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flafonta
02-08-2004, 06:35 PM
I am buying a new HT system, and the local store guy said I really need something to regulate the voltage.

He almost said he would not let me out of the store without one.

The HT system I am looking at is mid-level, I think.... (Yamaha 1400, SVS sub, Rocket 550/200 speakers).

They salesman recommended the Monstaer Power Center 2500.

Would you recommend a voltage regulator for my system? Is this one any good?

Thanks!

RGA
02-08-2004, 07:02 PM
Of course he wants to sell you such a thing because there is probably a 1000% profit margin and whatever he sells it for probably nets him 30% commision.

These things and cables are basically the same as aluminum siding and rust proofing on cars were in the 50s -70s.

One reason these things have become so huge is that all the electronics don't have enough profit in them to make them even worth selling.

A store here had a salesperson that told me that the store makes no more than $30.00 on a $600.00 television..after they pay their employees and paperwork $30.00. They make more profit on a $60.00 cable than they make on a $600.00TV.

No wonder he doesn't want to let you leave without absolutely getting you to take that vital device.

mtrycraft
02-08-2004, 09:57 PM
These things and cables are basically the same as aluminum siding and rust proofing on cars were in the 50s -70s..

What do you mean? No such practice is happening today? :)

mtrycraft
02-08-2004, 10:00 PM
I am buying a new HT system, and the local store guy said I really need something to regulate the voltage.
He almost said he would not let me out of the store without one.
The HT system I am looking at is mid-level, I think.... (Yamaha 1400, SVS sub, Rocket 550/200 speakers).
They salesman recommended the Monstaer Power Center 2500.
Would you recommend a voltage regulator for my system? Is this one any good?
Thanks!

As was mentioned above, they want more income only.
Do you know in fact that your power has a problem with voltage regulation?
You may just need to invest in a good surge protector. Much less expensive too.

bturk667
02-09-2004, 05:56 AM
Since the salesman was so insistant, why not ask him for a home demo? This way you could hear for yourself if it really makes a difference or not. If he says no, then you say no!

E-Stat
02-09-2004, 06:23 AM
Of course he wants to sell you such a thing because there is probably a 1000% profit margin ...
That would be an interesting trick. Even if their cost of goods was zero, the margin would be 100%.

rw

RGA
02-09-2004, 05:10 PM
A $100.00 Cable cost the maufacturer about $1.00 to make, package, ship and advertise - MAYBE. 1 X 1000% on my calculator reads 10 or $10.00. Thus a 1000% profit on the cost. I think I'm being generous on cables. Perhaps should not have used the word margin though.


Mrty
Rust-proofing on cars here has been changed to some sort of electronic alarm code they imprint on the window and kind of suggest that you HAVE to buy it to get the car. At $150-$300.00 a lot of people get duped into thinking it's worth having - which it isn't of course.

Rust proofing. LOL. I had a guy try and sell it on the undercarriage. D'uhh...it was already on the car out of the manufacturer...so basically he was selling something already provided by the manufacturer. And gee wiz...don't amplifiers or cd players throw in cables? Those amp and cd player makers want their thing to sound good so if they NEEDED monster cables they would throw them in - or make their own fancy cables.

I should not say this too loud because the Sony's of the world may STOP giving those free cheap cables and come out with SONY high end cables you have to buy separately at $50.00 a pop...just like all the Printer manufacturers.

I recently bought at FutureShop a $99.00 all in one printer but I needed to buy the cable. I am no expert on cables so i look around and see a USB cable for $29.99(Cicero). Nearly 1/3 the price of the printer. SO I ask the salesperson(stupid thing t do I know) if this is right? It seems crazy for a cable to be $30.00. I grumbled but paid because hey I needed the cable to work the printer. Then a week later I'm in Wall Mart...the same printer is $146.00 but what do I see a USB cable from HP with gold contacts just like mine same length different name for $8.99. And you know they're making at least $7.00 on that.

Yeah Future Shop offers the best prices in Canada most of the time but they hard hard hard sell the other crap.

Hell they are selling CASES for laptops for $100.00. It's a pice of vinyl and or cloth with zippers. Same thing at Wal-mart is $19.99.

I know people hate Wal-Mart...but c'mon.

Sure if you can try it out at home for free fine. A&B Sound will let you try it out for 30 days full money back for any reason - no restock of any kind. But basically they want the stuff out the door knowing once it's out the door at most 10% will bring it back...even if 50% bring it back they'll still make a killing on the profit of the other 50%.

skeptic
02-09-2004, 05:51 PM
This looks suspiciously like a resale OEM or built around a Sola ferroresonant voltage stabalizer transformer in a fancy package with a huge markup. 35 years ago on my first job, I encountered them and they were old technology even then. But they work-- if the connected load is at least ten percent of their rating. Of course, you can buy them in much less fancy packaging if you go directly to Sola yourself. Their web site is;
http://www.sola-hevi-duty.com/
Their distributors are electrical equipment supply houses.

Whether you need one or not is an entirely different matter. I had a friend who had unusual power problems from LILCO where voltage was often much too low because their feeders were too small and he had the misfortune to be at the end of the line in his local part of the distribution network. Of course, their field tech said his voltage was within their spec. I would advise you to verify that your voltage is 120 volts +/- about 5 %. A dvm will do just fine. I would not worry about occasional or momentary fluctuations. The cost of actually correcting them is far more than it is worth. IMO you sound system doesn't justify such an expense unless you have problems thoughout your home and in that case you have a much bigger problem on your hands.

mtrycraft
02-09-2004, 09:57 PM
Mrty Rust-proofing on cars here has been changed to some sort of electronic alarm code they imprint on the window and kind of suggest that you HAVE to buy it to get the car. At $150-$300.00 a lot of people get duped into thinking it's worth having - which it isn't of course.

Or is it just the engine no etched on the windows. You can get a number of the number decals and etching paste for fractions. :)



Rust proofing. LOL. I had a guy try and sell it on the undercarriage. D'uhh...it was already on the car out of the manufacturer...so basically he was selling something already provided by the manufacturer. And gee wiz...don't amplifiers or cd players throw in cables? Those amp and cd player makers want their thing to sound good so if they NEEDED monster cables they would throw them in - or make their own fancy cables.

Yes, they reel in the uninformed folks.

When you are in extremis, needing a cable right now, you don't have time to shop around, unless you do that beforehand:)

E-Stat
02-10-2004, 05:36 AM
A $100.00 Cable cost the maufacturer about $1.00 to make, package, ship and advertise - MAYBE. 1 X 1000% on my calculator reads 10 or $10.00. Thus a 1000% profit on the cost.
You can never make more than 100 % profit. Even when you get something for free, 100% of whatever you sell it for is profit. You are referring to markup.

Your example certainly does not represent my cables. The WBT connectors on mine alone cost more than $1.00 each. I am certainly making allowance that PE below is making some profit on their sale.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=093-507&DID=7

rw

Worf101
02-10-2004, 07:37 AM
I had a friend who had unusual power problems from LILCO where voltage was often much too low because their feeders were too small and he had the misfortune to be at the end of the line in his local part of the distribution network. Of course, their field tech said his voltage was within their spec. I would advise you to verify that your voltage is 120 volts +/- about 5 %. A dvm will do just fine. I would not worry about occasional or momentary fluctuations. The cost of actually correcting them is far more than it is worth. IMO you sound system doesn't justify such an expense unless you have problems thoughout your home and in that case you have a much bigger problem on your hands.

Well, since I helped provide over the demise of that "fine organization" I never thought I'd hear they're name raised in "polite" conversation. For those who don't know, LILCO was the Long Island Lighting Company. A company almost responsible for almost singlehandedly ending the era of nuclear powerplant development in this country. From a regulatory standpoint, not the "brightest bulbs in the cabinet".

Da Worfster

skeptic
02-10-2004, 08:29 AM
The Shorem plant was possibly the most ill conceived nuclear power plant ever constructed in the United States. It was completed at a cost of billions but never produced a single watt of power. Why? Because it never got authorization to be commissioned from the government. Every evacuation plan was unacceptable because the vast population of Long Island was congested in a confined space with only one route out and that was to be funnelled west directly through New York City. Ever try the Long Island Expressway at 5:30 on a weekday evening? Too bad they didn't think of that BEFORE they built it.

mtrycraft
02-10-2004, 08:16 PM
Too bad they didn't think of that BEFORE they built it.

Somebody probably did and looked like a good piece of bacon :)

RGA
02-10-2004, 10:29 PM
You can never make more than 100 % profit. Even when you get something for free, 100% of whatever you sell it for is profit. You are referring to markup.

Your example certainly does not represent my cables. The WBT connectors on mine alone cost more than $1.00 each. I am certainly making allowance that PE below is making some profit on their sale.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=093-507&DID=7

rw

Actually yes you can have more than 100% profit. Think about the number I posted. I was actually in error. I said 1X1000% was $10.00 so if you sold your $1.00 item for $10.00 you would have a 1000% Mark-up. To calculate profit you take the selling price $10.00 and subtract your cost which was $1.00. You made a PROFIT of $9.00 on your $1.00 item. That is a 900% profit...Sorry for the first mistake but this is indeed correct now.

The fact that most cmpanies don't achieve anything remotely clsoe to 100% profits the calculation is accurate. The fact that Parts Express sells a connector for $25.00 does not mean it cost them $25.00...they have to make money right?

Most retailers like parts express will have a mark-up of 50% or more to ensure they make money. That item cost parts express no more than $12.50.00 to buy. The company that actuall made the part likely marked it up well over 100% to parts express. If that part cost the manufacturer $6.00 I'd be amazed. In fact I seriously doubt the manufacturer's cost is more than $1.00.

The B&W DM 303 likely cost B&W less than $30.00 to make and it sells for ten time that amount.

My dad used to work for a company that supplied sheet metal and bolts etc for GM in the 80s. The best VALUE in terms of cost to purchase ratio was in the entry level car since the sheet metal in the cadillac was the same as it was on the Cavelier. In fact there is likely not a single American vehicle including the Hummer that has more than $7,000.00CDN of actual materials in there. Unless the leather is Corinthian - and a supplier told me once that the leather they sold to those cars with Leather as an op[tion cost less than $20.00 for the whole car. What do they charge to the consumer 2k? And then it either cracks or makes your ass hot in the sun...stupidest thing they put in cars in my opinion...but I guess rich people think leather is superior because it's expensive.

E-Stat
02-11-2004, 05:54 AM
Actually yes you can have more than 100% profit.
Yes. I inadvertently left out the word "margin" in my last post. Margin denotes that part of selling price which is cost. One cannot make more than 100% margin.

rw

Umrswimr
02-16-2004, 06:33 AM
I bought one simply because my house at the time had terrible power. There was all kinds of noise on the AC line that it caused quite a bit of static. Added a Monster Line conditioner and it fixed the problem. YMMV, but it worked for me- I can't help but recommend it.

woodman
02-16-2004, 12:59 PM
I am buying a new HT system, and the local store guy said I really need something to regulate the voltage.

He almost said he would not let me out of the store without one.

The HT system I am looking at is mid-level, I think.... (Yamaha 1400, SVS sub, Rocket 550/200 speakers).

They salesman recommended the Monstaer Power Center 2500.

Would you recommend a voltage regulator for my system? Is this one any good?

Thanks!

Whatever you do, do NOT let this "salesman" scam you into believing his cockamamie BS! As others have already said (except for umrswimr) such a device is NOT needed by 99.99996% of Americans. I'm uncertain about Canada, although my best educated guess that the percentage of those that don't need sucha thing is probably pretty close ... maybe 99.8527% or thereabouts.

A good surge protector - such as a Panamax is a good idea, but one of those will cost you FAR less than that over-priced Monster! So called voltage regulation is NOT something that you're likely to need ... ever!

Hope this helps you

normancj
03-08-2004, 08:26 AM
I recently purchased a power conditioner, mostly for surge protection. However, after hooking it up, I did notice a real audible difference with my equipment. I then disconnected the unit, and listened again to the same piece, it did not sound anywhere as clean. Additionally, I am hearing more media from my surround rear speakers. Video looks sharper as well, and there is no static on my cordless phone (all hooked into the unit Panamax 5500) I was skeptical, but now I believe. But they are quite a bit of $$$, seems to be consistent, the more the investment, the more discernible the benefit.

Well, having said that. The best advice I can offer is check out their return policy. If you can return the unit for a full refund.....what do you have to lose?

poneal
03-08-2004, 08:47 AM
I'm sure that the panamax 5500 ($800.00) cost more than his recevier. To me that would be absolutely absurd to buy an $800 power conditioner/surge protector when you have a $600 receiver. I think that he should use some common sense and not spend more than 5 to 10 percent for an item like this. So lets see.....if I bought an $8,000.00 receiver then I would be justified buying an $800 dollar one. But then again, if you got money to burn by all means go for it.

nightflier
03-09-2004, 01:43 PM
I also noticed a noticeable difference in the sound and video. While 10% of the cost of the receiver may be too little, I think of it as 10% of the whole setup; so figuring in the cost of everything that's plugged into it, it made sense to me. I bought it mostly for surge protection (I live in an older house), but the line conditioning did make a difference as well.

Do you need the Monster 2500? No. Do you need surge protection, yes. I work on computers for a living, and I have seen systems getting fried during electrical storms (yes I told them to turn the computers off, but they didn't listen). In short, the surge protection is more peace-of-mind than anything else, but do you really need the extra worry?

You can buy a good surge protected power bar for about $20 at your local computer store. Buy one that has attached equipment warrantee and send in the card. You never know when the next thunder storm is going to fry your equipment. If you really want the guy off your back, tell him you already have one. If you find out later that you do need it then buy one online for a whole lot less.

enubis4163
03-29-2004, 07:55 PM
As a home theater salesman, I would say that he was probably makin a big commision off that sale. However as a salesman who doesn't work off commision I tell that in most cases you should look to get some kind of power protection. However you should make sure that it has a preferably an ac line, audio and video fitler so that i will help to fitler all the electricial interference in the power lines which results in a cleaner sound and video. In the case of the monster power 2500 that you were talking about just make sure that it is a clean power protection. As long as it has that you would be fine. However you don't have to buy one of these but if you go to a store and see the display of what these things do you would by one.

AZHT
03-30-2004, 12:57 AM
Just an FYI for you Flofanta...the Monster 2500 isn't a voltage regulator, just a surge and audio/video filter unit. Only the Monster AVS-2000 regulates voltage and it runs around $1499.00. Good luck in whatever you do.

Studio B
03-30-2004, 08:46 PM
??ubis4163]As a home theater salesman, I would say that he was probably makin a big commision off that sale. However as a salesman who doesn't work off commision I tell that in most cases you should look to get some kind of power protection. However you should make sure that it has a preferably an ac line, audio and video fitler so that i will help to fitler all the electricial interference in the power lines which results in a cleaner sound and video. In the case of the monster power 2500 that you were talking about just make sure that it is a clean power protection. As long as it has that you would be fine. However you don't have to buy one of these but if you go to a store and see the display of what these things do you would by one.[/QUOTE]

Just spoke like a true Best Buy salesperson. I wonder what took Monster so long to figure out this problem? I use a line conditioner and surge protector. Sound quality difference? Haven't noticed any difference with or without the unit. Protection from surges? yes, but for my peace of mind. Invest in a small surge protector.

kode3
03-31-2004, 03:04 AM
I have noticed reading on this forum that it seems 80% of the people are just total skeptics when it come to anything cable or power related. Some of them say there is NO difference from a $5 - $10 interconnect and a $500 - $800 one, I find that ludicrous. The same goes for power conditioning. I have a Monster Power 2600, and I can say that the hiss in my system has been greatly reduced, and the colors on my T.V. are much clearer.

I donít understand why they are such nonbelievers in the little extra things. I think things like cables, and power conditioning are just other ways to improve your system, and worth the investment if you can afford it.

Just my 2 cents.

mtrycraft
03-31-2004, 09:59 PM
I have noticed reading on this forum that it seems 80% of the people are just total skeptics when it come to anything cable or power related. Some of them say there is NO difference from a $5 - $10 interconnect and a $500 - $800 one, I find that ludicrous.


Proof is in the pudding. No such evidence has been produced since day one, many moons ago. Many have tried, all have failed.





I donít understand why they are such nonbelievers in the little extra things. I think things like cables, and power conditioning are just other ways to improve your system, and worth the investment if you can afford it.

Just my 2 cents.

No evidence to support any of the claims. Just making claims is not evidence.

kode3
03-31-2004, 10:11 PM
I have noticed reading on this forum that it seems 80% of the people are just total skeptics when it come to anything cable or power related. Some of them say there is NO difference from a $5 - $10 interconnect and a $500 - $800 one, I find that ludicrous.


Proof is in the pudding. No such evidence has been produced since day one, many moons ago. Many have tried, all have failed.





I donít understand why they are such nonbelievers in the little extra things. I think things like cables, and power conditioning are just other ways to improve your system, and worth the investment if you can afford it.

Just my 2 cents.

No evidence to support any of the claims. Just making claims is not evidence.
Oh Jesus. I have had it. Say whatever you like. I never said it was evidence, just my take on the subject. Stop reading between the lines, you over analyze what people say.

JohnBG4CE
09-26-2004, 07:48 AM
After reading all the negative stuff from others, I thought I'd toss some fuel into the fire by saying that if you have expensive audio/video equipment, and don't think you need any power protection, you're mistaken. Whether or not the salesperson gets more $ or not, power conditioning DOES help equipment sound and look better. Maybe buying a Panamax 5500 AC Regenerator like mine costs too much, but I live in Florida, and lightning here has already toasted one of my PC's and I'm not about to watch the same thing happen to my system. Once I hooked up my Panamax, the hisses during silent parts in my audio and video went to complete blackness, my video looks 1000% better, with no snow or lines, and I feel secure knowing that my Panamax will either fix or shut everything down if the power drops too low or goes too high, not to mention the insurance in case something does fry!

Maybe before you guys slam something, you should understand a little more about what it's designed to do, and how much you should expect from cheap electronics. Many times, you get what you pay for!

I'm posting this not to slam, but to educate! :)