need advice on receivers

[halfadeck]

Hi all new to board. I could really use some advice. I'm looking to buy a receiver I have a denon 3802 right not with klipsch legend series speakers and rs 5 surrounds. I really liked the sound I get out of the set up I have but I blew up thereceiver and its not the same after it came back repaired so looking for a replacement. My room is 21 by 17 with a 19 foot ceiling.One thing I'm looking to get out of the new receiver is to be able to play concert loud with good clarity. Nothing beats the new korn dvd or the zepplin dvd cranked. The receivers i'm looking at are denon 4306 1500$, 4806 2400$, yamaha 2700 1100$ all new. Or these refurbished denon 5803 2000$ denon 5805 about 3500$ or the yamaha rxz9 around 3000$. I also went and listened to an arcam 350 new at 2500$ it didnt impress me but the speakers hooked up to it were pretty cheap I'm gonna bring it home and home test it next week. The receiver has to sound good for movies and be able to make me think I'm at a concert. Any advice or opinions would be great cause my brain is over loading and I just want to be rocking. Thanks again!

[elapsed]

Have you considered purchasing seperates? A poweramp will really bring your speakers to life in such an open room.

Rotel RSP-1068 pre/pro: $1700
Rotel RMB-1075 poweramp: $1200 (120 watts x 5)

Or consider a receiver such as a Denon AVR-3806 ($1300) or Rotel RSX-1057 ($1300) and use the pre-outs to connect a poweramp. This is ideal for home theatre.

Rotel RMB-1075 poweramp: $1200 (120 watts x 5)
Rotel RMB-1095 poweramp: $2000 (200 watts x 5)

Prices above are all list, so I'm sure you could squeeze a deal somewhere.

[halfadeck]

Hi elasped thanks for reply. Yes I thought about seperates but was figuring too much money so really haven't researched it. I've had a headache for a weak now just researching to find the right product for price value. 3500$ is really pushing it for me but just about every review I've seen about the denon 5805 makes me drool ( I'll have to spend a week on the couch if i spend that much lol). I will deffinitly research the suggestions you listed and maybe ill go that way I just dont know alot about seperates and if there in my price range as oppossed to a single receiver. If you can give me a short synopsis what i should look for in seperates I would greatly appreciate that because I'm a newbie concerning that.Thanks again!

[elapsed]

A receiver is essentially a tuner, a preamp and a poweramp all in the same chassis. An alternative to purchasing a receiver is to purchase discrete components, meaning seperate tuner, preamp and poweramp. One of the main benefits of purchasing preamp and poweramp is isolation of the main circuits and each having their own dedicated power supply, hense less induced noise within the circuit paths.

If you can't afford a dedicated processor/preamp, then you can always purchase a receiver and use its pre-outs to connect a poweramp. On your budget, I would suggest purchasing a receiver such as a Denon AVR-3806 for $900, and then purchasing a used poweramp on Audiogon. For instance, I see a Rotel RMB-1095 for $1395. You'll be astounded at the difference this will make.

Also keep in mind that this poweramp is enourmous, weighing in at 75 lbs, and 9" tall. You could certainly get away with far less of a poweramp, and still be very satisfied.

[halfadeck]

thanks again elapse I will definitly look into this matter of fact just been looking on ebay there is one now there. I'm gonna have to get me some asprin because I feel a headache coming on from all the research lol

[kelsci]

Hi Halfadeck; I was in a store the other day. Try to audition the Pioneer Elite series 81-84. I heard the 80 and 81 in stereo only;both were quite good on music with the 81 even sounding better than the 80. I did not hear the higher up Elite models but if they sound anything like the 81 IMHO that would be real nice. I think the Sharc processor in the Denons are superb because the surround sound is wonderful in the Denons.

[ldgibson76]

Hi all new to board. I could really use some advice. I'm looking to buy a receiver I have a denon 3802 right not with klipsch legend series speakers and rs 5 surrounds. I really liked the sound I get out of the set up I have but I blew up thereceiver and its not the same after it came back repaired so looking for a replacement. My room is 21 by 17 with a 19 foot ceiling.One thing I'm looking to get out of the new receiver is to be able to play concert loud with good clarity. Nothing beats the new korn dvd or the zepplin dvd cranked. The receivers i'm looking at are denon 4306 1500$, 4806 2400$, yamaha 2700 1100$ all new. Or these refurbished denon 5803 2000$ denon 5805 about 3500$ or the yamaha rxz9 around 3000$. I also went and listened to an arcam 350 new at 2500$ it didnt impress me but the speakers hooked up to it were pretty cheap I'm gonna bring it home and home test it next week. The receiver has to sound good for movies and be able to make me think I'm at a concert. Any advice or opinions would be great cause my brain is over loading and I just want to be rocking. Thanks again!


Hello Halfadeck.

When considering an A/V Receiver, you need to decide what is most important to you.
Is it sound quality(music playback), video switching ability/quality, functionality, versatility, user friendliness, component accomodation, technology for today and/or tomorrow. All of this needs to be considered when choosing the right receiver. Recently
I was also looking for the perfect receiver. I even considered pre-owned/older high end models such as the Z9 and the B&K AVR507, etc,....But because of HDMI and HiDef technology moving ahead at a ridiculous rate, the Z9 and the 507 along with the 5803 albeit great products and ahead of their respective time's, would be obsolete in the near future (1080P). The other brands and models...Denon 2807, 3806,4306, 4806, Yamaha's RX-V2700 are all great products, and are all superior in video switching and transfer technology. They even excel in audio reproduction, but I choose the Marantz SR8001.
Why? It's on par with the others when it comes to video processing, switching, transfer and upscaling. But when it comes to audio reproduction, there is no comparison in the "One box does all" category. If you close your eyes and listen, you would swear you were experiencing hi-end separates (pre-amp/amp). It's amazing. I owned the Yamaha RX-V3000 and still do. I use it for my livingroom set up. By time I was ready to replace it with new technology, the Z9 was sadly out of the question, no HDMI. And I respect the Denon product, but I was used to the yamaha sound quality. But even that has been compromised at the sake of being at a competitive price point. The amps within the Yamaha are now tested at lower tolerances/damping factor rating.
Don't get me wrong...there are some great receiver out there, but if you are looking for the best value/bang for the buck and still get Hi-end results....The Marantz SR8001 ($1999) is one to be considered. 4 HDMI inputs V1.2; 2 HDMI outputs; 4 Component inputs; 2 Component outputs a true 125w x 7; Audessey calibration; THX Select 2; Oh yeah, the biggie...3 year Warranty! Everything else in this price range is 2 year. Check it out.

[N. Abstentia]

Yeah with that budget forget about receivers, go seperates.

Start with the Outlaw 990 pre/pro at $1100.

Add amplification from there. I went with the Boston Acoustics 7200 7-channel amp for $749, so for under 2 grand you can have top notch seperates that will destroy any receiver in that price range. You probably won't find that same amp at that same price, but you can get a killer 5 or 7 channel amp for under $1000 easily.

[ldgibson76]

Not that I want to refute what was just just posted, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't the Outlaw 990 pre/pro DVI connectivity?!! Can you say "Obsolete in 1 year"? With DVI connectivity, that's what the 990 will be. Now, as far a buying a top notch multichannel amp for under a "G".....yeah, on eBay. And it will be very used! And the Boston Acoustics 7200 is discontinued....know why?!!! It didn't sell! So the idea of finding a high quality amp with factory support, and being under $1000.00 will be a hard find. By the way, the audio gurus (Audiophile Magazine & Absolute Sound) have said that if you want a AV Receiver with separates sound quality, Marantz is the best choice! Are there better sounding pre/pro's out there?!!! Of course, but the price will be well above the $2000.00 mark. And with the SR8001, you have technology that will be relevant for at least 3-4 years.

[halfadeck]

First let me say thanks for the replies and opinions I've been racking my brain reading reviews and researching I'm gonna go to yet another hifi shop today. One problem I'm worried about is my room very open with 19 foot ceiling so to get the kick ass sound im cranking up to 109 110 dbs hence that is why I burnt up the dennon. Thats one reason looking at higher than a 3806 dennon model. I know the z9 and the 5803 is pretty much obselete with hdmi connections but when I bought my 60" sony 4 years ago they have no hdmi plug in but I also know im gonna build a HT in the basement in a few years would love to get something that would fit for that. One thing I would like to hear an opinion on is what do you think of refurbished models are they just as good as new the 5805 would be from a denon authorized dealer. I have not looked at the marantz and just a little on the pioneer elites I will deffinatly give them more scutiny. I just dont want to buy something that cant handle my room thats what i feel about the arcam it sounded great in a small room but i think in mine it would have to be playing at max all the time to give me that concert sound. Im gonna go check out seperates today and see if it would be in my price range. Thanks again I knew this sight would help me in the desicion making, from the posts I've read in the forums there is alot of smart people here. Ill keep checking back and you all keep rocking !

[halfadeck]

well went to the hifi store and look at the rotel rmb 2095 and the yamaha 2700 dou. They didnt have it hooked up but 2 blocks down was another store listened to a nad t 163 preamp/tuner and a nad t973 7-channel power amp set up. The nad sounded very nice. I got both dealers down to the same price new out the door 3500$. I know I can get the rotel/yamaha set for about 2500 new yamaha and used rotel. The nad dealer said the nad set up was way better but then again he's a salesman lol. I would really like some opinions on these. One other thing the nad has no hdmi so that would be a minus but it did have level trims for the speakers right on the remote very handy. Thanks and please let the opinions flow

[rl168]

ldgibson76,

Hi there, it is perfect timing to read your post because I have a yamaha rxv2700 and a marantz sr8001 sitting in my game room now. I am in the process of buying a receiver to power my 5.1 HT (paradigm S8 fronts, C3 center and Sony rear speakers). After listening to 2 channel music on both receiver, I think the sr8001 sound better than the yamaha, but I can't really describe how exactly it is better.

I am still debating which one to get because even though the marantz sounds better, the yamaha has more video features. The yamaha can up-convert/scale to 1080i whereas the marantz can only do up to 480p. Was that a factor in your decision making?

Also, you mentioned the sr8001 has true 125wx7. I have read that some receivers have higher power output on paper than in real life, is that what you are referring to?

Sorry for so many questions, I am new to this and I am hoping to get feedbacks from experienced folks to help me make a good decision. Thanks!

[N. Abstentia]

Not that I want to refute what was just just posted, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't the Outlaw 990 pre/pro DVI connectivity?!! Can you say "Obsolete in 1 year"? With DVI connectivity, that's what the 990 will be. Now, as far a buying a top notch multichannel amp for under a "G".....yeah, on eBay. And it will be very used! And the Boston Acoustics 7200 is discontinued....know why?!!! It didn't sell!


First off, let me just say that you're a complete moron.

Now that we've established that fact I'll educate you. DVI is a standard for digital video connections. Guess what most computer monitors and upconverting DVD players use? Yep, DVI. Now I'm in no way saying that DVI is 'better' than HDMI, I'm just..like I said..educating you since you think that nothing uses DVI.

Besides..guess what it takes to make the 990 HDMI capable? A $4 DVI-HDMI convertor. How hard was that?

Please explain what's wrong with buying a used amp from Ebay or Audiogon. I'm anxious to hear this.

As far as the Boston amp 'not selling'...again you are ignorant of the subject. In fact the Boston amp was discontinued because Denon bought BA, and Denon has their own electronics line so they nixed the BA line. The BA amps are in fact made by ATI (yeah I know you have no idea who they are...just nod your head like you understand). So for less than a grand you can have a $4000 amp.

So, now that you've been schooled, you can go back to listening to your $400 system in your parent's basement. Come back when you have a clue.

[BadAssJazz]

Yeah with that budget forget about receivers, go seperates.

I have to agree here.

If you are going to drop anywhere from $2000 - $3500 on a new unit, I STRONGLY suggest getting a separate pre/pro and multi-channel amp. I've auditioned everything from Parasound to Krell to Rotel, and nothing compares to separates in terms of performance. If you can, try to audition in your home a separates package with those Klipsch Legends and you'll see what everyone is raving about.

However, if there are are other reasons why you have your heart set on a receiver, you can find comparable quality and performance from Rotel, Denon, Pioneer Elite, NAD, Marantz and many, many others for under $1500. Get the unit with the performance and features (right down to the remote) that works best for you.

And don't stress yourself out over obsolence. After all, you are replacing a Denon 3802, which was one of the top performers in it's class even many years after it was discontinued. Newer receivers may have all of the bells and whistles -- to say nothing of in/out connection options up the wazoo -- but at the end of the day, there is no substitute for sound. Don't let all of the new innovations sidetrack your ultimate goal.

[kexodusc]

Rotel and Arcam make the best a/v receiver or pre-pros I've heard under $2000. Same componentry as their quality separates...definitely worth checking out.
They're amps are incredible values, and I highly recommend them, but I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on the Outlaw's other electronics.., and didn't like their last pre-pro at all, but I trust N.Abstentia's judgement in audio - he's been around the block so to speak - so definitely consider it...he replaced a quality unit with his so he must have heard something he liked. The price is certainly right and Outlaw fetches a good price when reselling, so not that risky. Maybe they even have a trial program? The DVI thing seems like a non issue to me. I'm of the opinion HDMI or DVI make it easy enough to by-pass the receiver and go straight from source to TV set anyway.

Quite honestly, afterl playing with a lot of pre-pros and mid-fi a/v receivers over the years, I'm of the opinion the best bang for the buck in the OP's budget area comes from either buying used, or running a decent receiver as a pre-pro, and buying quality amplification. Try to keep as much digital as you can, but the analog stages of a/v receivers have really improved at the sub $1000 in the past few years so they don't sound as noticeably cheap compared to quality separates anymore.

Guess there's no real optimal solution, so get your butt out there and start demoing...that's half the fun in this stuff...

[N. Abstentia]

Yeah Outlaw has a 30 day in-home trial on their stuff. The thing that sold me on the Outlaw was simply the sound quality. I'm in the 'if it can excel at music then it can breeze through movies' school of thought, and the 2 channel performance of the Outlaw 990 is top notch. Vinyl and SACD/DVD-A are just scary good through this preamp. Definitely check it out.

[halfadeck]

Thanks again for all your replies. I ordered the earthquake and the outlaw 990. Paid less than 3500 for both brand new and from authorized dealers. My wife isnt the happiest at the moment but when she hears it it will all be good. Should be all set up by next weekend can't wait. Thanks again and when I get it running ill give a shout back on the sound. I think " in the end" by Rush on an album will be the first song cant wait.

[N. Abstentia]

. I think " in the end" by Rush on an album will be the first song cant wait.

Excellent choice :)

[kexodusc]

Excellent choice :)
I concur :3:

Congrats on the new toys, halfadeck...some pics, and your first impressions would be nice to read when you get some time!!!

[GMichael]

I concur :3:

Congrats on the new toys, halfadeck...some pics, and your first impressions would be nice to read when you get some time!!!

Ditto, but live or studio on the Rush? May I suggest both?

[halfadeck]

I have the studio version haven't heard the live version what album is it off of? I got the outlaw already, waiting on the earthquake should be here in a day or 2 will give a shout out when I get it hooked up and my ears can't take anymore lol.

[halfadeck]

Btw a big THANKS for the replies and opinions it really helped. Sorry forgot to put that in last post:)

[GMichael]

I have the studio version haven't heard the live version what album is it off of? I got the outlaw already, waiting on the earthquake should be here in a day or 2 will give a shout out when I get it hooked up and my ears can't take anymore lol.

All The World's a Stage.

Happy listening.