24: Day Six Discussion Thread! [Archive]

Woochifer

01-16-2007, 07:04 PM

BIG TIME SPOILER ALERTS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN 6am TO 10am YET!

O h M y F r i g g i n G a w d ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

I thought the much ballyhooed SHOCKING ENDING was going to be Jack killing Curtis. That one got telegraphed from the outset (why oh why did they have to give it away by identifying Roger Cross as a "GUEST STAR"?). Even though I was not totally surprised, seeing Jack forced to kill a CTU agent who had previously helped keep him alive on so many past occasions still hit pretty hard. But, I absolutely was not prepared for L.A. getting NUKED as the clock struck 10! :yikes:

Man, talk about a rough way to start the day! Jack just got dumped out of a transport plane from China, sold out by the President, tortured by revenge-obsessed terrorists, saved a teenage hostage, cut a deal with a supposedly repentant terrorist mastermind just seconds before his safehouse got blown up by a military missile, kicked a suicide bomber out the window of a moving subway car in a nick of time.

So, what does he get for all his trouble? He gets back an old job that he doesn't want, AND as part of that job he has to kill a guy that he worked with on countless dangerous missions. Oh, and a nuke just detonated in his hometown. Usually, I'm just finishing up with my e-mail by 10am!

And now there are four more of these suitcase nukes out there. Should be an interesting ride. In past years, the nuke story has usually been a ruse for taking the plot in a totally different direction (like in Day Two when the nuke they were chasing got detonated halfway through the season).

All in all, the first four episodes did not weave quite as tight a plot web as last year (I would say that last season's opening salvo was the best one to date), but they still know how to ratchet up the tension and create impactful moments at just the right time. (Speaking of which, they're playing with the real time plot device even more loosely this season -- c'mon, it does NOT take 10 minutes to get from Newhall to Granada Hills!)

Looks like 24 will fly fast without a safety net this season. It's impactful because they deliberately tried to bring the events closer to everyday reality, but the show is also riding precariously close to becoming overly cartoonish (which they did last year as well, but still managed to hold the show together). I think they're trying to keep a lot of the situations more reflective of current events, but the dialog seems more stunted than usual this season.

It also seems that they're trying to keep the audience guessing, and immersing the situations into all sorts of grey areas. For example, Ahmed's dad getting taken into custody by the FBI, when the dad is innocent and the teenage son is the actual terrorist. Or having the neighbor try to kill Ahmed in a bigoted rage, when in actuality Ahmed was far more dangerous than the neighbor ever suspected. Or forcing Jack to choose between Curtis, a colleague who's had his back for years, and Assad, a known terrorist mastermind who they need to keep alive in order to save others. Or the simmering conflict between the President and his sister, and the potential situation developing at the detention facility. Or Jack backing off from torturing a terrorist, while Assad shows him some pointers on how to be a ruthless interrogator.

In upcoming episodes, I can see Assad turning into much more of an ambiguous character. And of course, there are any number of moles that could emerge at CTU and the White House. In the end, I have a feeling that the Islamic terrorists will turn out to be a ruse -- something more conspiratorial going on. That White House Chief of Staff is way too obvious a mole, and having him involved in these terrorist plots at the behest of other shadowy figures behind the scenes would duplicate way too much from last season. Karen Hayes would be more of a likely mole IMO.

With Jack, he's been teetering as the tormented shell of a man. It should be interesting to see how he reacts to the nuke going off. Up to this point, he's been tentative, but the preview seems to indicate that he's about to go completely off the deep end and employ even more ruthless tactics than ever.

From the previews, it looks like those "behind the scenes" dudes from last season will get the first whiff of Jack's bad attitude. We'll see!

Oh, and anyone notice some of the interesting casting decisions?

First and foremost, Kal Penn as a terrorist?! C'mon he's KUMAR!!!! Stoners with the munchies don't get mixed up with guys shopping around for a-bomb parts! Already, I'm reading comments on the net like, "Dude, Ahmed got nuked on the way to White Castle!" Sad that he's already dyed!

Also, Alexander Siddig as a terrorist mastermind?! Anyone remember him as Doctor Bashir from DS9? It just doesn't add up!

People are already noting Peter MacNichol getting typecast by Numb3rs and Ally McBeal, but I still can't get over the poor man's keymaster (or was it gatekeeper?) from Ghostbusters II now playing the White House Chief of Staff.

You also got Regina King (as Sandra Palmer) and Harry Lennix (as Walid Al-Rezani, the head of the IAA) together again. She played the wife, and he played the manager on Ray.

Or how about Megan Gallagher (as the mother that Ahmed took hostage) and Mary Lynn Rajskub (Chloe), two alums from the Larry Sanders Show?

Apparently, we got more on the way with Rick Schroder and James Cromwell due to join the cast sometime this season.

Groundbeef

01-18-2007, 11:35 AM

I don't want to say that 24 "jumped the shark" but I am not sure I like this season so far.

Too many plotlines, (just for the sake of plotlines).

1. The whole Cloe and 2 dudes love problems top the list.

2. Fahied (sp) the terrorist wanted the "suitcase" nuke dude released from jail so he could set up the bomb. Said released terrorist gets the nuke up and running, then dies in the subsequent explosion. So how in the hell is Fahied going to detonate the remaining 4 bombs. Why introduce the released baddy just to kill him if you don't even need him?

3. Minor quibble here. When the Sgt kills the bus driver, and releases the bomb master, it seems well planned in advance. Why then didn't they provide him with some fresh clothes rather than cut him loose in LA in his ORANGE JUMP SUIT? And how 5 minutes later did he arrive at the safe house IN STREET CLOTHES?

4. PLEASE PLEASE drop the premise of the "Real Time" BS. If any season needs more time, its this one. Killing your best friend, and having a nuke blow up will generally mess up your day. Plus, I can only imagine traffic in LA after a nuke goes off. Will be interesting to see how they handle the mass exodus. For gods sake, we couldn't even evcuate NO after a hurricane for days.

5. The President/Sister Lawyer/Civil Rights Debate. Comon, gonna solve this one in 1 day? Please. I thought she was escorted home, barred from her husband/Arab and yet 5 minutes later she is having a private meeting where he confides that some Arabs were talking to each other about something important. AGGGGGHHHHH

As more come up I will post them.

kexodusc

01-18-2007, 12:07 PM

Groundbeef

01-18-2007, 12:44 PM

Hey! I've finally caught up to all you 24 nutbars!

Okay - my take -
When did Palmer(s) get a sister? If Jack has a twin brother, I'm outta here.

Other than that - I loved the start of this season compared to Season 5.

All the plot holes and minor annoyances are a necessary evil to exercise the concept of real time, and to make every episode a fast paced, thrill-ride. You either like it or you don't. But after 5 seasons, you've probably made up your mind.

Curtis biting the big one was a bit of surprise - I'm waiting for Chloe to get nuked next...that'll be the tear-jerker of the season.

Actually, I'll disagree with you on some points. I have set aside my annoyance with the whole "Real Time" thing. At this point its a lost cause, and I can work around it.

Some of the other points are not so minor. The issue of the nuke tech dude will be harder to get around. Why go to all the trouble of having Fahied bomb around the country to force the Pres to release him. Then turn around to have him killed shortly thereafter. If Fahied needed him to make the bombs work, what now? It was a silly plotline that now leaves more problems than it answered. Its not like world class nuke techs are released from prision everyday.

And the plotline with Chloe and the 2 dudes? That was just stupid. The acting was stilted, and the dialog was just lame. I gotta belive that if these 2 idiots are quibbling over a movie date vs protecting the free world then 24 "jumped the shark".

The escapee with the prision garb was a minor quibble. But it just bothered me, thats all.

I'm still watching, and am enjoying the show. But together some of these issuse make it distracting to watch.

As far as Curtis going, saw that coming, but not quite as quickly. Obviously he had issues. The writing was a bit ham-fisted but the action was good. I liked the part after Jack barfed on lawn, that he got a call from CTU. How thoughtful they offered a ride to headquarters. Apparently no de-briefing is needed on the downing of one of their own.

Woochifer

01-18-2007, 01:34 PM

I don't want to say that 24 "jumped the shark" but I am not sure I like this season so far.

Too many plotlines, (just for the sake of plotlines).

It seems like an annual ritual now to see how close 24 gets to finally jumping the shark. They came very close towards the end of last season, but then again, you could say that for every season dating back to the Teri-gets-amnesia story from Day One, or the Kim-gets-chased-by-the-mountain-lion story from Day Two.

I agree that there are too many plotlines. Last season started with a much more streamlined narrative, and I was hoping that they would return to the much tighter narrative that the series had during Day One (well, the first half at least), which focused more on personal peril than the super sized WMD stories that have followed since then.

I read that the producers started filming this season with fewer stories mapped out in advance (last season, IIRC they had 8 scripts completed already when they started shooting), so the writing will be a lot more improvisational. And from what I've seen so far, they are definitely going with a more chaotic story structure this time around, so if any season has the potential of jumping the shark, this would be it. But, in years past, they've managed to hold things together just enough to keep the audience from totally jumping ship.

1. The whole Cloe and 2 dudes love problems top the list.

I like Morris O'Brian and am glad to see him back this season. Milo though was never one of my favorite characters. He had some good exchanges with Chloe back in Day Four. But, it's pretty lame to set him up as someone who actually snagged a couple of dates with Chloe, unlike Morris who I can easily see as Chloe's type. I know the producers like to throw little nuggets out to long-time fans by bringing back minor characters from previous seasons (like when Mandy the terrorist bi-babe makes her bi-annual appearances), but Milo would not have been my first choice.

2. Fahied (sp) the terrorist wanted the "suitcase" nuke dude released from jail so he could set up the bomb. Said released terrorist gets the nuke up and running, then dies in the subsequent explosion. So how in the hell is Fahied going to detonate the remaining 4 bombs. Why introduce the released baddy just to kill him if you don't even need him?

Good point, hadn't thought about that one. I'm pretty sure that Fayed has got some other nuclear engineers on his payroll. Guess we'll have to keep watching to see how the writers bust out of yet another logical corner that they've painted themselves into.

3. Minor quibble here. When the Sgt kills the bus driver, and releases the bomb master, it seems well planned in advance. Why then didn't they provide him with some fresh clothes rather than cut him loose in LA in his ORANGE JUMP SUIT? And how 5 minutes later did he arrive at the safe house IN STREET CLOTHES?

I think a bigger question is how did Jack get shaved, showered, and groomed for action in less than 11 minutes?

4. PLEASE PLEASE drop the premise of the "Real Time" BS. If any season needs more time, its this one. Killing your best friend, and having a nuke blow up will generally mess up your day. Plus, I can only imagine traffic in LA after a nuke goes off. Will be interesting to see how they handle the mass exodus. For gods sake, we couldn't even evcuate NO after a hurricane for days.

Dumping the real time premise ain't gonna happen, so might as well grit them teeth and keep watching. Personally, I think the real time premise is the star of the show, and is bigger than any of the characters. Jack can be killed, and 24 can still go on, but kill the real time premise, and you no longer have 24. You might still have a serial drama, and even a very good serial drama, and maybe even a serial drama that's better than 24, but you won't have 24.

5. The President/Sister Lawyer/Civil Rights Debate. Comon, gonna solve this one in 1 day? Please. I thought she was escorted home, barred from her husband/Arab and yet 5 minutes later she is having a private meeting where he confides that some Arabs were talking to each other about something important. AGGGGGHHHHH

As more come up I will post them.

This is why I thought the dialog was stunted. They're trying to set up all of the murky gray areas that these detention facilities (among other touchy issues) create. In a way, it seems rushed, but I think the producers are trying to cover their back sides, so that viewers don't view the show as some kind of one-sided political agenda. Hard to walk that line gracefully when the situations they depict mirror current events more closely than previous seasons.

Woochifer

01-18-2007, 01:56 PM

Hey! I've finally caught up to all you 24 nutbars!

Okay - my take -
When did Palmer(s) get a sister? If Jack has a twin brother, I'm outta here.

Jack doesn't have a twin brother (well, as far as we know), but apparently we'll get to know his estranged dad this season.

All the plot holes and minor annoyances are a necessary evil to exercise the concept of real time, and to make every episode a fast paced, thrill-ride. You either like it or you don't. But after 5 seasons, you've probably made up your mind.

The real time aspect creates a dynamic that other shows don't have, but it also sets up a lot of issues with how to move the storyline along without the luxury of cutting ahead a few minutes or an hour here and there. As a native Angeleno, I've always laughed at the time component because almost any trip across town you take in L.A. will keep you in the car for at least 40 minutes! This season, they're really pushing things with getting between Downtown and the San Fernando Valley and the Santa Clarita Valley, and whatever unknown military base got built in the middle of L.A. But, I take the good with the bad, and have pretty much resigned to whatever time series lapses the writers throw out there.

Curtis biting the big one was a bit of surprise - I'm waiting for Chloe to get nuked next...that'll be the tear-jerker of the season.

NOOOOOO!!!!! :eek: Them's blasphemous words!!!!! If the writers want to kill Chloe, they must answer to me first! They can do whatever they want to Jack, but Chloe's off limits!!!! :ihih:

I really like the casting so far - last year (my bachelor party weekend actually) I saw that Shaun Majumder dude do a comedy routine at a bar in Montreal (the scientist dude who fixed the nuke)...that guy is hilarious. Didn't know he was an actor too.

Mondays are gonna be tough, with Prison Break, Heroes, and 24...thank goodness for PVR's.

I saw some news report about a Muslim-themed comedy series in Canada called Little Mosque On The Prairie, and noticed that Carlo Rota (who plays Chloe's ex-husband) was on that show (apparently, the show has garnered big ratings in Canada and there's discussion about how to bring it to the U.S.). Lot of interesting casting all around, considering that Kal Penn, Mary Lynn Rajskub, Megan Gallagher, and Peter MacNichol all come from comedy backgrounds. I know that Rajskub (Chloe) still does stand-up and improv sketch comedy.

recoveryone

01-18-2007, 02:25 PM

Woo, come on 40min in LA......? more like 1 hour during the daylight hours. And you notice they never show Jack and his peeps on the fwy. And there is no way you could get around that fast on the streets.

And seeing Kal Penn in a serious role is hard after seeing him in the White Castle movie. I can only see him getting high. I was just waiting for him to tell that kid he had a gun on to reach in his pocket and pull out a bag of weed. So he could deal with the pain. lol lol

Woochifer

01-18-2007, 05:28 PM

Woo, come on 40min in LA......? more like 1 hour during the daylight hours. And you notice they never show Jack and his peeps on the fwy. And there is no way you could get around that fast on the streets.

Ever heard of that term "kojak" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kojak) in reference to grabbing a parking spot right by a front entrance like Telly Savalas used to do every week in the old 70s TV series? Pretty much the same deal with Bauer on the L.A. freeways!

And seeing Kal Penn in a serious role is hard after seeing him in the White Castle movie. I can only see him getting high. I was just waiting for him to tell that kid he had a gun on to reach in his pocket and pull out a bag of weed. So he could deal with the pain. lol lol

I was thinking the same thing! Dude needs to lighten up and light up! :arf:

kexodusc

01-19-2007, 04:46 AM

NOOOOOO!!!!! :eek: Them's blasphemous words!!!!! If the writers want to kill Chloe, they must answer to me first! They can do whatever they want to Jack, but Chloe's off limits!!!! :ihih:
Funny how she sort of stole the babe-role from Kim..

I saw some news report about a Muslim-themed comedy series in Canada called Little Mosque On The Prairie, and noticed that Carlo Rota (who plays Chloe's ex-husband) was on that show (apparently, the show has garnered big ratings in Canada and there's discussion about how to bring it to the U.S.). Lot of interesting casting all around, considering that Kal Penn, Mary Lynn Rajskub, Megan Gallagher, and Peter MacNichol all come from comedy backgrounds. I know that Rajskub (Chloe) still does stand-up and improv sketch comedy.

OMG - I think it's only 2 shows into the series, but Little Mosque on the Prairie is hilarious. I think it'd be a hit on Showtime or some cable channel. It plays up every western world stereo-type/phobia you can imagine - in a not-too-serious, satirical way. I guess about once every 5 years Canada produces an international hit. We don't get many of them back in the US - Degrassi was the only one I could recall growing up watching.
The other big home grown hit here is "Trailer Park Boys"...that's something else.

Woochifer

01-19-2007, 04:54 PM

Funny how she sort of stole the babe-role from Kim..

Well, I always thought that Mandy the Mercenary was more of the resident 24 babe, but she only dropped by the party every couple of years until Jack dropped her permanently.

Chloe's upgraded her look this season, but her babeness is still very nicely understated (I can easily see her as the mousy computer nerd by day and siren nympho by night -- remember that tattoo that Chloe flashed in last season's premiere?). Chloe's just a great character. Problem w/ 24 this season is that they've killed off so many of their best supporting characters that it's hard to develop the new ones.

But, among the new characters I think the babe-of-the-moment is Nadia (the Arab-speaking agent at CTU). :cool:

OMG - I think it's only 2 shows into the series, but Little Mosque on the Prairie is hilarious. I think it'd be a hit on Showtime or some cable channel. It plays up every western world stereo-type/phobia you can imagine - in a not-too-serious, satirical way. I guess about once every 5 years Canada produces an international hit. We don't get many of them back in the US - Degrassi was the only one I could recall growing up watching.
The other big home grown hit here is "Trailer Park Boys"...that's something else.

Canadian TV, eh? Growing up for me, it started (and pretty much ended) with SCTV. Like the original SNL cast, SCTV had an embarassment of riches with their great ensemble.

From that report on Little Mosque On The Prairie, it seems that the show might migrate south of the border as an American remake. Would be a shame if they went the remake route because I'm kinda curious about the original Canadian version, and I'm always wary of how an Americanized version might tinker with something that was fine the first time around. Think Iron Chef America ! :eek:

kexodusc

01-20-2007, 09:54 AM

Canadian TV, eh? Growing up for me, it started (and pretty much ended) with SCTV. Like the original SNL cast, SCTV had an embarassment of riches with their great ensemble.

From that report on Little Mosque On The Prairie, it seems that the show might migrate south of the border as an American remake. Would be a shame if they went the remake route because I'm kinda curious about the original Canadian version, and I'm always wary of how an Americanized version might tinker with something that was fine the first time around. Think Iron Chef America ! :eek:

I only got to enjoy SCTV in re-runs. Once every decade or so, a Canadian show penetrates the US market. In the 90's it was Kids in the Hall.
From what I've seen, other than the two shows I've mentioned there really isn't very much Canadian programing other than political satire and late night shows worth watching, and those just wouldn't resonate with a US audience. Once every few years, a few very clever low budget shows do enjoy some success though.

Back on topic - I had a debate with another 24 fan at the office centering around the threats each season has. Assassinations, nukes, and chemical warfare seem to be the only 3 threats used in 24 so far (though sometimes in combinations). We wondered how long until this becomes stale.

Personally, I think there's only so many possible attacks a terrorist group would resort to anyway, and the most effective would be the aforementioned, so I don't think it should be a problem. It will be interesting to see how this season's nuclear dilemma plays out. I don't think it's the crisis as much as the people involved and sub-plots and turns along the way that make the show succeed. We'll see.

Groundbeef

01-20-2007, 12:58 PM

Personally, I think there's only so many possible attacks a terrorist group would resort to anyway, and the most effective would be the aforementioned, so I don't think it should be a problem. It will be interesting to see how this season's nuclear dilemma plays out. I don't think it's the crisis as much as the people involved and sub-plots and turns along the way that make the show succeed. We'll see.

Day 7 will involve a radical (arn't they all?) element of Quebec sneaking over the border, and causing all of the US to become a French Province. Jack will be forced to join a labor union, and farmers will begin to overturn carts full of potatoes to protest genetic engineering.

Woochifer

01-23-2007, 09:59 AM

HOLY CRAP! Graham is Jack's BROTHER!!!!! :eek:

Among all the plot twists that the writers have come up with, this is by far the least expected one I've seen to date! I knew from last week's previews that Graham was coming back, but the disclosure that he's Jack's brother is a brilliant plot twist.

Now, I'll definitely have to rewatch Day Five! Would be very interesting now to see Graham pulling President Logan's strings and trying to have Jack taken out, knowing that the two of them are brothers. What an absolutely slimey bastard. Jack's already pissed at Graham, and he doesn't even know the half of what his brother has already done!

Geez, talk about yin and yang!

This sets up a very interesting dynamic with the father. Jack is the estranged son, whereas Graham seems like he's still tight with Daddy Bauer. I have a feeling that the old man won't be going into this family reunion with good intentions.

With the family dynamic now in full bloom, Day Six could very well be a lot more interesting than just another WMD chase.

kexodusc

01-23-2007, 10:23 AM

Groundbeef

01-23-2007, 10:30 AM

I have to say I was more impressed with this episode than the first 4 hours. Things are tighting up, and making sense.

I like how the handled the dead nuke engineer. I'll grant creative license how they will get another one in 19 hours.

I think they should have titled this series "Everyone and their Brother"

The only quibble I have left is the makeup. On paper, I am sure the writers thought it brilliant to give Jack a "bum" hand. However, its only the 5th hour, and the "scars" are becoming MUCH less pronouced and detailed. I watch on HD, and it is very apparent that the makeup artists, cant make the same look show to show.

The back scars were enough, at least they won't be a distraction. With the hand its almost a bad joke.

Also, havent figured out the Buchannan, and his Wife dynamic (the lady in the White House) Seems that they are married, or at least serious. Have to see how it plays out.

Woochifer

01-23-2007, 12:38 PM

Yeah, that was a bit of a surprise - That Graham's a slimy bastard. I guess if Palmer has a sister, Jack can have a brother.
This adds a nice bet of drama to the show and keeps it from having to rehash old themes. And finally, a villain everyone can hate who could be Jack's equal....that's what every story needs!

Might even have two villians that are Jack's equal if the father turns out to be the "man behind the man behind the man." So many directions that the Philip Bauer character can go in, and I love that James Cromwell is playing the part. He's equally adept at playing good guys and villians, and I have a feeling that his character will keep the audience guessing for at least a few episodes.

Like you, I was afraid that this season would turn into yet another nuke chase, but this whole family dynamic offers up countless directions in which the story can now go. Last season, Graham was a very mysterious character in that we knew nothing about him other than having a lot of leverage over President Logan and wanting Jack dead. I thought that 24 has worked very well in the past when the peril and threats were more at the personal level (the first half of Day One, and the first four hours of Day Five). This brings the story back to that level.

I know that Logan and his (former?) wife are coming back in the middle of the day. With Graham back and more fully revealed as a character, I now see how Logan's return might fit into the current plot thread. Looks like this season will be a very interesting ride!

Also, havent figured out the Buchannan, and his Wife dynamic (the lady in the White House) Seems that they are married, or at least serious. Have to see how it plays out.

They are married (or at least engaged) -- the camera zoomed in on their rings during the first hour. I think something's going to happen with them. I see Hayes as a potential mole (if you'll recall from Day Five, she was fairly easily manipulated), or uncovering stuff behind the scenes at the White House that puts her and/or Buchanan in peril. Bill and Chloe are probably the only two characters that Jack can count on (make that three if Secret Service Agent Pierce comes back). Everybody else is a potential turncoat.

topspeed

01-23-2007, 01:10 PM

Groundbeef

01-23-2007, 03:21 PM

I love that James Cromwell is playing the part. He's equally adept at playing good guys and villians, and I have a feeling that his character will keep the audience guessing for at least a few episodes.

Well at least he didn't have a part in ROBOCOP. Last season there were at least 2 actors from the film in it, both playing villians.

Woochifer

01-23-2007, 04:12 PM

OK, first and foremost, Wooch and Kex; when was the last time either of you had an eye exam? Chloe? A babe? You're joking, right? Nadia (the director under Buchanon), now there's a babe.

http://www.scientology-kills.org/images/celeb_lg_nichols_m1.gif

Well, like I said Chloe does it in a more understated way. There's more to a book than its cover (though I did note that Nadia's got a VERY nice cover!), and I suspect that there's a lot more to Chloe than just her nerdy CTU persona, since she's got this thing for tattoos and sleeping around with the other CTU techies. Besides, we don't know what she does on her days off ... maybe she's one of those types who gets invited to all those parties where the in-people hang out!

http://images.wikia.com/24/images/2/2d/Sag2.jpg

Of course, if we want to stick with shallower persuasions (and since I'm a guy, I don't see anything wrong with that!), how 'bout them 24 writers giving us a snot-knockin' girlfight between Nadia the CTU Agent and Mandy the Mercenary? :cool: (Final word to the 24 writers: don't give me that "But, Mandy is dead" BS! You already brought Jack up from the dead on Day Two, so give us back our terrorist bi-babe!)

http://www.l-word.org/images/mia-kirshner.jpghttp://hails-lword.net/gallery_cpg/albums/Cast/Mia%20Kirschner/Venice%20Film%20Festival/Venice_024.jpg

How cool would it have been to get Donald Sutherland to play Jack's dad? Nothing against Cromwell, who's a mighty fine actor in his own right, but you have to admit that would have been pretty interesting. Besides, Sutherland does a great job of playing slimy characters. Next episode looks very interesting. It takes a lot of bad blood to torture your own brother!

That would have been really cool. Sutherland is great at playing characters that just a little bit off-base. But, if Philip Bauer is some higher up honcho in the military-industry complex and could potentially swing anywhere from benevalent businessman/father figure to evil incarnate power broker, Cromwell's a great casting choice.

I suspect that Graham is no one's fool, and could have some surprises in store for Jack. And if not for being tied to that chair and suffocating on that plastic bag, Graham actually has the upper hand on Jack because he knows the extent of his own treachery, while Jack presumably does not have a clue (yet).

Well at least he didn't have a part in ROBOCOP. Last season there were at least 2 actors from the film in it, both playing villians.

Make that 3 actors if you include the Vice President.

Groundbeef

01-23-2007, 05:11 PM

Make that 3 actors if you include the Vice President.

I remember Peter Weller, the guy from "That 70's Show" (Dick Jones from the movie I belive), and Jacks brother. I can't recall who the VP was last season. Who was the VP?

Woochifer

01-23-2007, 07:56 PM

I remember Peter Weller, the guy from "That 70's Show" (Dick Jones from the movie I belive), and Jacks brother. I can't recall who the VP was last season. Who was the VP?

That VP would be Ray Wise, he played another member of Boddicker's gang in Robocop.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0936403/

As far as I can tell from IMDB, neither Kurtwood Smith (Boddicker, and the dad from That 70's Show) nor Ronny Cox (Dick Jones) have been on 24.

kexodusc

01-24-2007, 05:50 AM

Speedy, I can't speak for Wooch, but when it comes to babes, let's just say Kex is an equal-opportunity employer...

kexodusc

01-24-2007, 05:51 AM

And I'm still waiting to see if Graham is Jack's evil-twin brother....

kexodusc

01-24-2007, 05:53 AM

Groundbeef

01-24-2007, 11:24 AM

That VP would be Ray Wise, he played another member of Boddicker's gang in Robocop.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0936403/

As far as I can tell from IMDB, neither Kurtwood Smith (Boddicker, and the dad from That 70's Show) nor Ronny Cox (Dick Jones) have been on 24.

Once again, your correct sir. For some reason I thought that Kurtwood had been on the show. Did a quick google for "Kurtwood Smith 24" and came up with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtwood_Smith

There is a blurb about speculation that he WILL be in the 6th (current) season.

Not sure what the fascination w/RoboCop and 24 writers are, but I'll BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR!

nightflier

01-26-2007, 03:51 PM

Okay, one last thought - sorry for the multiple threads - my wife picked up on this right away - but didn't the exchange between Jack and Graham's son seem a little "forced". Almost like Jack was reflecting on something - she thinks Jack's the daddy....

Yup. I'm gona go with that too. And she could be from the Middle East or Russia. Sounds like the family connections are going to become an important element of this day's plot direction.

Now I know it takes a lot to torture one's brother, but I think that Jack was changed in China. He's now much more of an automaton and follows orders even if it means killing Curtis or cutting off his brother's fingers - something Graham isn't getting, apparently. From the begining of the day, I thought that Jack was different and I'm certain this is going to play into the plot.

One would think, and maybe the writers intended the audience to think so, that after 2 years in a Chinese prison Jack would be more unstable and unpredictable (which is certainly what Buchanon and Curtis were expecting at 6am). But I think he is the opposite - he is now the ultimate soldier, the one who has no feelings, feels no pain, and will do whatever it takes for his handlers. His distance from his daughter and the exchange with his brother's wife and son are another indication of this. He has no ties anymore, no soul anymore. How he will reconnect with Chloe will also be interesting...

Now the only issue with such a rigid personality is that it is brittle and this is what we see when he says he can't do this anymore or when he seems to have lost the ability to interrogate someone effectively. But then there is always something worse, something greater that gets him back in line. There's a psychological dynamic at work here that is going to be interesting to watch as it plays out.

As a side note, that whole bit about Jack not having given up anything under two years of torture - hogwash. The truth is that it takes about 5-6 days to break someone if they know something. Through-self inflicted pain and fatigue any man or woman (takes a little longer) can be broken in a week, maybe even days. If they don't know anything, then it can take much longer to determine this - which is unfortunate for the victims, obviously. The only exception to this is when insanity sets in, which is not uncommon. Now if this is the case with Jack, then he is either insane or he may very well be under the control of the Chinese....

As an interesting side-note I read online that Donald Sutherland does not want to have anything to do with the show. He's happy for his son's success, but he categorically opposes the show's level of violence, the disregard for civil and human rights, and the protrayal of non-Westerners. Interestingly, Keifer isn't making any such statements and has (wisely?) been a-political recently. I guess working for Fox, on a show where anyone can be killed at any time, does make one more careful about being politically outspoken.

All this quibling about how unrealistic things seem on the show is rather silly, if you ask me. The fact is that reality is a lot more mundane and would not generate the public interest and thus the advertising revenue needed to keep this show on the air. Imagine slowly torturing someone for a week? No one would watch that after the novelty of the first hour wore off. If you want something more realistic to this business, check out 24's British counterpart: MI-5.

topspeed

01-30-2007, 11:08 AM

Something is amiss with Graham. How can someone that is powerful enough to pull the strings of President Logan be this much of a weenie? This is not the same Graham that ordered Logan around like a boy scout. We saw it come out a bit at the end of the show, but trailers show that Jack is going to have the last laugh. Graham's overall goal can't be to hide the fact he screwed up. There's definitely something more there...

Also, I'm going to man-up and say that I was wrong about Chloe. I saw her on Leno last night and have to admit, she looked pretty freakin' hot. I can't tell if her mannerisms are how she actually is or if it's just a facade she puts on because she's apparently a comedian :yikes:?!? I dunno, the whole "Little Miss Insecure" thing is a bit bizarre. Of course, it could have just been that she was following Bill Cosby, which is enough to rattle anybody short of Robin Williams (who Bob Hope once remarked to Johnny Carson "How do you expect me to follow that?!?")

nightflier

01-30-2007, 01:09 PM

As much as he would like to be, Graham isn't the puppeteer. Remember that last season he was talking about the people he represented. My guess: the same people who want the pres to suspend civil rights - rich industrialists, the weapons industry, etc. Just like last season, these people allow some nut-job terror group to blow some stuff up, kill a bunch of folks and use the political fallout to set their own agenda.

Isn't any of this starting to become a little formulaic, not just in the show, but in reality, too?

kexodusc

01-31-2007, 06:39 AM

Graham totally reminds me of a Lex Luthor type bad guy - He's evil and diabolical, sniveling and weenie like, but his evil mastermind and sociopathic ways makes him totally dangerous.
He's the wimpy, nerdy, cowardly weakling with a ruthless, terrible mind...that's a perfect bad guy for superman Jack Bauer where I come from! Even more, there's so much to hate about him -start with his freakin' house!!! Throw in his holier-than-thou attitude, his superiority complex, and the fact he's one of those super-elites trying to manipulate and control the White House, country, and even world stage...man you just gotta hate him.

His character was pretty cleverly written though from the small glances we've got so far- he's not just the wicked bad guy, but he's also got that human side to him. Husband, father, brother, son. Gotta believe he loves his wife and kids...though maybe he just considers them prizes. Either way...I hates him already!

kexodusc

01-31-2007, 08:03 AM

Maybe you guys have seen these or posted them in other seasons' threads...if so, I apologize, but these are funny:
http://www.jackbauerfacts.com/
http://www.notrly.com/jackbauer/index.php?topthirty

KaiWinters

01-31-2007, 12:44 PM

All the drama makes for great tv but I do not believe the level of drama, etc. is similar in real life.
I had a sensei who served in WWII as a spy and "dark work" person behind enemy lines in Germany. We were black belt level and he was one of the Federation founders that would come to our dojo, from the mid-west, once or twice a year for advanced training. We would usually sit around after the training session and talk about anything. Much of his training with us was the use of mundane objects to incapacitate, maim or kill. During my first session several of us asked how he knew these things and he said beyond basically thinking about it and trying them out he was trained by the military in many of the objects, others he tried out and used on his own.
He was completely unremarkable to look at and he said this is one of the biggest assets in dark work...a face in the crowd, totally unremarkable and do nothing to attract attention by action, word or dress. He said the best were never noticed and did their work, spying, etc. quietly and efficiently. He also said the "James Bond" types had no place because they were so noticeable and attracted so much attention.
Even at his age he could cause such pain with either his hands or a simple object like a newspaper that we would see stars or it would happen so quickly we would not even realize we were on our asses until much too late hehehe.

I love 24 but realize that it is a great tv show and real life stuff is done much more quietly and with little to no notice by anyone until much too late.

Woochifer

01-31-2007, 02:03 PM

My browser crashed while I was typing up my original response! (Stupid Flash sites!) :mad5:

Anyway, a few random notes ...

Aside from introducing Philip Bauer, Monday's episode was largely moving a few plot points along with not much else.

I noticed that 24 has gotten into a pattern of alternating between the "good" wrongfully accused Muslims and the "bad" Muslims who are actual terrorists. Obviously, last night we found out that the guys at the detention facility were not terrorists. So, that would of course mean that our resident babe for this season, Nadia, will likely turn out to be a CTU mole. It's never a good thing when the CTU staff start sharing their passwords, and I have a feeling that either Nadia or Milo will turn out to be working with the terrorists. (I can see Nadia getting implicated, but Milo actually working with the terrorists since he was gone for an entire season and none of us know what he's been doing in his spare time!)

I still don't know about Philip Bauer. He turn out to be a very Machiavellian character, and Graham's just the stooge (in much the way that Walt Cummings was last season) who's doing Philip's dirty work without even knowing it. I read that this season was supposed to explore Jack's family destiny in more tragic terms, and IMO this is a much more interesting angle than the suitcase nukes or the detention camp storylines.

And like topspeed, I did see Chloe (Mary Lynn Rajskub) on the Tonight Show. Personally, I think her whole mousy geek get up is hilarious. It might be real, but obviously she sees the comedic value in it. I've seen her do sketch comedy before, and she's got any number of other personas that can draw from. 24 is actually her first foray into a dramatic role. As a character though, Chloe seems to touch on a lot of different guy fetishes. She's a techie, IIRC she's also a sports fan, she sports a tattoo, and knows her way around lethal weapons of the XXL variety (who could ever forget Chloe going Rambo on those terrorist baddies during Day Four?)!

Woochifer

02-05-2007, 11:46 PM

Ouch! THAT WAS COLD! :incazzato:

I knew that something was fishy about Philip Bauer and thought the two of them were somehow working together (whether Graem knew or not), but I did not see the dad killing Graem! No doubt about it now, Jack was spawned from rather evil roots! And this might be the tragic destiny that the producers were referring to.

This should be an interesting dynamic for the rest of the season because I don't think Jack has had an adversary that's every bit his equal since Gaines during Day One. And this one's got all sorts of new twists for obvious reasons! Should also be interesting to see how Philip is connected to the terrorists now that we know the nukes sale was no accident. James Cromwell is such a great actor for that role because he could play the father figure and diabolical villian equally well.

And I hate to use the term "jump the shark" yet again, but sadly, this week might have been that moment, at least for me. Why? Because I figured out every major plot twist this week (aside from maybe Philip killing Graem, which I did figure out once Philip told the CTU agent that he wanted to be alone with his son)! Up to this point, 24 has consistently kept me guessing. But, this week, I knew that Philip Bauer was the baddie, I knew that Morris would get kidnapped, and I knew that Palmer would not sign that Executive Order. Either a lot of the clues got telegraphed, or my powers of prognostication have increased exponentially since Day One (HIGHLY doubtful)!

Morris being the "nuclear expert" I saw coming from the outset. That radiation ruse with Morris' brother was pretty obvious, and I thought that whole thing with decrypting the photo was a bit of a stretch. Now, I totally think that Milo is the mole inside CTU.

And it looks like the subplot with President Palmer's getting interesting with Powers Boothe as the Vice President! :cool: Yes, it's obvious how the VP will be portrayed since Boothe almost always plays a villian, but he's so good at playing those roles. I totally look forward to seeing the direction he goes with the VP this season.

Now, the big intrigue will be with former President Logan's return in the middle of the day (or I guess early evening). Are we now going to find that the whole plot during Day Five was orchestrated by Philip Bauer? I can only imagine the confrontation once Jack figures out his dad's true intentions.

Just a reminder -- next week's episode is a TWO-HOUR special!

kexodusc

02-06-2007, 05:06 AM

Groundbeef

02-06-2007, 07:11 AM

I gotta, agree. This week was a little forced. Ok, alota forced. At one point I kept having flashbacks to "The Incredibles". Where the villian has to make a statement, and allows the hero an opportunity to escape.

Why didn't they just off Jack in the office building? They had him, already killed CTU agents.

Whats with trying intentianally suffer drastic interrogation techniques?

And I knew the father was up to no good as well. I thought at first he was going to do a murder suicide. Especially when he asked to talk to his son. Like they would have left them alone....please. Your A-1 suspect, just admitted to the assiasination of a President, and you LEAVE HIM ALONE????

There is a point even in a action drama, where you can no longer suspend disbelief, and it just becomes rediculous.

It would be no more realisitic if Jack were to begin to shoot lightning bolts out of his fingertips and levitate.

I think the Shark has been jumped. Now it is just a simple exercise in

1: Whos the mole?
2: Whos behind the presidential curtain?
3: What impossible situation can Jack overcome?
4: yadayadyadya

I cant wait for Lost. Now thats a series grounded in reality!

Woochifer

02-06-2007, 12:36 PM

Yeah a lot of the plots events this week were very predictable - but I think that's just a result of 24 fans constantly looking for the next plot twist and just paying strict attention. They can't all be surprises or the writing just turns into a sequence of "spots" rather than a story.

You might be right. Can't expect the writers to keep springing unpredictable twists on us every week. This week though was unusual because I correctly guessed every plot twist that was coming up. That's never happened before, and I've watched 24 from the beginning. I guess not every week can come with a brilliant revelation like the identity of Jack's brother.

I knew as soon as Phillip shot the kidnapper that he was going to be the head bad dude. Interesting that they needed to take Jack out to the pit to be executed in order to create the impression Dad was on his side - how did that one work? Graem's lackies were just deemed expendable, in which case Phil and Jack had to overcome extreme odds to kill them? Seems awefully risky to have an unarmed Jack and a 70 year old man vs 2 dudes with guns under orders to execute the hostages. Or the lackies were in on the ruse in which case they knew it was a suicide mission?
Dunno - that just doesn't seem to add up from where I'm standing. Or Phil has waaay to much faith in his Jack's ability to get out of any situation.

I actually rewatched that scene last night, and it still doesn't make much sense to me. I get the impression that the writer charged with occupying a half hour in the day of Jack and Philip has read one too many mob stories. What better location for a mob hit than a ditch with a cement truck on standby?

As for the "mole" - I don't think it's Milo - too obvious - I'm guessing they do away with the mole concept this year just to preserve credibility in the Federal anti-terrorist unit - it can't afford to get infiltrated for the 6th or 7th time in 4 years or so...but if I had to pick, Nadia is 1st and Milo is 2nd.

Milo might be obvious, but I think before the day's done, he'll setup Nadia since she's working with his password and he was the one who offered it up for her in the first place. Milo's always been more of a neutral character, but for all we know he might have been hanging out in terror cells between his tenures at CTU.

I gotta, agree. This week was a little forced. Ok, alota forced. At one point I kept having flashbacks to "The Incredibles". Where the villian has to make a statement, and allows the hero an opportunity to escape.

Why didn't they just off Jack in the office building? They had him, already killed CTU agents.

Whats with trying intentianally suffer drastic interrogation techniques?

Actually, I think this week they put an interesting twist on the torture-of-the-week scenario. Graem did break, but the information that he offered up was not the information that Jack wanted. It would have been a good ruse if Graem had actually lived.

I think Philip Bauer's got a much grander scheme that involves Jack this time around.

There is a point even in a action drama, where you can no longer suspend disbelief, and it just becomes rediculous.

It would be no more realisitic if Jack were to begin to shoot lightning bolts out of his fingertips and levitate.

I think the Shark has been jumped. Now it is just a simple exercise in

1: Whos the mole?
2: Whos behind the presidential curtain?
3: What impossible situation can Jack overcome?
4: yadayadyadya

I cant wait for Lost. Now thats a series grounded in reality!

I think the subplots will continue to tread on familiar territory. Unfortunately, I see no way around it because this is the 6th season. The main thread that will probably keep me interested is the father-son dynamic between Jack and Philip. That's really the only intrigue this season that sets Day Six apart from the others. The best seasons for 24 have had some element that kept the audience hooked. Last season, it was President Logan. Day Two, it was the introduction of a nuclear threat. Day One, it was Jack having to outwit Gaines, even with Gaines holding all the cards. If done right, the father-son storyline alone can carry the day, no matter how much all the other subplots might retread previous stories.

nightflier

02-06-2007, 01:06 PM

recoveryone

02-06-2007, 03:19 PM

whats next Nightflier, using the Star Wars plot line to explain the show.....lol I got a headache from keeping the names in order.

Woochifer

02-06-2007, 06:57 PM

I thought I would just throw this out there: what if they are able to resuscitate Graem? Wouldn't that make for a great good-bad-ugly shoot-out at the CTU-corral?

Seriously, though, this last hour was a dud in my book. The whole story is falling into that same cookie-cutter 24 plot-line drivel as the last 5 seasons. The writers should know that their loyal viewers have been with them long enough to want something more. And I'm sorry, but Cromwell is not doing a good job hiding his intentions. I knew he was rotten from the time of their exchange when Graem pretended that the goons worked for him. Maybe he still thinks he's acting with animated piglets, I don't know, but he's going to have to step it up a notch.

Oh man! NOOOO!!!!! We've already done the bringing-back-from-the-dead thing with Jack. And if the writers are going to bring any character back from the dead, I already put my life points on Mercenary Mandy! :cornut:

You're right though, the last hour was not one of 24's high points. But, I think though that the family dynamic has already put some interesting twists on the plot, since otherwise you're right, everything else this season is treading on familiar territory. 24 is usually at its best when the focus is on the personal peril and tension with the individual characters, and the story with Jack and Philip can go in so many directions at this point.

But, I gotta disagree on James Cromwell. I did not see him telegraphing his intentions, but I did see him just ambiguous enough to swing either way, which is exactly what the Philip Bauer character would show. Having seen Cromwell play good guys, presidents, and villians alike (I never saw Babe), I like that he keeps things low key and understated. I think the Philip Bauer role could have been ruined with more of a caricatured approach. As much as I like Powers Boothe, it's pretty obvious what kind of VP we've got on the show!

Milo being the mole is starting to look too obvious as well. But if he's not, who is? Nadia, since she speaks Arabic, would be too obvious too, especially since all previous moles have been Americans with that true-patriot zeal. Neither Milo nor Nadia fits that profile. Anyhow, it does not seem like the bad guys are getting much Intel out of CTU, so let's hope that there's no mole at CTU this season.

Actually, Morris' status as a guy who can design a nuclear trigger very might be supplied by a CTU mole. I think the coming weeks will start to setup Nadia as a mole, and then the real revelation will come out at some other point. Milo's the obvious one, but it would not surprise me to see Karen Hayes involved as well.

Where I do think there's going to be trouble is in the bunker under the white house. Not only is the pres starting to sound weak and indecisive, but I think that we have a Grima-Wormtongue character in Lennox. Come to think of it, let's run with that ball: King/Palmer, looses Eowin/Hayes who's linked to Buchanon/Eomer who can still save the day, while Grima/Lennox plots to undermine him, taking orders from Daniels/Saruman, who's really being controlled by BauerSr./Sauron, seeking to restore Logan/Melkor. If I remember this from the Silmarillion, the disgraced Melkor was prophesied to make a come-back if Sauron succeeded in covering the land in darkness (Fascism or holocaust, take your pick) using the power of the Ring (a metaphor for the a-bomb).

I'll have to take your word for it, since I haven't read Tolkien since high school!

Given that Tolkien borrowed heavily from history and folklore, it makes you wonder how much subconscious memory affects a writer in creating new stories. And if you like that, here's something that'll really bake your noodle: the writers of the show last year were making a veiled attempt at associating the incompetent and morally depraved Logan with our current pres. Personally I thought he looked and behaved more like Nixon, but now I'm dating myself.

Anyhow, if the future borrows from literature, then I sure hope Jack Bauer (a tormented Frodo?) can save the world again...

You're right, I think Logan was totally channeling Milhaus Nixon. I think that Gregory Itzin in interviews has said that he was patterning his role after Nixon. Your point about the cabinet trying to bring Logan back into the fold would be an interesting plot angle. For now, I'm waiting more to see what connection Logan has with Philip Bauer.

PeruvianSkies

02-06-2007, 10:39 PM

We need to have a TV section on this site.

kexodusc

02-07-2007, 05:06 AM

Karen Hayes or Bill Buchanan....one of them is the mole - then they can give CTU to Chloe next year...Seems to me Bill had some dirt Karen was trying to hide - maybe "the company" got to him?

I thougth this week's show was entertaining, just a bit predictable with a really weird, botched execution scene that kinda didn't make sense...Oh well.

LOL, if we're all looking for a literary masterpiece to discuss and debate, we should go re-read War and Peace. This is Fox and 20-f'n-4...the next minute is more important than the past. I like where Phil Bauer and the Morris angles are going...

KaiWinters

02-07-2007, 12:46 PM

The show is becoming a big bore to me.
Last night just about did me in.
The president barely showed he had and balls at all. Apparently he has no idea what is going on in his own house...sheesh what a moron.
The vice president has that 'I want to start a revolution' look and does not seem to be the type of vice president that fits with the current president.
The weasely guy that "removed" Karen Hayes is just another crap bad guy. Are there no supporters of the president or is there a rule in this show that says every president...add CTU to this...must have all the players playing their own power games and the leader has no clue...he, the President, deserves to get "whacked" and I would chuckle.
Jack trusts his dad now, or seems to. They allow "dad" to have some alone time with his son even though he just admitted to murdering a sitting president, etc. and no one really knows if the "dad" was a part of it or not. I know it is just for the show but it is making the show and the players seem like chumps...sheesh what a bunch of freakin' morons.
Plus the "dad" tosses the empty syringe aside in plain sight.
God this show is really starting to suck.
I think I will copy/paste this reply to the network just for the hell of it.

nightflier

02-07-2007, 04:18 PM

For now, I'm waiting more to see what connection Logan has with Philip Bauer.

Either they are distantly related (kind of like Blair & Bush) or...

They were frat brothers in college and got a little carried away one drunken night as the party wound down and all the girls had left...

Now there's a way to bring the ratings back!

Groundbeef

02-14-2007, 09:34 AM

Monday's episode (2 hour special) was MUCH better, and possibly the best of the season.

Things seemed to flow much better, and the plotline and dialog were much tighter.

About the only thing transparent was the whole Grandpa holding the kid for personal gain line. I saw through that in about 10 seconds.

Also, when Jack was in the car, and Grandpa called the mom, that was a bit stilted. I don't know what kinda phone she was on, but at least on my Sprint Sanyo MM7400, when you are sitting that close you can certainly hear snippits of peoples conversations even without being on speaker.

But, man, Milo can drive a panel truck like nobodys business!

BTW on my new Plasma, and the HD feed OTA from Fox, it sure does seem that Kiefer had an acne problem when he was younger.

KaiWinters

02-14-2007, 09:58 AM

I do not think the 2 hour special was very good at all. In fact it pretty much ends my viewing of the show...the action is great but the "politics" absolutely sucks.
The show, to me, portrays the leadership/government of the US as incompetents, dis-loyal traitors and fools.
The president is apparently surrounded by traitors, a shadow government, that has the power and willingness to use it to bring "another" president down. And the president is seemingly oblivious to this lack of support.
Morris' kidnapper's woman friend has the brains to murder the kidnapper for the money but is so money hungry...for a measly 7 mil ???, that she takes his place never once thinking that these guys will play for keeps and kill her as soon as she is no longer useful? Wow what a moron.
I do not blame Morris for breaking but I do blame him for not being able to somehow sabotage the programming device considering his apparent skill and ability...got to keep the show going I guess.
Apparently no one was the least bit suspicious of Bauer's dad being the last person alone with his son before he died or that he was stable, according to the ctu member with him and allowed "dad" to be alone with him then poof he is dead and daddy dear is making strident bellows of "you are to blame"...sheesh do they think we are freaking morons...even I would be suspicious of this.
While info is sadly lacking CTU allows "dad" and his grandson to leave CTU. Is no one suspicious of dad? Even for safety sake they should have been confined to CTU until the emergency is over. But NOOOOOOO off they go.
Then the bad guy ducks down a convenient rope into the basement and out the sewers into a freaking medical helicopter and off he goes. Where the hell was the CTU chopper? Were there so many choppers in the air that finding the medical copter in the area is impossible? Again we are considered morons by the writers.
I thought Milo could drive but hitting that wall after his previous stunts was very low ball. I do give him credit for the grenade. That was heads up thinking.
Now for the "mom". Her father in law just tells her he killed his son, her husband and if she does not do what he tells her, her son is dead. So she thinks if she cooperates he will survive. Jeez the kid is going to die, pretty obvious I think, but NOOOO she cooperates knowing her husband and dad in law are responsible for the nukes, murders, etc.
And "dad" doing all this to save his "business". Jeez are we that stupid? Is he that stupid to think he is going to somehow survive this and keep his company intact? God what a bunch of moron writers.

OK I am done venting and feel a tiny bit better.
I still feel like the writers consider us morons or are morons themselves. I do not know which.

topspeed

02-14-2007, 10:01 AM

Is it me, or did someone at Fox decide they should really pull out all the stops on torture this season? I'm all for action, but there is a lot of torture this season. Whatever happened to the good 'ol days when Jack would just pretend to kill a suspect' kids while they watched on a monitor? This show is beginning to look like a slasher movie.

Peter McNichol's character (whatever his name is) is tough to figure out. First, I thought he was a slimy bad guy. Then, in this episode it appears he is a pol, but one that is willing to play by the rules. Was I the only one wondering if he had a wire on when he was talking to his aid in the basement?

Finally, I have to agree this show is unfortunately becoming quite predictable. Lost is far better so far.

nightflier

02-14-2007, 02:25 PM

I'm with Topspeed on that one. Seeing the drill going into Morris' shoulder blade was pretty graphic, and certainly this is starting to become pretty sensationalist. It's almost as if they just didn't have enough interesting material to write about, so they decided to do it the Quentin Tarrentino way (w/o a valid plot line). I'm sorry, but this is TV, there ought to be limits. A friend of mine told me he watches this with his 13 year old son and they rave about it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teens watch this show. I'm all for freedom of speech & expression, but this is dropping pretty far into the gutter. If they pull a Dennis Franz type ass scene, I'm done with this one. At least Prison Break manages to keep the story going in a marginally believable way - and I'm pissed they preempted that show for a 2-hour slash-dumb-down-fest.

recoveryone

02-14-2007, 03:50 PM

I knew something was up, I tuned in at 9pm to watch and I had to check the calendar to make sure I didn't miss a week.

Groundbeef

02-14-2007, 04:23 PM

I can see your points on the level of torture this season. It seems that they only have 1 well available to dip into when information is needed.

The unfortunate situation of the show premise "24" is that it only lends itself to quick and dirty solutions to very complex problems. Realizing that the "real time" aspect has been discussed, and disected, is that the writers have backed themselves into the corner so to speak.

For example, when the husband of the presidents wife "infiltrated" the Psuedo-Terrorist group it only took about 35 minutes of "real time". When in fact it would have taken days, probably months or even years to get into a closed organization.

That brings us to interrogation. In this forced time frame, I think that the writers have realized that a hardened terrorist isn't pressed for time. But CTU is. Now I am not going to debate the merits of torture in this forum, but I don't think that it is as effective as portrayed in the show. But in the interest of time, it seems to be the most effective way to get them to talk. In the long run, toture may yield good info, but that info must be painstakingly vetted for accuracy. And solitary confinement with the promise of a nicer view, and warmer showers doesn't make for compelling TV. Unless they change the time aspect to "24" as in MONTHS.

As the death of Jacks brother showed however, in the hands of a skilled torture reciever, you may not get the info that you think you did. (IE Jack thought the death of Palmer was the end of the line on info, but it really was the starting point).

And yes, I would hope that each week isn't going to contain the same level of torture as the last one. It has certainly lost it's "punch" if you will...

Woochifer

02-21-2007, 04:32 PM

LOGAN!!!!!

He's back!

Interesting how Philip managed to slip out and now put Jack into contact with Logan. Now, we'll see how all the pieces fit together. I actually thought that Marilyn was going to pull the trigger and kill Philip. I'm glad that 24 didn't decide to recycle that action pic cliche.

But, the return of Logan promises to bring some much needed intrigue to this season. He's easily one of the best characters on the series, and he's still alive! I have a feeling that Jack's going to have to bring Mrs. Logan along for a conjugal visit to get Logan to talk. :cool:

The last few episodes have been very uneven. The plot thread with the White House has been somewhat predictable (I knew that Lennox was not going to follow through), but now that an assassination attempt against Palmer looks imminent, things are obviously picking up. I thought that was a great scene when Assad warned Palmer about his own people coming after him, but something tells me that it might turn out that Assad will get taken out rather than Palmer.

The angle with the Bauer family has been carrying the season so far, and while it's one of Jack's more interesting adventures, the subplots have been a lot weaker so far this season. The soap opera inside CTU now with Morris the alcoholic has been pretty lame. But, at least now we know that Milo is on the level (I would think that taking a bullet out in the field eliminates him as a mole), which means that we now have to worry about Nadia (and perhaps Karen Hayes, when she arrives back at CTU). When Milo went along for the ride with Marilyn and Jack, I thought it would turn out that he was working with ______________ (fill in terrorist baddie name here), but that didn't happen.

It's been pointed out elsewhere, but did that scene with Morris getting the Black & Decker tattoo in the shoulder blade remind anyone else of Scarface? I'm just waiting for Fayed or any of the other terrorists to start channeling Tony Montana and spewing off one-liners before opening fire or burying their face into a pile of blow.

I read that the producers plan on toning down the torture. Aside from the dean at West Point and several military interrogators saying that 24's depiction of torture is inaccurate, I just think the whole use of torture has gotten very predictable and boring (okay, seeing someone getting plugged with a drill isn't boring, but it's not very interesting or compelling either). The producers admit that they've resorted to writing torture scenes because they couldn't think of any better ways of moving the plot along.

kexodusc

02-22-2007, 04:36 AM

I didn't mind the torture so much - really, I watched seasons 1-5 this fall and I seem to recall just as much brutality and blood - which in all honesty isn't that much and works for the show. It may have been a bit less graphic, but I think that's just because they keep thinking of new methods. I really don't think it was a change in approach.

Wooch, you're right the sub plots have been lackluster, but the family angle is killer this year. I keep waiting for the payoff on Morris. I'm guessing he achieves redemption by sacrificing himself later this year just so we can see Chloe's cute pouty cry scene reminiscent of Edgar dying from the gas tear jerker. Works for me.

I've suspected Nadia as the mole from the start, but mostly because they tried to win sympathy for her in such a blatant way - feels like a setup. Though Karen Hayes and Bill Buchanan are my next pics.

Gotta admit, Phil just leaving Jack out there was a bit of a surprise. And I do find Morris adds some mild comedic relief to the show that's been in short supply since season 1.
So far so good...what's next?

KaiWinters

02-22-2007, 06:18 AM

I must be rather evil minded because I can think of several things that ought to cause extreme pain while not risking severe damage requiring medical aid or lose the "patient" hehehe. So I am not shocked by the torture.
Milo seems a bit stronger than I imagined.
Bauer's sister in law is a complete fool and I wanted him to shoot her in the knee several times. Oh well can't always get what you want.
The drama and especially the dysfunction of both the White House staffers and CTU staffers has me very aggravated. Patriotic fervor is just too much, up to and including assasinating another US President because they think he is not strong enough.
Buchanon watching Chloe and Morris walking out of the meeting to "reboot a secondary server" then goes back to his lap top without saying a word makes him look like a moron to me.
Well at least last night's show was a bit better, to me, than the last couple.
God I wish I could kick this habit. hehehe

nightflier

03-01-2007, 04:53 PM

Well looks like we're in for more torture. This time Jack's using a cigar cutter on the fingers of a guy everyone can dislike, and since this is the typical ticking-bomb scenario proponents of torture always refer to, don't expect him to go soft on this fella.

Of course he has to break into the Russian consulate to get to play slice-boy, so guess who'll be after him at the end of this season? And with Jack doing this against Buchanon's orders, wussy Palmer at half capacity for the rest of the day, and Heil Daniels running the country, nobody's going to lift a finger to help him this time. 'Looks like the next two years in Siberia are going to be interesting considering the Russians have had the whole cold war to become experts at this sordid business. Maybe they'll get him to spill the beans or better yet, maybe they'll sell him back to Fayed's people - I imagine he'd fetch a nice sum. Anyhow, same story as last season...

So that whole promise by the director last week (on Democracy now) that they were going to tone down the torture, looks unlikely. He's a self-proclaimed right-winger, so no surprise there. I guess that this whole idea that they are out of original plot ideas is becoming more apparent every week.

So what else is on on Mondays? I hear Heroes is taking a lot of the viewers away. Sounds a little too X-men to me, but maybe I'll check that out instead.

nightflier

03-06-2007, 12:00 PM

Groundbeef

03-06-2007, 02:46 PM

OK, you can all laugh at the connections to the LOTR, but guess who's the baddie at the Russian consulate? That's right, John Noble, the guy who played Denethor in the Return of the King. Consequently, with that annoying twitch in his cheek, he's the ideal nervous character for the part. Now look at the similarities:

- Denethor was the regent while the king was absent; Markov is the representative of the Russian president, Suvarov.

- Denethor was corrupted by Sauron because he secretly looked into the 3rd remaining Palantir; Markov was secretly communicating with Gredenko.

- Denethor's son Boromir fell, but his second son Faramir was there to pick up the pieces; When Markov's security chief died, the second in command was there to pick up the pieces (OK he killed the chief, but that's splitting hairs).

- Denothor died in a blaze of glory; guess what's going to happen to Markov when CTU storms the consulate?

There other similarities, but you get the point. Think of Grendenko as the Witch King, and Abu Fayed as Gothmog at the forefront of the assault.

Anyhow I think the writers of 24 are either deliberately plagiarizing or they read the books at one time or another and subconsciously impose the plot on their writing. Given that characters from the movies keep popping up every season, I'm going to guess the former.

"Art is either plagiarism or revolution" - Paul Gaugin

Yeah, and Jack used to be a Lumberjack, before he was a seal...so watch out for the mutant trees growing in the fallout zone...

topspeed

03-06-2007, 05:32 PM

OK, you can all laugh at the connections to the LOTR, but guess who's the baddie at the Russian consulate? That's right, John Noble, the guy who played Denethor in the Return of the King. Consequently, with that annoying twitch in his cheek, he's the ideal nervous character for the part. Now look at the similarities:

- Denethor was the regent while the king was absent; Markov is the representative of the Russian president, Suvarov.

- Denethor was corrupted by Sauron because he secretly looked into the 3rd remaining Palantir; Markov was secretly communicating with Gredenko.

- Denethor's son Boromir fell, but his second son Faramir was there to pick up the pieces; When Markov's security chief died, the second in command was there to pick up the pieces (OK he killed the chief, but that's splitting hairs).

- Denethor died in a blaze of glory; guess what's going to happen to Markov when CTU storms the consulate?

There are other similarities, but you get the point. Think of Grendenko as the Witch King, and Abu Fayed as Gothmog at the forefront of the assault.

Anyhow I think the writers of 24 are either deliberately plagiarizing or they read the books at one time or another and subconsciously impose the plot on their writing. Given that characters from the movies keep popping up every season, I'm going to guess the former.

"Art is either plagiarism or revolution" - Paul Gaugin

Ummm...OhhhKayyy...I s'pose now that you mention it, when the lighting is just right, Chloe does look like Golem.

Moving on, is anybody else curious how you lead an all-out assault on the Russian Consolate without starting WW3? Seriously, when Jack ignores the rules of sovereignty (sp?) to clip Markov, how exactly did he plan on getting out of there? Walk through the front door? That who scene was a bit contrived for me.

It looks like Logan's wife is coming back...and it's about time. I always liked her character last season. The previews make it seem like she's off the drugs and has found her balls. Should be good.

Not too many questions raised this episode, but I'm looking forward to watching all hell break loose next week :D!

KaiWinters

03-07-2007, 12:10 PM

I found this episode to be better than some of the more recent.
I have heard some negaitve comments regarding the show is using Russians as the "bad guys" again...well even in todays world they are not really our friends so this should not be a surprise in a tv show. Who were they expecting? The Mexicans or Canadians? sheesh.

There are a lot of new story lines after last nights show and it will be interesting to see how they work themselves out.

Woochifer

03-07-2007, 01:24 PM

Interesting observations from nightflier about the Russian consulate. I never noticed that it was the same guy that played Denethor, since I was having flashbacks to The Hunt for Red October with some of the personnel at the White House and Russian consulate (the guest star list for this week's episode hasn't been posted to IMDB yet, so I can't confirm just yet)!

It seems 24 rebooted the two main plot threads this week (the VP taking charge of the White House, and the Bauer family reunion taking a backseat to the Russian storyline). I hope it adds some much needed coherency to Day Six, because otherwise the narrative is really starting to lose structure. It still keeps me hooked, but the logic and connections between events increasingly leave a lot to be desired.

It's good to see though that the intrigue at the White House is starting to gain some traction. Even though he can be somewhat one-dimensional, Powers Boothe is absolutely awesome at playing the heavy. He's already brought a big-time presence and sense of menace to Vice President Daniels. Should be interesting to see if he winds up butting heads with Jack or President Palmer (we already know that Karen and Tom will probably work against him at some point).

From the previews, it looks like CTU will storm the Russian consulate (?!). That seems very far fetched even by 24, but since they put yet another torture scene into this week's episode, they're obviously searching long and hard for new material. Attacking the Chinese embassy in Day Four made a lot more sense because it was an "unofficial" black ops raid. This seems like a sanctioned operation ... and one that will be led by none other than the new director of field ops ... Ricky Schroeder!

Should also be interesting to see Mrs. Logan back in action next week. Even if the plot points are falling a bit short this season, at the very least I think it's smart to bring back the series' most engaging and interesting characters. No matter how far fetched the situation, reuniting Charles and Martha (AND lone Day One holdover Agent Pierce!) doesn't suck.

Groundbeef

03-07-2007, 03:34 PM

From the previews, it looks like CTU will storm the Russian consulate (?!). That seems very far fetched even by 24, but since they put yet another torture scene into this week's episode, they're obviously searching long and hard for new material. Attacking the Chinese embassy in Day Four made a lot more sense because it was an "unofficial" black ops raid. This seems like a sanctioned operation ... and one that will be led by none other than the new director of field ops ... Ricky Schroeder!

1st its Rick Schroeder, not "Ricky". Have you seen any of his recent works? NYPD Blue, and the TNT movie "The Lost Brigade"? He has earned his acting stripes enough to go by Rick. This ain't the same kid from Silver Spoons.

2nd, isn't invading a embassy basically declaring war? I mean under what jurisdiction can CTU hope to claim by storming soverin territory to "rescue" someone that was caught trespassing?

nightflier

03-07-2007, 03:42 PM

From the previews, it looks like CTU will storm the Russian consulate (?!). That seems very far fetched even by 24, but since they put yet another torture scene into this week's episode, they're obviously searching long and hard for new material. Attacking the Chinese embassy in Day Four made a lot more sense because it was an "unofficial" black ops raid. This seems like a sanctioned operation ... and one that will be led by none other than the new director of field ops ... Ricky Schroeder!

Well if Pres. Suvarov approves the storming of the consulate, then it would be a lot more believable. Remeber, this is a consulate, not an embassy, so the security staff is much smaller.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone else think that Prison Break was way better than 24, this week?

topspeed

03-13-2007, 08:39 AM

So THAT's how you storm a Russian consulate without declaring war! Too bad they aired out Markov, his character would have been fun to keep around for awhile. Quick question, why is Jack hurt on his right side? I don't remember him getting shot or anything, only the door blowing up in his face. Did I miss something?

Mrs. Logan's return was interesting. She's shacking up with Aaron, a favorite of mine since Season 1, and has definitely left the reservation. The knife scene was a bit obvious as soon as she picked up the plate, but it was still a nice twist I 'spose. As much as I dislike Pres. Logan, it's clear his wife is bananas.

As for next week, the previews allude to another leak at CTU, to which I'm thinking "You've got to be f***ing kidding me?!?" If this proves to be true, I want to see the head of security taken out in front of firing squad. I mean, COME ON!!!

kexodusc

03-13-2007, 11:21 AM

nightflier

03-13-2007, 12:03 PM

Well it's not clear that Markov is dead. He was shot twice in the gut, far right & left - painful but not necessarily deadly. Although considering he's no longer useful to the plot-line since Jack is alive, I think he's a gonner.

Interesting how Margaret Logan regained her composure after she stabbed her hubby. The time-line is a little funky, though since she just got Mrs. Suvarov on the phone when Silver Spoons was seconds away from storming the embassy. But I suppose it adds to the suspense, that way. Anyhow, maybe this is what she needed to get her marbles back. Now she can marry Pierce and live in her perfect little white house in paradise and hopefully never reappear on the show. Sorry, I know some of y'all like her, but she's a little too nutty to be involved in the political process, if you ask me.

It's not clear yet that the leak at CTU is from a person. It could be an electronic device that was planted, maybe by Silver Spoons? Wouldn't that be a nice plot twist? Or better yet, by Jack's father - he certainly had time to wander around while he was there as a good-guy. Anyhow, he still has to resurface sometime soon and what better time than now, when they are about to find where Fayed and the Ruskies are playing boyscout? Either he'll redeem himself by stopping the drones when CTU fails, or he'll try to stop CTU from reaching the terrorists. Anyhow, this calls for a military air-strike, rather than a CTU assault, even more than in the previous season. Of course, that would not help VP Daniels' plans, so he may not authorize it....

Meanwhile, back at the Halls of Justice... it's about time Mrs. Hayes (Mrs. Buchanan?) returned. She'll be a fun addition to the staff of the VP - I can already see her get catty with his chief of staff, the chick from Invasion. Daniels, by the way, is coming off weaker than earlier, or at least less intelligent. He's liberally lying in front of others, and acting rather rashly - even hesitating when he has to authorize the storming of the consulate, something that is out of character for his role (unless he didn't want them to capture Markov?). Also, If pres. Palmer miraculously returns, there will be hell to pay, and you can be pretty sure that Grima Lennox is going to slither right back and point the finger at Daniels. I almost think that Daniels is afraid of the shadow-government folks that tried to kill Palmer.

On a broader scale, the show is getting closer and closer to depicting a worse-case scenario in the real world. Imagine if Bush were to fall from grace (cancer, impeached, says something stupid, falls off the wagon, pick your poison), then we would be led by a VP who is not unlike Daniels. He would probably institute martial law, suspend civil liberties, and escalate war in the middle east. Frankly I'm surprised the director, who's been very supportive of the current government's policies (he said so publicly), would present such a scenario at a time like this. It's both prophetic and chilling.

Now where is my list of quotes from 1984? Oh yeah, here we go:

"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac."

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception"

"One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes a revolution in order to establish a dictatorship"

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind"

"War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it"

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength"

And of course:

Woochifer

03-13-2007, 06:26 PM

Whoa! Logan, we hardly knew ye!

What a bummer that the Logan family reunion was so short-lived. Martha Logan was one of my favorite characters last season -- always teetering on the edge, but Jean Smart did a great job at making the character believable. Last night though really pushed things quite a bit to say the least!

Seeing Charles, Martha, and Aaron together just highlighted how compelling a subplot the White House was last season. Too bad, we only got this brief snippet.

But, at least now we have an explanation of how CTU can storm the Russian consulate without starting WWIII. Just strange that Suborov would so quickly authorize U.S. forces to take out a whole flank of his own diplomatic staff.

And WTF is up with RICKY Schroder! (That was how the credits spelled him out, so I guess it's now okay to use that moniker again!) My gawd. I know that the writers like to bring new heavies into CTU every year, whether it's some new pencil pusher from "Division" or a higher up from Homeland Security, but this new director of field ops just seems a bit over the top. Geez, it's like hasn't Morris gone through enough today? I mean, if I was managing someone who just got pummeled by a power drill, I might be willing to cut them some slack!

But, he did lead a successful raid on the consulate. Now, we'll see how long it takes before he starts rubbing Jack the wrong way!

As far as the VP goes, that's Powers Boothe for 'ya! He's just so good at playing the megalomaniac. I don't care if he always seems like he's two throwaway lines away from summoning his minions into the Oval Office and forcing them to drink the Kool-Aid! (After all, Boothe did play People's Temple cult leader Jim Jones in Guyana Tragedy.) He's got such a presence whenever he's in a scene.

Looks like Karen Hayes will be back next week, and I'm sure Lennox will be making nice with her in no time.

And I do share the concerns that topspeed and kex have about next week's episode -- NOT ANOTHER CTU MOLE! I really hope that the writers don't take the easy way out yet again (this week, Martha getting loose on Charles was telegraphed all the way), and pin it all on Nadia. I'm sure she'll be implicated, but I hope that the subplot has more complexity and nuance to it than that.

On a broader scale, the show is getting closer and closer to depicting a worse-case scenario in the real world. Imagine if Bush were to fall from grace (cancer, impeached, says something stupid, falls off the wagon, pick your poison), then we would be led by a VP who is not unlike Daniels. He would probably institute martial law, suspend civil liberties, and escalate war in the middle east. Frankly I'm surprised the director, who's been very supportive of the current government's policies (he said so publicly), would present such a scenario at a time like this. It's both prophetic and chilling.

The scenario in 24 is just a little bit more extreme because you got Palmer and Daniels clearly on the outs, and for all we know, this whole subplot was a coup d'etat orchestrated by the VP. I think that W. and Cheney are on slightly better terms!

As far as the politics of the writers/producers/directors go, a lot has been written on Producer Joel Surnow and Director Jon Cassar's overtly conservative views. But, at the same time you got Executive Producers Howard Gordon (who doubles as the lead writer) and Brian Grazer who are both Democrats, while Kiefer Sutherland's politics lean left as well (not surprising since his grandfather was Canadian Socialist leader Tommy Douglas, who's considered the father of their national health care program). I think what you see on screen reflects a lot of creative tension behind the scenes, and it has to walk a very thin line because this season more so than past seasons, they are definitely alluding more overtly to current events.

KaiWinters

03-14-2007, 03:45 AM

I really enjoyed this episode. It was funny watching the two Russians start to make out a bit in the basement only to have Jack spoil the fun lol. It was great watching Martha "lose it" and stab hubby. Watching her up and down behavior...bipolar ?...even how she treated Aaron in some small things I noticed...made me cringe at the thought of being close to her. If I were Aaron I do not think I could sleep at night...especially after skewering Logan's shoulder lol.
I enjoy seeing Morris get "tweaked" here and there. He is a drama queen and makes for fun viewing. I really am getting tired of Chloe's "look" when she does not like something. I do not know how to describe the look but if she gave it to me and I were her supervisor she would have my boot up her ass in a heart beat. She is getting a bit too self important in my opinion.

Groundbeef

03-20-2007, 05:32 AM

Ok, last week was pretty good. Then last night.

Its like a bad soap opera now. "Can we wake the prez out of coma to stop the nuke?" "The Muslim IS the mole...or is she?" "Why didn't anyone tell Jack that Audrey died in China?"

And what about the presidential advisors? Ok Mr VP, whatever you say....lets just drop a nuke....no arguement here. AHHHHHHHHHHHH it was SO bad it made my head hurt.

I don't know what happened to 24, but I want it back. Days of Our Lives has invaded the set!!!

Next week if Jack shows up wearing a house dress, I'm done.

kexodusc

03-20-2007, 05:53 AM

LOL...Okay, it says here that Audrey isn't dead, and after Jack shacks up with his new babe, Audrey will appear alive, and Jack will run off to save her.

I enjoyed last night's show - the war room dialogue is a bit over the top, and I can't believe anyone would be so quick to Nuke another country - there's other ways to retaliate - but whatever. What happened to Logan, and where is Jack's dad?

topspeed

03-20-2007, 08:50 AM

I didn't understand why Jack was so upset no one told him that Audrey was dead. Seriously, there are more important things going on during this day. :rolleyes:

I was underwhelmed by last night's episode as well. How does an acting VP unilaterally decide to drop a nuke on another country?!? Doesn't Congress need to approve something like that? The NSA says it's a bad idea but the Joint Chiefs say nothing? That was stupid.

recoveryone

03-20-2007, 10:10 AM

Ditto to Topspeed, But in a case of National crisis the President has the power to order a strike without declearing war on another country, which takes an act of Congress. The Joint Chiefs do have input, but they have to follow the orders of the President without question. But it is obivious that the V.P. is in on the attacks. And to Kex...didn't Logan die lastweek from the stabbing from the ex-wife. It did show him flatlining.

nightflier

03-20-2007, 01:18 PM

OK, here's a thought, what if the Chinese are using Audrey (or the hope that she is still alive) as a way to get Jack to do their bidding. Not to harp on the Chinese topic constantly, but last night's episode was the first in a while where they were mentioned repeatedly, including by Karen Hayes when she asked the VP what they would think of a nuclear strike in the Middle East. If we also consider that Jack was probably caught by the Chinese with the help of his brother and possibly his father, I have a feeling that Jack's father and the Chinese connection is going to creep back into the plot line soon.

I suppose the real question is whether the Chinese had an interest in letting Jack loose in the first place. Maybe Chinese intelligence knew of Fayed and the Ruskies and they needed Jack to put out this fire. If anything, they would have an interest in preventing the American neo-cons / puppet masters from starting WWIII and threaten the supply of oil they are so dependent on. Maybe is was the neo-cons who killed Audrey in China because they didn't want her to get Jack out. When she was killed, the Chinese realized this and decided to let Jack loose.

And on whether it's realistic for the VP to be so gung-ho on nuking, has anyone ever thought about what Cheney would be capable of, if he ever became pres? He's got to be the creepiest, most immoral, money-driven hand-wringer who's ever been VP. Daniels is like a younger version of Cheney, he even has that Quasimodo paunch and brooding, plotting face only money could love. And if I disappear after posting this, you can take that as proof of this fact.

Woochifer

03-20-2007, 02:26 PM

Actually, I thought last night's episode sprung the various subplots back to life. Much needed given that the Bauer family subplot that has thus far carried much of Day Six is on hold.

I've been waiting for some intrigue at CTU, and though Nadia eventually getting implicated had been telegraphed from the first hour, it sets up a lot of angles by which the machinations at CTU can now link to whatever conspiracy is going through the White House.

Although I'll agree that the storyline with the warmongering VP is a bit over-the-top, his order for a unilateral nuke strike I don't think is that unrealistic given that 24 this season is taking place in an alternate reality where terrorist strikes on U.S. soil are practically a daily occurrence and crackdowns against mostly innocent American Muslims have already begun. In that kind of atmosphere where fear prevails, I can easily see a zealous Executive branch grabbing a lot of unilateral authority, all under the guise of national security.

While the dialog, as it has been all season long with the White House subplot, was wooden and contrived, I just think that with that subplot now revolving around the VP is a lot more interesting than with Wayne Palmer. Palmer just seems weak as a President and not nearly as complex and unpredictable, not to mention wonderfully diabolical, as Logan was. VP Daniels is every bit as one dimensional as Powers Boothe's acting (his portrayal of VP Daniels is practically a carbon copy of Jim Jones) , but he commands attention and keeps me planted in my seat when the White House story is on. Frankly, I don't want Palmer to wake up. The VP is so wonderfully perverted by power, I just want to see what he tries next.

With the other subplots kicking up a notch, Jack Bauer's storyline unfortunately took a step down in last night's episode. That whole deal with Audrey was really unconvincing. I mean, Jack slamming Chloe's phone down while she was dealing with an airborne nuke and then ordering her to retrieve a personnel file?! :confused: I just don't see Jack putting his personal agenda ahead of everything else while CTU is trying to locate a nuclear drone.

Clearly, the conditions surrounding Audrey's "death" set up a lot of interesting angles for later in the day or for Day Seven. I just think the writers could have come up with a better way of weaving it into the plot thread.

The other stuff at CTU will hopefully get better. This season has been woefully short of vintage Chloe moments, but last night's breathalyzer test with Morris was pretty good. Otherwise, that new director of field ops is just way over the top. At least VP Daniels' megalomania means something because he's got an itchy finger on the panic button. The field ops guy just seems way too cartoonish even by 24 standards. At some point, I think he will emerge as the CTU mole and he'll have to deal with Jack. Unfortunately, if that happens it will just further illustrate how predictable 24 has been this season.

KaiWinters

03-20-2007, 07:41 PM

I enjoyed the scene where Chloe kisses Morris then tells him it is an "alcohol check", when he asks why the kiss, per Milo...lol funny stuff. Even the little nods between Morris and Milo made me chuckle.
The Russians may be in a bit of a pickle. After all one of their top guys in their embassy is/was working with the bad guy who is working with Fayed (sp?) and Jack and the US just cleaned up the mess...also the same guys with the gas bombs. I suppose in some sort of way the Russians owe us one and while they will certainly bluster if a nuke is dropped they will not do anything else.
I have no idea what is going on with the Chinese.
All in all it was a decent episode.

recoveryone

03-22-2007, 07:45 AM

NIghtflier, you kill me...lol but you have to give the writers credit. From watching the real news about how our current administration is handling things you would think the people from 24 are writing their sound bits. Cheney is straight out of Compton mode and I think its rubbing off on Bush. Bush has come from a bewilder soul to a hard core OG latley. I just waiting for him to say something along the lines of "If you don't like what I said then we can take it out back and settle it." lol the funny thing is that Bush has a higher approveful rating with Black's now than when he first was elected. If he refer's to Rice as my Boo or my Ride a Die chick they may have to change the laws about servering more than two terms........................lol Throw up the big "W" sign shoutout WHITEHOOOUSE!

zenchris

03-23-2007, 07:10 AM

Hi Nightflier,
I can't e-mail you and sorry about disturbing you guys talk. I was recently bought a pre-owned PS Audio 200 Delta and I love its performance very much. As I know you are also a PS Audio owner, I would like to have all the info related to my 200 Delta but however I found nothing on web. If you don't mind please knidly help to made copy of your owner manual if you have. My e-mail is lpl_1@yahoo.com.hk. Many many Thx!

Groundbeef

03-27-2007, 05:27 AM

Well, 1 more episode down, a few more to go. At this rate, I really don't even care what happens. There comes a point where suspended belief becomes dis-belief, and last night was the crossing point.

Of course Nadia was not the mole. Of course the guy tried to set up Rick Schroder.

Now Milo has professed his 'Love' for Nadia, during a pending nuclear strike.

And wasn't it nice to see Jack Bauer kid gloving the handicapped kid. Piss poor Rain-Man impression BTW.

And the Coup-De Gras was the President rising out of a coma to stop the VP from launching the Nukes. As my wife put it, 'Boy he looks pretty good for having coded 10 minutes prior!'. No S*hit he did. Apparently didn't even suffer after affects from his
1. Head injury.
2. Massive doses of drugs to induce medical coma.
3. Body Trauma from the assiasination attempt explosion.

This has now become an exercise in Shark Jumping. What far fetched BS plot line can they attempt to exploit next?

recoveryone

03-27-2007, 11:22 AM

V.P. Daniels has lost all of his marbles, I can't wait to see what is his connection in all this. He is just too gun ho on starting a war. He is DIck Cheney on roids....lol

topspeed

03-27-2007, 03:56 PM

Groundbeef beat me to it:

The show has officially jumped the shark.

For what reason do we need to see or even care about Nadia and Milo's budding relationship. How does that possibly forward the plot? Are they trying to bring back memories of those two CTU agents from Day 1-4 that ended up getting married? That was idiotic.

Good call on the lame Rain Man impression as well. That is exactly what I thought. Not every person suffering from autism is a math/tech wiz. Talk about stereotyping! Another moment of useless drivel.

The final insult came when Palmer called off the strike but the VP declares he's calling the Atty, General. Riiiiiiiight. There's war mongering and then there's abject lunacy.

I could care less about this show now. :(

Thank God for LOST!

kexodusc

03-27-2007, 04:08 PM

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed with last night's continuation of the "spot" hitting routine the writers have been empling....there's too many loose threads that I care about more than Milo and the Nadia, and the Wayne palmer/evil VP thing is just tooooooooo predictable.
The Rainman thing, well, I heard 30 million Fox viewers say "Rainman" all at once as soon as the camera panned to him....
That said, there were at least 4 really terrible episodes in every season that I hated, so I remain optimistic. I think we're in for a good finish...let's just pretend this hour didn't happen...okay, so last hour recap:
uhh....Jack was caught in traffic for an hour and 3 minutes...bleep-bloop, bleep-bloop, bleep-bloop, bleep-bloop, bleep-bloop, bleep-bloop---thump!!!,

nightflier

03-28-2007, 08:37 AM

Well there's still the subplot with Jack's father to wrap up. I wonder when he'll shows up again.

And of course my way-out-there theory that the Chinese are still involved with that whole Audrey thing.... Or maybe that's the springboard for next season?

kexodusc

03-28-2007, 09:50 AM

Oh yeah, Audrey - she's still alive. Being held hostage by Jack's Chinese father and Nina Meyers evil-er twin.

nightflier

03-29-2007, 01:11 PM

Groundbeef

03-29-2007, 03:08 PM

Well if Audrey's still alive that will have to be for next season, 'cause if they try to wrap something like that up in four hours, then they'd definitely be jumping the shark (and Jack will definitely not be able to use the bathroom this 24 hour period, LOL).

"Jumping the shark." Used it many time, but were does that come from anyhow?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it goes back to the waning days of "Happy Days".

To pump up ratings, 'The Fonz' was scheduled to do a death defying stunt on his motercycle. Can you guess what it was? JUMPING A SHARK. Now this was before my time, but it may have caused ratings to go up before the stunt, but after that viewers were left with a "what next" feeling, as there was nothing left in the series to do.

Since then, when a show has gotten past its prime, writers put in all sorts of BS plotlines in an attempt to drum up the drama. Thus called "Jumping the Shark".
Unfortunatly, if they would just focus on solid plotlines, instead of tricks it would keep intersest better.

topspeed

03-29-2007, 04:31 PM

Indeed it was Happy Days. The Fonz jumped a shark on waterskiis...wearing a leather jacket over his life preserver no less:rolleyes:...and a legend was created. At that moment in television history, one of the great sitcoms of all time suddenly became completely irrelevant.

Woochifer

03-29-2007, 04:38 PM

As a loyal 24 viewer from midnight Day One, this "Rain Man" episode has officially pushed the series over the shark! :incazzato:

Yes, I know that Day Two had the infamous mountain lion chase with Kim, and Day One had that whole Terri-gots-amnesia bit, but those seasons also had much stronger and tighter narratives surrounding those momentary lapses. Day Six has had a much shakier storyline, so a lame subplot like this one with Brady the Rain Man is a lot more difficult to recover from.

It's actually a plot device that the writers have not used yet, but it just made for one big groan. Unfortunately, even if they had come up with a more creative way of leading CTU to Gredenko, that probably would have only delayed the shark jumping by another week ... because I CAN'T BELIEVE that they're about to recycle the 25th Amendment storyline from Day Two (when President David Palmer's cabinet removed him from office)! We don't know yet if Wayne Palmer's going to be declared unfit to serve as President, but the whole internal power struggle and effort to remove the President is a case of been there done that. I will say though that VP Daniels is a lot more menacing than David Palmer's VP.

But, if they're going to recycle a plot thread, I would hope that they at least make good use of it. So far this season, a lot of good setups have been squandered -- Jack's Chinese internment, the whole Bauer family subplot, Chloe and Morris back in action, the Charles/Martha/Aaron reunion, the Nadia/Mandy L Word reprise ... alright, just wishful thinking on my part! :ihih:

The whole Nadia/Milo/Doyle trifecta was another promising plot thread that dropped with a thud this week.

And who knows what's going on with Fayed. Is he now just circling the freeways of LA waiting for the writers to give him some better face time?

Yes, there are still 10 hours to go, but the series has got a lot of catching up to do if they want to salvage this season. As it stands, Day Six is already on target to rival Day Three as the worst season so far.

"Jumping the shark." Used it many time, but were does that come from anyhow?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/original/jumptheshark-42457.jpg

Groundbeef

04-03-2007, 05:28 AM

Well, another hour of my life I will never get back.

The first 15 min or so, I thought...well maybe they can get back on track.

Seems like Ricky Schroder has some personal issues, but who doesn't.

Then we get to the whole VP vs THE PRES. My wife and I were cracking up, it was almost like an episode of survior. We were both expecting Jeff Probst (Host of Survivor) to come out and annouce who was just kicked off the island. Not to mention, that the Pres was able to walk, talk, and act semi functional after all that happened to him in the last 4 hours.

Then the Russian dude, and the Arab. Pretty cool, radioactive isotope tracking and all. Except for the fact that they CUT OFF HIS ARM. I saw that a mile away. Wife suggested next time they inject his "junk" so he is less inclined to lose the "member".

And then back to the bunker. What is the deal with the pres all of the sudden calling a nuke strike just to show the VP how big a Johnson he has? Like he has to impress him or something.

I predict that it will be blamed on the 'adreniline shots' he is getting. Never mind they only last about 15-30 minutes before being metabolized.

This show is outta gas. At this point I hope they nuke CTU and the show is over 5 hours early.

kexodusc

04-03-2007, 05:52 AM

Nah, the Prez is sending the nukes into those countries as a bluff - he'll learn what info he can from their governments under threat of nuke strike, then detonate or partriot the warheads before they hit their target, preventing the nuclear reaction from occuring.
Totally predictable.

Yeah, this week's was way better than last week's...too bad it still wasn't very good.

I'm really not that impressed with this season. It started when they killed Jack's brother so early, after all the build up and sneak peaks we got of him last year. What a freakin' waste.

It's been a series of spot-hitting writing (or shark jumping as you guys call it) since. Twists for the sake of twists...But there's no continuity, no drama, interesting and sustainable sub-plots. GRRRRR.

I keep waiting for the pay-off...something HUGE has got to happen...but now I'm worried there'll be a 3rd evil Palmer brother or Jack's mom will be a terrorist or something stupid.

nightflier

04-03-2007, 03:44 PM

Palmer out-dicking Reynolds? (Chenney pun intended) Yeah, that's realistic. Do you suppose the producers are reading this thread and figured, OK let's try and grow Palmer some balls before his publicist sues us for ruining his career. He's still a wuss and my opinion of him hasn't changed much since the beginning of the day. There isn't much that can resuscitate this story anymore.

Where is Jack's father? Where are the Chinese? Where are the shadow government-suits? I wanna see Lennox get wacked on the forehead again! I wana see some real plot-twists, not borrowed re-hash from last season that we can figure out hours before. And I really don't care to see what Jack is going to do to Fayed - it's going to be tasteless ratings-begging gore and we know Fayed's not going to say a word. We already know that his organization has a new leader and Fayed is now expendable.

And now there's going to be a 24 movie? That's going to be about as exciting as the X-Files movie. Didn't they get the clue with that dud of a movie, Sentinel? Unless they detonate a bio-bomb that kills off half the world, institute world-martial law, and mass-torture little kids, I just don't see how the movie will up the ante over the TV show. With movies like Hostel, Grindhouse, and Texas Chainsaw..., they'll have to come up with something pretty extreme to get anyone to to buy a $10-15 ticket!

Groundbeef

04-10-2007, 08:18 AM

Well, I have to say last night might have been the best episode of the season so far.

With the exception of Milo, the episode moved right along, and was quite entertaining. Milo needs to be taken out back and shot. And then his family billed for the shell. What a total weenie.

There was even a "WOW" moment, when Fayied was "rescued" and it was CTU the whole time. I thought oh man, this is a total copout, and just another foolish "twist" until it became clear that it wasn't a terrorist rescue.

And the whole nuke thing ended with a bit of a suprise, because there is about 7 hours to go in the season. I guess we will see how the Chinese do fit into the story.

topspeed

04-10-2007, 08:53 AM

Groundbeef

04-10-2007, 09:41 AM

I disagree. Last night may have been my last night of watching 24.

First, someone tell me how Fayed, injured no less, mows down 6 other people armed with machine guns in close quarters? Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Now, the previews appear to have Jack trying to commit the US military just to save his girlfriend...the same girlfriend that abandoned him in Day 5.

The one good moment was when Jack told Fayed, "NOW we're going to have fun." regarding the pharmaceutical pack. Otherwise, everything else ranked as a definite, "Meh."

I think that it was only 3 people. The driver, the guy that gave him the loaded gun, and another passenger. I suspended disbelief for that portion of the show.

I am not so concerned about Audrey being rescued, as to see how the Chinese have a dog in the fight.

And did she abadon him? I thought that she gave him a moment alone, per his request, and then the Chinese swooped in and took him. It appeared that she went to China to find him (according to Chole).

Woochifer

04-10-2007, 10:55 AM

Actually, I thought this week things started going at a good pace again. The ruses with President Palmer and Fayed were pretty good twists. Things were rolling along and I thought they finally had the subplots going in interesting directions (except for the CTU subplots, which remain disappointingly banal/soap operaish). This was probably the best episode since the Day Six season premiere ... well at least for the first 55 minutes ...

... until they decided to tie together the nuclear terrorist plot into a neat bow (both Fayed and Gradenko get off'd within an hour of each other) and hit RESET! :incazzato:

So the Chinese are back, they got Audrey, and they want the nukes. Generally, I think 24 is at its best when the peril and the stakes are very personal for Jack, and this obviously fits the bill. But, the setup for this totally new plot direction was horrible. I mean, just seconds after Fayed goes down for the count, Jack just happens to get a phone call from Audrey and the Chinese know that he's got a couple of spare suitcase nukes that they want?! :confused:

This is easily the most blatant midseason restart since Day One when the Drazen subplot got awkwardly shoved into storyline after Jack rescued Teri and Kim, and killed Gaines, all in one tidy wrapup episode. But, in that case, the writers had to insert that escape hatch so that just in case the series got did not get picked up by Fox after the initial 13-episode order (which nearly happened because the ratings that season were marginal), they wouldn't leave viewers with an unresolved cliffhanger. This time, I just get the sense that the writers couldn't get any more mileage out of a nuclear threat, so they quickly shifted to Plan B (convenient that Kim Raver's series on ABC got canceled).

I hope that this new subplot with Audrey finds its legs in a hurry, because that Drazen storyline in Day One took hours before it finally got going. Day Six only has 8 hours left, so we'll see how it all goes. I would have to guess that Philip Bauer's somehow involved and Jack will wind up choosing between family, Audrey, and country. Compelling plot elements, but the setup is lacking at best.

And hopefully 24 cans the recycling for this season. I mean, just last week alone featured a reprise of Day Three's escape by axe amputation (when Jack chopped Chase's hand off), and Day Two's 25th Amendment crisis. If the writers are going to go crazy on the plot retreads, at least try something good like Chloe channeling Rambo! (Talk about MIA ... where has Chloe been this season?)

nightflier

04-10-2007, 05:01 PM

So the Chinese are back, they got Audrey, and they want the nukes. Generally, I think 24 is at its best when the peril and the stakes are very personal for Jack, and this obviously fits the bill. But, the setup for this totally new plot direction was horrible. I mean, just seconds after Fayed goes down for the count, Jack just happens to get a phone call from Audrey and the Chinese know that he's got a couple of spare suitcase nukes that they want?!

Remember that it was insinuated earlier that Graham (& by extension his father) was the one who gave Jack up to the Chinese. So Jack's father is involved in that whole scenario. Remember that he was also tracking Gredenko/Fayed earlier in the day so he may have had a man on the inside or at the very least been tracking them electronically? Wasn't it one of his companies that released the nukes in the first place? Maybe they have a tracking mechanism? Obviously he has the resources to pull something like that off. So as soon as Jack went rambo on Fayed's crew, his father may have known that the suitcase nukes would be recovered by CTU. If so, he could have placed a call to the Chinese and given a timely update?

Now, since I wasn't too far off with my prediction about the Chinese and Audrey so far, what if the Chinese are the real puppet masters? Maybe they wanted Daniels to nuke the middle east, knowing that would weaken the US internationally. I also don't think they care about the nukes in particular (they can make their own, probably better) - no, they're concerned about something else... maybe there is something in those suitcases that might be incriminating for them?

I'm going to stick to my original prediction that they let Jack go for a reason. Obviously they had Audrey in custody when they let him go, so they were undoubtedly holding that card back for something. Now the writers have 7 hours to let us know what's what. Next week should be revealing....

TopSpeed, I know you're not happy with this season, but I seriously doubt you'll be watching Thank God You're Here instead of 24 next Monday....

Groundbeef

04-17-2007, 11:15 AM

Last night the show blew chunks. I thought the US didn't negotiate with hostage takers. I guess that theory goes out the window when they need technology that could start WW3 between superpowers. Especially when its the love interest of Jack Bauer.

Rick Schroder should have shot him in the head, and ended this miserable season for good.

I think this show has offically flushed itself down the crapper.

kexodusc

04-17-2007, 11:32 AM

This show was at it's best when the threats were at least somewhat believable. Single man assassinations, small bombs, some dirty chemicals. Those were far fetched, but believable. Now it's turning into a sick hybrid story of the United Nations and Die Hard, but disregarding everything any intelligent human being who's ever read a newspaper or watched CNN has been told to believe.

Next season, Jack is going to expose a secret military compound that terrorists have hijacked - when he infiltrates the base, he'll discover it's Hangar 18, harboring alien technology and a new interstellar war will be threatened. Then we'll find out Buchanan new about it all along.

Ugh...somehow I think that story will be more interesting than this one...

How the heck did the Chinese get Jack's phone number in such short time?

nightflier

04-17-2007, 01:36 PM

How the heck did the Chinese get Jack's phone number in such short time?

Not only did an injured Jack with a single handgun, take out 6 or 7 of Fayed's men, armed with automatic riffles, all without getting shot, but to top it off he finished it off by duking it out with Fayed himself and finally hanging him with a chain that just happened to hang there (just like in every other darkly lit warehouse, crawling with baddies that we see in every movie). As soon as I saw that chain, I knew it was going to come into play. Duh!

And not only did they know exactly when to call, but how did they know he had killed Fayed and finished his mission? How did they know he had both nukes? Too many questions w/o another mole at CTU, if you ask me. Maybe Silver Spoons is on their payroll?

This is not only jumping the shark, but throwing in a spread-eagle summer Sault, mooning the viewers and lighting a fart on fire, all in mid-air, and on live TV! Yes, this was all too formula, and you know with formula, what comes out, runs more, smells fouler, and requires more wipies to mop up.

Even Daniels writing his letter, and rushing it to the pres. was a sure indication that the pres was going to drop back into his coma. And of course, the first thing Daniels does is attempt to stop Jack. Saw that one coming a mile away. Let's hope that Daniels is truly the diabolical hand-wringing Cheney-like megalomaniac he comes off as. They need that to pump some life back into this season. And he's not going to fall for another taped screw-up, that's for sure (I wouldn't want to be Lennox at this point...).

What would really be a nice twist is if he really was part of that fascist conspiracy and they are the ones who are after Jack in the next season (or the movie). Forget about international terrorism, the next season will see the dawn of a new fascist era for America and Jack Bauer the only man who can save us from this new peril. You heard it here, first, folks!

Woochifer

04-24-2007, 06:24 PM

I thought that last week, they had some potentially interesting angles to explore, but they too seem to have gotten squandered. Had a LOT of filler this week (the Bill-Karen, Daniels-Assistant, and Chloe-Morris threads were nonstarters), though seeing Nadia taking charge did pique my interest! :ihih:

Still waiting to see if Audrey goes Manchurian Candidate on Jack before season's end. But, given her zombie-like state, seems like the writers won't explore that angle. I've given up on Chloe getting anything interesting to do this season, unless that "spy" story that the previews hinted at for next week pulls her into the action for a change.

All in all, 24 is limping to the finish. Still trying to decide if this season ranks below Day Three. :incazzato:

nightflier

04-25-2007, 10:44 AM

I've given up on Chloe getting anything interesting to do this season, unless that "spy" story that the previews hinted at for next week pulls her into the action for a change.

Well the spy is not at CTU but in the white house - and that leaves just a few people to pick from. My vote goes to Daniels' assistant. Maybe she's part of that secret conspiracy that tried to nail Lenox. Maybe he'll come out as the hero after all this when he finds out she is the spy. Anyhow, I'm glad Palmer is out - he was a real bed-wetter this season. By the way, that had to be the most unromantic kiss I've ever seen on screen - I was afraid it would even have that unedited string of slobber to make it even more disgusting.

Audrey was broken, it seems. If she is completely under the control of the Chinese, than the Manchurian reference is probably going to be accurate. But then who is she supposed to take out? Jack is of no importance to the Chinese, although that would be a nice ending. But I'll go out on a limb and make another prediction: she will take Chang out, either in a fit of rage, or to tie up any loose ends before the Americans can torture him.

kexodusc

04-25-2007, 11:16 AM

Day 3 was way better than this season.
Ugh, ya know, as mad as I am, I can't turn away. I feel obligated or something to stick it out. Every show has several minutes of decent TV, then PLOP!, another log is dropped on the pile.

Think the show needs to go back to basics though - the self-one-upsmanship has lead to a pretty lame season of mediocre TV.

Groundbeef

04-25-2007, 12:44 PM

Last episode was even worse than the last one before it.

Super Agent Jack Bauer cant even hear Ricky Schroder drive up on a DESERTED road in front of his empty hotel. Not only that, but he somehow missed 3 Hummers being driven into the back entrance by the Chinese.

And why wasn't his finger on the bomb trigger? He holsters his gun, and then goes for it when all goes to hell. Doesn't even bother to blow up the chip.

And why the hell did he need the chip (actual chip). Its not like he couldn't have either scratched some of the leads, or otherwise damaged the chip.

And Audry is a basket case. I hope she dies from shock, and takes Jack with her.

Then the Oval Office romance. Like she needs to go home to get her nightie. Please. As if the VP is now gonna turn in for a little shut eye after assuming office a few minutes before hand.

AHHHHHHHHAHHAHHHHHHH This season SUCKS.

Woochifer

04-25-2007, 04:39 PM

Well the spy is not at CTU but in the white house - and that leaves just a few people to pick from. My vote goes to Daniels' assistant. Maybe she's part of that secret conspiracy that tried to nail Lenox. Maybe he'll come out as the hero after all this when he finds out she is the spy. Anyhow, I'm glad Palmer is out - he was a real bed-wetter this season. By the way, that had to be the most unromantic kiss I've ever seen on screen - I was afraid it would even have that unedited string of slobber to make it even more disgusting.

Actually, that's a pretty good plot twist if it comes to that. In recent weeks, it seems that the previews have been toying with the audience, so for all we know this might be yet another teaser that goes nowhere. Last week's preview seemed to imply that Audrey would get targeted by a sniper in this week's episode, but nothing happened along those lines.

Powers Boothe seems to have a deliberately creepy presence around women, no matter what role he's playing (you want unromantic, look up his portrayal of Jim Jones -- one of the scenes involved him seducing a teenage boy in front of his mother to prove how much control he has IIRC). Makes the skin crawl, but that's probably the intended effect.

Audrey was broken, it seems. If she is completely under the control of the Chinese, than the Manchurian reference is probably going to be accurate. But then who is she supposed to take out? Jack is of no importance to the Chinese, although that would be a nice ending. But I'll go out on a limb and make another prediction: she will take Chang out, either in a fit of rage, or to tie up any loose ends before the Americans can torture him.

I actually think the Chinese totally have it out for Jack -- keep in mind that they still hold him responsible for the death of their consulate. Jack didn't give them anything they wanted, so what better payback than to program the woman he loves to kill him? Jack's perfectly willing to die for Audrey, but I'm not so sure how he'd feel about dying at the hands of a brainwashed Audrey.

Day 3 was way better than this season.
Ugh, ya know, as mad as I am, I can't turn away. I feel obligated or something to stick it out. Every show has several minutes of decent TV, then PLOP!, another log is dropped on the pile.

Think the show needs to go back to basics though - the self-one-upsmanship has lead to a pretty lame season of mediocre TV.

I hear ya. Even though I've resigned myself to the general mediocrity of this season, I'm still curious as to what happens next even if the payoffs this season have been much less satisfying than past seasons.

I think the show needs to totally break the mold for next season. No more CTU, no more White House. Put Jack in the middle, give him a strong adversary, make the stakes personal, and build the intrigue from there. Why not end this season with Doyle double crossing him, and then have next season all about unraveling the tangled plots that run through him (perhaps involving Philip Bauer)? Instead of having yet another external WMD/terrorist threat, go back to the personal peril that defined the original Day One story arc. It seems that in successive seasons, Jack has become more and more of a caricatured super hero than the much more human character that started Day One. This season in particular, I've not had the sense that Jack was in any real danger, and that detracts from the tension. Even though it was that way in Day Five as well, that season also featured a much more interesting subplot involving the Logans.

kexodusc

04-26-2007, 04:02 AM

I think the show needs to totally break the mold for next season. No more CTU, no more White House. Put Jack in the middle, give him a strong adversary, make the stakes personal, and build the intrigue from there. Why not end this season with Doyle double crossing him, and then have next season all about unraveling the tangled plots that run through him (perhaps involving Philip Bauer)? Instead of having yet another external WMD/terrorist threat, go back to the personal peril that defined the original Day One story arc. It seems that in successive seasons, Jack has become more and more of a caricatured super hero than the much more human character that started Day One. This season in particular, I've not had the sense that Jack was in any real danger, and that detracts from the tension. Even though it was that way in Day Five as well, that season also featured a much more interesting subplot involving the Logans.

I wouldn't mind leaving CTU behind, though it'd be risky to just drop some of the show's core characters. But, since their not doing anything Chloe, Morris, and doing very little with Buchanan, and wastefully killed Curtis just to hit a "spot" (or jump a shark depending who you ask), who cares?
I agree with your assessment of Jack. For me the show worked best when there was a bad guy who was Jack's equal, or when Jack was vulnerable. The impossible doomsday scenarios that keep out-doing the previous season are just getting silly.
Something simple, like a one-on-one good guy vs. bad guy style script for a season would probably bring the show back to earth. Or at least come up with something creative on the Phil Bauer angle.

Why do I get a feeling that this whole season is just about to come down to 2 shows which will do nothing except serve as a setup for season 7?

topspeed

04-26-2007, 08:53 AM

Man, you guys are gluttons for punishment. I stopped watching after Jack disarmed the nukes. The Audrey thing was just too stupid to bare. This season stunk on ice, no way around that. Watch LOST, it's sooo much better.

Nightflier,

I assure you I'm not watching Who's Line is it anyway/Thank God You're Here. :D: TiVo is a wonderful thing! American Chopper, Planet Earth, Soprano's...I've got plenty of options other than this dreck.

nightflier

04-26-2007, 10:21 AM

Top, I had forgotten about Tivo, so yes, then there are other options. I'm currently catching up on Jericho, although that show could use a little pick-me-up too. And I wouldn't be able to make it through this season without my magical Commercial Skip button. If I had a dollar for every SUV and Sleep-aid commercial, I'd be a rich man...

Wooch, Audrey killing Jack would pretty much end the show since w/o Jack the world will end. But even her attempting to kill him is too obvious of a plot-line, even for this season and this director. No, there's got to be something more....

Kex, is that the Enlightenment on Ubuntu penguin? I've just switched and must say Enlightenment is pretty cool - I like it even better than KDE and it's a bit faster too (sorry for the tangent, folks).

kexodusc

04-26-2007, 11:06 AM

Kex, is that the Enlightenment on Ubuntu penguin? I've just switched and must say Enlightenment is pretty cool - I like it even better than KDE and it's a bit faster too (sorry for the tangent, folks).
Think it's just the Gnome Ubuntu penguin. I haven't decided which desktop manager I prefer yet...I like'em all. I like the Ubuntu distros the best just because they have the best support groups and largest user base which is great for a dummy like me with loads of questions everytime I try something new. I guess I prefer the stability of Gnome to the other desktop managers still. (though it's ugly at first until you install some eye candy) . I am not the most computer savvy person by any means, and anything that makes sense to me is safe to dub "user friendly".

Haven't played with Enlightenment much, what distro you using it with?

Woochifer

04-26-2007, 12:58 PM

I wouldn't mind leaving CTU behind, though it'd be risky to just drop some of the show's core characters. But, since their not doing anything Chloe, Morris, and doing very little with Buchanan, and wastefully killed Curtis just to hit a "spot" (or jump a shark depending who you ask), who cares?

The time's right to do a total restart with the supporting cast, since the only real core character left seems to be Jack. If you look at the current cast, none of them date back to Day One (or even Day Two), and Chloe's the only one who dates back to Day Three. Too many of the interesting characters on the show have been killed off (David Palmer, Tony, Michelle, Sherry Palmer, Nina, Mandy, Curtis, Edgar, President Logan, Lynn McGill, Chapelle, Mason) or relegated to the background, and most of the replacement characters have not connected nearly as well.

I agree with your assessment of Jack. For me the show worked best when there was a bad guy who was Jack's equal, or when Jack was vulnerable. The impossible doomsday scenarios that keep out-doing the previous season are just getting silly.
Something simple, like a one-on-one good guy vs. bad guy style script for a season would probably bring the show back to earth. Or at least come up with something creative on the Phil Bauer angle.

There are only so many things that the writers can do to keep upping the ante. Day One was primarily about an assassination plot. Day Two brought in the bioterror element, Day Three introduced nukes, Day Four had Air Force One shot down and the nuclear football in the hands of terrorists, Day Five had the President himself involved in a terrorist plot, and Day Six featured the actual detonation of a nuclear device in a populated area.

So far, the best story arc on 24 has been the original assassination/kidnapping plot that covered the first 13 hours of Day One. No WMDs, no foreign terrorists. Just Jack, Kim, David, and Terri in heap of peril, and the would-be assassins holding all the cards. A return to the basics would be a great change of pace at this point.

Why do I get a feeling that this whole season is just about to come down to 2 shows which will do nothing except serve as a setup for season 7?

You're probably right about that. And if they do a good setup for Day Seven, I just hope they don't squander it like they've done the last couple of seasons. Jack faking his own death, and later getting abducted by the Chinese had the potential to take 24 in interesting new directions. But, in each case, the story reverted back to terrorist plots and Jack again running interference for CTU.

Wooch, Audrey killing Jack would pretty much end the show since w/o Jack the world will end. But even her attempting to kill him is too obvious of a plot-line, even for this season and this director. No, there's got to be something more....

Given how thinned out the supporting cast has gotten, and no one new has stepped up this season, I think killing Jack would be the end of 24 at this point. Previous years I would not have said that, since part of the persistent tension inherent in the series is that anyone can get killed off at any time, including Jack. Even last season, there were rumors that Edward Norton would join the cast midseason and eventually take over the lead role, leaving Jack's fate completely up in the air. Among this year's additions, I just can't see Ricky Schroder carrying the torch for 24 as the new lead should Jack die at the end of this season.

I hope the story arc with Audrey has more layers to it than a simple Manchurian Candidate rehash. But, given how many plot twists I've correctly predicted this season (previous years I hardly ever got the plot twists right, which to me is a very good thing), I can easily see things going in that direction.

nightflier

04-27-2007, 11:37 AM

You're probably right about that. And if they do a good setup for Day Seven, I just hope they don't squander it like they've done the last couple of seasons. Jack faking his own death, and later getting abducted by the Chinese had the potential to take 24 in interesting new directions. But, in each case, the story reverted back to terrorist plots and Jack again running interference for CTU.

Well here's my wish list, along the same theme of getting back to basics:

- End this season with Jack an outlaw, Reynolds committing suicide, Chang dead, the chip lost, Chloe missing, Nadia firing Milo with prejudice, and Palmer still a vegetable.

- A meaner, less emotional Jack. I know he's been to hell, but Silver Spoons is out-bad-a**ing him right now.

- Eliminate Audrey (sorry guys, I know she's hot, but she's way too much of a winer).

- Bring back Elisha Cuthbert into the plot-line (if the baddies wanted to hurt Jack, that's who I would kidnap). Heck let's bring back a pi**ed-off one-arm Jake with a creepy hook where his hand used to be. Who will try and save her, for old-time's sake (he's still alive, right?).

- Forget about the jump-the-shark-let's-blow-up-another-city-with-nukes threat. How about some good old home-grown baddies? There are plenty of domestic groups that would qualify. How about some well-organized, religious fanatics from the Midwest?

- To add a subplot, this group could have a really creepy sadist in their midst or maybe an extreme branch of truly zealous nutjobs who want to bring about the second coming? And there is some infighting that CTU will be able to take advantage of - OK, I know, they'll just send Jack in...

- Make the puppet masters the shadow-government baddies that his father works for and introduce some of their smarter, more ruthless suits. Mr.Smith/Elrond would be a good candidate.

- Tie it to an election year (October surprize anyone? 1932 Berlin?)

- If it absolutely has to have an international element, throw in a few Cuban or Salvadoran creeps with a penchant for power tools. With all the ugly business the US has done with those nasty elements, there's got to be some material there.

- Make the president-to-be really evil but not obviously so (sorry, but having a Jim Jones look-alike just doesn't work, and Logan/Nixon was way too unstable). We need a pres who comes off as a man of the people and then turns out to be a true evil genius, completely beholden to the shadow government.

- Bring in more foreign movie stars. One of the things that rally works well is seeing faces you know you've seen somewhere, but you can't really place 'em (the russian consular-general / Denenthor, or that guy who was the mummy were both good).

- Less crying/emotions/love stories. This is CTU folks, not the OC!

- Bring back a true female adversary/counterpart (why did they have to kill off Nina?) who can go toe-to-toe with Jack w/o wining like a prima-dona. If you have to, make her butch and gay, although she still needs to be good-looking, for the testosterone-factor of the average viewer. Lucy Lawless?

- Show Jack at least taking a leak - he may be super-human, but even the toughest guys have bladders.

nightflier

05-02-2007, 09:22 AM

This is the first week that no one has posted here, not even by Wednesday. I guess this last hour was not a big hit.

Think it's just the Gnome Ubuntu penguin....Haven't played with Enlightenment much, what distro you using it with?

Kex, it's always good to see someone else using Linux on the desktop, and I have almost never stumbled across anyone using Enlightenment, hence my curriosity. Unfortunately I'm stuck using Winslows at work, but I have Xubuntu at home, and a laptop running Elive, which is a distribution specific to the Enlightenment desktop but that is nearly impossible to download for free (not very GPL-compliant, if you ask me). The Xubuntu is set up pretty much for multimedia & design - it's where I get to create stuff. If you like the Ubuntu way, but want to give Enlightenment a whirl, you might want to check out Elbuntu.

P.S. I started a new thread asking people what OS/Browser they were using:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=190435#post190435

kexodusc

05-02-2007, 09:52 AM

This is the first week that no one has posted here, not even by Wednesday. I guess this last hour was not a big hit.

Kex, it's always good to see someone else using Linux on the desktop, and I have almost never stumbled across anyone using Enlightenment, hence my curriosity. Unfortunately I'm stuck using Winslows at work, but I have Xubuntu at home, and a laptop running Elive, which is a distribution specific to the Enlightenment desktop but that is nearly impossible to download for free (not very GPL-compliant, if you ask me). The Xubuntu is set up pretty much for multimedia & design - it's where I get to create stuff. If you like the Ubuntu way, but want to give Enlightenment a whirl, you might want to check out Elbuntu.

P.S. I started a new thread asking people what OS/Browser they were using:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=190435#post190435

Hey Nightflier, I have Xubuntu on my "old P3 1 GHz" machine I use basically as a web browser/media server. Funny how Window XP slowed that thing to sluggish crawl after a few years - Xubuntu runs lightning fast. It's simple, easy and really makes you ask questions about how much computer power we really need these days.

kexodusc

05-02-2007, 09:56 AM

I actually thougth this week's show was much better than we've seen lately. I liked the angle with the President's cheating girlfriend slipping the Russians info inadvertently, but thought they wasted an opportunity to do more with it by just sending her off to feed bad info to the Russians.

The whole Audrey/Jack thing - predictable, but not terrible.

The Doyle releasing Jack and motivating Nadia to do the right thing - bleeechh! Predictable, but oh well. Wasn't terrible until Doyle said "you did stand up to them when it counted" or whatever..

I'm kinda curious how they're going to wrap this all up in a few shows. Maybe it'll get really good really quick. I like that Audrey's Dad freaked out at him, so he loses another person in his life. Jack's always the victim. Poor guy.

Man, Jack's doing alright for a guy just back in the USA after months of torture, psychological shock, physical exhaustion and injuries, and no sleep or food for 21 hours.

Woochifer

05-03-2007, 12:07 PM

I will say that this week's episode was a bit longer on character development than we've seen recently, but for whatever reason it didn't really strike me until Jack's encounter with Secretary Heller. Great scene between those two.

It seems that things are kind of floating along, with few real surprises. Daniels' assistant was the obvious "spy" but at least the writers put a little twist in there by making her an inadvertent conspirator. This week was not nearly as bad as last week, but the storyline still hasn't created any real buzz from the plot restart. (Of course, in Day One, it took about four weeks before things started rolling again after Jack killed Gaines and rescued his family)

The only revelation left I think is Jack being the real father of Marilyn's son (since it seems that she's about to reenter the picture this week), and then we'll see if Jack's curse extends over to them before the clock strikes 6am.

I have a feeling that Daniels will remain the prez next season, but whether that's consequential to the storyline remains to be seen. I read an LA Times interview with Executive Producer Howard Gordon indicating that he has some possible major changes to the series in the offing for next season. And a NY Post article had another producer admitting that they did not do enough advance planning for this season, and basically tacked on the plotline with Audrey.

Separately, executive producer Howard Gordon promises to "reinvigorate" the series next year.

"I don't dispute it's been a challenging season to write for us," he told the Los Angeles Times this week. "But it's reinvigorated our determination to reinvent the show. This year could be seen to be the last iteration of it in its current state."

He declined to say what the changes would be.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05032007/tv/its_jack_bow_wow_tv_adam_buckman.htm

Should be interesting to see what changes they make to the series because next season will supposedly tie in with a 24 movie slated for theaters next summer.

Either way, it looks like the Jack-CTU-White House triumvirate formula will go by the wayside for Day Seven. It remains to be seen if the "real time" element also gets tinkered with. I hope it stays, but at this juncture the series as we know it needs to give way.

Still four hours to go, but we're already speculating about next season! (Seems like the producers have already thrown in the towel for this season as well) Except for Day Three, I can't think of another season where I wasn't on pins and needles anticipating the next plot twists as the season finale drew closer. Oh how the might have fallen!

kexodusc

05-04-2007, 06:08 AM

I will say that this week's episode was a bit longer on character development than we've seen recently, but for whatever reason it didn't really strike me until Jack's encounter with Secretary Heller. Great scene between those two.

It seems that things are kind of floating along, with few real surprises. Daniels' assistant was the obvious "spy" but at least the writers put a little twist in there by making her an inadvertent conspirator. This week was not nearly as bad as last week, but the storyline still hasn't created any real buzz from the plot restart. (Of course, in Day One, it took about four weeks before things started rolling again after Jack killed Gaines and rescued his family)

The only revelation left I think is Jack being the real father of Marilyn's son (since it seems that she's about to reenter the picture this week), and then we'll see if Jack's curse extends over to them before the clock strikes 6am.

I have a feeling that Daniels will remain the prez next season, but whether that's consequential to the storyline remains to be seen. I read an LA Times interview with Executive Producer Howard Gordon indicating that he has some possible major changes to the series in the offing for next season. And a NY Post article had another producer admitting that they did not do enough advance planning for this season, and basically tacked on the plotline with Audrey.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05032007/tv/its_jack_bow_wow_tv_adam_buckman.htm

Should be interesting to see what changes they make to the series because next season will supposedly tie in with a 24 movie slated for theaters next summer.

Either way, it looks like the Jack-CTU-White House triumvirate formula will go by the wayside for Day Seven. It remains to be seen if the "real time" element also gets tinkered with. I hope it stays, but at this juncture the series as we know it needs to give way.

Still four hours to go, but we're already speculating about next season! (Seems like the producers have already thrown in the towel for this season as well) Except for Day Three, I can't think of another season where I wasn't on pins and needles anticipating the next plot twists as the season finale drew closer. Oh how the might have fallen!

Good points. Nice to see the EP owning up to the difficulties of this season. I don't think they're happy with the way it panned out either. Should provide motivation for a better season next year. I hope. At this stage of the game I'm just hoping for a great setup for next year, and even a mediocre conclusion to the trainwreck that was Day 6 would be an accomplishment. Not the worst TV I watch, but sad because of the potential the show has.

I'm kind of curious as to how they might tie this in to the movie their planning though. Seems to me the best "24" could be on the big screen is a take on "Speed". Been there, done that. Maybe with some drama from the show to help it out. I just hope that Day 7 doesn't stumble and serve only to setup the film.

I hope you're right about the overhaul, the Jack/CTU/White House paradigm was growing stale in Day 5. Time to maybe switch settings and leave them out of it.

LOL...Why do I have a feeling Day 7 is going to start in a "Prison" somewhere (China?) with the first few shows being about Jack and some friends trying to "Break" out??? :out:

nightflier

05-04-2007, 09:49 AM

... the Jack/CTU/White House paradigm was growing stale in Day 5. Time to maybe switch settings and leave them out of it.

Yes, especially since in the real world, presidents are rarely if ever involved in operational logistics of a specific agency, much less that they would actually be discussing strategy with an agent over the phone. Fact is, there are usually several layers of insulating middlemen between politicians and field operatives.

As far as next season, let's see this directors grow some cojones and take Jack to some far-off place like Afghanistan. It needen't be expensive either as there is plenty of scenery in the Southwest US that could be convincing enough for a full-scale movie set. I also wouldn't mind more of a hunter-hunted (a la Apocalypto) adrenaline scenes. Make Keifer earn his big fat paycheck.

Kexo, if you like Kubuntu, check out ZenWalk Linux. Another very nice distribution based on kfce that is slick, zippy, and very well supported without all the bloat of so many other distributions (although it does hail from France, if you're political about that kind of stuff). Vive la différence!

Groundbeef

05-04-2007, 10:13 AM

Yes, especially since in the real world, presidents are rarely if ever involved in operational logistics of a specific agency, much less that they would actually be discussing strategy with an agent over the phone. Fact is, there are usually several layers of insulating middlemen between politicians and field operatives.

As far as next season, let's see this directors grow some cojones and take Jack to some far-off place like Afghanistan. It needen't be expensive either as there is plenty of scenery in the Southwest US that could be convincing enough for a full-scale movie set. I also wouldn't mind more of a hunter-hunted (a la Apocalypto) adrenaline scenes. Make Keifer earn his big fat paycheck.!

I think the interaction between the prez and a field agent is the least of 24's problems. More immediate would be the constant mole/spy action in both the administration, and the CTU. If we are going to nitpick I would think those 2 items would be a bit higher on the food chain.

But that FBI guy that sold secrets to the Soviets for years, so I suppose it could happen.

Better yet, maybe Jack can discover where the castaways are on LOST. Now that would be something. A little cross network promotion!

Either way, this season has been more disapointment than excitement. Hopefully they can rework the formula, and come up with something a little more 1) Exciting, 2) Somewhat plausible.

At this point, in season 7, Jack will have to be launched into space to destroy a rouge astroid, D/L the schematics of the Space Station to his SPRINT PDA, and also single handly innoculate all of India for the bird flu pandemic spead by the "shadow government" for ill defined reasons. All in "Real Time". I can hardly wait.

Better yet, Jack can in season 7 find and rescue the "Losties" on LOST. A little cross network promotion.

nightflier

05-07-2007, 10:11 AM

Groundbeef, isn't there another thread about Lost? With all the talk about everyone on the island being dead, that thread must be buzzing like a hive....

I sure hope tonight's episode pulls things together. Still no indication that Jack's father will return, although his brother's ex-wife returning may be an indication of this. And I also hope that Audrey does something more than say "Save me, Jack" 'cause that's getting old. Apart from that, there's no much else to tidy up. Daniels' assistant will probably be killed off, back in LA Chang's got nothing to work with and everyone else flew back to the bat cave, I mean, CTU.

Am I missing anything?

Groundbeef

05-07-2007, 11:47 AM

Groundbeef, isn't there another thread about Lost? With all the talk about everyone on the island being dead, that thread must be buzzing like a hive....

Yep, there is. I was just thinking of ways for 24 to pull itself together. Kind of a 1970's "Very Special Episode" were 2 shows get together, to bump up ratings. At this point 24 really needs some help.

Groundbeef

05-08-2007, 05:01 AM

What is it with CTU? Apparently anyone can either just waltz into the place through the front entrance, and now apparently the "sewer" is a free pass as well.

Even my wife was rolling her eyes at that one.

THANK GOD Milo is dead. I hope that Cloe gets it next. If I have to put up with any more stilted lame ass Jr. High Love Drama I'm gonna puke. Since when can you shoehorn in two (2!!!!) love stories into a "1" hour time span? And what is the point? I am willing to overlook the Jack/Audrey angle because they have a history.

And whats up with Grandpa? First hes happy as a clam to kill of the ole' grandson, now he's going to kidnap him to China? This just doesn't cut it. At this point, I think each writer is taking a piece of paper out of a jar. It has phrases like, CTU MOLE, Kidnap Grandkid, Morris & Chloe Breakup, and then they try to pencil them into the story line.

AHHH I hate this season.

kexodusc

05-08-2007, 07:22 AM

Actually, I thought last night's episode was easily the best since the season premiere. Too little too late, but at least it had a bit of intrigue.
Attacking CTU from the sewer makes sense, it's probably the least guarded side of the building.

Milo getting offed was wicked - a complete and totally pointless, wasteful death that surpassed Jack killing Curtis and is the perfect symbolic representation of Day 6.

My hope now is that all of CTU gets destroyed/killed, and Jack is left alone as a prelude to the next season. If they can pull that off, they'll salvage Day 6. It'll still be the worst season, but at least not a total waste.

nightflier

05-08-2007, 11:03 AM

Milo getting offed was wicked - a complete and totally pointless, wasteful death that surpassed Jack killing Curtis and is the perfect symbolic representation of Day 6.

I agree that last night's episode was a notch up, and Milo getting wacked was very predictable. From the moment I saw the hesitation from Nadia, and him standing up, I said he's a gonner. Anyhow he was becoming a tired third wheel. It also is the most realistic thing that happened last night. In the real world, when terrorists take over a building with hostages, they never hesitate to kill someone, after all they hardly know the people they're holding. Only in Hollywood do they make this an emotional affair.

Another nice angle is that Chang is proving to be a decently believable bad guy. He's calculating, decisive, almost Machiavellian, and he has the power to back it up, both political and tactical. I sure hope they will keep him around. He certainly is believable as a counterpart to Cromwell's character, Phillip, although it's starting to look like a forced repeat of the Fayed-Gredenko dichotomy jumping sharks again. Now I'm still not convinced that he's just going to give the Chinese the chip and sail off to China. Maybe he'll redeem himself and kill Chang, but at this point, I think that's a long-shot prediction.

CTU getting attacked again? Even after the last time this happened? Yes that was cliche - and through the sewers with direct access to the inside of the building, of all things, yeah, right, that's realistic. And it was painfully obvious they were not at the warehouse and that CTU was the only viable target they could have been discussing. I thought the "package" was Jack, but his son, oops, I mean his brother's son makes for a good "package" too. Let's hope they kill his mommy off, because I also can't sit through another Jack love affair.

I also thought that making Daniels sit through his girlfriend having to bump fuzzies with her boyfriend was precious. There's nothing more emasculating to a wanabe powerful man than to make him watch that. And after that aliens-have-landed-in-the-Florida-keys flop that she ruined last year, she's still a bad actress. I'm sorry, but she came off all tough and ruthless when she was the VP's only squeeze a few hours ago, and now she's freakin out? Sorry, but at that level of power, you do what you have to. She's looking at the death penalty or life-behind-bars, and she has a way to fornicate her way out of it? Heck even straight guys would sleep with her boyfriend for that. And of course, he knows he's been caught, duh!

Let's hope some more shadow-government baddies show up again before the end of the season. I really doubt they are going to let it out that they were behind the leak to the Ruskies, so my guess is that they will be sending a "cleaner" over to sanitize the apartment. How about a guest appearance from Michael Madsen? He's been kind of stuck doing B-movies and shows, so I'm sure he's available. And he has the type of screen presence to put some much needed Tabasco back into the stew. He would certainly make a good counterweight to Silver Spoons, for next season.

Groundbeef

05-08-2007, 11:36 AM

I also thought that making Daniels sit through his girlfriend having to bump fuzzies with her boyfriend was precious. There's nothing more emasculating to a wanabe powerful man than to make him watch that. And after that aliens-have-landed-in-the-Florida-keys flop that she ruined last year, she's still a bad actress. I'm sorry, but she came off all tough and ruthless when she was the VP's only squeeze a few hours ago, and now she's freakin out? Sorry, but at that level of power, you do what you have to. She's looking at the death penalty or life-behind-bars, and she has a way to fornicate her way out of it? Heck even straight guys would sleep with her boyfriend for that. And of course, he knows he's been caught, duh!.

Actually, I don't think he was watching on video. They guy from Ally MacBeal was in for the show though. It was pretty funny watching him twiddle his thumbs.

Woochifer

05-08-2007, 02:02 PM

Yep, there is. I was just thinking of ways for 24 to pull itself together. Kind of a 1970's "Very Special Episode" were 2 shows get together, to bump up ratings. At this point 24 really needs some help.

Sheez, you seem to want 24 to REALLY jump the shark! (But, I guess if the show's already jumped, they might as well make the leap worthwhile!)

All we need now is for Ted McGinley to replace Kiefer Sutherland, Fehrooz (from Day Four) to hit puberty, Chloe to announce she's pregnant, and the whole 24/ cast to reunite for a season ending Christmas special, and we'll pretty much hit the entire shark jumping trifecta!

Woochifer

05-08-2007, 02:14 PM

I actually thought things had stepped up a notch as well until I started thinking ... wait a minute ... wouldn't it have been easier for Philip Bauer to just wait for Marilyn and Josh to go out the front door of CTU and abduct Josh at that time? Why have Cheng's mercenary squad shoot up CTU just to have a Bauer family reunion? I guess we'll have to wait and see what Philip's real plan is.

The tension was good, there were surprises (did not expect Milo to go down, and did not expect that kidnapping Josh was the objective), but it seems that no matter what the writers try on for size, they're hampered by a bad setup, since these plot twists don't make sense when you consider their context. Looks like bringing back Audrey was yet another wasted opportunity.

We'll see over the next couple of weeks whether they can situate 24 for an interesting Day Seven setup. At this point, it's all positioning for next season.

Groundbeef

05-09-2007, 05:17 AM

Sheez, you seem to want 24 to REALLY jump the shark! (But, I guess if the show's already jumped, they might as well make the leap worthwhile!)

All we need now is for Ted McGinley to replace Kiefer Sutherland, Fehrooz (from Day Four) to hit puberty, Chloe to announce she's pregnant, and the whole 24/ cast to reunite for a season ending Christmas special, and we'll pretty much hit the entire shark jumping trifecta!

Hey, if we can get them all to sing a "group" musical # I think we have a winner.

Speaking of Chole, at first her 'grimmace' was kinda endearing, and funny. As of late, it actually looks like she is constipated, and needs to bolt to the bathroom less she soil herself. I hoping they tone it down. My wife and I laugh just about evertime she gives 'the look'.

kexodusc

05-09-2007, 06:51 AM

nightflier

05-16-2007, 03:09 PM

I said it before, but does anyone doubt that Morris sacrifices himself for Chloe, thus redeeming himself for wussing out vs. the terrorists earlier in the day?
Well, I suppose he might not get killed, maybe he'll turn into the new Edgar/hero now that Milo's dead.

No I think Morris is a likable character, in a CTU kind of way. He'll probably be back next season.

Any thoughts on this last episode?

topspeed

05-16-2007, 05:30 PM

FYI, just read that 24 has been contracted for another 2 seasons. Also, they are planning major revisions to the whole premise of the show, although I doubt they'll ditch the increasingly incredulous fascade of "real time." Changes include taking the action out of Los Angeles (finally!). The producers say they were planning a series overhaul all along and this is not in response to the battering the series has taken both by the press and the ratings. Suuuuure... :rolleyes:

I haven't been watching the show, but from glancing at some posts, it sounds like just about everyone but Jack is dead.

Good.

CTU was the most porous organization on the planet. Moles? Sure! Terrorist infiltration? No problem!

Ugh.

This would be a great opportunity to utilize Jack as a Jason Bourne type of rogue spy. I'd also like a few Euro sites and take the show global, although perhaps they are saving this for the 24 movie? 'Course, after this season and the declining ratings, you have to wonder if the movie still has the green light.

Whatever they do, at least we know it couldn't get any worse than Day 6.

Woochifer

05-17-2007, 02:50 PM

As with the week before, this week's episode remained an improvement over what we had over much of the second half of this season. But, it seems like wasted effort because I still can't get past that one basic question -- couldn't Philip Bauer had come up with a less convoluted way of recovering his grandson than plunging the U.S., Russia, and China to the verge of WWIII? Y'know, like wait until Marilyn and Josh got home, and abduct Josh at that point? 24 has made a lot of logical lapses in its six seasons, but in each of those instances, I never questioned why a character did what they did, even if the situations were laughably far fetched. With Philip Bauer, his actions now just make no sense.

As for next season, I read the same thing that topspeed did. The only carryovers to next season for sure will be Jack Bauer and the real-time premise. Everything else is a blank canvas, and not a moment too soon.

From this week's preview, it looks like our dear Chloe might be dyed this week. Sad, but even sadder that I might not even care at this point, given how poorly her character was utilized this season.

Groundbeef

05-22-2007, 08:30 AM

Seasons over.....yeah.....whoooo hooooo....

Well, Karen, and Bill are out

Chloe will be out (probably)

Milo is dead. Nadia sucks. Rick Schroder is out.

I actually came to like Tom. VP is a tool.

It went out with a limp "pop" instead of a bang.

I about threw up when Milo's brother told Nadia "no, he's not a hero......HE WAS TOTALLY I LOVE WITH YOU......AWWWWWWWWW" Who writes this stuff? George Lucas?

And did anyone else do a double take when Chloe hobbled across the set before she "collapsed". It looked like she had to go REAL BAD. My wife and I rewound that and laughed out loud for that one.

Stick to the action. The drama just doesn't cut it. (Human love drama I should claify). For us mopes, this all takes place in "24" hours. With out any real vested emotion, I could care less if Nadia falls for 2 men in the space of 1 day. Whoop de doo.

And the Audrey thing? He shoulda just capped her, and then himself by the ocean.

What do you bet his old man was able to get off the rig, and into the dinghy? Remeber, he had the chip.....

topspeed

05-22-2007, 08:45 AM

OK, out of sheer morbid curiosity (and because Monday television stinks on ice), I decided to tune in a bit to the finale.

What I saw was the VP ordering a F18 strike on an off-shore oil rig 6 miles off the cost of LA. Right about when they said it was going to take 30 minutes to go down is when I turned it off and fired up the Wii. 30 MINUTES?!? Jack can get from Ontario to downtown LA in 10 minutes...by car no less(!)...but it takes 30 minutes to scramble a pair of F18's from...and take your pick here...naval bases in either San Diego, Miramar, or Long Beach. Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

They either need to ditch real time or have some semblance of reality in their stories.

Like Beef noted, the best thing you say about this season is it's over.

recoveryone

05-22-2007, 09:01 AM

kexodusc

05-22-2007, 09:11 AM

It would have been better if the Grandson would have finished off the Grandpa and then Jack would have been force to take him under his wing and train him to be the next assassin for CTU. The rest was like trying to drink buttermilk, just nasty!!!! yuk . I bet the baby is Milos' lol and Chloe won't tell morris unitl its born.

F18's must have came from 29 Palms to take that long and to to get misslie lock was a joke. In 30 min they could have came from Fresno..lol

C'mon guys - a Nuke was detonated earlier that day, the Russians were threatening war, and there was a known Chinese sub entering US waters...there's NO WAY there were any nearby F-18's already deployed in the region of the West Coasts most densely populated areas...:rolleyes:

Why'd they even need F-18's? Couldn't we have launched a missile from somewhere?
Holy loose ends - how did Presidents Palmer and Logan make out?

Groundbeef

05-22-2007, 09:42 AM

A couple of more thing about the F-18's.

1. I thought the days of "visual lock" were over in WWII. Isn't the next gen of warships able to fire and forget, not to mention not having to SEE the target. Isn't that what radar is for?

2. Why need 2? Why not send a squadren. I would have thought 1 with an Exocet Anti-Ship missle would have done the job.

And it was nice to see that Jack was able to scramble away. Not to mention that the F-18's never even SAW THEM ON RADAR. No mention of "hey, theres a chopper in the air. Should we take it out?" NAAAAA, lets just let it get away!

recoveryone

05-22-2007, 12:49 PM

C'mon guys - a Nuke was detonated earlier that day, the Russians were threatening war, and there was a known Chinese sub entering US waters...there's NO WAY there were any nearby F-18's already deployed in the region of the West Coasts most densely populated areas...:rolleyes:

Why'd they even need F-18's? Couldn't we have launched a missile from somewhere?
Holy loose ends - how did Presidents Palmer and Logan make out?

Not sure where your from Kex, but the places I said whould be the closes bases that would have F18's. 29 Palms is a Marine base in the desert about 200 miles away and Fresno is about 250 to the north in central Ca, an Navy reserve air base. Now if they would have sent F16's they would have come from March AFB in Moreno Valley Ca about 65 miles away. Now taking the time it took for those planes to travel that would the logical locations that they came from. MirMar is only 70 south of LA and it would only take 10min at Mach 1.5. But its 24 and I would love to be able to drive around So Cal in the time they do.:idea:

nightflier

05-22-2007, 01:01 PM

I think they had to lower the bar a bit, well actually a whole friggin lot, for the final two hours so that next season's show will actually be considered better.

This season was like having sex for 24 hours straight, except the only orgasm happened in the first hour... and the rest of it was, well, chaffing.

kexodusc

05-22-2007, 02:48 PM

Not sure where your from Kex, but the places I said whould be the closes bases that would have F18's. 29 Palms is a Marine base in the desert about 200 miles away and Fresno is about 250 to the north in central Ca, an Navy reserve air base. Now if they would have sent F16's they would have come from March AFB in Moreno Valley Ca about 65 miles away. Now taking the time it took for those planes to travel that would the logical locations that they came from. MirMar is only 70 south of LA and it would only take 10min at Mach 1.5. But its 24 and I would love to be able to drive around So Cal in the time they do.:idea:

Lol!!! I was totally being sarcastic...hence the rolled eyes smiley...

recoveryone

05-22-2007, 03:59 PM

I must have missed that lol!!!

Woochifer

05-30-2007, 02:46 PM

Alrighty guyz -- I can FINALLY get back to this thread! We couldn't watch the 24 season finale because my wife was getting prepped to go into labor of all things! I guess other events took priority ... :cool:

After watching the finale, I definitely agree that this season did not end with a bang, nor a whimper, but more like a thud (like so many of the other plot threads from this season). Lots of melodramatic filler. For example, Chloe's pregnancy revelation was a season finale retread of when Terri told Jack that she was pregnant. But, Terri's revelation had a lot more resonance because Jack found this out when he was en route on a suicide mission.

The ending with Jack and Bill leading the assault on an oil platform was pretty good actionwise. But, as with everything over the past few weeks, it's still dragged down by the illogical premise -- is this really the most efficient way for Philip Bauer to abduct his grandson?

Even the scene with Jack and Secretary Heller didn't strike the right note. All in all, this was a weak finale because it didn't even setup a plot thread for next season (aside from maybe some rescue mission for Cheng from the Chinese). Then again, considering how many cliffhanger endings that 24 has squandered over the years (assassination attempt on David Palmer on Day Two, Jack going into hiding after Day Four, and Jack taking the high road to China at the end of Day Five), it might have been wasted effort.

Better to give the writers a blank slate, and let them come up with something fresh. All in all, this season had some rough edges at the beginning, while still showing promise. But, things just kept spiraling downhill, and never recovered. Oh well, I'll still check in come January, but if things don't improve, I might follow topspeed's lead and find other Monday night distractions.

Groundbeef

05-31-2007, 09:01 AM

Alrighty guyz -- I can FINALLY get back to this thread! We couldn't watch the 24 season finale because my wife was getting prepped to go into labor of all things! I guess other events took priority ... :cool:

.

Now that ladies and gents is what we call a real CLIFFHANGER. BTW guys, wife went in to have a baby. END OF STORY.

1. Boy or Girl?
2. Size?
3. Is this your first? ( I am a bit giddy about this one...You may rule the board here my friend, but in about 10 years you will find out that you CAN be wrong no matter what side of the topic you are on EVERYTIME.....I find out daily from my 3 ladies how stupid I really am.)

Congrats!

Can we now expect 2 or 3 am posts, because your gonna be up anyways!

Woochifer

05-31-2007, 03:14 PM

Now that ladies and gents is what we call a real CLIFFHANGER. BTW guys, wife went in to have a baby. END OF STORY.

1. Boy or Girl?
2. Size?
3. Is this your first? ( I am a bit giddy about this one...You may rule the board here my friend, but in about 10 years you will find out that you CAN be wrong no matter what side of the topic you are on EVERYTIME.....I find out daily from my 3 ladies how stupid I really am.)

Congrats!

Can we now expect 2 or 3 am posts, because your gonna be up anyways!

Sorry 'bout leavin things hanging ... so here you go!

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=22929

Already preparing for that triangulation effect when the girl is old enough to tag team dear old dad with mom's assistance. But, at least I know I'll have my dog in my corner, so maybe that will even things out (unless we wind up having another girl, then it's over)!

Woochifer

06-01-2007, 11:10 AM

Looks like the first details about Day Seven are starting to trickle out. So far, it sounds promising -- no CTU, a more personal storyline, villain will not be a terrorist, different locale, and the only characters set to return will be Jack, Bill, and Chloe (!). A reboot is much needed, and it looks like we'll get one.

According to a T.V. Guide interview with Coexecutive producer Manny Coto, "Jack starts next season in a very different place than any season so far. Let's put it this way: I wouldn't be surprised if there's no CTU next year." He also says that "There will not be a ticking clock on a nuclear device. We're hewing much closer to real life: tighter, more personal, more difficult for Jack. There may even be a plot thread that doesn't take place on U.S. soil. In a sense, it's a reboot — in location and personnel. We're going to be introducing a new stable of characters, along with a couple of old ones. Jack's not living under an alias. He's found a place he thinks he belongs and a job he enjoys doing that doesn't involve the government. What's also refreshing is the choice of villain: It's not a Muslim terrorist. In fact, it's not a terrorist at all. And the character is fascinating, someone with a supremely dark past who's done something horrific and whose ambition is to regain his stature in the world."

http://secondsighttv.com/shows/24/recaps/s7.html

Also, with my time off, I've been watching the 24 reruns on A&E. Right now, they're at 6am on Day One. Watching these episodes again just reiterates how far the writing has fallen off this season, but how great an idea 24 was from the outset. Even Day Five, which many viewers regard as their favorite season, had a formulaic approach, but the story and characters were so interesting, it was easy to forgive some of these lapses. Day Six did not have that luxury.

The first half of Day One remains the best that 24 has offered up so far. Very tight narrative, great tension, a very personal storyline for Jack, genuine surprises and plot twists. And apparently, the first half of Day One is the only time where the writers had the entire story arc mapped out ahead of time (at least up until 1pm, since Fox initially committed to only 13 episodes). I read that next season will have less improvising and more of the plotlines already fleshed out before the cameras start rolling.