for that ecstatic, pleasure-soaked listening experience I've had in the past, with other setups. The result was major listening fatigue. After about an hour or so, I would just have to turn it down, and even then I felt like my ears were still cringing as I would get over-sensitized to it.
So I tried a number of fixes. I started with the room first, re-arranging things a little to move all hard, reflective surfaces far away. My wife bought a really nice, thick, high quality oriental carpet for the room (which we both love BTW). These changes had a modest impact, but didn't solve the problem entirely.
Next, I tried installing the 1 ohm resistors that come stock with the speakers to tame the ribbons. Well these took care of the glare problem, but they also took away a lot of the airiness and detail on the very high end. Most music sounded too dark and dull.
I also tried an RF choke. This seemed to clean up the highs a smidgen, but didn't really stop the glare. I tried the RF choke in series with the resistor, but that again left things too dark.
Next, I spent several days fiddling with the Behringer unit, modulating the highs at various frequencies and by various amounts. I was able to duplicate the effect of the 1 ohm resistor by simply taking about 3db off all frequencies above 2.5khz or so. To get rid of the glare completely, I dropped it down to about -5db, but this sounded way too dark.
Finally, I discovered the solution: I got things to sound absolutely perfect by gently scooping out a range of frequencies between 2khz and 5khz (centered on 3.5khz). At the center, the dip goes as low as -5db, and gradually rises back up to flat on either side.
Ah! That managed to completely eliminate the glare, while maintaining all the airiness and detail at the high end!
Now... it sounds FANTASTIC!
I can now blast this rig at very high volumes, and yet I always want to turn it up MORE! For some reason, it never really sounds that loud -- at least until my wife tries to tell me something, and I yell, "WHAT???? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
And all I want to do is listen more and more! The other night I stayed up until 2 AM because I couldn't bear to tear myself away from the glorious music. Thank god for my tolerant neighbors and wife!
The other thing is that over the past week or so, the bass has *really* opened up. Magnepan says you only get another 5hz of extension over time, but I don't think this really captures the improvement. Overall, the bass sounds like it's 20-30% more prominent than it was when I got them.
Unfortunately, I'm still not able to flatten the bass out completely. The Behringer unit simply doesn't have sufficiently narrow EQ bands, so I end up with peaks and valleys in-between the bands. And it's noticeable in the sound. But this isn't a fault of the speakers, it's really my room and the shortcomings of the Behringer (as much as I like it overall).
Some things to criticize about the speakers: The stock stands are way, way too flimsy for speakers of this quality. And the external crossover unit strikes me as awfully cheap. I have to wonder how much the sound suffers from this. I've read all the MUG and Audio Asylum tweaks on this score, and I used to thing these people were crazy, but now I'm not so sure, and I'm thinking about replacing it myself.
Also, I've ordered the Mye stands. Based on my experience with the Mye stands for the 1.6QRs, I expect these will tighten up the bass noticeably. I'll report back when I get them.
The bottom line from all this is that I learned that a perfectly flat response at the listening position does NOT necessarily sound good! There were certain recordings for which it was fine, but many recordings in my collection sounded way too bright, particularly at high volumes. This was a minor/rare problem with the 1.6QRs, but the 3.6Rs really bring the problem to light.
However, once addressed, the speakers sound awesome!! The sound is HUGE. The bass is rich and tight. And I know it will just continue to get better from here.
Personally, I'm looking into some EQ/room correction solutions that will let me implement several different curves and manipulate them from my listening chair as I switch from one track to the next. I think there's just way too much variation in production quality from album to album, especially listening to old recordings versus new ones, to allow for a one-size-fits-all solution.
Finally, while I thought the kw500 was simply a fantastic match with the 1.6QRs, I don't know if it goes as well with the 3.6Rs. The bass is quite strong and tight (and will be more so with the Mye stands), but I suspect some tube amps might have a somewhat smoother, more liquid midrange and high end. I think perhaps there's something about the ribbon that doesn't necessarily lend itself to a brutal, high-powered, muscle-bound, SS amp like the kw500. (The bass, on the other hand: Yum!)
I'm going to let it break in a while longer, tweak things a little more, try out some other EQ options (I'm looking at the DEQX unit, possibly bi-amping), and will re-evaluate soon.