Cartridge advice please.

[StanleyMuso]

I have an old belt driven TT bought about 1980 which has its original Ortofon cart (don't remember the model number). I want to reconnect the TT to my system over the Christmas hols and resurrect my still extensive vinyle collection, and perhaps start transferring to CD. I already bought a replacement belt, and had the stylus checked.

My question. Does any one know how cartridges age? Is there anything in the mechanism which is likely to stiffen up or get loose? Will it still perform the same as when I bought it, or should I be looking for a new one? Its a moving magnet type.

Advice would be much appreciated.

[royphil345]

The only thing to worry about is that the rubber suspensions in stylus assemblies tend to harden over time, causing poor tracking. There are no other moving parts in a MM cartridge. You may still be able to get a new stylus for your cartridge.

Although... There are very tiny wires inside that can corrode eventually. Cartridges last a good, long time. 1980 is getting to be 27 years ago, however... Can you believe it ???... LOL... How the turntable was stored might be the deciding factor here. If it spent any time in a garage, attic, humid basement... I'd be tempted to replace the cartridge.

[basite]

if you used it alot before back then, you should be best replacing them, when it's a good cart, only replace the stylus (if it's still available), when it was something cheap and bad, maybe completely replace the cart by a new (an maybe a better one).
the rubber suspension is the only thing aging when not used, but the needle itselves wears out when used alot.

[StanleyMuso]

Of course, before the advent of the CD, the TT was my main playback device. However, the cart I used was a better quality Garrott Brothers P77 with a Shibata stylus, until our cat took an unhealthy interest in a playing record and pounced onto the TT. Needless to say, both the record and the stylus were wrecked. The Ortofon was kept as a spare and received very little playing time. The TT itself, although not used now for many years, was kept on a shelf near the rest of the hi-fi gear so it has not been exposed to harsh storage conditions. I always keep meaning to reactivate it but somehow what with work and family commitments my hobby seems to play second fiddle to everything else in life. I'm really looking forward to the Christmas break and plan to spin those old black disks again.

[JohnMichael]

The nice thing about Ortofon is you can probaly replace the stylus easily but it sounds like it might be in good shape since you had it checked out. royphil345 is correct that the suspension is what you should be concerned about. A nice feature of the Ortofon OM cartridges is when you buy a new stylus of course the suspension is new and there is a new magnet in the assembly. Magnets can lose strength over time and you could have lower output from the cartridge.

[dean_martin]

I had a Dual TT w/a cart made for Dual by Ortofon from the early 80s. Before I got it in 2000, it had been used to record LPs to cassette then placed in storage. I had no problems with the cart or stylus. The TT broke down well before the end of the cart's life. I've been trying to figure out how to remove the cart and mount it on another arm.

[JoeE SP9]

The tonearm itself determines what kind of cartridge is best suited for a given TT. If you have one of those S shaped arms that were prevalent on Japanese TT's you will probably get better results with a lower compliance cartridge. A high output moving coil such as Sumiko Blue Point or Special. A Grado might work well if you don't have a hum problem with it. If you have a MC input on your receiver/preamp the Denon DL-103 is an excellent performer. If you have a less massive arm (generally straight) a higher compliance cartridge such as a Shure would mate better with it.:idea:

[JohnMichael]

I had a Dual TT w/a cart made for Dual by Ortofon from the early 80s. Before I got it in 2000, it had been used to record LPs to cassette then placed in storage. I had no problems with the cart or stylus. The TT broke down well before the end of the cart's life. I've been trying to figure out how to remove the cart and mount it on another arm.



Some older Dual ttables had a mounting plate that held the cartridge. You had to push the finger lift back towards the headshell and the plate would be released. Later Duals had removeable head shells with standard mounting.

[StanleyMuso]

The tonearm itself determines what kind of cartridge is best suited for a given TT. If you have one of those S shaped arms that were prevalent on Japanese TT's you will probably get better results with a lower compliance cartridge. A high output moving coil such as Sumiko Blue Point or Special. A Grado might work well if you don't have a hum problem with it. If you have a MC input on your receiver/preamp the Denon DL-103 is an excellent performer. If you have a less massive arm (generally straight) a higher compliance cartridge such as a Shure would mate better with it.:idea:

(Harksound by CEC) and has a straight black arm. The cartridge is mounted in a shell which is easily removable from the arm, so it was easy to swap cartridges. The recommend tracking force for the cart I used at the time was only 1.5 gms. Don't remember what it was for the Ortofon. My preamp (Rotel) allows for switching between MM & MC, so I'm not averse to trying an MC. The only thing that put me off in the past was the fact that MC carts were a lot more expensive than MM. I believe there are now some quite affordable moving coil cartridges on the market these days? I wonder if they are any good?

[JoeE SP9]

For $229 the Denon DL-103 (low output) is a good place to start. It's been around for a long time. There are lots of high output MC carts at reasonable prices. In my experience the lower output models sound better.:idea:

[royphil345]

I love my 103. They are low compliance, however. Recommended for a high mass arm. Many like the Audio Technica AT-OC9ML/II in lighter arms. http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/cartridges/8e67b15a2a48de4e/index.html Not quite as "lush" sounding as the 103. Recommended load is 20 ohms, while the loading on many basic MM / MC phono stages is fixed at around 100 ohms. The Denon 301 is said to sound similar and may work out better with a 100 ohm load.

103 can be had for $150.00 from William Thakker on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-Denon-DL-103-MC-cartridge-BRAND-NEW-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ150067381829QQihZ005QQcategoryZ64620Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quite a bargain.

Best price I've seen on the Denon 301 is at Audio Cubes II in Japan where I bought my DL-103R for the same price. http://www.audiocubes2.com/category/Vinyl_Cartridges/product/Denon_DL-301II_Moving_Coil_Cartridge.html

[emorphien]

I don't have the 103, I have the Denon DL-110 which I purchased from William Thakker on eBay. I've been very happy with it.

[Feanor]

I don't have the 103, I have the Denon DL-110 which I purchased from William Thakker on eBay. I've been very happy with it.

I believe the DL-110 is a high output MC, correct? Glad to hear you're please with it.

I gather that an MC -- or at least low compliance cartridges -- are good with higher mass tonearms such as the one on my Technics SL-D2. Do you know whether the DL-110 is considered low compliance?

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Feanor,

Denon DL-110 has compliance of 8 and it weighs 4.8. I think it'll work well with your Technics. It really shouldnt bwe working as good as I hear on my Pro-Ject Tonearm(9.5g), but I couldnt be happier.. In my setup resonant frequency is around 15hz, but this thing tracks like a mo-fo. Maybe I should hear it on higher mass arms to be blown away.

this may help if you have exact figures.

http://www.audiotic.com/T&TSetup/T&TSetupFS.htm

[Feanor]

Hey Feanor,

Denon DL-110 has compliance of 8 and it weighs 4.8. I think it'll work well with your Technics. It really shouldnt bwe working as good as I hear on my Pro-Ject Tonearm(9.5g), but I couldnt be happier.. In my setup resonant frequency is around 15hz, but this thing tracks like a mo-fo. Maybe I should hear it on higher mass arms to be blown away.

this may help if you have exact figures.

http://www.audiotic.com/T&TSetup/T&TSetupFS.htm

Thanks, that looks like a great reference, assuming one can get the correct info for one's equipment.

Regarding the DL-110, it has a compliance of "8" as you say; that is, 8 x10-4 cm/dyne according to Denon's Japan web site; (couldn't find it anywhere else). Compared to the DL-103 compliance of 5x10-6 cm/dyne, it is almost 100 times higher!! To feed the formula at the link, the DL-110 value would be 800mm/N. Can this be correct???

ADDENDUM:
OK: a compliance value of 8 x10-4 cm/dyne looks unreasonable. Assuming Denon's spec is a mis-type and the value is really 8 x10-6 cm/dyne, (i.e. 8 mm/N), things look a lot more reasonable. In fact assuming my Technics tonearm has an effective mass between 20 and 30 grams, the resonance range works out between 9 and 11.3 grams which is in the acceptable range per Audiotic's calculator.

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Feanor, I wouldnt think your tonearm is "massive" I think massive tonearms would like DV-507made by Dynavector.
Tonearm supplied on SL-1200 had effective ta mass of 12grams.. that's not including a headshells and others. The arm might be closer to 20.

DL-110 has compliance of 8 according to Acousticsounds catalog.

I would just type in:

8
4.8
15
5?
=11.299

From what I see, even if your tonearm+headshell is 35grams you are in a good shape.

[Feanor]

Hey Feanor, I wouldnt think your tonearm is "massive" I think massive tonearms would like DV-507made by Dynavector.
Tonearm supplied on SL-1200 had effective ta mass of 12grams.. that's not including a headshells and others. The arm might be closer to 20.

DL-110 has compliance of 8 according to Acousticsounds catalog.

I would just type in:

8
4.8
15
5?
=11.299

From what I see, even if your tonearm+headshell is 35grams you are in a good shape.

Thanks, yep. This what I was hoping. I got the info above from the Denon Japan web site but it's pretty certainly bogus.

That Accoustic Sounds cartridge comparison is a good reference too; thanks for that.

[StanleyMuso]

I've always found the technical aspects like compliance, tone arm mass, anti-skating setup etc etc rather confusing. Luckily my TT is rather simple, and has only two setting I can change - antiskating and tracking force. I wouldn't even know how to use those guages and protractors often referred to. However, I now realise I need to find out the mass of my arm to figure out what sort of cart is likely to match it. I'll have to rely on the knowhow of my dealer for this and hope he has an exchange policy if I don't like it. I don't have the funds to buy numerous carts just to find the one perfect one.

[jrhymeammo]

I've tried looking up your CEC TT, but never had any luck. The way you've described it, I would have to think you would benefit with a high compliance carts. But you would need to know who big of carts your arm can handle too....

JRA

[StanleyMuso]

I've tried looking up your CEC TT, but never had any luck. The way you've described it, I would have to think you would benefit with a high compliance carts. But you would need to know who big of carts your arm can handle too....

JRA

eg http://www.mrstylus.com/en/index.html?name=http://www.mrstylus.com/en/turntable/harksound/harksound-styli.htm=http://www.mrstylus.com/en/turntable/harksound/harksound-hs-610.htm

When I have the time I'll run a search with my model number. Perhaps I can find more specs. Can't check at the moment cause I'm not home.

[jrhymeammo]

Donty be afraid to use a cheap cartridge alignment tool. It's one of the best ways to treat your Mrs Wax. Dont have any Ms in my collection cuz i popped all of their cherrys....... WHAT!?!!?!

JRA