Video upconverting A/V receiver?? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Video upconverting A/V receiver??



nosmatt
12-12-2006, 01:02 PM
hello, first post here......



I am looking for an upconverting a/v receiver to replace my aging pioneer unit (~7 years old)


i am adding a samsung 56" DLP 1080p set to the house, but do not want to upgrade my dish standard service to hd programming and all the accosiated fees and whatnot. I have read that the standard dish box can be upconverted through certain receivers to 720p or even 1080i and it helps tremendously with the picture quality on the newer tv's when not in hd (is this true?)

would also like to use only an HDMI connection to the set, if that is even possible.

ohh, and budget is a concern (say 400-600??)

thanks!


matt

elapsed
12-12-2006, 04:48 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Unfortunately I'm not aware of any receivers capable of upconverting to 720p or 1080i within your budget. At most you will find a receiver that is capable of upconverting from Component to HDMI, but this won't provide you with any increase in picture quality.

You may want to search Videogon for a DVDO video processor, there are plenty of older models within your budget. :)

N. Abstentia
12-13-2006, 04:27 AM
Yeah I wouldn't expect much of a quality upgrade, but the ease of using one cable is nice.

nosmatt
12-13-2006, 08:44 AM
thanks for the replies!


this is the one i have found, but by reading the reviews, it may not do what it is advertised to????

Onkyo TX-SR674 7.1 Channel Up-Converting A/V Receiver
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000H9C8KO/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8121190-0422423?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3LJ5WMKNRFKQS&v=glance

im still looking.......

markw
12-13-2006, 09:28 AM
But, what it says it does and what you want it to do are two different things entirely.


this is the one i have found, but by reading the reviews, it may not do what it is advertised to????

Onkyo TX-SR674 7.1 Channel Up-Converting A/V Receiver
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000H9C8KO/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8121190-0422423?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3LJ5WMKNRFKQS&v=glanceAll it promises is that it will take a (yellow plug) composite video input and send it out as a (mini-din) S-video output. Both of these can handle a resolution of 480, not 720 or 1080.

The tech blurb on the site you provided is quite ambigious on how far "up" they will upconvert the signal. When they say "Converts incoming composite, S-Video signals (like a VCR to S-Video equipped TV), and component signals all the way to HDMI on most models.", I wonder what they mean by those last three words?

I don't see where it says it will "upconvert" the resolution of the video signal. I think the proper term for what you are thinking about is "upscaling". ...totally different creature.

But, even if it did, don't get your hopes up. Remember, it starts out as 480. Where do you expect those extra lines come from? You got Criss Angel workin' for you?

An "upscaled" picture, while somewhat better in some instances, is no match for one that resulted from a signal with a higher native resolution. To call it "tremendous" is a bit of a stretch. Remember, if you really want lobster, you have to pay for real lobster. Surimi just may not cut it.

Unless you get a "real" hi-def signal, don't waste your money on this set. Ya know, there generally ARE free hi-def signals sent over the air (OTA), assuming you have some nearby stations, an antenna, and an ATSC tuner in the TV.

N. Abstentia
12-13-2006, 12:18 PM
I've always understood that 'upcoverting' the signal has more to do with making the output resolution match your display.

For instance if you have a 720 native display, upconverting 480 and lower signals to match 720 will make them look better than displaying 480 on a 720 set...make sense? I guess in other words it improves quality simply by matching it to your display and not by adding resolution.

nosmatt
12-13-2006, 01:36 PM
I've always understood that 'upcoverting' the signal has more to do with making the output resolution match your display.

For instance if you have a 720 native display, upconverting 480 and lower signals to match 720 will make them look better than displaying 480 on a 720 set...make sense? I guess in other words it improves quality simply by matching it to your display and not by adding resolution.

exactly what i was trying to get accross. im not expecting my 480i signal from dish to look like it was native 1080i.... but, i would like to get the picture improved over running 480i on a 1080p capable set. eventually everything will be upgraded around the set (i.e. dish hd programming, hd-dvd etc)


Mark, your reply was very helpfull, thank you.


as for over the air high def, no go.. i live in the mountains, not even radio stations come in, and digital cable is not available.

nosmatt
12-13-2006, 01:46 PM
and another thought....... why do "upscaling" dvd players exist? (not trying to sound rude at all).

if they take a 480i disk, and upconvert it to 720p or 1080i, well, that's all i want to do, with my dish ;)


once again, thanks for the help, as it says by my user name, i am a newb!

markw
12-13-2006, 04:16 PM
and another thought....... why do "upscaling" dvd players exist? (not trying to sound rude at all)They do exist. Remember, all TV's scale incoming signalds to their native resolution. if the scaler in the DVD unit is better than the one in the TV, it might result in somewhat of an improvement.


if they take a 480i disk, and upconvert it to 720p or 1080i, well, that's all i want to do, with my dish ;)I hear ya, but I can't think of any available standalone units.

Read the blurb on this unit in full and you'll notice it may allow a signal from a component or S-video to be output on an HDMI cable, but nowhere does it promises any upscaling properties. Reread this blurb, directly from their website:

"Converts incoming composite, S-Video signals (like a VCR to S-Video equipped TV), and component signals all the way to HDMI on most models."

Please note he careful choice of the word "convert", not "upconvert". There's a world of difference when leave off those first two letters. Nor are there any mentions of 480, 720 or 1080 anywhere in t he vicinity of that statement.

What outputs does your box offer? I'm fairly sure you need at least component cables for the higher resolutions. My cable dox does a wondrous picture at 1080i with component cables.

As for the DVD player, you're probably running component cables directly to the TV. At least that way you should be able to use that 3:2 pulldown and 480p, if you scour your manuals.

And NA, I think this "conversion/upconversion" thing is more of an issue of semantics here and, in this case, I'm very anti-semantic.

enjoy, matt. I'nm not out to be a killjoy, although I'm good at it. I just want you to know exactly what you're buying and not be too disappointesd if it doesn't do it.

blackraven
12-13-2006, 05:29 PM
Check out the Oppo DV-981HD dvd player. It upscales to 1080P.
Also, yamaha makes some upcoverting receivers. 2400,2500 and 2600 models I beleive. But these only up convert to component video.

Daedilus
12-13-2006, 07:17 PM
Whoa there! Nuff of that!

Video "upscaling" will change the format of your image, it changes its border limits and adds in lines of synthetic resolution to make it fit the display qualities of your "precision viewing apparatus" aka TV.

This is helpful as many tv sets will not display 480i resolution input over thier HDMI inputs.... watching HD, xbox etc you have lovely throughput, flop over to a VCR, or IPOD and poof, black screen, no image.

What it will not do, and never was intended to do, is make a 480i image look better than its original format. fall back on the old basic computer language term GIGO.. garbage in, garbage out. In fact you will find the re-processed 480i image actually looks worse than its original format.

Reason being it has now been stetched, amplified, mulled over, lines and color inserted... and to make matters worse the image wasnt *pure* to begin with, there was noise, grain, static, possibly even humbar (from mountain bounce) in the original signal.

All of that just went through your processor and was misinterpereted as part of the original image, thus amplified and expanded upon.

Not knwoing your current televison make and model, i will say in general your best bet at this point for clearest image is to go with a high quality 4x3 tube television and a good composite video output... the wonderful thing about old tech is we have already worked all the bugs out and gotten everything as good as it can be given the available technology.

if you already have a 16x9 flatscreen, your kinda doomed until you can get an HD source. I would say run in native 4x3 even then, except for the fact that the black sidebars wll burn into your screen over time on a plasma... if you have an LCD its not prone to burning, but the screen will take a different hue under the cold black areas than the hot active areas...

So best to just set your default to stretch to full aspect until such time as you are ready to go HD.

nosmatt
12-14-2006, 07:50 AM
wow, a wealth of info!


thank you to all who responded.

the TV in question, Samsung HL-S5686W.

i do see in the extremely at the edge of my budget price, another receiver choice.......
the Pioneer VSX-82TXS.
a blurb.......
A Faroudja DCDiŽ HD Video Scaler even converts lower-resolution video signals up to 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolutions through this receiver's HDMI output, so you can enjoy just about any content in the higher native resolution of your HDTV or monitor.
"

but, it is sounding like a waste of time/money to purchase one of the upscaling a/v receivers ???

SO CORNFUSED..............

Daedilus
12-14-2006, 10:32 AM
The operative phrase in that catch line is :


converts lower-resolution video signals up to 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolutions through this receiver's HDMI output, so you can enjoy just about any content in the higher native resolution of your HDTV or monitor.


Meaning allowing you to see it on your TV, not improving the picture quality. Again i mention that not all tv's will display lower resolutions via thier HDMI input. Hense converting the lower resolution to a higher one allows you to see it, resized and displayed to fit, but not improved.

Edit, had your final goal confused with another poster..

If you want ED and HD sources, you are going to have to purchase them, cant turn your 480i serivce into an HD /ED service with just an equipment purchase, would be nice, cant be done.

you will have to spring for either HD cable, HD satelite, or HD/dvd... the day anyone can turn their system into HD from native SD sources with an equipment purchase is the day they will stop filming HD, no money in it.