Processors?

[icarus]

I was looking at the classe website and they had listed a processor. reading up on it it came across to me to be quite similiar as an amp and preamp. Is this the case, and are they worth it. ??:idea:

here is the website i was looking at
http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/detail-ssp-600.htm

[JoeE SP9]

A processor is simply a surround processor preamp. There is no amp. You would team a processor with enough amplifiers to power your system. I use a lexicon processor with the front channel outputs going through a bypass on my preamp to the front power amps for all multi-channel sources. When playing 2 channel music I use only my preamp and my front channel speakers. This includes my sub woofers as I consider them to be part of my front channels. My preamp sounds better on 2 channel stereo than my processor does.:idea:

[icarus]

thanks for the answer joeE...

[Mr Peabody]

Classe' is well built quality gear. I've heard some older gear that sounded pretty good but I've heard a more recent all Classe' system driving B&W D series speakers snd I wouldn't have kept it for free, personal opinion and taste.

If you are looking for a processor, what price range? Arcam has a very good at $2,5k, I haven't heard the new model but I liked the Anthem at around $3k.

I don't know if it is YOUR perfect CD player but I have one for sale. What price are you shopping here?

[icarus]

haha i wish i could buy a CD player right now, don't quite have the cash yet. but for a price range im lookin mre around $1000 CND which is about 800 us ish...

[Feanor]

haha i wish i could buy a CD player right now, don't quite have the cash yet. but for a price range im lookin mre around $1000 CND which is about 800 us ish...

An M/C processor around your budget is the Outlaw 970 which is worth checking out ...

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/970.html
It's US$700.

Personally, I have been tempted to check out pre/pros even for stereo use because they have (1) a built-in DAC, (2) bass management or at least a subwoofer connection with a low-pass filter, and (3) often a built-in tuner; (I listen to lots of FM radio).

[minye]

A processor is simply a surround processor preamp. There is no amp. You would team a processor with enough amplifiers to power your system. I use a lexicon processor with the front channel outputs going through a bypass on my preamp to the front power amps for all multi-channel sources. When playing 2 channel music I use only my preamp and my front channel speakers. This includes my sub woofers as I consider them to be part of my front channels. My preamp sounds better on 2 channel stereo than my processor does.:idea:

JoeE, I got questions because I have the similar setup as yours. I use Lexicon DC2 with Bryston 4B for mains and Adcoms for other channels. Lexicon is awesome for HT and not bad for "2.1" music with sub pre-out. As I'd been curious about tube sound, and a stereo guy told me 2 channel is the way of listening music..., I bought a ARC LS2B tube preamp. I connect analog output of my CD to tube preamp. I think I get better mid and high, but the bass is much weaker without my power sub compared to Lexicon 2.1 way.

Can you give some suggestions? How do you connect your sub with your 2 channels system?

Your DAC for 2 channel is for sure better than the ones in your Lexicon, but what do you think of my Denon DVD5000 internal dac or Aragon D2A dac compared to the dac in my Lexicon DC2?

Thanks in advance

[JoeE SP9]

JoeE, I got questions because I have the similar setup as yours. I use Lexicon DC2 with Bryston 4B for mains and Adcoms for other channels. Lexicon is awesome for HT and not bad for "2.1" music with sub pre-out. As I'd been curious about tube sound, and a stereo guy told me 2 channel is the way of listening music..., I bought a ARC LS2B tube preamp. I connect analog output of my CD to tube preamp. I think I get better mid and high, but the bass is much weaker without my power sub compared to Lexicon 2.1 way.

Can you give some suggestions? How do you connect your sub with your 2 channels system?

Your DAC for 2 channel is for sure better than the ones in your Lexicon, but what do you think of my Denon DVD5000 internal dac or Aragon D2A dac compared to the dac in my Lexicon DC2?

Thanks in advance

I don't use the bass management software or hardware on my processor. I started with 2-channel and added MC capability so I had front channels that were already bi-amped. Full range signals are run to my front L&R. I use a Paradigm X-30 electronic crossover operating at 85Hz to feed my front ESL's (2 modified Dyna MK-III's) and the 2 12" sealed box subs (modified Hafler DH-200). My system is always bi-amped this way. I do just about the same thing with my surround speakers. Another X-30 operating at 100Hz feeds my rear ESL's (modified Hafler DH-200) and the dual channel woofer cabinet (modified Adcom GFA-545) that came with my Spectra's.

The Aragon D2A is probably better than the one in the Lexicon. I haven't tried my CP8's D2A with 2 channel sources. All my 2 channel sources are connected to my ARC SP-9 (Tape Decks, TT, Tuner and CD player/MSB D2A). The Lexicon only gets used with MC sources. I have straight 2-channel sound with 2-channel sources. In 2-channel mode nothing goes through my Lexicon. Although there are some who process 2-channel sound through their surround system, I'm not one of them. I've spent considerable time and money getting 2-channels to sound right. Buggering that up is not an option.
My next purchase will be a Tact unit to correct response and time irregularities.

BTW: I've been bi-amping for 12 years. It's the main reason why I always say there is no such thing as 2.1 stereo. Using .1 implies the source material was mixed and mastered with a separate LFE channel. This is not the case. Also 2 subs are definitely better than one.

[minye]

JoeE, Thanks for the input. Lots of useful information for me.

Your system is really a high-end and expensive solution. I started with HT and now want to step in to 2-channel for about 50/50. So I added the ARC LS2B tube preamp only for CD source and leave tuner, TV and DVD to Lexicon processor. One of my question was if I should use the subwoofer with my ARC preamp (2 channel part). If add, how to ? "Y" splitter doesn't work well for my system... Your solution is too pricy for me...:-)

One thing I am clear that you add powered subs to your system and looks on them as part of your 2-channel. You achieve this by using active x-overs and bi-amp. This is absolutely a better job.
For the "2.1 stereo" thing, I think it is just an expression that folks use to describe the effect or mode in their pre-pros which sends 2 channel signals to the mains as well as
low Hz signal to a power drived sub. ( how do you adjust the bass gain and know that is the "right" bass since your amp for sub may not be the same as mains'?)

[Mr Peabody]

How do you have the LS2 integrated into your system? The LS2 only have one output? Does your sub have 2 inputs one with crossover one without? I'd have thought the LS2 through Bryston would have good bass. Your sub may give more boom but listen for detail. If the LS2 does not have 2 outs the only way not to Y, would be to get another identical sub, one for each channel and set the menu on the Lexicon to "no sub" to send full frequency, including LFE to main L/R.

[minye]

How do you have the LS2 integrated into your system? The LS2 only have one output? Does your sub have 2 inputs one with crossover one without? I'd have thought the LS2 through Bryston would have good bass. Your sub may give more boom but listen for detail. If the LS2 does not have 2 outs the only way not to Y, would be to get another identical sub, one for each channel and set the menu on the Lexicon to "no sub" to send full frequency, including LFE to main L/R.

Peabody,

LS2B has both banlaced and RCA output. My Bryston has both inputs too. So on Bryston, I use balanced input for LS2B and RCA input for Lexicon. I tried RCA Y splitter (plugged in RCA input of Bryston) but it doesn't work. Only LS2B works. When LS2B is off, Lexicon gives no signal to Bryston unless I pull out the LS2B cable from Y splitter.

I don't know why the bass sounds so weak. My mains are Paradigm Studio 40s. I have moved them closer to the corner and got a little improvement. But still... I know it shouldn't sound as much as with a powered sub, but I should be able to expect better from LS2B and Bryston 4B.

My sub is JBL PB12 which I about to upgrade. I am planning to diy a 12" sub. If you wer me, are you gonna add a sub to the LS2B and Bryston 4B combination?

[Mr Peabody]

What are you using for speaker cables? I'm sure you know about being in phase (red +) to (red +) etc. Does the bass response vary much from source to source?

I don't use a sub for music but that really is a personal choice. If you enjoy the extra bass then go for it. In your set up you will probably have to get two identical subs and run them with your mains. Set the Lexicon set up menu to "no sub" and have one sub and one Studio 40 on left and the same on right.

I'll have to check the LS2's output impedance but I'd think it should drive solid state alright.

[Mr Peabody]

The description of the LS2b shows two balanced outputs b1 & b2, is this correct? If yours are like this you definitely want to be connected to b1, the output impedance is only 400ohms which is great. b2 is 10k which could be a problem. If you only have one balanced out check you manual to see what the impedance is. You want to be 500 ohms or less going to solid state. Although I did notice the LS2 is a hybrid preamp, only one tube.

[minye]

I use 10 gauge speaker cables with bananas. One thing is they run for about 15 feet long each from the audio rack beside the listening area to the speakers.

The bass seems to vary from source to source, but not very much. I haven't test it with many source yet. I am gonna test more and maybe with a SS preamp later.

I wish I can work out with the tube preamp 'cause I like its sweet mid and much better image of ARC ( sounds more HiFi) than the HT prepro.

[Mr Peabody]

Read my previous post in regard to the LS2 outputs and notice the LS2 isn't exactly a tube preamp, it's considered a hybrid.

[minye]

Right, 2 balanced out. I did the test all through RCA out (that is labeled "main"). My balanced cable is still on the way. I will use B1 as you say. Thanks!

[Mr Peabody]

The RCA out was low impedance as well but the balanced might help. You might want to experiment with better speaker cables too. My brother just has a Denon receiver driving vintage Infinity Kappa 7's, he was using 10 gauge Monster. He did something for me and I gave him an old pair of Audioquest speaker connects I had around and he said it made a big difference. So on gear of your quality it's worth a try.

[JoeE SP9]

JoeE, Thanks for the input. Lots of useful information for me.

Your system is really a high-end and expensive solution. I started with HT and now want to step in to 2-channel for about 50/50. So I added the ARC LS2B tube preamp only for CD source and leave tuner, TV and DVD to Lexicon processor. One of my question was if I should use the subwoofer with my ARC preamp (2 channel part). If add, how to ? "Y" splitter doesn't work well for my system... Your solution is too pricy for me...:-)

One thing I am clear that you add powered subs to your system and looks on them as part of your 2-channel. You achieve this by using active x-overs and bi-amp. This is absolutely a better job.
For the "2.1 stereo" thing, I think it is just an expression that folks use to describe the effect or mode in their pre-pros which sends 2 channel signals to the mains as well as
low Hz signal to a power drived sub. ( how do you adjust the bass gain and know that is the "right" bass since your amp for sub may not be the same as mains'?)

My crossovers have level adjustments. I use test tones and a Rat Shack meter to get the levels in the ball park. I fine tune by ear. My system started out as 2 channel. Surround sound was added mostly for movies and TV. I'm not suggesting my solution. It's just one way of doing things. I have recently been exposed to the benefits of Tact's digital equalizers. I'm currently looking into getting one. Unfortunately the used market for them is practically non-existent.
Most of my gear was purchased used. I buy gear with the long term in mind. I have stuck with separates because of the flexibility. The Lexicon processor is the first new item I've purchased in more than ten years. That doesn't include phono cartridges.:idea: