CD players...

[vandalfsens]

What really sets CD players apart, anyway?

Aside from SACD, what makes one CD player sound better than the other? I've heard that most CD's are mastered with 24bits of data but that most CD players only sample 20 and discard the rest? So a good CD player samples all 24? And what about HDCD encoding?

I'm sure that most of it has to do with the processing chip but what should I look for?

What's the difference between a "transport" and a "player?"

Is there a really good universal disc player out there for less than $1000? ?500?

[basite]

hi, and welcome to the forums,

a transport just reads the cd and outputs it in a digital form, so no analog outputs on the transport, the D/A converting happens in the seperate DAC, or in the receiver, or processor...

a player reads the cd, and can output both in digital form, and in analog form, this means that there already is a Digital/Analog converter (dac) in the cd player,

so basically, when you have a cd player and you use the digital or the optical out, you are using it as a transport.

what makes the one cd player sound different from the other?
pretty much everything inside,
how stable it runs, how good the dac is, how good the laser is, error correction or not, what kind of technology used, this will all determine the sound of the cd player,
for this reason, we prefer a cd or sacd player for cd playback, and not a dvd player.

keep them spinning,
Bert.

[BillyB]

[QUOTE=vandalfsens]What really sets CD players apart, anyway?

Aside from SACD, what makes one CD player sound better than the other? I've heard that most CD's are mastered with 24bits of data but that most CD players only sample 20 and discard the rest? So a good CD player samples all 24? And what about HDCD encoding?

I'm sure that most of it has to do with the processing chip but what should I look for?

What's the difference between a "transport" and a "player?"

Is there a really good universal disc player out there for less than $1000? ?500?[/QUOTE

I wouldn't put HDCD encoding on your priority list as that format isn't widely available.You probably could get a good universal player for under $1000 or even under $500 from Marantz as it's all relative to the quality of the rest of your system.If your other components and speakers are very good than you could easily justify spending $500 to $1000 on a player but would be better served for Audio by buying a dedicated CD player for audio only.If your equipment is just average than a universal player is probably more than adequate.

[Feanor]

HI, welcome to AR.


Have a read of my earlier comments on this subject ...
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=168115#poststop

A "transport" basically spins and lets you navigate the disc; a "player" does this but also decodes the digital signal into analog so it can be used by a standard receiver or amplifier, that is, a player has DAC (digital to analog converter). Most AV (audio-video) receivers have built in DACs that decode CD and multi-channel DVD sound but not HDCD (except as standard CD) and not SACD. For these you will need an appropriately equiped player.

Yes, there are some quite good universal players even for under $500; (not all have HDCD decoding however). One that's had of lot of buzz lately is this one:
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_index.html
This one does it all including HDCD.

[aevans]

What really sets CD players apart, anyway?

my blub of the day:
digital equipment is 3 basic components, transport, dac, opamp.. I have found in my experiance that the opamp is the largest difference in sound quality of digital sources, and also the most neglected piece in budget components. looking at the ultra highend stuff the only thing seperating it from a $1000 unit is the opamp and maybe some stacked dac's which I tend to think is much less important, and more smoke than substance.



I'm sure that most of it has to do with the processing chip but what should I look for?

24bit 192k oversampling is a good start.



Is there a really good universal disc player out there for less than $1000? ?500?

I use the Denon 1920 as a transport/dac they go for about $300 now days(I paid $500), the only thing it's really lacking is a good clock, but I can't hear any jitter. and you can always upgrade to an external dac later if you can hear a difference

If you put this product with a quality external opamp you should be sitting pretty, I use a burson:
http://www.bursonaudio.com/Burson%20HDAM%20Buffer.htm

Disclaimer: this is all opinion, so your milage my vary, but it suits my needs just fine and I have not heard anything sound better.

[Woochifer]

Well, in my experience the difference between CD players is relatively narrow compared to the much more obvious (and measureable) differences that exist between different analog components (e.g., turntable gear, tape players, etc.). Differences do exist, but it's up to you to decide whether these differences are worth the often exorbitant price.

With regard to the the resolution, the CD format itself is a 16-bit format with the data sampled at 44.1 kHz. Any higher resolutions used during the mastering process are ultimately downsampled to the CD format's 44.1/16 resolution during the mastering process.

IMO, the biggest difference that you hear originates with the source itself. If it's a good recording, and you have a high quality transfer, it will sound fine, regardless of the CD player. Conversely, a high end CD player will not rescue a poor recording or an improperly done transfer (which would include many of the early CD releases). And with the transfer, you do have a lot of variation out there, particularly with older recordings that might have been optimized around the characteristics of the vinyl medium.

[Dusty Chalk]

I've heard that most CD's are mastered with 24bits of data but that most CD players only sample 20 and discard the rest? So a good CD player samples all 24? And what about HDCD encoding?What? No, CDs are all mastered with 16 bits. There might be higher bitrates involved before the final master, but the final master is always 16 bits.

CD players use DACs that have higher number of bits DACs, but quite frankly, other than they might be better DACs to begin with (over lower res DACs), I don't see the point. I'd rather listen to a well-designed CD player with a 16-bit DAC than a less-well-designed CD player with a 24-bit DAC.

HDCD is a special case -- it's still 16 bits, but the least significant bit is encoded with a value that triggers HDCD compatible DACs into decoding them differently, in such a way that they effectively have 20 bits. Those usually sound slightly better to my ears, but we're getting into diminishing returns territory here.