Jazz afficianados - Which version of Coltrane's "Blue Train"?

[kexodusc]

As the title suggests, I'm looking to purchase this CD (or SACD if there's one available). But gosh darn it there's a lot of versions out there.
Any suggestions?
:16:

[Davey]

One of my favorites. I just have the old Classic Records 24/96 DVD, but it sounds amazing. Report is that it sounds much better than the SACD, and the newer Classic 24/192 HDAD is supposed to be even a step closer to the good thing. The one I have puts me totally in the session, so can't imagine it much better. Compared it one time to the RVG remaster and was shocked how much he sacrificed for his new, and mostly mono, vision of these records. Sad really. The stereo spread is extreme on the original, and on the Classic, but each player and each instrument lives and breathes in their own space. Some of the best digital I've heard, highly addictive, but I'm sure, highly system dependent as well. Same goes for Canonball's Somethin' Else. Man, good stuff. Close you're eyes and you go back 50 years, like a time machine.

[bobsticks]

Damn, I like the RVG if only for the playing. I wasn't figuring on the classic having "some of the best digital".I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the info Davey.

[MindGoneHaywire]

As I don't consider myself an audiophile I try to stay out of threads like this...the main reason being either I can't offer much, or it ends up not being of interest to me. A secondary reason being, there always seems to be some curmudgeon who shouts "The VINYL is the best issue!" With specifics, of course.

But I do have to say that the one I liked best was my old LP, which I bought on the street nearly 20 years ago for $2. It was a 1964 pressing. Sorry I can't be of more help. I've had 2 on CD, the one I have now is from 9 or 10 years ago & has 2 bonus tracks plus some multimedia file that never worked properly. Oh, well.

[jrhymeammo]

there always seems to be some curmudgeon who shouts "The VINYL is the best issue!"
Ahhhhhhh!!!! you beat me to it.

200gram audiophile reissues are crap. I dont understand it at all. I would rather get a decent overpriced original/1st reissue than cheaper APressings. Am I the only who feel this way? They are just lifeless.

[Davey]

Damn, I like the RVG if only for the playing. I wasn't figuring on the classic having "some of the best digital".I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the info Davey.
Well, it is one of those YMMV type of things, some say the Classic Records releases are too bright, and I think almost everyone thinks the RVG remasters are too bright, and that was the source for the SACD as well. To me, the Classic sounds great, and has a lot of that liquid sound we always hope for, with the black background, and soft natural images that aren't etched in space, but I've always leaned toward components that handle highs naturally, and many (if not most) high end components don't. I think RVG mic'd many of these Blue Notes pretty aggressively, so they are meant to get in your face just a little at times, but this one still sound pretty smooth to me.

[C-Z]

made a machine by describing the landscape - click here for the noise

wow. I clecked THERE, and I really like the noise. Does that mean I like Califone?

[Woochifer]

Wow, good question. I own three versions -- the Classic 96/24 DAD, a Blue Note DMM reissue LP from 1993, and the 1997 enhanced CD version. I've been going back and forth between the 96/24 disc and the LP, especially since I've gone back to an Ortofon cart on my turntable.

The 96/24 disc is definitely on the bright side, but it has some amazing detail all the way across the frequency range and the highs are very smooth, not the harsh metallic edge that bad digital transfers will give you. Bernie Grundman supervised the transfer, and he used a first pressing vault copy playback as the reference. The LP version that I have rolls off the highs a little bit, but has a great sense of immediacy with the horn instruments. Classic Records has also issued both 180g and 200g vinyl versions of this album if you needed even more options to go with!

The enhanced CD transfer is also pretty good in its own right, but compared to the LP and 96/24 versions, it seems more detached. In some ways though, the CD has the least fatiguing sound.

The three versions that I have don't include the major changes that the Blue Note RVG remastered CDs incorporate. While I like the RPV remasters that I've purchased, the Blue Train RVG remaster also tinkers with the mixdown. Rudy Van Gelder says that it more accurately reflects his original vision for the album, but fans have been listening to the original mix for over 40 years.

I've intended to get the SACDs for A Love Supreme and Blue Train, but have yet to pull the trigger. I have no idea if the SACD sounds more like the original mix or more like the RVG remaster.

If you're looking for one version to get, I would start with the Classic Records version. But, hopefully others can chime in on the other versions.

[Davey]

made a machine by describing the landscape - click here for the noise
wow. I clecked THERE, and I really like the noise. Does that mean I like Califone?
Don't know how anyone couldn't, but people are strange. That "When Leon Spinx moved into town" song is a good summary of their sound, but definitely not all encompassing. They do some more traditional folk at times, and other times get chugging with some heavy Stones rif***e, but that mix of folk and blues and funk and electronics is what makes them pretty special to me. The new one is muy excellente, probably album of the year for me and many others. Near universal acclaim. There's an old favorite from their first proper album as Califone (Roomsound) that I comped a few times around here called "Bottles & Bones (Shade & Sympathy)", just a great song, and I heard it makes an appearance on the soundtrack for Will Ferrel's new film "Stranger Than Fiction". They really deserve attention, and this new album is starting to get it. Real nice review at ... http://cokemachineglow.com/reviews/califone_rootsandcrowns2006.html

[kexodusc]

Wow, good question. I own three versions -- the Classic 96/24 DAD, a Blue Note DMM reissue LP from 1993, and the 1997 enhanced CD version. I've been going back and forth between the 96/24 disc and the LP, especially since I've gone back to an Ortofon cart on my turntable.

The 96/24 disc is definitely on the bright side, but it has some amazing detail all the way across the frequency range and the highs are very smooth, not the harsh metallic edge that bad digital transfers will give you. Bernie Grundman supervised the transfer, and he used a first pressing vault copy playback as the reference. The LP version that I have rolls off the highs a little bit, but has a great sense of immediacy with the horn instruments. Classic Records has also issued both 180g and 200g vinyl versions of this album if you needed even more options to go with!

The enhanced CD transfer is also pretty good in its own right, but compared to the LP and 96/24 versions, it seems more detached. In some ways though, the CD has the least fatiguing sound.

The three versions that I have don't include the major changes that the Blue Note RVG remastered CDs incorporate. While I like the RPV remasters that I've purchased, the Blue Train RVG remaster also tinkers with the mixdown. Rudy Van Gelder says that it more accurately reflects his original vision for the album, but fans have been listening to the original mix for over 40 years.

I've intended to get the SACDs for A Love Supreme and Blue Train, but have yet to pull the trigger. I have no idea if the SACD sounds more like the original mix or more like the RVG remaster.

If you're looking for one version to get, I would start with the Classic Records version. But, hopefully others can chime in on the other versions.

Wow.

Okay, I'm admittedly new to some of this stuff, the labels, producers etc, and have only recently begun exploring pre-1990's Jazz more heavily (Spyro Gyra, was as deep as my ol' rock-world ears good dig). Funny, the only time I ever really liked Jazz was when I was playing it. About 2 months ago or so my ears just "grew up" or something and I can't get enough of it. Lucky me, I haven't been this exited about music in awhile.

I posted this thread to help me along my journey. I'd love to find a good "jazz primer" of what albums to buy etc, but that's proven difficult to find. I learned years ago when I was getting into Classical music that the version of the album was every bit as important as musical piece itself. There's some terrible recordings of Holst's "The Planets" out there.

Went through that again with "Kind of Blue" on CD. Bought it at a used CD store, took it home. Loved the music, hated the mix. So I traded up for the SACD and Dual Disc versions at the same store. (oddly enough I prefer the gimmicky Dual-Disc version of Kind of Blue to the SACD, not as harsh sounding).

Guess I was leaning towards the Hybrid SACD for "Blue Train", but I'll see if I can't find the DVD-A version.

Thanks again everyone!

[Resident Loser]

...nearly everything Van Gelder did in Hackensack was mono as, per an interview I've read, the studio only had mono playback facilities...and that even when his recorder was upgraded to a stereo unit they never listened in stereo.

Here's a link to a previous thread re: this subject, which contains a link to the Van Gelder interview:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=160574

jjimHJJ(...FWIW...)

[Woochifer]

Wow.

Okay, I'm admittedly new to some of this stuff, the labels, producers etc, and have only recently begun exploring pre-1990's Jazz more heavily (Spyro Gyra, was as deep as my ol' rock-world ears good dig). Funny, the only time I ever really liked Jazz was when I was playing it. About 2 months ago or so my ears just "grew up" or something and I can't get enough of it. Lucky me, I haven't been this exited about music in awhile.

I posted this thread to help me along my journey. I'd love to find a good "jazz primer" of what albums to buy etc, but that's proven difficult to find. I learned years ago when I was getting into Classical music that the version of the album was every bit as important as musical piece itself. There's some terrible recordings of Holst's "The Planets" out there.

Went through that again with "Kind of Blue" on CD. Bought it at a used CD store, took it home. Loved the music, hated the mix. So I traded up for the SACD and Dual Disc versions at the same store. (oddly enough I prefer the gimmicky Dual-Disc version of Kind of Blue to the SACD, not as harsh sounding).

Guess I was leaning towards the Hybrid SACD for "Blue Train", but I'll see if I can't find the DVD-A version.

Thanks again everyone!

Congrats on finding your way into the jazz section! The great thing about getting into older jazz recordings is just how much great music you can mine through. If you're looking for some primers to get started with, I would actually look at some of the compilations released in conjunction with Ken Burns' Jazz documentary. They were budget priced and should still be fairly easy to find. They provide a good survey of the landscape, and some good points for further exploration.

Otherwise, I think some good places to start would be as follows:

middle period John Coltrane (his quartet pieces on Impulse Records with Jimmy Garrison, McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones): Coltrane, Live at Birdland, Live at the Village Vanguard, and[/i] A Love Supreme[/i] are just a few of the standout recordings that this group did between about 1962 and 1965. His later stuff pushed the boundaries with more free jazz influences (atonal keys, and off-timings) that are a lot more challenging to the listener.

hard bop from the Blue Note stable: this would include guys like Freddie Hubbard, Horace Silver, Hank Mobley, and Art Blakey

early electric Miles Davis: In A Silent Way, B*tches Brew, and A Tribute to Jack Johnson ushered in the jazz fusion era, and effectively ended acoustic jazz's tenure as a mainstream music genre; a lot of people HATE these albums and forevermore curse Miles for taking jazz more in a rock direction, but IMO these albums have some wildly inventive music and introduced some incredible musicians who would later define the fusion era such as Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Jack DeJohnette, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham, Dave Holland, and Sonny Sharrock.

bebop from the Fantasy Records labels (including Riverside, Prestige, and Original Jazz Classics): too many artists and albums to list from them, but they carried a huge number of the early recordings from the likes of Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Wes Montgomery, Cannonball Adderley, Modern Jazz Quartet, and Thelonious Monk. They also maintain one of the best stocked, cataloged, and preserved master tape archives anywhere. They issue plenty of compilations as well as LPs, and hybrid CD/SACDs at very reasonable prices. I would also recommend their K2-mastered CDs (these use the same mastering process as JVC's much more expensive XRCDs).

As much as I like to recommend that you hunt out the vinyl versions, the sad reality is that nowadays the LPs typically cost more than the CDs (except for Fantasy Records' titles, which refreshingly have held the line on pricing). Used vinyl's always a crap shoot with the condition, and the newer 200g LPs typically cost $30+. With a lot of these older jazz titles, I would avoid the first generation CDs if you find them in a used bin.

The early Blue Note CDs I recall sounding very metallic and harsh. While the RVG remasters often get derided for sounding overly bright, the ones I've heard are not nearly as fatiguing as those earlier versions. To my ears, they really tamed the harshness, while keeping the forward edge on the horns. The other nice thing about the RVG remasters is that they are easy to find for under $10, they often include previously unreleased alternate takes, and the titles that have been remastered represent some of the better titles from Blue Note's very extensive back catalog.

If you're willing to pony up more, I would definitely recommend Classic Records' 96/24 Blue Note reissues. You don't need a DVD-A player to play them, and even the newer 192/24 versions are actually flipper discs with the MLP-encoded side on one side, and the open DVD-V compatible side (playable on any DVD player) on the other.

[paul_pci]

Wow.

Okay, I'm admittedly new to some of this stuff, the labels, producers etc, and have only recently begun exploring pre-1990's Jazz more heavily (Spyro Gyra, was as deep as my ol' rock-world ears good dig). Funny, the only time I ever really liked Jazz was when I was playing it. About 2 months ago or so my ears just "grew up" or something and I can't get enough of it. Lucky me, I haven't been this exited about music in awhile.

I posted this thread to help me along my journey. I'd love to find a good "jazz primer" of what albums to buy etc, but that's proven difficult to find. I learned years ago when I was getting into Classical music that the version of the album was every bit as important as musical piece itself. There's some terrible recordings of Holst's "The Planets" out there.

Went through that again with "Kind of Blue" on CD. Bought it at a used CD store, took it home. Loved the music, hated the mix. So I traded up for the SACD and Dual Disc versions at the same store. (oddly enough I prefer the gimmicky Dual-Disc version of Kind of Blue to the SACD, not as harsh sounding).

Guess I was leaning towards the Hybrid SACD for "Blue Train", but I'll see if I can't find the DVD-A version.

Thanks again everyone!


I'm reading this thread with particular interest because I'd like to get a jazz collection going myself. I believe you can find the DVD-A version at www.musicdirect.com. I might pick this up myself at some point.

[C-Z]

Don't know how anyone couldn't, but people are strange. That "When Leon Spinx moved into town" song is a good summary of their sound, but definitely not all encompassing. They do some more traditional folk at times, and other times get chugging with some heavy Stones rif***e, but that mix of folk and blues and funk and electronics is what makes them pretty special to me. The new one is muy excellente, probably album of the year for me and many others. Near universal acclaim. There's an old favorite from their first proper album as Califone (Roomsound) that I comped a few times around here called "Bottles & Bones (Shade & Sympathy)", just a great song, and I heard it makes an appearance on the soundtrack for Will Ferrel's new film "Stranger Than Fiction". They really deserve attention, and this new album is starting to get it. Real nice review at ... http://cokemachineglow.com/reviews/califone_rootsandcrowns2006.html

Thanks - I'm going to score "Roots and Crowns", and dance madly backwards if it hits me right.

[kexodusc]

Congrats on finding your way into the jazz section! The great thing about getting into older jazz recordings is just how much great music you can mine through. If you're looking for some primers to get started with, I would actually look at some of the compilations released in conjunction with Ken Burns' Jazz documentary. They were budget priced and should still be fairly easy to find. They provide a good survey of the landscape, and some good points for further exploration.

Otherwise, I think some good places to start would be as follows:

middle period John Coltrane (his quartet pieces on Impulse Records with Jimmy Garrison, McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones): Coltrane, Live at Birdland, Live at the Village Vanguard, and[/i] A Love Supreme[/i] are just a few of the standout recordings that this group did between about 1962 and 1965. His later stuff pushed the boundaries with more free jazz influences (atonal keys, and off-timings) that are a lot more challenging to the listener.

hard bop from the Blue Note stable: this would include guys like Freddie Hubbard, Horace Silver, Hank Mobley, and Art Blakey

early electric Miles Davis: In A Silent Way, B*tches Brew, and A Tribute to Jack Johnson ushered in the jazz fusion era, and effectively ended acoustic jazz's tenure as a mainstream music genre; a lot of people HATE these albums and forevermore curse Miles for taking jazz more in a rock direction, but IMO these albums have some wildly inventive music and introduced some incredible musicians who would later define the fusion era such as Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Jack DeJohnette, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham, Dave Holland, and Sonny Sharrock.

bebop from the Fantasy Records labels (including Riverside, Prestige, and Original Jazz Classics): too many artists and albums to list from them, but they carried a huge number of the early recordings from the likes of Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Wes Montgomery, Cannonball Adderley, Modern Jazz Quartet, and Thelonious Monk. They also maintain one of the best stocked, cataloged, and preserved master tape archives anywhere. They issue plenty of compilations as well as LPs, and hybrid CD/SACDs at very reasonable prices. I would also recommend their K2-mastered CDs (these use the same mastering process as JVC's much more expensive XRCDs).

As much as I like to recommend that you hunt out the vinyl versions, the sad reality is that nowadays the LPs typically cost more than the CDs (except for Fantasy Records' titles, which refreshingly have held the line on pricing). Used vinyl's always a crap shoot with the condition, and the newer 200g LPs typically cost $30+. With a lot of these older jazz titles, I would avoid the first generation CDs if you find them in a used bin.

The early Blue Note CDs I recall sounding very metallic and harsh. While the RVG remasters often get derided for sounding overly bright, the ones I've heard are not nearly as fatiguing as those earlier versions. To my ears, they really tamed the harshness, while keeping the forward edge on the horns. The other nice thing about the RVG remasters is that they are easy to find for under $10, they often include previously unreleased alternate takes, and the titles that have been remastered represent some of the better titles from Blue Note's very extensive back catalog.

If you're willing to pony up more, I would definitely recommend Classic Records' 96/24 Blue Note reissues. You don't need a DVD-A player to play them, and even the newer 192/24 versions are actually flipper discs with the MLP-encoded side on one side, and the open DVD-V compatible side (playable on any DVD player) on the other.

Hey, thanks for the great advice. The obvious stuff like T. Monk, W. Montgomery, Davis, Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Charles Mingus, I already have a disc or two of. But you're right, there's an enormous back catalog of classics to go through, quite exciting actually. I went through this about 10 years ago when I started exploring the blues.

I'm not opposed to LP's, but finding them is a challenge. I'd sooner go with SACD, DVD-A, or CD. CD's are at least cheap and plentiful. I'm not so anal that I won't EQ any harshness or undesirable tonal characteristics to make it the most pleasing to my ears. Later on, if I deem it worthy, I'll upgrade to a better format. I've gone through this with a ton of classical recordings. Usually I can tolerate the bad mix and get right into the music.

You've given me a few names that are new to me..I usually prefer not to go the compilation route. Guess I'm a bit anal that way, but I find a lot of songs work best in the context of the entire album. Slow and steady I guess, I'll just keep sampling and buying a bit at a time. Recommendations from others are always the best way.
Thanks again!

[jrhymeammo]

Well, I'm a huge Rudy Van Gelder/Jazz/Cover designer fan. Great arts and photos. Not just Reid Miles and Fracis Wolff, there are others such as Andy Warhol did a handful of covers. Ornette Coleman uses one of his own painting for the Empty Foxhole album. Not a fanatic or anything though. I love swapping different album covers on my LP Album Frames I have on my walls. Better than any shjtty $500 art I can get at a Pottery Barn. Anyways..., get this book called, Album Cover Art the Ultimate Collection, Blue Note. It has about 400 album covers. If you are not into Album Covers then great. But 90% of those albums are incredible to listen to.

-JRA

[jrhymeammo]

I know I'm gonna catch some heat by saying this.
Dont even consider getting Coltrane. If you are coming from listening to alot of Rock, then go for it. I have about a dozen albums by Coltrane and they are pretty lame and boring. How about,
Sonny Stitt
Hank Mobley
Joe Henderson
Gene Ammon
Buddy Tate
Frank Wess
Frank Morgan
Art Pepper
Pepper Adam
Cannonball Adderle
Charles McPherson
and OLIVER NELSON!!!

I think I've opnly coverd about 0.5% of great saxists.
I hope I live long enough to hear at least 50% of Jazz albums. Not enough time and there are other areas I wanna live also. AH CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-JRA

[kexodusc]

I know I'm gonna catch some heat by saying this.
Dont even consider getting Coltrane. If you are coming from listening to alot of Rock, then go for it. I have about a dozen albums by Coltrane and they are pretty lame and boring. How about,
Sonny Stitt
Hank Mobley
Joe Henderson
Gene Ammon
Buddy Tate
Frank Wess
Frank Morgan
Art Pepper
Pepper Adam
Cannonball Adderle
Charles McPherson
and OLIVER NELSON!!!

LOL. I've already got some Coltrane. A dozen albums, huh? One would think after the first boring Coltrane album, one would quit buying them...

[jrhymeammo]

LOL. I've already got some Coltrane. A dozen albums, huh? One would think after the first boring Coltrane album, one would quit buying them...

LOL also since my friends tell me the same thing. I keep going back and hope to hear what people are so crazy about. He's got alot of albums out, but I dont think I'm outta element to comment on the hype.
Like I said there are crap load of albums out there. Good thing there are Jazz outside of Coltrane and Rollings. Personal preference is all.

-JRA

[Woochifer]

Hey, thanks for the great advice. The obvious stuff like T. Monk, W. Montgomery, Davis, Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Charles Mingus, I already have a disc or two of. But you're right, there's an enormous back catalog of classics to go through, quite exciting actually. I went through this about 10 years ago when I started exploring the blues.

I'm not opposed to LP's, but finding them is a challenge. I'd sooner go with SACD, DVD-A, or CD. CD's are at least cheap and plentiful. I'm not so anal that I won't EQ any harshness or undesirable tonal characteristics to make it the most pleasing to my ears. Later on, if I deem it worthy, I'll upgrade to a better format. I've gone through this with a ton of classical recordings. Usually I can tolerate the bad mix and get right into the music.

You've given me a few names that are new to me..I usually prefer not to go the compilation route. Guess I'm a bit anal that way, but I find a lot of songs work best in the context of the entire album. Slow and steady I guess, I'll just keep sampling and buying a bit at a time. Recommendations from others are always the best way.
Thanks again!

You're welcome, in a way I'm jealous of you because I remember what it felt like discovering this vast library of incredible music for the first time.

On top of the huge jazz back catalog, the record labels have recently been churning out "newly discovered" recordings (Coltrane alone had two previously unreleased live recordings go #1 on the jazz chart last year -- his Carnegie Hall concert with Thelonious Monk, and a club gig originally broadcast live on NY radio) and alternate takes that are often every bit as compelling as the original album version. Even with albums that I already own, these reissues often provide further insights into familiar albums.

In general, nowadays I would look to CDs if you're trying to populate a jazz collection. They're the cheapest and most widely available option, they often include alternate takes, and the recent remasters on nearly all labels represent a big improvement over earlier versions. When I first got into jazz in the late-80s, I primarily bought jazz albums on vinyl because LPs back then were a lot cheaper than CDs (that so many first generation CDs sounded lousy was a side benefit to going vinyl), and a lot of classic jazz albums had not yet migrated to CD. Nowadays, it seems that Fantasy Records' labels are the only ones that still put out reasonably priced LPs. Everything else is either out on premium-priced audiophile limited editions, or used LPs with highly variable condition and pressing quality.

If you're set on discovering Miles Davis, Columbia has been putting together some absolutely insane boxed sets that try to capture particular time periods in their entirety (at least during his time at Columbia). This would include not only the original album material from that period, but also rehearsal sessions/outtakes, and live performances. With The Complete B*tches Brew Sessions and The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions, the boxed set also includes extended sessions that were later reassembled with other elements and overdubbed to create the album versions.

http://www.miles-davis.com/index2.html

[MindGoneHaywire]

Hate to be a stickler, but I don't really think it's accurate to think of last year's release of the Monk band with Coltrane, as a Coltrane album.

The One Up, One Down was the Coltrane quartet, though. And in spite of a couple of sound issues, I prefer it by a wide margin. The Monk date sounds just a bit stiff. Maybe because it was a band used to playing in smaller clubs, not Carnegie Hall. Certainly not a bad rec, but just kinda underwhelming for me considering the hype, and especially in contrast to the double live CD. Which is from Coltrane's later period, not my favorite, but it's just a killer performance.

[kexodusc]

You're welcome, in a way I'm jealous of you because I remember what it felt like discovering this vast library of incredible music for the first time.



I think you're right about the CD's being the easiest format to build a library on. Though one nice thing about SACD's and DVD-A's, usually only established, well respected albums get remastered on these formats. In that regard they're a bit less risky. I can usually get my local store to order them for me for not much of a price premium. Gotta justify owning 2 universal players anyway.

Ugh...so much music, so little money. I'm off to Australia to visit my wife on Friday, and just finished roofing my house, so cash flow's a tight for the next little while. Hopefully I'll keep stumbling on some gems at some used music stores.

If not, I've got a lot of time to read about jazz, anyway.

[Duds]

I've been listening to a lot of Coltrane lately. I like it on Sunday mornings while drinking my coffee. I just got a 6 cd box set called "Fearless Leader" that is excellent, at least to me. Great packaging and a very nice book inside that I havent read yet.

I'm certainly not a Coltrane or jazz expert, just thought I'd mention this set as I found it to be nice.

I also have the sacd version of "A Love Supreme" and it is fantastic!

[JoeE SP9]

Well, I'm a huge Rudy Van Gelder/Jazz/Cover designer fan. Great arts and photos. Not just Reid Miles and Fracis Wolff, there are others such as Andy Warhol did a handful of covers. Ornette Coleman uses one of his own painting for the Empty Foxhole album. Not a fanatic or anything though. I love swapping different album covers on my LP Album Frames I have on my walls. Better than any shjtty $500 art I can get at a Pottery Barn. Anyways..., get this book called, Album Cover Art the Ultimate Collection, Blue Note. It has about 400 album covers. If you are not into Album Covers then great. But 90% of those albums are incredible to listen to.

-JRA

CTI used to sell limited edition poster reprints of their album covers. Unfortunately I only bought one of them. It's the cover from George Benson's Body Talk. BTW if you only know Benson by his recordings while singing, you should give Body Talk a listen. It was recorded befor the record companies asked him to sing. He can really PLAY!!!!:ihih:

[jrhymeammo]

CTI used to sell limited edition poster reprints of their album covers. Unfortunately I only bought one of them. It's the cover from George Benson's Body Talk. BTW if you only know Benson by his recordings while singing, you should give Body Talk a listen. It was recorded befor the record companies asked him to sing. He can really PLAY!!!!:ihih:

HI Joe. I hope everything is great on your side.

This is another thing that's been killing me. Creed Tayler with Rudy? I thought this was gonna be the biggest thing for me about 3 years ago. I have yet to come across any titles that I'm crazy about. Seems like all the artist I dont really care about ended up that label too. The artists that come to mind is Wes, Benson, Herbie Mann( i think), Turrentine, Bob James, and Freddie Hubbard. They are all great musicians, but I can't get into them. Maybe it's just the era they were recorded. As you've mentioned, CTI covers are pretty famous also. I never really found them fascinating either. I do enjoy Turrentine on the BlueNote. I have about 6 I think. Not that he's gets my juice going or anything, but I love performers who usually played with him. Benson never interested me either. Funny enough, I did pickup a copy at a library today for yet another chance.

You'll be happy shopping in my area. I see CTI lables everywhere.
p.s. I own 2 brown tshirts with a big yellow CTI Records lable. I wear it to this hiphop show everytime I got see this group called the People Under the Stairs
Does this remind of you anything? http://www.urbansmarts.com/reviews/vinyl/images/droopylove.jpg

PEACE

[Woochifer]

CTI used to sell limited edition poster reprints of their album covers. Unfortunately I only bought one of them. It's the cover from George Benson's Body Talk. BTW if you only know Benson by his recordings while singing, you should give Body Talk a listen. It was recorded befor the record companies asked him to sing. He can really PLAY!!!!:ihih:

Yup, one of those situations where Benson's tremendous popularity as a pop/soul singer obscures how great a guitarist he is. I remember taking a jazz development class in college, and the prof surprised a lot of people in that class when he mentioned Benson alongside Django Reinhart and Wes Montgomery among the most important jazz guitarists. He said that there's a lot more to George Benson than just what gets played on mainstream radio. I guess if Benson had focused just on straight jazz, it would elevate his stature as a "serious" musician. But, he's adept with so many styles, and a damn good vocalist to boot, it's hard to stick with just one area.

Kind of similar to how the Pat Metheny Group standards that get saturation play on "smooth jazz" stations obscure how diverse and adventurous his music actually is when you look at the entire body of work.

[JoeE SP9]

HI Joe. I hope everything is great on your side.

This is another thing that's been killing me. Creed Tayler with Rudy? I thought this was gonna be the biggest thing for me about 3 years ago. I have yet to come across any titles that I'm crazy about. Seems like all the artist I dont really care about ended up that label too. The artists that come to mind is Wes, Benson, Herbie Mann( i think), Turrentine, Bob James, and Freddie Hubbard. They are all great musicians, but I can't get into them. Maybe it's just the era they were recorded. As you've mentioned, CTI covers are pretty famous also. I never really found them fascinating either. I do enjoy Turrentine on the BlueNote. I have about 6 I think. Not that he's gets my juice going or anything, but I love performers who usually played with him. Benson never interested me either. Funny enough, I did pickup a copy at a library today for yet another chance.

You'll be happy shopping in my area. I see CTI lables everywhere.
p.s. I own 2 brown tshirts with a big yellow CTI Records lable. I wear it to this hiphop show everytime I got see this group called the People Under the Stairs
Does this remind of you anything? http://www.urbansmarts.com/reviews/vinyl/images/droopylove.jpg

PEACE

Where did you get the shirts? They would go good with my 300B and Bottlehead t-shirts.:ihih:

[jrhymeammo]

I bought it on EBay WHILE back. Here is one. http://cgi.ebay.com/CTI-RECORDS-T-SHIRT-VINTAGE-HIP-HOP-BREAKS-RAP-SAMPLES_W0QQitemZ150015776145QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15 687QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
But the one I have is brown with yellow the way it should be. But this gray and black looks cool too. I wish I could find mine in NOS.:cornut:

-JRA

[jrhymeammo]

Speaking of. I WISH I could find BlueNote one. I waited and waited, and when I did decide to purchase, they had changed the logo. I thought my life was over. You know the one that looks like the BlueNote NYC White lable?
JRA

Sorry to get off the track.

[jrhymeammo]

This is a good thread, except for the last 3 including this one.

Where is Joe? I miss that Ol' Dirty

JRA

[Feanor]

As the title suggests, I'm looking to purchase this CD (or SACD if there's one available). But gosh darn it there's a lot of versions out there.
Any suggestions?
:16:

Or which version is best since I have only one. That's the SACD version, Blue Train 41757, (bar 72435 417572 5). This is hybrid but not multi-channel. Sounds great to me.
...
http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/BlueTrain.jpg
(Sorry, pic is the standard CD version)

[jrhymeammo]

I also purchased that album. Great stuff, but not jaw dropping by any means.

Actually starting to enjoy coltrane more. Good thing I got so many