Headphone amp and Shure e2c [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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JeffKnob
12-07-2006, 03:54 PM
I have a 2nd Gen Ipod Nano with Shure e2c headphones. I have noticed some headphone amps on ebay like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Micro-Cmoy-headphone-amp-Opamp2132-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ250058403008QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 40138QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Would something like this improve or change my sound in anyway? I realize it would enable the sound to be louder but that isn't necessary for me. I would just like to know if it would improve what my e2c's can do.

Thanks!

Jack in Wilmington
12-07-2006, 05:44 PM
Hey Jeff,
I didn't notice a big difference when I plugged my e2c's into my headphone amp. I bought the Musical Fidelity XCan headphone amp to drive my Sennheiser HD600. Plus my XCan is wired into my CD player and the short cord on the e2c's doesn't make for a comfortable sitting situation.

Dusty Chalk
12-07-2006, 11:10 PM
Yes, the Shure's definitely benefit from quality amplification (I know because I have a pair). I would skip the "mint", though, and go straight to something better like one of Headroom's amps. Although I found a bigger benefit by putting mine in a drawer and buying a pair of Etymotics (ER-6i's, in my case). Then I didn't even need an amplifier.

JeffKnob
12-08-2006, 03:12 PM
Yes, the Shure's definitely benefit from quality amplification (I know because I have a pair). I would skip the "mint", though, and go straight to something better like one of Headroom's amps. Although I found a bigger benefit by putting mine in a drawer and buying a pair of Etymotics (ER-6i's, in my case). Then I didn't even need an amplifier.

There are always better things but would the "mint" even improve my sound?

Dusty Chalk
12-09-2006, 12:01 AM
There are always better things but would the "mint" even improve my sound?I had a mint, and before it started shorting out, it did sound a little better (than straight out of the headphone jack of my Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3), but I'm just glad I got mine for free.

Fergymunster
12-12-2006, 05:58 PM
I had a mint, and before it started shorting out, it did sound a little better (than straight out of the headphone jack of my Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3), but I'm just glad I got mine for free.
Hey Dusty,Whats your take on the Shure E4c in ear headphones.I got a pair for my sister for Christmas.

Dusty Chalk
12-13-2006, 03:54 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that one -- only the E2c's.

Fergymunster
12-13-2006, 09:02 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that one -- only the E2c's.
I was going to get those in the first place but chose the more expensive ones.She's going to be using them with an I-pod.Are the e2c's good with I-pods as I'm not an in ear headphone guy.Thanks

Dusty Chalk
12-13-2006, 12:21 PM
I didn't like them without an amp. Be prepared to get her an amp for her birthday or next Christmas.

That said, they sounded fine to me until I heard them with an amp. Just a little rolled off in the frequency extremes. I listen to music, not my equipment. Until something (a fault) sticks out, then I have to fix it.

I should also mention that my MP3 player was not an iPod -- but I really don't think that matters, as the iPod is not any better in the headphone amp than any other MP3 player, but in the interest of full disclosure...

Fergymunster
12-13-2006, 01:42 PM
I didn't like them without an amp. Be prepared to get her an amp for her birthday or next Christmas.

That said, they sounded fine to me until I heard them with an amp. Just a little rolled off in the frequency extremes. I listen to music, not my equipment. Until something (a fault) sticks out, then I have to fix it.

I should also mention that my MP3 player was not an iPod -- but I really don't think that matters, as the iPod is not any better in the headphone amp than any other MP3 player, but in the interest of full disclosure...
The headphones don't come with an 1/4 terminal to plug into an amp.Do they make adapters?

Dusty Chalk
12-14-2006, 02:35 AM
The headphones don't come with an 1/4 terminal to plug into an amp.Do they make adapters?Yeah, but they also make portable amps, and most of them have 1/8" plugs. See, for example, the Headroom (http://www.headphone.com/) one (probably the current best entry level amp).

Fergymunster
12-14-2006, 08:20 AM
Yeah, but they also make portable amps, and most of them have 1/8" plugs. See, for example, the Headroom (http://www.headphone.com/) one (probably the current best entry level amp).
Thanks,I'm considering the Headroom Bithead or the Headroom Airhead.

Capeman
01-05-2007, 02:38 AM
Does anyone have any experience with the headroom portable amps, will they improve my Etymotic ER4P from my portable cd player or ipod???

I appreciate any feedback

emorphien
01-05-2007, 09:47 AM
I can't imagine the E2cs really needing a headphone amp. One they're not the most refined headphone (but a bargain for what they give you and another they're quite easy to drive in my experience. I use my old MP3 player at about 1/3 power and my new one around 1/4 power and that's loud enough for my E2cs. I'm not sure they'd gain enough to warrant the extra bulk.

ericl
01-05-2007, 11:03 AM
One thing you have to think about when adding a headphone amp to an MP3 player, is that it the signal is already passing through the MP3 player's headphone circuitry. In my experience, "interference" from this circuitry can negate any improvement of an external headphone amp.

To really hear a benefit you need to use a line-level output, undisturbed by the MP3P's headphone circuitry. For that you need to use the docking port and another adapter. With the Shure e2c's (i have them too). I would just stick with the iPod and the e2c, it's a nice elegant combo.

Dusty Chalk
01-05-2007, 12:56 PM
I completely disagree. I have a pair of Shure e2c's, and they definitely improved with an amp -- a measly homemade "mint".

I've also heard several of the Headroom line, albeit not their most entry level amps (bithead, airhead, &c. -- I think what I heard was the Micro?), and yes, they are certainly up to the task.

ericl
01-05-2007, 01:11 PM
I completely disagree. I have a pair of Shure e2c's, and they definitely improved with an amp -- a measly homemade "mint".

I've also heard several of the Headroom line, albeit not their most entry level amps (bithead, airhead, &c. -- I think what I heard was the Micro?), and yes, they are certainly up to the task.
what are you plugging the amp into? an iPod's headphone output? done this way, i am just not impressed. doesn't seem to be worth it to me. through the ipod's line out, it's a different story for me.

Dusty Chalk
01-05-2007, 01:33 PM
what are you plugging the amp into? an iPod's headphone output? done this way, i am just not impressed. doesn't seem to be worth it to me. through the ipod's line out, it's a different story for me.I mixed up two different experiences -- listening to the Shure e2c's, and listening to Headroom's amps, so my answer differs, based on which one you were asking about. When I listened to my Shure e2c's with an amp vs. without an amp, I was listening (a) to a Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3, and (b) using a measly "mint" amp. I tried straight out of the headphone jack, and with the amp both out of the headphone jack (only briefly) and out of the line out. The improvement was addicting. Once I heard it properly amped, I did not want to go back. I did, and it sucked. I really can't stress enough how badly the Shure e2c sounded unamped (straight out of the headphone jack).

When we were listening to Headroom amps, I was immediately sold -- I will eventually get one. I think we were listening to an iPod, but we could have been listening to a much nicer source, I don't remember (I've heard many Headroom products over the years, in a variety of circumstances, and they just keep getting better and better). And I think we were listening to Grados, not Shures, since we were passing them around. We were comparing different amps, and I remember being pretty happy with Headamp's offering as well (AE1?). There was a third that was adequate but lackluster -- no I don't remember the brand, I only remember being sold on the Headroom.

Fritz
01-23-2007, 12:26 PM
I cant imagine there is too much of a difference, considering MP3s sound crappy to begin with, unless you are using lossless compression. What's the sonic difference between the headphone out and the amp? Is it possible to describe?

Could anyone actually find out what the headphone circuitry in the ipod is, and a writeup of specifications for it? I can soon, I have a Nano 1st gen opened, but I'm too lazy at the moment so I'll do it later.

Dusty Chalk
01-24-2007, 04:06 AM
I cant imagine there is too much of a difference, considering MP3s sound crappy to begin with, unless you are using lossless compression. What's the sonic difference between the headphone out and the amp? Is it possible to describe?More dynamic, extended frequency response in both directions, and the background sounded blacker.

I should also mention that I'm not much of a MP3 naysayer -- I don't mind MP3s. Most of mine are ripped from mine own CDs, using LAME alt-preset standard. (I think...I don't know how to read options in EAC, but mine look like this:
%l--alt-preset 128%l%h--alt-preset standard%h %s %d -- does that even make any sense? And then I have it set to high quality, which I think triggers the %h option.)

That said, I disagree that distortion == distortion. There is analog distortion, there is the deliberate distortion introduced by dither, and there is the distortion as a result of compressing MP3's, and I think they all sound different, and are neither mutually exclusive nor accumulative. I still think one ought to try to get the best sound possible, even if one listens to "crappy" MP3s.

Fritz
01-24-2007, 06:48 AM
I still think one ought to try to get the best sound possible, even if one listens to "crappy" MP3s.

Completely agree with you on that. Thats why I got the e3g's. The only issue for me is that I need the least amount of stuff for carrying around. I use MP3's whenever I can cause I'm familiar with them, and I think they sound just fine for the most part.
Thanks for the description too.

audio_dude
01-26-2007, 08:42 PM
Fritz, the e3g's are gaming 'phones, with upped bass... so not a flat freq. chart...

oh well. I don't use MP3's, on my iPod, I use apple lossless, works great!

Fritz
02-07-2007, 11:13 AM
OK, I've done some research, and in the course of concluding that I'm going to try out Sennheiser's HD580's, I realized what the difference must be with a headphone amp.

First of all, the sound will obviously be louder. I dont know about a reduced noise floor, in fact I think that with the additional electronics of the amp added to the signal path, the signal/noise ratio will be higher(not much probably so it doesnt really even matter I guess). I think the real difference is that the amp is capable of producing enough power to reproduce the low frequencies without trouble, in turn reducing all the other bad effects that come with overdriving an amp(harmonics, distortion).

If youre wondering, I'm going to try building a CMoy headphone amp (http://www.headwize.com/projects/showproj.php?file=cmoy2_prj.htm), and see how it goes. I'm also going to try to start using lossless compression! Oh, I'm so excited:biggrin5:

Dusty Chalk
02-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Amazon has them on sale right now for US$125...that's a pretty dang good deal...

Fritz
02-09-2007, 09:08 AM
Dusty Chalk, have you heard (or heard of) the CMoy amp before? What are your thoughts on it?

ps. I forgot to specify that for listening at least with the HD580's and a headphone amp, my goal is not 'good' sound, but an accurate reproduction of the recording - these are meant for when I record stuff, so that I have predictable control over the sound of the recording

Dusty Chalk
02-09-2007, 11:39 AM
I have very little experience with it. That's why I usually clam up. But I wouldn't recommend getting one that you can't return, as I've heard some crappy entry level amps.

You should still get an amp of some sort, the HD580 does get ...erm... less laid back (which I associate with more accurate) -- it requires less effort to hear details.

But the other thing you should do is practice listening. I use Sony MDR-7506/-V6's for monitoring, mostly because I am familiar with what it will do to the sounds that I record. Familiarity with the sound signature of your headphones is key. Listen to a recording that you're familiar with on speakers that you're familiar with, then listen to it on your headphones. Repeat to taste.

Fritz
02-09-2007, 08:52 PM
sounds like a plan! I've been listening to these non-stop for hours on end since I got them, so I'm getting familiar with their 'sound'. Also letting them break-in. I also just thought and wanted to mention that the reviews for the HD580 (and the e3g as well) vary a great deal, most people like the sound, but they differ in how they describe the details. Some people would say the 580 is too laid back, then I saw some saying that it was too forward or harsh. Maybe the music they listen to regularly was actually recorded 'too laid back' or 'too harsh' for thier liking, but their previous systems would compensate. It kindof makes it difficult to find what I want which is accuracy, not something that will sound good on just what I listen to. I dont know if I'm being clear. I think I have a valid point, but its hard to explain...