Anybody play 78's ??

[Mr Peabody]

I know a guy who has about 2500 78rpm records and believe it or not he don't have anything to play them on or good hi fi gear at all. He also has about 800 albums (33 1/3). He recently brought some albums and CD's over and I played them on my system for him. He didn't want to go home. I have a feeling he is going to be wanting me to help him put a system together. I don't know much about 78's but from just looking at what turntables are available to play 78's I got the impression that there's more to it than just dropping the needle and listening. I wondered if some of this was hype to push a certain table or are there real concerns?

I read that 78 rpm record speed actually varies from disc to disc and a speed control would be necessary for best, or accurate, playback. I found the Rega 78 which I understand does not have this feature but I trust Rega to make a good table. I found a Thorens model, but for some reason I was reading on another board posts that didn't say good things about Thorens. One dealer I contacted recommended Esoterik or Rodine but I'm not familiar with them, nor did I get prices.

I plan to do some more research but also want to see if any of you already play 78's and can share some experience.

thanks

[jrhymeammo]

How about a cheapest Pro-Ject TT you can find then get a SpeedBox SE. You can adjust it to 78rpm, and also adjust speed by using their pitch control. Kinda Expensive doe....but not bad for playing 2,500 78s. http://sumikoaudio.net/project/products/speedboxse.htm

-jayra

[Mr Peabody]

How does the Speedbox work? I'd probably show him some nicer stuff first. There's a place that sells used turntables where I could get an old one that plays 78's if he wants to go cheap. With a library like that I think it would be worth bringing all you can out of the grooves.

That reminds me of something else I read, a blurp on 78's grooves being cut at a different angle. I got the impression from the comments that some are straight up & down, where others may be slanted. Ever hear of that?

[Mr Peabody]

clarification, I was talking about vertical and lateral cut 78's when i was talking about grooves. The Rondine 3 is a model of Esoteric Sound turntables.

Any opinions on Esoteric. I don't hear their name much, if any, around turntable discussions.

[SlumpBuster]

Yeah, I have some experience with 78s. Frankly, I would go with the Esoteric, especially with such a large collection. 78rpm is an approximation, the speeds actually very depending on the record lable. Esoteric tables handle all the speeds and come with an index of speeds for the various lables.

78 use a differenct stylus, so you'll want two different headshells. One loaded with a standard stylus and one loaded with a 78 stylus. The Esoteric tables have detachable head shells just like a DJ table for that very purpose.

Finally, Esoteric tables handle lateral vs. vertical cut with a flip of a switch.

These are the tables that are specifically designed for 78s. Why go anywhere else? Oh, and prices are no secret: http://www.esotericsound.com/turntable1.htm

[Resident Loser]

...on the intent...Does he want to try for the highest of fi or is it simply for archival purposes?

Keep in mind many of the really old 78s may have been played on wind-up machines, using steel or cactus "needles" and reproduced through mechanical means i.e. megaphones...Were the recorders running at 78? Or was that simple a "nominal" number? The idea was to get the performance delivered and for the time, that was enough...

As things progressed into the electric era, there were ceramic carts with tracking forces that would send shivers down the spines of our modern-day audio-types...

Then there's the problem with playback equalization...Until standardized by the RIAA, it was sorta' every man for himself...If you've ever seen early hi-fi gear you will most likely see a switch with 5 or 6 positions, reflecting each recording company's curve...

If the need for fi is high, one of the Esoteric/Rek-O-Kut/Rondine units may be in order...Hopefully the bad word-of-mouth on Thorens is just typical been-ther-done-that audiophool blather, as Thorens was one of the pre-eminent brands in vinyl's heyday...I wonder if a tuning fork is used to set the speed on these variable TTs or if it's just "done by ear"?

Me...I have an old BSR McDonald/Heathkit changer used in manual mode...the cart is a Stanton 681EE outfitted with a 2.7mil conical stylus and cross-wired to produce a mono signal...It works for me, even with all the clicks and pops, Caruso is Caruso, Crosby is Crosby, the Mills Brothers are still the Mills brothers and Carl Perkins continues to warn folks about his blue suede shoes...pitch and speed? I'm not that nit-picky...

jimHJJ(...and after all, it's the music that matters...)

[nobody]

I listen to 78s a bit, but I listened to them a lot more when I had a changer. If he's wanting ultimate sound quality, he won't get it with a changer, but if he just wants to listen to a lot of great music, its hard to beat a changer for 78s, considering you're talking about having to turn over or switch the record everty three minutes or so otherwise. You can get really technical with both multiple equalization cutrves and speed variance, but in my opinion, if you're looking for an ultimate Hi Fi experience, 78s ain't the way to go. 78s are about great old music.

I had an old Garrard A70 that was really great for 78s for a while, but got rid of it instead of fixing it when it had a short. Besides, my table now is better for LPs. But, without the changer, I rarely want to take the trouble to listen to the 78s anymore. One of these days when I have more room for gear, I'm looking forward to finding another old changer like that and dragging out the 78s again. But, for now, I rarely listen to them...just too much trouble...although I do have a nice Fats Waller album and some King Cole Trio discs that I still drag out now and then.

Oh...and the Grado 78 cartridge was really good...much better than using the 78 needle on an Ortofon OM body that I use now. Should have kept that baby rather than letting it go with the table.

[Resident Loser]

...the way I read it, the speedbox thingee will only work with Pro-ject TTs or others that use wall-warts w/16VAC outputs...plus to make it usable @78RPM, an optional pulley must be installed on the TT...and I'm sure it is intended strictly for use with that brand.

VPI has a unit for a cool grand or so which will probably do the trick as it controls the line frequency, which is the only way to speed-adjust the synchronous 120VAC motors commonly used in TTs...

As nobody alluded to, 78s are more about the archival performance than stellar hi-fi presentation...

jimHJJ(...maybe he should look into a vintage Gramophone for the ultimate in retro experience...)

[Mr Peabody]

I'll have to fill him in on the options and see what he is willing to do. That was a good point about the play time. He may be better off looking for some kind of vintage player and just going hi fi for his other sources. It is interesting how in depth Esoteric gets and how wildly the speed varies. It seems there were even format (speed) war back then. 33 1/3 was invented about 25 years before it broke into consumer electronics. It's "micro-groove". This little research project has been fun and I've learned a lot. Of course, some, when there was nothing, is a lot :)

[basite]

didn't technics have upgrades for their sl tt's so they can spin 78's? i thinks so, maybe look after that...

Greetings,
Bert Hellemans aka Basite.