Is this setup genius or insanity?

[Robert-The-Rambler]

The first question is how many speakers?

Well, the answer is 18 including subs.

The second question is how many amps?

The answer is 6 separate amps.

The third question is how many watts?

The answer is about 5000 watts RMS.

That is just the audio portion. Here are the details.

The heart of my setup is my Pioneer VSX-1016TXV receiver. It offers 7.1 channel surround via 7.1 inputs and 7.1 pre-outs. I don't use any of the internal amps. I applied some entry level DJ amps to provide the power.

Mains:4 Sony SSMB-350H bookshelf speakers driven by a single Gemini XG-3001 amp with 100 watts RMS @1khz for each. They are 8" and about half the height of the actual Sony floorstanders but I put them up front on the floor because I need to be able to fill my 6 foot by 8 foot screen with my Sanyo PLV-Z5 projector. Taller speakers get in the way of my projected image. That sucks. They are setup in pairs next to one another as if they were one speaker.

Center: 2 Sony SS-CN550H driven by a single Gemini XG-3001 @200 watts RMS at 1khz. They are setup also one next to the other.

Rears: 2 Sony SS-MB150H and 2 Sony SS-MF550H at 80 watts RMS each at 1khz. To fend off lousy listening angles I have a small 5 1/4" speaker on a shelf near the ceiling and 8 " 3 way floorstanders at ear level. Having both high and low surrounds helps in flying sequences in movies.

Center Rears: 2 Sony SS-MB150H and 2 Sony SS-MF550H at 80 watts RMS each at 1khz. Took the same approach as the side rears for the same reasons with the same speakers in similar positions on the ceiling and on the floor.

The Subs!!!! The real room rocking comes from my 4 subs hidden behing my 65" Hitachi 65F59A widescreen rear projection CRT TV. I have two Gemini GSW-15N bandpass subs next to one another with true 1300 watts RMS driven to them from 2 Behringer EP2500s cutting off the lows frequency output at 30hz since the subs only go down to 32hz. Filling out the lowest frequencies situated on top of the Geminis are two Sony SA-WX700 dual ten inch subs that have 250 watts amps.

How about that???

All this is connected to my PC with my X-Fi sound card and I also use my Toshiba HD-DVD player for high res movie viewing, too.

Sorry no pics but I don't have access to a camera right now.

[emorphien]

How much did all that cost ya? I would personally have gone with a simpler, smaller setup for my money.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

How much did all that cost ya? I would personally have gone with a simpler, smaller setup for my money.

The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together. The amps cost about $1800. The receiver was $400. My entire setup probably cost about $8000 including my computer. The expenses were spread out over several years.

[Carl Reid]

Is this setup genius or insanity?

Depends...

Do you prefer watching movies or listening to music?

If (as I assume you do) you prefer movies then that may be a genius setup...

However,

If your preference is music then that setup is clearly insane.... since for $8K you could get yourself an amazing audio setup and even have some change left over for a tv.....

[thekid]

How much rubber on the walls (for sound treatment of course...) :)

I am familiar with those speakers cause I use an all Sony speaker set-up for my bedroom but in what size room are these set-up?

A picture would be worth a thousand words in this case.

[emorphien]

I'd like to see pictures, but for $8000 I would not want to own that system. My father just purchased a nice surround system for just under $8000 using Martin Logan speakers and a Depth sub. I'd choose that over this any day simply on the basis of the better speakers. In my opinion I could design and build a system that would sound better than all that Sony stuff for considerably less.

So I guess I'd say it's insanity.

[SlumpBuster]

What?!?! No Pyramid speakers?!?! No HT is complete without some boss twin twelve Pyramids in a carpet covered box boosted from an 85 Camero! :cornut: :ciappa:

Pyramid powered by Gemini.... Now that would be sweet! :16:

[kelsci]

What kind of neighbors do you have or do you live in the middle of the woods somewhere?
HOWEVER, if you like your system and you feel it delivers what you need to satisfy yourself and the police are not knocking at your door every moment, by all means, ENJOY.

[jrhymeammo]

My cartridge puts out 0.4 millivolt. Now that's genius.

One question though. How did you come up with 5000watts RMS at some unknow distortion? Also you are mixing numbers in different ohms.

J-Murda

JRA

[hermanv]

The first question is how many speakers?

Well, the answer is 18 including subs.

The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together...edit...Wow, 18 speakers, $1,800. Averaged to $100 each. Those people who spends thousands for just two speakers must be truly insane. Or wait......maybe.....no, couldn't be

Obviously you are young, don't get hung up on numbers, sheer quantity of speakers or watts means exactly nothing except to other young people who often confuse quantity with quality.

[ericl]

Hey Robert the Rambler,

You're from VGR right? Welcome to AudioReview.com.

It's all about quality over quantity my friend, and then, simplicity. Your system is pretty definitely on the crazy side. For the money you've spent, you could get much much much better sound than i imagine you're getting. You want to focus on a quality set of speakers first, then build from there.

Good Luck,
Eric

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Hey Robert the Rambler,

You're from VGR right? Welcome to AudioReview.com.

It's all about quality over quantity my friend, and then, simplicity. Your system is pretty definitely on the crazy side. For the money you've spent, you could get much much much better sound than i imagine you're getting. You want to focus on a quality set of speakers first, then build from there.

Good Luck,
Eric

Yes I am a moderator at VGR. I built this setup as an all around wonder for movies and videogames and third music which still sounds great. It is so hard to describe my setup in words so I will try to describe it in pictures tommorrow on my day off. I want to clarify that my audio setup only cost about $4000 all together so I don't look at that as a huge deal for what I'm getting. I think for the price I'm getting a huge bargain. The 8000 dollars included my gaming PC, LCD projector, TV, HD-DVD player, and wires and such. Actually everything cost me about $10000.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Depends...

Do you prefer watching movies or listening to music?

If (as I assume you do) you prefer movies then that may be a genius setup...

However,

If your preference is music then that setup is clearly insane.... since for $8K you could get yourself an amazing audio setup and even have some change left over for a tv.....

I want to clarify that audio portion only cost $4000. $10000 includes video devices, a PC, HD-DVD player etc...

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Wow, 18 speakers, $1,800. Averaged to $100 each. Those people who spends thousands for just two speakers must be truly insane. Or wait......maybe.....no, couldn't be

Obviously you are young, don't get hung up on numbers, sheer quantity of speakers or watts means exactly nothing except to other young people who often confuse quantity with quality.

I'm 27 years old. I've been experimenting with this for several years and only recently went with the two speaker for every channel approach. I didn't do that for more volume as a highest priority. I wanted better staging. Having a setup with speakers that sound too focused does not sound real. I hate being able to tell so easily exactly where the speakers are. Without the lights on it is very difficult to tell where certain sounds are coming from with my current setup. They just blend into the soundstage better. For 3000 dollars I've got 3100 watts of true bass. It is not some farting sound like low wattage subs with straining amps sound like. The Behringer amps are for professional use and even in the most demanding movie bass fests they laugh at the task and want more. They simply do not distort at all. The Sony subs do well at what I ask them to do; provide bass frequencies from 20hz to 50hz. The Gemini bandpass subs cover from 32 hz to 80hz in a THX style setup where all the speakers other than the subs are set to small. For movie use this offers a tremendous dynamic range. The softest scenes are soft and the loudest scene are really loud. You might wonder why I chose bandpass subs. I chose them because not only are they really loud but they are able to handle way more than their recommended power rating. A musical sub is not what you want for movie use. You want a sub that is optimized for a narrow frequency range to make an explosion sound like an explosion and not explode itself.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

My cartridge puts out 0.4 millivolt. Now that's genius.

One question though. How did you come up with 5000watts RMS at some unknow distortion? Also you are mixing numbers in different ohms.

J-Murda

JRA

They are the exact quoted specs from the manufacturers. The Behringer amps are 1300 watts bridged into 8 ohms from 20hz to 20khz. So a minimum RMS of 2600 watts total for those two. 250 watts RMS each for the Sony subs is a total of 3100 watts RMS for the subwoofer channel. All the other numbers are measured at 1khz so depending on the amp you can knock off 10% to 15% to get the 20hz to 20khz rating. At any rate this is a true 4500 watt setup at least.

[pegglegg007]

Did you have to re-wire your house? Is this setup in the back of a power station? I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems to me that 4500 "true watts" would be roughly 38 Amps of current at 120 volts. That's at least three (ideally 5) 15 amp circuits running at over recommended loads (from where I'm from circuits are generally designed for 50-60% load). And that's assuming that the amplifiers output 100% of the input power, which is most certainly not the case as evidence from the heat energy you feel coming off your amps. How can this be? anyone?

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Did you have to re-wire your house? Is this setup in the back of a power station? I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems to me that 4500 "true watts" would be roughly 38 Amps of current at 120 volts. That's at least three (ideally 5) 15 amp circuits running at over recommended loads (from where I'm from circuits are generally designed for 50-60% load). And that's assuming that the amplifiers output 100% of the input power, which is most certainly not the case as evidence from the heat energy you feel coming off your amps. How can this be? anyone?

I have the amps spread out among different power lines. The plugs are connected to different sockets. The Behringers are on different power lines to avoid possible disaster because they consume the most power. They have power cables as think as air conditioners. You have to remember that you are never going to max out the power consumption of your total setup at the same time because in a home theater different channels and thus different amps are being asked for different power loads at different times. If I was listening to some low frequency tone through all the channels at the same time then I might have a real problem but since that is not the case it does not matter. Since the only speakers getting low frequency effects are the subs as long as they are separated accordingly it is not a big deal. FYI, I'm using 3 sockets for the amplificaton. Having enough current is not a problem at all.

P.S I'm currently watching Superman Returns on HD-DVD in Dolby True HD and have no problem at all.

[emorphien]

Yes I am a moderator at VGR. I built this setup as an all around wonder for movies and videogames and third music which still sounds great. It is so hard to describe my setup in words so I will try to describe it in pictures tommorrow on my day off. I want to clarify that my audio setup only cost about $4000 all together so I don't look at that as a huge deal for what I'm getting. I think for the price I'm getting a huge bargain. The 8000 dollars included my gaming PC, LCD projector, TV, HD-DVD player, and wires and such. Actually everything cost me about $10000.
I could do a lot better for movies, games and music with $4000 than you did I'm afraid.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

How much rubber on the walls (for sound treatment of course...) :)

I am familiar with those speakers cause I use an all Sony speaker set-up for my bedroom but in what size room are these set-up?

A picture would be worth a thousand words in this case.

I love these speakers!!!!!! They really do sound very good as long as you realize they are not worth fossilized dinosaur pooh for serious bass.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I could do a lot better for movies, games and music with $4000 than you did I'm afraid.

Thanks so much everybody for the responses.

It is really hard to have this discussion without being able to let you guys hear this setup but I'll do the best I can. I feel obligated to post pics. See you all later.

Rob

[emorphien]

Well speaker choice is very subjective. I've heard most of those Sony speakers (and definitely the centers) as well as their subs and thought all of them were pretty much awful without exception. I'd just go for a 5.1 built around higher quality components and I know I'd prefer it, but whatever works for you! That's really all that matters, although I don't think there's really any question that if you expanded your horizons and read and learned a little you'd find you could have done better.

[jrhymeammo]

Well speaker choice is very subjective. I've heard most of those Sony speakers (and definitely the centers) as well as their subs and thought all of them were pretty much awful without exception. I'd just go for a 5.1 built around higher quality components and I know I'd prefer it, but whatever works for you! That's really all that matters, although I don't think there's really any question that if you expanded your horizons and read and learned a little you'd find you could have done better.

We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).

Just so you know, your Sony sub is rated 250 at 3ohm. That 250 is not the same as 250 @ 8 ohm. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but I'll say 2 of your subs combined has about 100 watts RMS at 8ohm. I'm not sure how low they can play, but you may want to download a free frequency sweep test.and try it out in your system for sh*ts and g*ggles. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=19513&highlight=free

Best Wishes,

J-Murda

[basite]

your setup will obviously play good, but for the money, you could have done better, see, 4 small speakers will not match a pair of big speakers, the small ones might go loud, yes, but that's not everything eh? and why did you buy sony's?

Greetings,
Bert.

[emorphien]

We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).Agreed. We have all made mistakes starting out, and probably some of us have made mistakes after we already thought we knew enough not to. A lot of people get in to the "more is better" thing and eventually find they may have been mistaken, just as a lot of people wind up buying an awful lot of the wrong things (Sony for example, if you went Onix, Axiom, Polk, and countless other options you'd have a better system that was less complicated). That's why we come here, to learn and expand our horizons, as it were. Nobody here means you any ill will but if someone comes and shares their system it will be critiqued and suggestions given! I don't think I've ever seen this forum shy away from some tough love when it's necessary. So hopefully you can take as much pleasure from this site as I have, and learn from it as well.

Welcome to our misguided little family :16:

[Rock789]

a friend did a similar design, only his total cost was about 1/8th the cost of yours...lol
(he used really cheap stuff...lol)
it did sound really cool back in the hs/college days... (note this was more of a party system than a theater system)
anyway...

all your amps are rated at a specific frequency?
typically (the amps I have always used for home and car anyways) an amp will be rated over a range +- x db...
if the specs on a specific amp only are rated for a single frequency, I would be a bit curious how they perform...

[Robert-The-Rambler]

We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).

Just so you know, your Sony sub is rated 250 at 3ohm. That 250 is not the same as 250 @ 8 ohm. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but I'll say 2 of your subs combined has about 100 watts RMS at 8ohm. I'm not sure how low they can play, but you may want to download a free frequency sweep test.and try it out in your system for sh*ts and g*ggles. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=19513&highlight=free

Best Wishes,

J-Murda

Why should the ohm rating matter at all? A lower ohm rating just translates to more dynamic output with less of a chance of clipping with the same amp. Sound quality would depend on how well the amp performs at that 3 ohms. I don't think the subs are actually 8 ohms anyway. They wouldn't rate the amp at 3ohms if the subs were 8 ohms would they. They wouldn't sell any. 8 ohms stinks for subwoofer use. That is why I bridged my Behringer amps to get the dynamic output of 4ohm speakers from 8 ohm speakers. The 15 inch subs are 8 ohms. It is comparable to a McDonalds cheeseburger versus a true cheeseburger at a Diner. It is not even close. I dropped the resistance to increase the beefiness of the bass. It must be time for lunch.

[jrhymeammo]

http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

If you go to this site and click on specificatiohn for EP1500 and 2500, you will see.

It is rated 450 wattsat 8ohm both channels driven from 20 to 20k at 0.1% distortion. This is the figure you want to observe, but it still doesnt state whether they are continous/RMS or not. I believe 1300 watts you speak of is their dynamic power, which is not the same as RMS.

but all in all, it's not a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS @ 8 strong.

Also 99.99% of the time, there is no such thing as true watts. I still dont understand why companies do not get sued for false advertising.

Best wishes, and hope you'll hangout here since I'm certain that you have knowledge that I can benefit from. Just being selfish.

J-Murda

[jrhymeammo]

Why should the ohm rating matter at all? A lower ohm rating just translates to more dynamic output with less of a chance of clipping with the same amp. Sound quality would depend on how well the amp performs at that 3 ohms. I don't think the subs are actually 8 ohms anyway. They wouldn't rate the amp at 3ohms if the subs were 8 ohms would they. They wouldn't sell any. 8 ohms stinks for subwoofer use. That is why I bridged my Behringer amps to get the dynamic output of 4ohm speakers from 8 ohm speakers. The 15 inch subs are 8 ohms. It is comparable to a McDonalds cheeseburger versus a true cheeseburger at a Diner. It is not even close. I dropped the resistance to increase the beefiness of the bass. It must be time for lunch.

Yes you are right about sub. Most of them at rated at 4 ohm. When you are adding up total wattage of your system, you must be consistance with Ohm ratings.

How about this I paid $449 for my Pro-Ject turntable, and am using a cartridge I got in Japan for 23,700 yen. So my TT setup is worth over $24,000. Wow, I just upgraded the Sh*t outta my system.

But serously,

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.

[jrhymeammo]

but all in all, it's not a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS @ 8 strong.



Edit.

opps, I meant to say it's a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS strong.

[Rock789]

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.
double the current = double the watts pending the voltage is maintained which isn't difficult with a proper power supply...
however, not double the watts will go into music due to IIR loss...
components heat up quickly with lots of current... hehe

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Edit.

opps, I meant to say it's a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS strong.

I understand.

My Gemini amps are measured by the same industry standard and they are RMS numbers. They refer to those 1khz measurements as maximum RMS. 20 to 20 numbers are considered minimum RMS. Peak is something different altogether and I think they are required to use the proper terminology if it is peak power. So that is as true a 1300 watts as it gets whatever that means because I will probably never use them all anyway.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

double the current = double the watts pending the voltage is maintained which isn't difficult with a proper power supply...
however, not double the watts will go into music due to IIR loss...
components heat up quickly with lots of current... hehe

Thanks.

[musicman1999]

People get too caught up in the numbers game,in the end all that matters is how it sounds when the system is running.It has been my audio experience that a simple system made up of good quality components is far better than a complicated system made up of sub-par components.I have heard many Sony speakers and even owned a couple in the early days and they sound terrible.I am sure your system will play loud,but that is not what it is about,is it?If you have a higher end audio shop in your area,go and check out the demo rooms,you will hear the difference,I did when I was wearing your shoes.

bill

[jrhymeammo]

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.

I should've said designed product instead.


Well, I dont care if you have 10 or 10,000 watts. Like what some of us said, hope it brings you joy. And the way you started this thread, I betchu do. So, have fun listening to your music or whatever.

Best Wishes,

J-Murda

[Blue Meanie]

I think you've just invented the audio equivalent of the clown car.:cornut:
Cool.:thumbsup:

Jeff

[PeruvianSkies]

Depends.

90% of the people who see this setup will be impressed or at least overwhelmed by just how impressive it looks.

9% will not really give a hoot.

1% will think it's insanity simply because you could of spent that same amount and used less speakers, yet would have far more amazing results.

However, this all depends on what the original goal was. Is the goal to have complete overkill that seems to 'look the business' or is the goal to have great quality sound that is realistic in both music application and home theater?

Depending on who you ask and what you want to accompish than the answer differs. Based on the fact that you are even asking the question leads me to believe that you are going for something impressive, but more speakers does not mean better or more sound, in fact in might cause more problems than you would think.

Anyway...enjoy.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Depends.

90% of the people who see this setup will be impressed or at least overwhelmed by just how impressive it looks.

9% will not really give a hoot.

1% will think it's insanity simply because you could of spent that same amount and used less speakers, yet would have far more amazing results.

However, this all depends on what the original goal was. Is the goal to have complete overkill that seems to 'look the business' or is the goal to have great quality sound that is realistic in both music application and home theater?

Depending on who you ask and what you want to accompish than the answer differs. Based on the fact that you are even asking the question leads me to believe that you are going for something impressive, but more speakers does not mean better or more sound, in fact in might cause more problems than you would think.

Anyway...enjoy.

Compared to the DCM KX Series 2 speaker set I used before this layout of speakers offers a more atmospheric quality meaning that is seems to offer a more open sound that creates a sense of being there. That is important for games, too. Its not about how it looks. It is how it sounds.

[emorphien]

Compared to the DCM KX Series 2 speaker set I used before this layout of speakers offers a more atmospheric quality meaning that is seems to offer a more open sound that creates a sense of being there. That is important for games, too. Its not about how it looks. It is how it sounds.
I think you've been a little misguided. I'd certainly suggest looking at higher quality speakers. A 5.1 system can provide exactly what you claim you want, but with greater fidelity than those Sony speakers and it's not going to have to cost any more than the crazy system you made.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I think you've been a little misguided. I'd certainly suggest looking at higher quality speakers. A 5.1 system can provide exactly what you claim you want, but with greater fidelity than those Sony speakers and it's not going to have to cost any more than the crazy system you made.

My budget letf me with this choice. I was looking at the JBL Venue series but I could not justify the greater cost of hundreds of dollars. The Sony speakers are good if used properly. .

[emorphien]

My budget letf me with this choice. I was looking at the JBL Venue series but I could not justify the greater cost of hundreds of dollars. The Sony speakers are good if used properly. .
I thought you said you spent $4000 on the surround system.

[Rock789]

I thought you said you spent $4000 on the surround system.
yup

The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together. The amps cost about $1800. The receiver was $400. My entire setup probably cost about $8000 including my computer. The expenses were spread out over several years.

amps + receiver = ~ $2200... that could get you a killer B&K reciever!
but guessin the $1800 for amps themselves were also spread out and not purchased all at the same time... (anthem pva-7 is $1700 new...)

[emorphien]

I'm not going to decipher it all, it's just apparent to me that money was used in a strange way and that better results can be had by simplifying ones approach to making a home theater. As said earlier in the thread, more isn't always better (especially with Sony speakers!) :)

I'm guessing it was purchased in stages too. That's how I built my first home theater when I was in college, although I think I stuck to a more conventional and probably more cost effective approach.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

yup


amps + receiver = ~ $2200... that could get you a killer B&K reciever!
but guessin the $1800 for amps themselves were also spread out and not purchased all at the same time... (anthem pva-7 is $1700 new...)

Gemini used very clean class A/B amps at the time I got them. Yes I did buy them one at a time. As I tried them I bought more. They have a damping factor of 200 or greater into 8 ohms and generally were a very high quality product. They have since discontinued them and replaced them with absolute garbage. A Yamaha amp with similar specs would cost a tremendous amount of cash and franky probably not sound that much better if at all. I had a Yamaha RX-V795a receiver years ago that was the heart of my sound system. It had a damping factor of only 80 and was only 85 watts RMS!!!! Actually I still use it in my bedroom. The distortion numbers for the Gemini amps are .08 into 8 ohms. That is pure. The Behringer amps are Class H monsters with a damping factor of greater than 300 into 8 ohmn at rated power numbers. The distortion is some ridiculous .00 something number. You check the specs and these Pro DJ amps compare with higher end home audio marketed stuff. All my amps have separate power supplies. That has to count for something. Even a super expensive high end receiver should not be able to compete with so many entirely independent amps with solid specifications. I bought a moderate receiver because I knew I was not planning on using the internal amps and I also knew that I would be using external decoders for HD-DVD and my PC. The quality of the internal decoders would be fine for normal DVD use and the DSPs and equalizers would be more than enough for CD use with my old Toshiba dual disk DVD player with HDCD. BTW, HDCD adds wonderful sound to even regular CD not in HDCD. (High Density Digital Compatible)

It is a heck of a lot easier to just buy all the stuff at once but unfortunately I could not afford to do so and it led to some weird decisions along the way

[Carl Reid]

Gemini used very clean class A/B amps at the time I got them. Yes I did buy them one at a time. As I tried them I bought more. They have a damping factor of 200 or greater into 8 ohms and generally were a very high quality product. They have since discontinued them and replaced them with absolute garbage. A Yamaha amp with similar specs would cost a tremendous amount of cash and franky probably not sound that much better if at all. I had a Yamaha RX-V795a receiver years ago that was the heart of my sound system. It had a damping factor of only 80 and was only 85 watts RMS!!!! Actually I still use it in my bedroom. The distortion numbers for the Gemini amps are .08 into 8 ohms. That is pure. The Behringer amps are Class H monsters with a damping factor of greater than 300 into 8 ohmn at rated power numbers. The distortion is some ridiculous .00 something number. You check the specs and these Pro DJ amps compare with higher end home audio marketed stuff. All my amps have separate power supplies. That has to count for something. Even a super expensive high end receiver should not be able to compete with so many entirely independent amps with solid specifications. I bought a moderate receiver because I knew I was not planning on using the internal amps and I also knew that I would be using external decoders for HD-DVD and my PC. The quality of the internal decoders would be fine for normal DVD use and the DSPs and equalizers would be more than enough for CD use with my old Toshiba dual disk DVD player with HDCD. BTW, HDCD adds wonderful sound to even regular CD not in HDCD. (High Density Digital Compatible)

It is a heck of a lot easier to just buy all the stuff at once but unfortunately I could not afford to do so and it led to some weird decisions along the way

Look, you've gone for a very non-traditional approach to HT.... lots of pro amps and (arguably crappy) consumer speakers.... It's not an approach most, if anyone on this site would go for... but as long as you think it sounds good... then nothing else really matters... Just don't expect people on this site to agree with your choices... it's not likely to happen...

A quick test to determine if you really spent your money well... is to carry some of your favourite dvds and cds and try out some traditional 5.1 HT systems costing around $4K and see if you're still happy with your sony setup.... if you prefer the sound you get at home then you know your money was well spent.... if you get home and want to toss the sonys in the trash.... well....

But trying to justify/debate with members of this site about whether your system is genius or insanity is a total waste of time... unless they actually get a chance to listen to your setup and judge for themselves.... and even then your oppinion is still the only one that really matters....

So just enjoy what you have....

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Look, you've gone for a very non-traditional approach to HT.... lots of pro amps and (arguably crappy) consumer speakers.... It's not an approach most, if anyone on this site would go for... but as long as you think it sounds good... then nothing else really matters... Just don't expect people on this site to agree with your choices... it's not likely to happen...

A quick test to determine if you really spent your money well... is to carry some of your favourite dvds and cds and try out some traditional 5.1 HT systems costing around $4K and see if you're still happy with your sony setup.... if you prefer the sound you get at home then you know your money was well spent.... if you get home and want to toss the sonys in the trash.... well....

But trying to justify/debate with members of this site about whether your system is genius or insanity is a total waste of time... unless they actually get a chance to listen to your setup and judge for themselves.... and even then your oppinion is still the only one that really matters....

So just enjoy what you have....

I will enjoy what I have regardless but I can only hope that we all come away with something maybe we didn't know, maybe a few laughs, and insight into just how unique some setups can be. I woudn't take this discussion too seriously but it still does have merit. I like taking risks to see if I can help others find what they might like. I might be an example of what not to do to some and an example of what some might want to try depending on their taste. Anyway, I'm working on the pics. I have them stored in the digital camera.

[emorphien]

an example of what some might want to try
stranger things have happened!