Opinions on a 2.0 under $700 [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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Eventix
11-19-2006, 01:17 PM
I am in the market for a new 2.0 setup for my HT entertainment. My objective is to have separates (maybe a 2 channel amp and a preamp) with the option of upgrading to a 2.1. I had a Sony (Vision touch) 5.1 HT in the past, but I am tired of the extra wiring and speakers required. I want it simple but flexible. To be able to add a subwoofer (2.1) or even rears and a center in the future (option of center and rears is not required). I don't think the wife will notice if I keep this first investment at or below $700. Anyway, I thought some of you may have recommendations for me to consider, or maybe I'm taking the wrong approach. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. This is what I am considering so far:

Amplifier - http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=84

Speakers - http://www.mtxhome.com/p/cabs/monitor60i.htm

I have not found a suitable preamp.

jrhymeammo
11-19-2006, 04:31 PM
With your budget, I think you should look into a used market. Keep your eyes open for a pair of bookshelf speakers. Audiogon is a great sourse. I'm advice to you is try not to ask sellers to lower their price too much. If you see something you like, then just ask them to include the cost of shipping for their original asking price. You haggle too much then you lose the potential of acquiring some of the best deals.
This one for instance,
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1169160966

His score is 12, and has only complete 4 transaction. That usually means he is a private seller so you maybe able to get them for $380 including shipping and even paypal. If seller has say 500 scores, then they are just used audio retailers. Will not listen much to discount, so if you see a great deal, just jump in.
For that Soliloquy, he has his own picture so I would think you can trust him a bit more. If you are interested and still dont trust him, then ask him to take a specific picture.

You have a desire to go prepro with your budget. It might be better to just get a good 2ch receiver unless you can double your budget. At the price point, I doubt you'll benefit from prepro as opposed to a receiver.
Try this link if you dont know much about Agon.

http://buy0.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?miscrcvr&1&ctg&st1

Just keep your eyes open, and dont be afraid to commit if you think it's good.
Or clearnace sections on AudioAdvisor and likes

Welcome to AR,
-JRA

jocko_nc
11-19-2006, 04:52 PM
Start hitting the Goodwills and thrift stores for amps and preamps. You might be surprised some of the high-quality equipment people bring in. I cannot possibly understand what they are thinking. When it does come in, it does not last long. Be patient and it will come.

I scored the following system over the mast month for a total cost of $56.00:

Carver C-2 preamp
H/K Citation-22 amp (top line, 200 wpc)
Klipsch Heresys

That's pretty respectable stuff at any price. I can indulge my audio interests for almost zero cost.

Also, the speaker kits at PartsExpress and Madisound are very good values.

jocko

Eventix
11-19-2006, 05:37 PM
Thanks guys. I was in the market for used equipment but unfortunately wasted a good amount of money. I was taken advantage of on a Soundcraftsmen, A5002, 2 ch amp about a year ago and lost interest until now. AudiogoN seems like a good source, and I will check the local thrift stores for deals. The $700 is not in concrete. I will invest more into this project to achieve what I want. Can I do separates in the low $1k's? Can I achieve good SQ (hopefully better than my old 5.1) with a 2.0? I am avoiding tower speakers. I want it to sound impressive and look simplistic. I started looking at the micro systems by Denon and Yamaha, but I lose flexibility because they are an all-in-one. I am using this for DVD's 100% of the time. To me, a receiver is button clutter.

SlumpBuster
11-19-2006, 08:50 PM
JRA's on the right track. But I got your respected retailer mojo workin' right here if your worried about getting burned in the used market.

Boston Acoustic VR 50 2-way monitors. $399 down from $700.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=BOSTVRM50C&product_name=VRM50%20Speakers%20-%20Pair

This is an outrageously underrated monitor.

Your really asking alot when it comes to amplification. Your really expecting to much flexibiltiy.

But, check out this H/K 2 channel reciever. .
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3960817

Its got your sub out. And if you ever do get bitten by the HT bug again, its "pre-out main in" still allows you to use it as a two channel amplifier driving your front mains freeing up the HT receiver to power the center and surrounds.

Frankly, I would forget about separates in this price range and focus more of your budget on speakers. But if you intent on separates. Audiosource is going to give you great bang for the buck.
http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.process?N=10937+400200&Ne=400000#Brand

Hey, I'm $35 under budget. I don't think your gonna do much better without going used, but this would still be a very, very good set up.

Eventix
11-20-2006, 11:09 AM
I was not aware that 2ch receivers were available. I didn't even check considering the 5.1's and 7.1's can be used as a 2ch. Is this a rare request? It seems so simple to me. Preamps seem to have more options than I want or need. All I wanted was a way to remotely adjust the volume (gain) of the signal with minimal degradation. For future reference, is a preamp the only way to do this?

You guys have confirmed that I have to increase my budget by a considerable amount to achieve separates. For the short term I will invest in a decent quality 2ch receiver and put my emphasis on the speakers then upgrade to separates with the same speakers. It seems as though companies have drifted away from the simple 2ch stereo and now all offer 5.1's or more.

All the speakers you have recommended are within my budget, but I am picky about the appearance. I will find a way to match the speakers with my teak furniture (black will probably be my only option). Thanks for all the help.

SlumpBuster
11-20-2006, 05:05 PM
I was not aware that 2ch receivers were available. I didn't even check considering the 5.1's and 7.1's can be used as a 2ch. Is this a rare request? It seems so simple to me. Preamps seem to have more options than I want or need. All I wanted was a way to remotely adjust the volume (gain) of the signal with minimal degradation. For future reference, is a preamp the only way to do this?

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but hear it goes. First, lets make sure we are on the same page regarding vocabulary. A receiver is a preamp and amp, combined with a tuner as well, all in one chassis. An integrated amp is a preamp and amplifier in one chassis but without the tuner. A preamp is a variable gain stage that takes a line level signal and regulates it through a potentiameter (sp?), or a commonly known a as a volume knob. An amplifier is a fixed gain stage. I always like to use water and plumbing as an analogy. The amp is like you city water supply. Lets say its 100 gallons per minute maximum (i.e. 100 watts). Your preamp is like a faucet or tap. Turn it on a quarter of the way and it will let 25 gallons per minute out. Open that faucet all the way and you get 100 gallons per minute. Similarly, if you turn the volume knob all the way up, the amp is going to release all its power.

While this analogy is not a hundred percent right as it more accurately describes a passive preamp instead of a more common active preamp, it is at least in the ball park. Any sort of remote controlled volume control is going to be some type of preamp, whether it is a proper active preamp, or a wall mounted volume control.

Here's the somewhat complicated part. The preamp output on the H/K receiver allows it to act just as preamp. In otherwords if you get a fancy Bryston amp later, the H/K can control it.
Conversly, the amp input on the H/K allows you to use it as a two channel amp. The amp stage of that H/K ain't too shabby. So if you got a cheap Poineer HT receiver in the future, you could feed the line level front speaker channels from teh Poineer AVR to the H/K amp input. That would give you your 5.1 HT, but still give you sweet H/K amp power to you main speakers. Sure it might seem a little cumbersome, but it's not really.


You guys have confirmed that I have to increase my budget by a considerable amount to achieve separates. For the short term I will invest in a decent quality 2ch receiver and put my emphasis on the speakers then upgrade to separates with the same speakers. It seems as though companies have drifted away from the simple 2ch stereo and now all offer 5.1's or more.

All the speakers you have recommended are within my budget, but I am picky about the appearance. I will find a way to match the speakers with my teak furniture (black will probably be my only option). Thanks for all the help.

Finally, FYI cherry finish in either vinyl or veneer is available on most speaker from most manufacuters and look a hell of alot better than black with my danish teak contemp, IMHO.

emorphien
11-20-2006, 05:16 PM
I was not aware that 2ch receivers were available. I didn't even check considering the 5.1's and 7.1's can be used as a 2ch. Is this a rare request? It seems so simple to me. Preamps seem to have more options than I want or need. All I wanted was a way to remotely adjust the volume (gain) of the signal with minimal degradation. For future reference, is a preamp the only way to do this?

You guys have confirmed that I have to increase my budget by a considerable amount to achieve separates. For the short term I will invest in a decent quality 2ch receiver and put my emphasis on the speakers then upgrade to separates with the same speakers. It seems as though companies have drifted away from the simple 2ch stereo and now all offer 5.1's or more.

All the speakers you have recommended are within my budget, but I am picky about the appearance. I will find a way to match the speakers with my teak furniture (black will probably be my only option). Thanks for all the help.
There are a lot of 2 channel receivers, Onkyo and H/K each have some and there are others. I have an Onkyo TX-8211 i've been meaning to part ways with. I'm certainly not saying buy mine but you can find those for under $200 and might be an option worth considering if you're on a budget.

jrhymeammo
11-20-2006, 07:33 PM
For the short term I will invest in a decent quality 2ch receiver and put my emphasis on the speakers

Great statement there Eventix. I've never heard a newbie make a rational statement like that. You are on a right track.

What is wrong with your Sony Receiver? I wouldnt ditch that thing. Use that as a 2ch pre-amp. I'm almost certain that you can use your Sony HT receiver as a pure 2ch pre-amp. No one like Sony around here but using that as a processor will be more than adequete. I would spend all of your budget towards a pair of Tower speakers(assuming your SoundCraftman amp has enough power).

Eventix
11-20-2006, 08:15 PM
Forgive me for being vague. I am learning as I get involved in this new project/interest of mine. The H/K is at a very reasonable price especially considering the reviews. My main objective was to keep this as simple as possible and maintain good SQ. I do not expect to get what I want for cheep.

My first notion was to keep things separate. One two channel amplifier, a preamplifier, and a DVD player. On all three components only one would require a digital display, the DVD player. I wouldn't need a large amplifier, maybe 50watts per channel for bookshelf size speaker at low volumes. I wanted to avoid the clutter of adding multiple displays to my entertainment cabinet and the clutter of having a 7"-9" tall receiver or amplifier.

I see plenty of amplifiers in my price and power range with good reviews. Maybe I should skip this 2ch receiver and allocate $800 on speakers and an amp. How much should I expect to spend on a preamp? Should I expect to spend more on a piece of hardware that does a third of a receiver? This is my first serious investment into the HT market and I want to do it right. Have I wondered too far form the title of this thread? How much should I expect to spend to achieve my objective? Meanwhile, I will look into the integrated amplifers.

jrhymeammo
11-20-2006, 08:38 PM
This is my first serious investment into the HT market and I want to do it right.

That's good, but I'm kinda confused. You are now interested in HomeTheater setup? So 5.1 or more is what you are interested in? If so, then with your budget you would need to keep your Sony DTR-805G. Then spend most of your money on speakers.
But I'm going to ignore my confusion...

So your budget is about 800 for a DVDP, receiver/prepro, and Speakers. I would have to say that pre-amp option will have to be tossed far away from your head. Maybe the cheapest way for you to do might be trying to find a good DVDP for about $150 with an output adjustment, then feed them straight into your new ($250) amp and spend the remainder to a pair of Paradigm Studio 20. But....

You might be trying to achieve the impossible here. You are going to have to start compromising something. I still think the best way for you to do is to use your Sony STR DE805G as your preamp and get a used NAD/Rotel amp for about $250 somewhere. That way you can allocate more money towards a pair of good bookshelf speakers. Trying to get a integrated amp with your budget will not leave you any money for speakers. Try to empahsize your budget more towards speakers than anything else.

You may want to look at something like this.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027417&pathId=11&page=1

It'll play DVD-V, DVD Audio and others. And those wooden woofers are the most incredible things I've heard in a mini system. They are no joke. Members here may laugh, if that's the case then they havent heard it.

-JRA

Eventix
11-20-2006, 09:52 PM
I definitely do not want anything more than a 2.1 setup. I retired the Sony because it was a pain to deal with (I'm actually using it as the audio source for my office PC). This is a fresh start. As of now my entertainment cabinet is empty (except for the DVD player). The only thing I changed in my last post was that I am willing to part with $800 on the speakers and amplifier. The preamp is a separate investment. I'm asking you because I have no idea how much this piece of equipment (preamp) costs. The preamps I have seen on AudioReview seem to range from $1000 - $7000. Should I expect to spend a minimum estimate of $1800 on a 2.0 setup consisting of separates?

jrhymeammo
11-22-2006, 01:21 AM
Okay another try here.


The only thing I changed in my last post was that I am willing to part with $800 on the speakers and amplifier. The preamp is a separate investment.

You combined budget has been raised considerabley. I think we got more to work with here. I do want to ask you this. With your budget for a 2ch amp and a preamp, do you think you will be willing to get a integrated amp with that? That might get you something great. Let us know on that one. But for now,


Speakers:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHT3
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1NHTAZ
This is nothing to be laughed at. I think you will be happy with them w/o subs.

Pre-amp. Since you are going to go with 2.0 or 2.1. You should consider tube pres. I'm a big believer in tube audio, especially in you pre linestages.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1ASWL1

I have no experience with Adcom products. All you can do is to perform a research on your own. Read some reviews. Get a copy of some audio mags, or just go read them for free.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1ADGFP715

Parasound. They have been around and we have alot of happy members here using their products.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE2

Amp:

Parasound again.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC275

This one is a little brother. If you choose to get this one. I would get 2 of them and bridge them together and pump out 90watts per amp. This is really easy to do. You will not have to worry about paying for extra wires of any sort.

Integrated amp:

Cambridge Audio is also well respected around here. Members here have been recommending them here for a while. I have heard anyone talking about them of late though. When you see their rated specs, you might wonder that they are only around 60 watts. Just remember RMS with low distortion rate is what matters. They will pump out more power than most of 100watts receivers BestBuy receivers.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA540AV2
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA640AV2
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHA25%2E2
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAC352

I also dont have any experience with them, but after talking to people and reading reviews, we are pretty much know that their products are something to be trusted.


The only reason why I used AudioAdvisor is that it was the easiest thing for me to do.
Also, I feel like I focued your budget away from speakers. But I dont think I put together a bad sounding system. I think they;ll sound pretty good, and alot of people will kill to have that system. I think kept the budget around $1000 so it should be okay for you. If you are still around, come back and ask some questions. Maybe we gave you some ideas on what might be pretty good. So come back with some products you are interested in. We might be able to help. There is this company called CIAudio that I've always been curious about. I dont think they are too expensive, but I dont know their price right now.

My caffine is wearing off, so good night.

JRA

jocko_nc
11-22-2006, 12:30 PM
There's a ton of old Adcom on the used market. They sold many units back in the early 90's that were pretty darn good. Look up the GFA 545 and 545 II. I have been using one for about 6 months now. Good solid amp that you should be able to find for $200.00.

jocko

Eventix
11-22-2006, 06:24 PM
I just briefly looked through the links you supplied and I am impressed. You found exactly what I am looking for and the prices are less than I expected. I really like the Antique Sound Preamplifier. This is a good start for my project and I appreciate your help. I will keep you guys posted on the status.