Line Out Line Out Line Out Line Out

[Morpheus77]

Ok, I can't seem to get an answer to my last post, so I'm reposting with the hopes that I can get my question answered this time round. I already know that "pre outs" is the type of RCA outs that I need to run an amp, I need to know if I can run an amp on "LINE OUT?" Once again I'm asking about the LINE OUT part of the back of a receiver, LINE OUT. I was told that I could, and I just wanted to verify that info. Thanks.

P.S. LINE OUT

Tommy

[markw]

"Line Level" refers to the level of the signal anywhere in the preamp or processor stages of the receiver. Or, to put it simply, anywhere before the power amp.

A Tape monitor is a line level signal, but this comes before the volume control, and we've been down this road before. Also, the signal between the preamp and the power amp (which iswhat you want) is also a line level signal. Any of these could be fed to a "line out" jack.

You need to read your manual a bit more carefully to determine from where in the circuit this one's signal is derived.

[Morpheus77]

A simple YES or NO would suffice. Can I run a power amp through the LINE OUT jacks on the back of the receiver?? Yes or No?

Tommy

[markw]

So, you want a simple answer when there are varaibles not accounted for, eh? I gave you the only "real" answer possible with the givens but you're too dense and/or immature to realize it.

Well then, technically, yes. You most certainly can. Go for it. After all, the plugs fit, don't they?

It's too bad you're so intent on maintaining your ignorance. Afraid of using your brain and perhaps polluting that vast emptiness with some knowledge?

I guess it's easier to avoid all that nasty reading, learning and thinking and post your questions here and expect others to do all your thinking for you, eh?

[ericl]

NO


you need some sort of preamp in between the the LINE OUT and AMP

[markw]

NO


you need some sort of preamp in between the the LINE OUT and AMPHe didn't ask if it do what he hoped it would do. It's not like I didn't try to get that point across to him.

Gee, this new batch of newbies is really quite demanding, aren't they?

[SlumpBuster]

I wonder if he is asking about the "line out"? Do you guys think he is asking about the "line out"? Hmmmm, it's tough to tell from his original post if he is asking about the Line Out? :idea: :confused: :ciappa:

Mark's answer is the right answer, i.e. It depends on whether it a FIXED LINE OUT (tape loop) or VARIABLE LINE OUT (i.e. pre out or even a headphone out).

If OP is looking for unequivocal YES or NO, then Eric is right. The answer is NO. In the absence of all the information and without the OP willing to accept a sophisticated answer, I have to assume OP is talking about a FIXED line out inappropriate for feeding an amplifier. Yes you will get sound from a Fixed Line Out, but Boy O Boy will it be a racket. :D

OP's original question is like asking "Is wine good with steak?" Answer: "Well, are we talking about red wine or white wine?" Response: "Screw you! Wine is wine. Is wine good with steak?"

[GMichael]

"Is wine good with steak?" Answer: "Well, are we talking about red wine or white wine?" Response: "Screw you! Wine is wine. Is wine good with steak?"


Well? Is it? I want to make a steak this weekend and I need to know. And don't start asking me if it's prime rib, fillet or a porter house. It's steak, STEAK. Get it? Steak! Why do all you have to clutter up a simple question. Just say yes if it's good or no if it's not. OK? Yes, or no!

[SlumpBuster]

Is it a tuna steak?

[GMichael]

Sigh, hopeless...:17:

[Feanor]

A simple YES or NO would suffice. Can I run a power amp through the LINE OUT jacks on the back of the receiver?? Yes or No?

Tommy

George,

Not everything has a simple answer. And you have to listen for the answers that are valid, not just the ones you want to hear.

[markw]

...question is like asking "Is wine good with steak?" Answer: "Well, are we talking about red wine or white wine?" Response: "Screw you! Wine is wine. Is wine good with steak?"If you drink enough wine of any type, you won't care about the steak. But, before imbibing, I suggest you check the box for a good vintage, say October.

[hermanv]

I think he said line out, then that changed to whine, he never said wine. Geez guys, pay attention.

[Morpheus77]

To Ericl, thank you! The rest of yall, **** YOU! Yall can all kiss my ass!

Tommy

[SlumpBuster]

To Ericl, thank you! The rest of yall, **** YOU! Yall can all kiss my ass!

Tommy

Oh yeah! Well, you enjoy your Vegas! How you like them apples!

[SlumpBuster]

Oh, and I probably shouldn't be this nice, but I looked at the other thread you posted, the one where you claim you got no answers. The Onkyo you link to will not drive a separate amp. In the sub $700 price range you mention, this will:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200502&CTID=5000400&RLTID=1504&DETYP=RELATION

But that Yammie will have a better amp than that Gem.

Look here for the Pre-Out section on the Back panel, that is what you want. It's right in the middle.
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/EnlargedImage/0,,CNTID%3d450648,00.html


Now quit being so angry and defensive with the world.

[markw]

Oh, and I probably shouldn't be this nice, but I looked at the other thread you posted, the one where you claim you got no answers. The Onkyo you link to will not drive a separate amp. In the sub $700 price range you mention, this will:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200502&CTID=5000400&RLTID=1504&DETYP=RELATIONIt doesn't say Line Out!

As for that other thread where he claims he didn't get any answers?, Well, he got answers, some pretty good ones at that. By his starting this thread with a whine, he simply shows us all that he either didn't want to accept them or he simply didn't understand them.

What's really amazing is that he can ask these questions, get many responses that cut up the answers into bite sized pieces, and he still can't or won't grasp the concepts about which he's asking!

Wunner what his next newbie question will be, and if he'll be able to understand the answers? Assuming, of course, that anyone bothers to reply. If they know what's good for them, let's just hope they answer either yes or no.

[SlumpBuster]

As for that other thread where he claims he didn't get any answers?, Well, he got answers, some pretty good ones at that.

Yeah, I saw that he got good answers. That's why I say "claimed" he got no answers.

I will guarantee what's is going on though. Taking the Gem amp and Vega speakers as an indication of his frame of reference, he is looking on Ebay at El Cheapo recievers. He is seeing some that say "Line Out" and wants to know if it will work with a separate amp before he buys the receiver. However, he is misconstruing "Line Out" as a term of art, i.e. that it means something specific that does not vary in context. Kind of like any input labled "phono" should lead to a phono stage and never vary. But, to me, "Line Out" is too general. I have optical output on a CDR that is technically "Line Out," but ain't gonna drive any amp.

[Carl Reid]

To Ericl, thank you! The rest of yall, **** YOU! Yall can all kiss my ass!

Tommy

Tommy,

Piece of advice: Relax...

These guys are just trying to help you....

The guy who gave you the NO answer just simplified things by making assumptions...

The first answer you got, was the best....

The question you asked really does not have a definite yes/no answer unless you provide a bit more technical information...

If you don't understand, a complex response from one of the more technical members on this site... then just ask them to explain it better....

Don't get upset and ask for Yes/No answers....

[emorphien]

Yikes. Mentality of a 12 year old!

[markw]

But, to me, "Line Out" is too general. I have optical output on a CDR that is technically "Line Out," but ain't gonna drive any amp.I deal with some pretty serious semi-pro equipment (A&H 4800, etc) and, in most cases, their reference to "line out" refers to a variable output. But, whatever. As long as he's happy. I do wonder if he's proud of this thread, though.

[GMichael]

This thread has been fun. I hope he starts a new one. Maybe he could do a DVD review for us.

[Morpheus77]

Slump, Thank you very much! You answered everyone of my questions, and then some. At least someone was kind enough to take time out of their schedule, look at my previous post, and saw exactly where I was coming from. At least there is one or two on here that pay attention. Again, thank you, I will be looking at that Yahama link you sent me. You see guys, that wasn't all that hard, we could have avoided all this testosterone, and all this "lets pull out the measuring tape, and sees who's bigger than who." It's always some long and drawn out sermon, like everyone is trying to sound smarter than the next person. Who gives a damn, I'm just looking for simple answers. Once again, thanks Slump! You rock! By the way, I like them apples!

Tommy

[GMichael]

Slump, Thank you very much! You answered everyone of my questions, and then some. At least someone was kind enough to take time out of their schedule, look at my previous post, and saw exactly where I was coming from. At least there is one or two on here that pay attention. Again, thank you, I will be looking at that Yahama link you sent me. You see guys, that wasn't all that hard, we could have avoided all this testosterone, and all this "lets pull out the measuring tape, and sees who's bigger than who." It's always some long and drawn out sermon, like everyone is trying to sound smarter than the next person. Who gives a damn, I'm just looking for simple answers. Once again, thanks Slump! You rock! By the way, I like them apples!

Tommy

Dude,

Put away the ruler. You're the one with the testosterone overload. I went back to your other thread. I saw that many people gave you answers. Some even read your owners manual and found out that the answer was no. But you didn't want to accept that. Instead you started bashing people. But it's everyone else? Come on man. Take a step back and take a good look at what you are doing.

[emorphien]

Slump, Thank you very much! You answered everyone of my questions, and then some. At least someone was kind enough to take time out of their schedule, look at my previous post, and saw exactly where I was coming from. At least there is one or two on here that pay attention. Again, thank you, I will be looking at that Yahama link you sent me. You see guys, that wasn't all that hard, we could have avoided all this testosterone, and all this "lets pull out the measuring tape, and sees who's bigger than who." It's always some long and drawn out sermon, like everyone is trying to sound smarter than the next person. Who gives a damn, I'm just looking for simple answers. Once again, thanks Slump! You rock! By the way, I like them apples!

Tommy
You need a reality check. You asked for a direct answer to a question that is more complicated than you seem to realize. We all noticed that you seemed to be missing a piece of the puzzle (it happens to everyone at some point, there are a lot of pieces to the proverbial audio puzzle). Since everyone noticed they actually tried to do you a favor to make sure you properly understood what you were asking about because if you did, you'll know why you can't set it up the way you wanted to. As some have noted, there are sometimes different meanings to Line Out but the most general and probably common/correct answer would be no to your question. However as is often the case in audio there's a big "BUT" tagged on to the end of that.

People aren't happy with you now because you acted like a jerk to everyone who tried to help. And you have continued to.

[markw]

I feel sorry for youe employeer and family, to have someone so lazy and stupid that they have to cry like a baby on the internet to solve their problems and, even when the answers are clearly pointed out, still cry like a baby because it's over their head.

How does it feel to publicly show yourself to be a stupid,(upgraded from ignorant. that's curable if one chooses to learn) lazy muckin' foron here? I guess you don't care. Y ou got your answer but, remember, you didn't do a thing to earn it, except whine like a baby and blame everyone else for your own inadequecies.

And since you bring up the measuring tape and manhood (typical of your ilk), from your showing here, I doubt the gradiations are fine enough to measure yours. Can you say "intellectually impotent", kiddies?

Geez, if you are this capable of figuring things out and doing for yourself in the real world, I'd have blood tests done on the younguns to make sure they're mine.

Be thankful Slump took pity on your sorry ass. I guess you're really proud of yourself. ...more is the pity.

[Morpheus77]

Well, everyone else doesn't have to reply either. The hell do I care?

[GMichael]

Well, everyone else doesn't have to reply either. The hell do I care?

The light doesn't shine very bright for you does it?
:idea: :idea: :idea:

[Morpheus77]

Let me tell you something Markw, if you don't like my posts, then why don't you take a ****ing hike! I don't recall asking you for ****. You're too stupid to get involved in any type of intellectual conversation with me. You don't want to start that war. Besides if you are so ****ing special, then you must have a problem even getting it up, or else you wouldn't spend your time on here dreaming up **** to make up where you lack. If you have a problem with your personal life because you're too damn stupid to know the difference between someone who is a real man, than I suggest you take your ass to a gay bar and get you some satifaction there. **** you and and your suggestions.

Tommy

[markw]

Let me tell you something Markw, if you don't like my posts, then why don't you take a ****ing hike! I don't recall asking you for ****. You're too stupid to get involved in any type of intellectual conversation with me. You don't want to start that war. Besides if you are so ****ing special, then you must have a problem even getting it up, or else you wouldn't spend your time on here dreaming up **** to make up where you lack. If you have a problem with your personal life because you're too damn stupid to know the difference between someone who is a real man, than I suggest you take your ass to a gay bar and get you some satifaction there. **** you and and your suggestions.

TommyThey provide me with a nice platform upon which I can explain some of the concepts of this hobby and, although I rarely toot my own horn, I'll go so far as to say that I believe I do a pretty good job of it. Now, I know you don't think so but remember, besides you and me, ther are most likely hundreds of lurkers out there that actually learn quite a bit. Not just from me, but my buddies here as well. Ya see, they read, listen to what's being said' and try to understand the concepts of what's being discussed. They internalize that information and use it to their own advantage. That's called "learning". You really should try it sometime.

The fact that you can't seem to comprehend the answers to your questions, even when explained in simple terms, is not my/our problem, it's yours. ...and then to go start another thread to whine about it is simply un-fargin-believable! You just dumped on everyone who tried to help you but, hey, what do you care? You really haven't made too many friends here if you haven't noticed, or simply can't tell.

The fact that you can't see that all slump did was reiterate what was explained to you (in great detail by many) in he previous thread is totally unbelievable! The only diffference was that he saw that you were hopeless and simply pointed to one product of many that anyone with common sense would have been able to do for themselves after reading that thread. After all, what's so cryptic about "preamp outs", particularly after it's been explained several times? What he did is sort of like dropping some coins into a filthy beggar's hat to stop him from following him down the street whining. If you coundn't see the condescending nature of his posts, well, I guess your reading comprehension needs a little work as well. (Hello, Mc Fly *knock knock* anybody home?)

Oh, and I just love this line.:
You're too stupid to get involved in any type of intellectual conversation with me. You don't want to start that war.Is that your final answer? Well, let's just let our posts speak for themselves, shall we? Everything after that simply points to your own unconcious admission of inadequacy, but I'll leave that for others to read into it what they choose.

As for getting involved in an intellectual conversation with you? Why would I even bother? I tried to talk to you like you were worthy of my time but rather than listen, or even question the answer you obviously didn't understand, you demanded a yes or no answer. Who the F*** do you think you are to demand anything from anyone here?

Well. so much for your "intellectual abilities". From your showing on your posts here, I wouldn't be bragging about my intellectual prowess if I were you. I'd be surprised if you have enough mental capacity to remember to zip up your fly when leaving the mens room. Heck, I would be more evenly matched talking to my grandson, and he's only ten and, most likely, would surpass you on a maturity level as well. Hre doesn't need to resort to strings of asterisks to express himself.

And, if you're a "real" man, then this world is truly in dire straits. Real men don't whine, try to blame their own shortcomings on others and owe up to it when they make a mistake. So far, you're three for three. ...and in public, for the whole world to see. Proud of yourself?

...try again when you finish with puberty.

[Dusty Chalk]

To Ericl, thank you! The rest of yall, **** YOU! Yall can all kiss my ass!

TommyNo, thanks.

I recommend decaf. Or perhaps rehab.

[emorphien]

Let me tell you something Markw, if you don't like my posts, then why don't you take a ****ing hike! I don't recall asking you for ****. You're too stupid to get involved in any type of intellectual conversation with me. You don't want to start that war. Besides if you are so ****ing special, then you must have a problem even getting it up, or else you wouldn't spend your time on here dreaming up **** to make up where you lack. If you have a problem with your personal life because you're too damn stupid to know the difference between someone who is a real man, than I suggest you take your ass to a gay bar and get you some satifaction there. **** you and and your suggestions.

Tommy
How old are you, Tommy?

[Dusty Chalk]

He claims to be married, but I begin to harbor doubts...it was probably a present from his mother...

[jrhymeammo]

I like this kid Morpheus77. Just added him to my BuddyList. But to make room, I had to de-buddy Tony340....

This thread is kinda fun.

I`ve been wanting to say this for the longest time..

**** YOU EVERYBODY!!!!
hey that felt pretty good.:cornut: Except for you M77, you dont deserve my ****ing.


JRA

[tin ear]

You're too stupid to get involved in any type of intellectual conversation with me.
:rolleyes5: :sleep:

[Daedilus]

I love the smell of napalm in the forum! You know, one time we had a thread bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked in. We didn't find one post, not one stinkin' flame post. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole thread. Smelled like... victory. Someday this forums gonna end...


(with apologies to Francis Ford Coppola)

:mad5:

[SlumpBuster]

Who gives a damn, I'm just looking for simple answers. Once again, thanks Slump! You rock! By the way, I like them apples!



Don't be so quick to thank me.

First, as to your question "Who gives a damn?" Well, we do. Alot of us put alot of money, time and effort into this hobby.

Second, we are not giving long winded sermons trying to sound smarter than the next guy. Rather, we are giving sophisticated an refined answers, because we have build or are building sophisticated and refinded systems. You are well on your way to building a vulgar and unrefined system with your four corners of Cerwin Vega. That is the anti-thesis of what most here seek.

Third, if you want simple answers when they are not appropriate, then save it for the high schoolers in the blue shirts at Best Buy.

Fourth, you were in such a rush to defend yourself that you effectively told me to kiss your ass after I had given you a good answer. So your "thanks" are tainted.

Fifth, re-read my answers after looking up the definition of "backhanded." I think you'll get a different meaning from many of them.

Finally, if your not here to learn, then why are you here? MarkW forgets more in a day about audio than you know. As far as your claims of intellectual prowress go, you can blow that one out your bagpipe because your posts are covered in the stink of anti-intellectualism.

[Morpheus77]

Well **** you to slump! You can kiss my ass as well! Twice at that! As far as Mark W is concerned, I just realized that you live in New Jersey!!!!! Well how about this. I will be in your neck of the woods in mid Feburary for a business meeting, so how about I come down there and kick your ass!! Then I will pull out my dick, and we can compare who is bigger than who! You'll think twice about your "mircoscopic" vision. Besides, is that the best you got? Why don't you bring your grandson, and I'll put my foot in his ass as well. I'll be attending a meeting in the Cannon House Office building for two days, after business, then we can take care of business. I will meet you anywhere, anytime after the meeting, you name the place!! I will put a lump on your head big enough for a calf to suck on, and then some! I knock your teeth so far down your throat, you'll have to drop your pants to smile! You name the time and place, and I will be there. Now what's it going to be??

Tommy

[emorphien]

I got it, he's a professional troll!

[Dusty Chalk]

Well **** you to slump! You can kiss my ass as well! Twice at that! As far as Mark W is concerned, I just realized that you live in New Jersey!!!!! Well how about this. I will be in your neck of the woods in mid Feburary for a business meeting, so how about I come down there and kick your ass!! Then I will pull out my dick, and we can compare who is bigger than who! You'll think twice about your "mircoscopic" vision. Besides, is that the best you got? Why don't you bring your grandson, and I'll put my foot in his ass as well. I'll be attending a meeting in the Cannon House Office building for two days, after business, then we can take care of business. I will meet you anywhere, anytime after the meeting, you name the place!! I will put a lump on your head big enough for a calf to suck on, and then some! I knock your teeth so far down your throat, you'll have to drop your pants to smile! You name the time and place, and I will be there. Now what's it going to be??

TommyYou're right, I can't match your intellectual discussion.

[markw]

Why don't you bring your grandson, and I'll put my foot in his ass as well.Riiight. Wotta man. Promising to beat up a ten year old kid...

Do you really think anyone would believe a grown man would make a statement like that?


Besides, is that the best you got?No, but why should I waste my "A" material stuff on you. I don't need to. You obviously don't even understand this subtle stuff. ...everyone else seems to, though.

Enjoy stewing in your festering anger, kid. Keep it up. It'll eat you up from the inside.

In the meantime, enjoy your holiday. Have some Cardenal Mendoza and chill out, if you're old enough.

[GMichael]

Well **** you to slump! You can kiss my ass as well! Twice at that! As far as Mark W is concerned, I just realized that you live in New Jersey!!!!! Well how about this. I will be in your neck of the woods in mid Feburary for a business meeting, so how about I come down there and kick your ass!! Then I will pull out my dick, and we can compare who is bigger than who! You'll think twice about your "mircoscopic" vision. Besides, is that the best you got? Why don't you bring your grandson, and I'll put my foot in his ass as well. I'll be attending a meeting in the Cannon House Office building for two days, after business, then we can take care of business. I will meet you anywhere, anytime after the meeting, you name the place!! I will put a lump on your head big enough for a calf to suck on, and then some! I knock your teeth so far down your throat, you'll have to drop your pants to smile! You name the time and place, and I will be there. Now what's it going to be??

Tommy

Serious meltdown here folks. You should just have your mommy bake you some more cookies. It will make you feel better in time for Christmas.

I'm no lawyer, but my guess is you could get in a lot of trouble for putting threats in writing over the internet. Even if you are only 17.

Thanks for joining our board and making us laugh for a while. But I don't think you'll be here for 10 seconds past the first time a mod reads this drivle. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Merry Christmas.

[SlumpBuster]

I will be in your neck of the woods in mid Feburary for a business meeting

Ladyboy convention? You seem awfully obsessed with d!cks and @ss?!?

[Morpheus77]

I will find out my lay over schedule in a few weeks, and I'll let you know just how much time I will have after my meeting before I catch my plane back. Last time I had about five hours before my departure back, so I'm assuming I will have about that much time again. Although last time was in Kansas City, MO, so it may be different this time. Either way, I will let you know. Hell, I will even give you the flight number, arrival time, etc. All I ask in return, is to not meet me at the Cannon House Office Building making any type of scene. That's shouldn't be asking too much, I would think you would at the very least have that much respect. Then, I will give you a chance to own up to all that bull**** you talked, and then we'll see just how tough you think you are. Get yourself ready for ass whoopin! I'm coming down there and I'm going to put something on you that max factor can't take off! I'll give you the time in a few weeks, you just give me the place. Somewhere that's not going to attract a lot of attention. I'm looking so foward to it!!

Tommy

[GMichael]

And I thought I was simple.

[emorphien]

I will find out my lay over schedule in a few weeks, and I'll let you know just how much time I will have after my meeting before I catch my plane back. Last time I had about five hours before my departure back, so I'm assuming I will have about that much time again. Although last time was in Kansas City, MO, so it may be different this time. Either way, I will let you know. Hell, I will even give you the flight number, arrival time, etc. All I ask in return, is to not meet me at the Cannon House Office Building making any type of scene. That's shouldn't be asking too much, I would think you would at the very least have that much respect. Then, I will give you a chance to own up to all that bull**** you talked, and then we'll see just how tough you think you are. Get yourself ready for ass whoopin! I'm coming down there and I'm going to put something on you that max factor can't take off! I'll give you the time in a few weeks, you just give me the place. Somewhere that's not going to attract a lot of attention. I'm looking so foward to it!!

TommyAnd a Merry Christmas to you too, ya psycho!

[Carl Reid]

LET THE SLAUGHTERING BEGIN!!!

Oh wait... WTF? This is not Fight Club...

Gentleman, can we please get back to discussing Audio?

And why haven't the mods deleted this thread yet?

Anyway, Merry Christmas everybody!!!

[markw]

I would think you would at the very least have that much respect.Sorry, you aren't worthy of my respect. In case you can't tell, you lost that a long, long time ago. And, for each and every new post you make, you lose even more, and not just from me.

Now, quit obsessing, drop it and have a merry one .;)

[jrhymeammo]

Morpheus77,

you know what sucks for you? Alot of regulars here wont be giving you audio related advice anymore, and we have alot of great members here with a crap load of knowledge. I guess you can always change your moniker, but.............

JRA

[Dusty Chalk]

I will find out my lay over schedule in a few weeks, and I'll let you know just how much time I will have after my meeting before I catch my plane back. Last time I had about five hours before my departure back, so I'm assuming I will have about that much time again. Although last time was in Kansas City, MO, so it may be different this time. Either way, I will let you know. Hell, I will even give you the flight number, arrival time, etc. All I ask in return, is to not meet me at the Cannon House Office Building making any type of scene. That's shouldn't be asking too much, I would think you would at the very least have that much respect. Then, I will give you a chance to own up to all that bull**** you talked, and then we'll see just how tough you think you are. Get yourself ready for ass whoopin! I'm coming down there and I'm going to put something on you that max factor can't take off! I'll give you the time in a few weeks, you just give me the place. Somewhere that's not going to attract a lot of attention. I'm looking so foward to it!!Oh yeah (slaps self on forehead), that makes perfect sense. He wouldn't want to do anything to endanger your precious career, he should just walk into a theoretical asswhoopin'.

Hey, let me guess -- you're a PR man? Marketing? Advertising? C'mon, it's gotta be something with a lot of interaction with customers, it's got to be.

I'm serious about the decaf/rehab -- you're going to have a stroke or a heart attack if you keep this up.

Oh, but if you do, please post here while you're having it.