Michael Jackson...respect?

[PeruvianSkies]

So what is everyone's opinion on whether or not there will ever be an ounce of respect for Michael Jackon? I mean, will there ever be a moment again when we aren't ashamed to dust off our copy of Thiller and pop it in for a few spins?

[kexodusc]

I can listen to the music no problem at all - hit any club in any city and you're likely to hear Billy Jean or something by him still...
Think he'll always have some respect, in that regard.
The rest of the crap, well...I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he dude is more than a bit creepy.

[GMichael]

I gotta respect him for his talent. And I have no problem with listening to his music. Popping in one of his CD's is a good way to start up a conversation too.

[Dusty Chalk]

By "clubs", you mean "strip clubs", right?

And by "respect", you mean "mock derision", right?

Never really much cared for him (don't own any of his albums), stopped caring about him completely after "Black or White". "Thriller" was a good video, though.

[kexodusc]

By "clubs", you mean "strip clubs", right?

And by "respect", you mean "mock derision", right?

Never really much cared for him (don't own any of his albums), stopped caring about him completely after "Black or White". "Thriller" was a good video, though.

What the hell kind of strip clubs do you go to???

[bobsticks]

What the hell kind of strip clubs do you go to???

Dusty's going to the Captain Kangaroo-a-go-go...


I guess his music isn't horrible for background noise, and I like the guest shots with Slash and Steve Stevens ('ole Chrysanthymum-head) but, frankly, I'd rather drink urine from a shoe than be trapped in a room with the guy. Yech.

[BarryL]

He'll always get respect by those who are into the history of pop music and pop culture. The man practically owned the airwaves for about three years, and there was no entertainer even close to his superstar status. Sell-out concerts, number-one hits, zillions in ablum sales, Pepsi commercials, Disney contracts, etc.

But in the end, he's a tragic footnote, and based on his performance in the past ten years, he deserves about as much respect as former pop-superstar Cat Stevens who abandoned reality to lend support to Iran's Ayatolah Komanie and the fatwa against Salmon Rushdie. When people switch off thier brains, they deserve disrespect.

[Troy]

What Barry said.

Some of the Jackson 5 material is classic. ABC is an amazing pop song.

I've never owned a MJ album tho. In his heyday you didn't need to, it was everywhere, whether you wanted to hear it or not. I had heard enough really early on.

I'll never want to play a MJ album. But if you want to listen to Thriller, knock yourself out. There's no reason to be ashamed of listening to anything. Just because you listen to a Michael Jackson album doesn't make you a child molester. Listening to Clapton doesn't make you a junkie. Listening to Elton John doesn't make you gay, listening to Billy Joel doesn't make you a boorish drunk. It's just music. Enjoy yourself.

[DariusNYC]

Michael Jackson, solo and with the Jackson 5, is responsible for what is in my view (and I'm not expressing too radical of an opinion here) some of the greatest pop music ever made. Those Jackson 5 singles and much of the material on Michael's first two solo albums have few peers. Hello?: "I Want You Back", "ABC", "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Billie Jean", etc. And there are some flashes of greatness in the later stuff even. I really try to separate my views of the art from that of the artist -- some people I know have a harder time with that than I seem to, so I can see the contrary view.

[Dusty Chalk]

What the hell kind of strip clubs do you go to???You haven't lived until you've seen ...oh, what was her name? I forget...wasn't her real name, anyway...where was I? Oh yeah, Smooth Criminal I think it was. And she could do that loose body wave thing...(drifts off)...

[kexodusc]

You haven't lived until you've seen ...oh, what was her name? I forget...wasn't her real name, anyway...where was I? Oh yeah, Smooth Criminal I think it was. And she could do that loose body wave thing...(drifts off)...
I can just imagine Honey dancing to Heal the World, or Luscious performing to Remember The Time...

Well, it beats the typical Kickstart My Heart or Youth Gone Wild acts...

[SlumpBuster]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I bought MJ's last three records. Let's see there was Justified, then Goodies, and most recently FutureSex/LoveSounds. For some reason the liberal Hollywood elite insist on pretending that Ciara and Timberlake made those records. But they can't fool me. I know an MJ record when I hear one.

Mike might be flying his freak flag with all he's got, but Smooth Criminal has enough funk (or "smelly jelly" in creepy MJ speak) to make Chuck Manson look like an honorary Beach Boy.

[PeruvianSkies]

Hey everyone...

Thanks for making this post a highly interesting read. It's always a cool thing to see something you start turn into an thread full of some fine reading.

I listen to alot of MJ mostly because it's incredibly well recorded material and makes my speakers sing like crazy. I have the gold HIStory CD set and dang....Billy Jean never sounded better!!!! One of my best friends came over and I played it for him and the snap of the drum beat almost knocked him over...he couldn't believe it!!!

[SlumpBuster]

One of my best friends came over and I played it for him and the snap of the drum beat almost knocked him over...he couldn't believe it!!!


However, I can see how this could turn out to have unexpected implications:

Peru: "Hey man, you wanna come over and listen to some MJ with me?"

Friend: "Umm... what are you asking me, man?"

:cornut:

[JoeE SP9]

Listening to the MJ music I have can give me a lot of pleasure. His pop music has to be rated somewhere up there with the best ever recorded. The music is separate from the "man". I wouldn't let my pet monkey hang out with him.:ihih:

[BradH]

...listening to Billy Joel doesn't make you a boorish drunk.

No, but clinical tests have proven it deteriorates the lining inside your skull.

[GMichael]

I wouldn't let my pet monkey hang out with him.:ihih:

Would you spank him if he did?

[Slosh]

. . .but, frankly, I'd rather drink urine from a shoe than be trapped in a room with the guy. Yech.hehehe

ps- you might want to keep your fetishes to yourself :p

[Swish]

..that features Ben Affleck or Sean Penn. Just kinda gives you the creeps.

Swish

[bobsticks]

hehehe

ps- you might want to keep your fetishes to yourself :p

...and this coming from a guy with that sig? :ciappa:

[3-LockBox]

I still listen to MJ...Heartbreak Hotel (This place is) is a great song and no one...I mean no one...could dance like Mike...forget the moonwalk...I'm talking about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiF_KO1sLNs

[Dusty Chalk]

...no one...I mean no one...could dance like Mike...I don't know -- James Brown had some pretty smooth moves. There's a lot of carp on YouTube if you search on James Brown, but the opening sequence to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PHaPLQNmRc) gives you a taste of his abilities. Methinks that if there was no James Brown, there wouldn't have been no Michael Jackson.

Also, did you ever catch Prince in the middle of "Little Red Corvette" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIo-im6yfA8)? Admittedly, it's only for a couple seconds, but they're a couple of mindblowing seconds. He makes it look so easy -- like one of Jimi's licks between lines of a song.

L, even Hammer was a better dancer -- MHO (although, admittedly, a little worse with his finances -- we'll see if that's the case in the long run).

[3-LockBox]

Also, did you ever catch Prince in the middle of "Little Red Corvette" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIo-im6yfA8)?

Hey, you don't need to tell me about Prince:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFqoLm4bW_I&mode=related&search=

evidently, Prince was a tad influenced by JB as well.

[JoeE SP9]

I don't know -- James Brown had some pretty smooth moves. There's a lot of carp on YouTube if you search on James Brown, but the opening sequence to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PHaPLQNmRc) gives you a taste of his abilities. Methinks that if there was no James Brown, there wouldn't have been no Michael Jackson.

Also, did you ever catch Prince in the middle of "Little Red Corvette" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIo-im6yfA8)? Admittedly, it's only for a couple seconds, but they're a couple of mindblowing seconds. He makes it look so easy -- like one of Jimi's licks between lines of a song.

L, even Hammer was a better dancer -- MHO (although, admittedly, a little worse with his finances -- we'll see if that's the case in the long run).

I saw Prince on Saturday Night Live last season. He laid down some licks from his last CD that blew me away. I knew he could write sing and play. I didn't know he could PLAY!!!!:cool:

[MasterCylinder]

I believe THRILLER is a great pop album and that MJ has done nothing since.
I also believe that any "respect" of that same album should be targeted toward Quincy Jones; MJ was simply one of the tools Jones utilized to get the work done.

I "respect" MJ for his abibilty to perform -- singing and dancing.

As for his personal life, I think he is a sick piece of shyt; I'll bet $100 that the guy was sexually abused as a child.

[MindGoneHaywire]

I agree with Dusty; when I saw JB in 1993 he did some moves & then asked "I wonder where Michael got THAT from..."

I'm not big on much that MJ has done since Thriller either, but Quincy doesn't get all the credit in my book. A big part of that album's crossover success was Eddie Van Halen playing his solo on 'Beat It' live on, what was it, the Grammys? Maybe it was Quincy's idea to bring EVH on that rec, I don't know. If so, then credit is certainly deserved. But the performers did the performing. And another big reason was the success of the videos, which is another area that you have to question Quincy's level of involvement. But the wax itself is another story, and for that, by all means, he deserves plenty. But I almost find it hard to listen to the record without thinking of how popular it was, and that being something that almost overshadows the music itself.

Of course, looking at Off The Wall, it'd be a silly case to dismiss him...just trying to keep things in perspective. Also, as I'm not a big fan of post-Thriller MJ, I listen to the Jackson Five stuff, and the two Quincy Jones-produced albums. I prefer the J5, who I remember watching on Saturday mornings when I was a kid (but not for that reason); those are some remarkable performances on those 45s, and the live performances were pretty amazing too, especially considering the brothers didn't play on those records. But those aren't Berry Gordy's records, or Funk Brothers records, any more than Thriller is 'a Quincy Jones album.' Paul McCartney, who of course did a duet on Thriller, was miffed when Sgt. Pepper was described as being 'George Martin's best album.' Credit is good, but let's not go overboard, or next someone else might say that Quincy Jones is due all the respect for, say, 'It Might As Well Be Swing.' I have a feeling that wouldn't have gone down so well with Frank Sinatra, who also only sang, and didn't even dance (or make videos).

Also, he didn't write, and though MJ seems to have lifted an idea or two from obscure sources (a certain banned member of this board introduced me to a French 70s rock band that had written something MJ apparently lifted for one of the Thriller toons), he has writing credits on four of the biggest hits on the record. So, taking everything into consideration, to answer the original question in this thread, I have to hold MJ's music up to Thriller in very high regard. Since then, a toon here or there, but nothing I'd go back to unless I want to throw on the later material on History. As for his personal life? I try not to think about it, but knowing that something's likely very wrong there doesn't inspire me to listen more...but if I feel like listening to it, it doesn't stop me, either. Unfortunate, but it doesn't rise to the level of ruining the music I do like by the guy.

[nobody]

Never did like Thriller myself, although I did like Off the Wall...especially at the roller skating rink. And, of course, the Jackson 5 was great.

Thriller's always been one of those head scratchers for me...never quite got it.

And Prince was way better than Michael anyway for me...don't know about for dancing...'cause I don't realy care about that aspect...but I can't really ever remember a time wanting to hear Michael Jackson over Prince.

[BradH]

Thriller's always been one of those head scratchers for me...never quite got it.

Same here. I didn't think it was funky or soulful or anything other than bland. Never was much of an MJ fan outside of the J5. And Thriller was definitely in the middle of that competitive video era. Jay, forget about Eddie's crossover appeal. When the "Thriller" video was released, the lp shot back up to #1 where it had been before. That had never happened before and it knocked off Synchronicity too. Amazing. And Synchronicity itself was no doubt propelled to #1 by those Godley & Creme videos.

I don't think of MJ as an artist but as a performer/dancer/singer. I think of the working relationships between producers and performers in these cases are much like directors and actors in the film world. So, it's a bit much to say MJ was simply a tool for Quincy. But when it comes to comparisons with Prince, forget about it. That's so lopsided it's not even fair.

Btw, I remember, at the time, Thriller was seen by some as the culmination of the long, gradual shift from the Gordy/Detroit sound to the L.A. style of production. I think it was as much an achievement for Quincy as Michael. The George Martin/Sgt. Pepper case is often overstated but it was a co-equal artistic achievement between him and the Beatles.

Damn, Jay, now you've got me comparing Thriller to Sgt. Pepper's. I hope your happy.

[PeruvianSkies]

This has been a hugely interesting read as it would seem that there are essentially two camps on the matter, but almost everyone will agree to some extent that professionally the man is a genius or had some ingenius ideas and that personally he just can't seem to get his act together. However, my question is still this....

Is there an ounce of respect for someone like this??? Can we appreciate the music, but not the musician? I think so, but it's hard. It's easier to not like a persons music, but accept the person, rather than the opposite in this case.

So, what would we classify as MJ's greatest accomplishments as an artist???

[RGA]

By "clubs", you mean "strip clubs", right?

And by "respect", you mean "mock derision", right?

Never really much cared for him (don't own any of his albums), stopped caring about him completely after "Black or White". "Thriller" was a good video, though.


It was a good video because John Landis directed it ( He also directed An American Werewolf in London)

Jackson is and IMO always was a joke. I simply never could understand what anyone saw in this guy. His voice was grating - and his dancing while good is not exactly the Fred Astaire and Fred at least could sing.

Jackson's overproduced rubbish is mostly completely forgettable. Though he like Madonna keeps reinventing himself I guess -- into a child molester and just a general luney tunes. Madonna just stuck to selling sex. Michael has made Madonna look like a saint in comparison.

Jackson to me is maybe the most overrated hack in music history...and that was before the child stuff - he can buy his way out of jail --- but it;s not all him -- any parent that would send their kid within a mile of this putz has issues. Even if he were innocent (har har) a parent should STILL play it safe. Shame on them.

[BradH]

However, my question is still this....

Is there an ounce of respect for someone like this??? Can we appreciate the music, but not the musician?

I can appreciate someone's music and still have no respect for the musician as a person. I can think of several people that I might even pay to see but I still wouldn't walk across the street to talk to them for free. Conversely, just because someone is a nice or respectable person doesn't necessarily mean they're worth two flips as a musician or artist.

But an ounce of respect for someone like Michael Jackson? Not in this lifetime. Mikey and Bill Gates are still alive because Hell isn't warm enough yet.

[Dusty Chalk]

I simply never could understand what anyone saw in this guy. Pretty much where I'm coming from. Just not my cuppa. Does it matter whether or not he is a pedophile in real life? No, not to me. I could hardly care less before, I could hardly care less now.

[3-LockBox]

but it;s not all him -- any parent that would send their kid within a mile of this putz has issues. Even if he were innocent (har har) a parent should STILL play it safe. Shame on them.

Yeah...when they finally put MJ away for child molestation, by all means bring charges against the parents who have been pimping out their own kids to this guy.

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, until the story broke, it's not like they knew. But yeah, after the story broke, the parents lose their excuse.