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cpt998
12-25-2006, 01:10 PM
Newbie here, I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

I can spend at most around $700 on my setup. I have a relatively small studio.

Someone recommended Axiom m22's (460 USD). Others have suggested Paradigm.

I will be using an mp3 player and CD's to play music (I believe I will I will need a receiver, I'll worry about that later, I want the speakers first).

What do you guys recommend? I don't want a huge home theatre setup, I don't have the space. I want high quality speakers that sound great. Any recommendations? Bookshelf/floorstanding speakers are a plus.

Thanks for the advice
Ryan

elapsed
12-25-2006, 01:58 PM
Is the $700 budget for speakers, or for speakers plus stereo receiver?

cpt998
12-25-2006, 02:20 PM
I would hope to spend less than $700 on speakers. If I can get great speakers for $700, I'll buy them.

So it could go either way. Much appreciated.

Mark111867
12-25-2006, 03:15 PM
Hi. At your price range I would check out the Paradigm Studio 20's. There are a lot of optoins in your price range. The Cambridge Soundworks Newton M80 is another option ($500 USD). What kind of music do you listen to? Monitor Audio and Wharfedale have some options in your price range as well. Good luck.

cpt998
12-25-2006, 03:43 PM
Hi. At your price range I would check out the Paradigm Studio 20's. There are a lot of optoins in your price range. The Cambridge Soundworks Newton M80 is another option ($500 USD). What kind of music do you listen to? Monitor Audio and Wharfedale have some options in your price range as well. Good luck.

I listen to rock. I definitely want something that will accommodate vocals. I rarely listen to anything with deep bass (hip hop, etc..). I do want something that would work if I were to listen to this type of music, however.

Keep in mind I live in an apartment complex, I won't have many opportunities to really play loud music. What do you suggest based on the type of music I will be listening to?

Here is my current list:
Axiom m22- $460
Paradigm Studio 20s- $800
Cambridge Soundworks M80- $500
Energy RC 10's- $550
Ascend Acoustics 170 with a sub
B&W 602 s3 bookshelf with a sub

I will not have an opportunity to listen to these speakers before I make the purchase (big bummer). I'm having a difficult time narrowing things down. I've thought it over and can spend at most $850. What price range am I looking at for a decent receiver? Is a 'good' receiver essential?

I can purchase two different speaker setups, listen to both, and return the one I like the least.

Mark111867
12-25-2006, 04:14 PM
I believe that the Studio 20's are a step up from the Axiom M22's, although admittedly I've never heard the Axioms. Some folks think pretty highly of them though. The best thing that you can do is go and listen to a bunch of speakers. Don't get to caught up in the whole spec thing to much. Just buy was sounds good to your ears. Keep in mind that what sounds great to one person might sound very different to another person which is why most folks will tell you to go and listen to a bunch of speakers. There are some very knowledgeable people that hang around here, so maybe they'll chime in here as well.

N. Abstentia
12-25-2006, 04:40 PM
Definitely sounds like you're looking for the Paradigm Studio 20's. Not only are they a step up from Axioms, they are a step up from most everything near their price range :)

cpt998
12-25-2006, 07:29 PM
Someone told me 'A $500 receiver would not be the best fit for the Studio 20.'

This would be a problem for me and I would not be able to buy the Studio 20 speakers. Is this correct?

Carl Reid
12-25-2006, 08:27 PM
Someone told me 'A $500 receiver would not be the best fit for the Studio 20.'

This would be a problem for me and I would not be able to buy the Studio 20 speakers. Is this correct?

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Paradigms, but I'm sure a $500 receiver would NOT rule out any speakers on your list... you probably wouldn't get the optimum sound quality out of them...

Anyway, from your initial post it seems that you don't have space for a full blown HT setup... and you like music...

Have you considered a simple 2 channel HT setup? That way you could get an Integrated Amp instead of a Receiver.... The Integrated would likely get more out of the Paradigms than a Receiver...

emorphien
12-25-2006, 09:51 PM
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Paradigms, but I'm sure a $500 receiver would NOT rule out any speakers on your list... you probably wouldn't get the optimum sound quality out of them...
Agreed. It isn't required that you spend a lot of money on amplification, but those speakers will benefit from better source components.

To be honest though, I agree with Carl on the Paradigms. Good speakers, just like B&W, but I think you can find much better sounding options for less money. You might not agree though, you have to find what works for you.

cpt998
12-25-2006, 11:40 PM
I do not know what impact the receiver plays on sound and the speakers. I don't need anything fancy.

What is a 2 channel HT setup? I'm spending a bit more than I anticpated on the speakers, if I can save money on a receiver/another setup that would be excellent.

emorphien
12-25-2006, 11:55 PM
Home theater generally is more than 2 channel, such as a 5.1 or even more (like 7.1, etc). 5.1 means you have five channels or speakers: two fronts, two surrounds, and one center, as well as the one subwoofer (the .1 in the 5.1 naming). 2 channel would just be a pair of speakers, that's it. You could get a surround receiver and just start out with two speakers hooked up and expand it from there.

The statements about having a better amplifier/receiver are saying that with a speaker like the Studio 20, it's not going to necessarily always perform it's best on a less expensive amplifier/receiver that doesn't have enough reserve power to really hit the loud/dynamic parts right. That's really simplifying the amp/receiver puzzle as there can be many more differences between them than simply that, but that's the easiest one to convey in my opinion.

Get the best receiver in your price range you can. I'd probably go for Denon or Harman/Kardon before Onkyo or Yamaha but in the mid-budget range those are all good choices. You could also shop used but since I don't keep up with HT receivers you should wait for someone else's opinion on that, otherwise it just makes the situation more confusing. I honestly have no idea how much the Studio 20s are, although I did audition them recently. They can certainly enjoy amplification upgrades down the road.

I see you're also posting on audioholics. Don't worry too much about amplification, while there are differences, as long as you get a decent receiver, the speaker and your room will have a bigger impact on sound quality than the amplification alone.

(Receivers include audio inputs and switching, they also have radio tuners, and they set volume and amplify the signal all in one unit. An integrated amplifier loses the tuner, but combines input switching and volume control with the amplifier, they are generally considered higher quality than a receiver. An amplifier just amplifies, it needs something else to switch sources and set the overall volume level. Hopefully I got that all right, I'm tired so I'm going to bed now!)

RGA
12-26-2006, 06:43 AM
You really need to audition speakers before you buy -- too many different opinions on speakers and price has very little to do with whether it's going to be something you like. I would take the Audio Note AX Two at $600.00 over everything I have heard under $1200.00US. Other ones I like are the PMC TB2 and Dynaudio 52Se and Maggie 1.6 - but all of these are over your budget and all require lots of power. The AX Two would be happy with 8 watts.

The best advice is to listen -- somehow do that.

Carl Reid
12-26-2006, 03:04 PM
I do not know what impact the receiver plays on sound and the speakers. I don't need anything fancy.

What is a 2 channel HT setup? I'm spending a bit more than I anticpated on the speakers, if I can save money on a receiver/another setup that would be excellent.

IMHO, Speakers and Receivers play the biggest role in the overall sound of your sytem...

With Source (CD/DVD Player/Computer) playing a much smaller role and cables and interconnects playing the smallest role...

When I suggest a 2 channel HT setup... I'm trying to figure out whether you eventually want to have a full HT setup eventually... which means at least 5 speakers (1 Center, 2 mains and 2 surrounds) plus a subwoofer... or are you happy with never having more than 2 speakers?

If you plan to have more than 2 speakers eventually, then your only option is a receiver...

If not, then for the same money or maybe a little less you can get an Integrated Amp (which will only support 2 speakers and maybe a sub)... but will likely sound considerably better than any receiver in the same price range...

And as many others have said, try to listen to as many speakers as possible before you buy...

Great reviews do NOT ensure that you will like a particular product!!! I've tested and even owned products that had fantastic reviews... and yet they did nothing for me...

And spending more money does NOT mean that you will get a better sounding product... Recently, I decided to downgrade my setup from HT and computer based audio to a straight forward, two channel, CD only setup... and despite great reviews on several more expensive CD players, in the end the one that really impressed me was not one of the $1000 + players.... but a humble Marantz that I picked up for just under $300....

So Listen, Listen, Listen to as many setups as you can before you buy...

cpt998
12-26-2006, 08:41 PM
I have $1000 in my pocket ready to spend.

I listened to the Paradigm studio 20's and was not blown away (I was expecting to be). Nor do I want to spend $8-900 on a set of bookshelves.

I listened to the B&W 602, sounded good to me. They were $600/pair.

I have no more opportunities to listen to speakers, and I'm feeling very unsettled. I'm ready to pick something and go with it. With the Paradigm studio 20's out of the lineup, would you have any last minute suggestions? Also, can someone link me to a receiver that would do the job? If I'm not happy with the stuff I get I'll return it. Thanks.


IMHO, Speakers and Receivers play the biggest role in the overall sound of your sytem...

With Source (CD/DVD Player/Computer) playing a much smaller role and cables and interconnects playing the smallest role...

When I suggest a 2 channel HT setup... I'm trying to figure out whether you eventually want to have a full HT setup eventually... which means at least 5 speakers (1 Center, 2 mains and 2 surrounds) plus a subwoofer... or are you happy with never having more than 2 speakers?

If you plan to have more than 2 speakers eventually, then your only option is a receiver...

If not, then for the same money or maybe a little less you can get an Integrated Amp (which will only support 2 speakers and maybe a sub)... but will likely sound considerably better than any receiver in the same price range...

And as many others have said, try to listen to as many speakers as possible before you buy...

Great reviews do NOT ensure that you will like a particular product!!! I've tested and even owned products that had fantastic reviews... and yet they did nothing for me...

And spending more money does NOT mean that you will get a better sounding product... Recently, I decided to downgrade my setup from HT and computer based audio to a straight forward, two channel, CD only setup... and despite great reviews on several more expensive CD players, in the end the one that really impressed me was not one of the $1000 + players.... but a humble Marantz that I picked up for just under $300....

So Listen, Listen, Listen to as many setups as you can before you buy...

I will NOT end up with a full blown HT setup, ever. I want to have the option of adding a sub in the future. What do you suggest if I take this route? I understand that I need to listen, but I have very little opportunity to do so.

emorphien
12-26-2006, 09:13 PM
I don't really understand why you can't listen to speakers beforehand. Do you live somewhere that has no local shops to go to?

Honestly I think Focal blows away Paradigm or B&W, particularly so in your price range. If you have the option to get those and return easily, or hear them locally, I'd lean that direction. They have speakers covering basically the same price points as Paradigm and B&W.

Also, for your budget you may get a better speaker for your money with a bookshelf than with a floorstander, and you can always add a sub later. I suppose I don't really understand why you're limiting/restricting yourself in the ways you have (I can understand monetary limits).

Carl Reid
12-26-2006, 10:21 PM
I have $1000 in my pocket ready to spend.

I listened to the Paradigm studio 20's and was not blown away (I was expecting to be). Nor do I want to spend $8-900 on a set of bookshelves.

I listened to the B&W 602, sounded good to me. They were $600/pair.

I have no more opportunities to listen to speakers, and I'm feeling very unsettled. I'm ready to pick something and go with it. With the Paradigm studio 20's out of the lineup, would you have any last minute suggestions? Also, can someone link me to a receiver that would do the job? If I'm not happy with the stuff I get I'll return it. Thanks.



I will NOT end up with a full blown HT setup, ever. I want to have the option of adding a sub in the future. What do you suggest if I take this route? I understand that I need to listen, but I have very little opportunity to do so.

I'd suggest an Integrated Amp then... Just make sure it has Pre-outs and you can always add a sub later... So you can check out NAD & Cambridge Audio, since they have a relatively wide range of integrateds...

I actually like B&W speakers... so the 602s aren't a bad option, if you can find nothing else you prefer... But as I have to keep saying (I know it's probably a bit annoying by this point)... you really have to listen to as many speakers as you can, to find what you think is really worth your money...

I suspect that a NAD/B&W combo might be a good option for you... but you want to check out both closely... and the warning I will give about NAD Integrateds (I used to have a NAD C352)... is that the volume control on the remote is crap... so as long as you can live with that... it's a pretty good value for your money....

N. Abstentia
12-26-2006, 10:29 PM
Those B&W's are somewhat generic or neutral sounding so they might be a good starting point for you. Oddly enough I had the 602's before I uprgraded to the Paradigm Studio 20's back in the day..the 20's presented a much larger and deeper soundstage and brought music to life a little more. With the B&W's you just kind of get what's there..they don't add anything but you don't lose anything, sounds like that's what you're after.

As far as integrated amps, you'd be hard pressed to beat this one for anywhere near the price:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

emorphien
12-26-2006, 10:35 PM
I suspect that a NAD/B&W combo might be a good option for you... but you want to check out both closely... and the warning I will give about NAD Integrateds (I used to have a NAD C352)... is that the volume control on the remote is crap... so as long as you can live with that... it's a pretty good value for your money....
Never listened to the NAD/B&W combo... I have heard NAD/Axiom, NAD/PSB and NAD/Focal though and all went well together although they all obviously sounded different.

As far as the volume control, I don't have any issues with it. What don't you like? Sure you can't see the volume setting on the knob, but it is pretty responsive and doesn't go flying up or down in volume.

That outlaw is a great deal for that kind of wattage, but having not listened to it I can't say how it sounds compared to similarly priced (or less expensive) integrated amps.

drseid
12-27-2006, 02:27 AM
I think the Studio 20s already mentioned are a safe choice here.

A different option that I would recommend would be the Von Schweikert VR-1s. These mini-monitors are usually sold out of your price range at $995/pr., but VS has a clearance of VR-1s in a couple discontinued wood finishes sold direct for $540pr. At that price, they are a steal IMO, and I definitely prefer them over the Studio 20s. The VS website is located here: http://www.vonschweikert.com/ . Just go to the "Specials" link located at the top of the page go to the sub-link "Demo and pre-owned gear" under it to find the VR-1 offer (please note that even though the site says "demo and pre-owned gear under the specials heading when you click on specials, in the case of the VR-1s they are new 1st quality stock as described on the web page). The site also has pictures and a description of the VR-1 and its specs in another area.

---Dave

Carl Reid
12-27-2006, 07:07 AM
As far as the volume control, I don't have any issues with it. What don't you like? Sure you can't see the volume setting on the knob, but it is pretty responsive and doesn't go flying up or down in volume.

Actually that was my problem with it.... when I pressed the volume up/down buttons on the remote, it tended to go flying up or down... and required a lot of quick clicks of the remote to try and get it to the right volume level....


Some other Speakers to try (if you can find them).... are Wharfedale Diamonds, Mission M Series and Quads (though only the bookshelves may be in your price range).... I haven't heard the Quad yets, but based on the amount of acclaim in the brittish press they are worth at least checking out....

I own and love a pair of Mission V63s and one of the few other speakers I've really liked are Wharfedales...

An interesting point to note is that all 3 of these brands are now owned by the International Audio Group.... which would probably explain certain design similarities between them... :idea:

cpt998
12-28-2006, 01:44 AM
I purchased the Focal 706V's today for $595/pair. I was only able to listen to an entry level focal 800 series, a very similar speaker, and I was thorougly impressed.

Any suggestions on receivers/integrated amplifiers would be appreciated at this point. If anyone has any used equipment I would consider it. A used receiver would make sense for me at the moment, I can get something fairly nice and hopefully I won't burn another hole in my already small pocket.

Ryukyu
12-28-2006, 09:20 AM
Sounds like a really good price on those Focals. I'm sure you will enjoy them.
For used receivers take a look over at Audiogon (http://www.audiogon.com).

emorphien
12-28-2006, 10:34 AM
Actually that was my problem with it.... when I pressed the volume up/down buttons on the remote, it tended to go flying up or down... and required a lot of quick clicks of the remote to try and get it to the right volume level....
Interesting, hyperactive remote maybe. Mine doesn't do that, nor have any of the NAD amps or receivers I've played with in stores (most recently the C754).

Carl Reid
12-28-2006, 11:50 AM
Interesting, hyperactive remote maybe. Mine doesn't do that, nor have any of the NAD amps or receivers I've played with in stores (most recently the C754).

I'm not trying to bash NAD.... if you have a good one, then you're probably really enjoying it... but seriously try checking out the reviews on this site for the C352 and C372 and you'll see that NAD users generally either love the products or absolutely hate them (ususally due to some annoying technical flaw)

The 2nd review on C372 noted the exact same problem with the volume control I had.... and there are multiple reviews that complain about the low quality pre-amp (though they don't specify whether the volume control is part of the problem)....

emorphien
12-28-2006, 12:28 PM
I'm not trying to bash NAD.... if you have a good one, then you're probably really enjoying it... but seriously try checking out the reviews on this site for the C352 and C372 and you'll see that NAD users generally either love the products or absolutely hate them (ususally due to some annoying technical flaw)

The 2nd review on C372 noted the exact same problem with the volume control I had.... and there are multiple reviews that complain about the low quality pre-amp (though they don't specify whether the volume control is part of the problem)....
I know the reputation NAD has for sometimes flaky knobs and controls, I've just never seen it personally.