Denon 2910 vs. 2930ci vs 1930ci?

[jimbo]

Hello,

I tried the 2910 about a year ago and thought it was pretty good but not really much better than my Sony ES DVD player so I returned it. My second DVD player for my bedroom broke so now I'm in need of a DVD player. I thought I could skimp and get the 1930CI but it really doesn't look as good as my Sony after a lot of tweaking. I'll probably return it but thought I'd find out how the 2930 compares to the 2910? Anyone here get a chance to compare?

On a small screen -e.g. 35" I don't notice much of a difference but when I go to 65" there is a HUGE difference. I tried both component and HDMI. The pictures look different, but neither comes close to my old Sony after a lot of tweaking however my old Sony is missing a lot of features on the Denon as the 9000es is about 5 years old. The component colors are much more vibrant but the HDMI is more acurate - I realize that isn't because link is necessarily better than the other but it is how they are implemented on a particular model.

I'm hoping the 2930 is better than the 2910 as I hear it is better for burned media but have no idea how it compares picture wise. I've yet to see one review that compares them visually. I've seen some dry spec comparisons but no actual visual comparision. I realize it is subjective but I doubt anyone comparing my old sony to the 1930 would say the 1930 looks better or even as good.

[edtyct]

After reading your question about the 2930, but not experiencing one myself, I was curious about what reputable reviewers had to say about it. The only review that turned up easily online was Matthew Moskovciak's at CNET. MM came to a conclusion that, I must admit, occurred to me sight unseen. Clearly, the 2930 shows standard DVDs at their very best. The Silicon Optix chip may be the prmary cause (it may also be what distinguishes the 2930 most from the Faroudja-based 2910). But although CNET's comparison of it with the less expensive Toshiba HD-A1 (HD/SD) and Oppo players showed the 2930 to be marginally smoother, it certainly didn't show it to be in a class totally by itself. At $500 to $600 less than the Denon, the Toshiba HD-A1 would not be much of a compromise so far as SD video is concerned, especially given its HD audio and video capability to sweeten the pot (and perhaps mitigate its painfully slow response time, which the second generation, appearing this month, may rectify). And even if the Toshiba didn't turn out to be your last hi def DVD player, it certainly wouldn't be a bad stop gap.

Or if the prospect of hi def on disk doesn't flip your skirt, the Oppo would provide the better part of the 2930's SD performance at a bare fraction of the price. I agree with you totally about Sony ES players, but I gave up one for a Toshiba. I haven't regretted it for a moment. The hi def alone was worth it.

[ericl]

I agree with you totally about Sony ES players, but I gave up one for a Toshiba. I haven't regretted it for a moment. The hi def alone was worth it.

Wow Ed, coming from you that's a nice endorsement for the Tosh. What Sony player did you give up and which unit did you buy? the HD-A1? I'm trying to be disciplined by waiting a couple generations before buying a hi-rez player, but I just might break down! Especially with a good selection of HD discs on netflix..

eric

[topspeed]

I'm not surprised to hear your preference for the the Sony. Picture wise, Sony's have always been great performers. Not that Denon's are slackers in the vid department, but I know a lot of people (myself included) purchased a Denon universal player for their audio playback as well. On the audio side, whether rbcd or hi-rez, the 2910 offers the typically smooth Denon sound they are famous for.

The Faroudja chipset in the 2910 is prone to macroblocking on some displays and is likely a major contributor for the switch to the SO chipset. I don't know a whole lot about the 2930ci, but did find this review (http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/08/denon_dvd2930ci.html), which seems pretty convincing. FWIW, I'm happy with the 2910 and have found the picture to be nothing short of stunning on my JVC.

Of course, if you're planning on upgrading to either HD format anytime soon, you may want to just get a 1930 or the Toshiba Ed mentioned as a stopgap.

[edtyct]

Eric,

The ES player that I had for a while was the 3100, which is the runt of the litter. The 9100 is the obvious reference deck, but its baby brother was a more than adequate interim player, for both SACD and SD video. I replaced it with the HD-A1, which, to my surprise, was no letdown at all. But it has its glitches: Its slow repsonse will certainly drive some people crazy. I'm usually indifferent to remotes, but though this one is sleek and shiny, it seems to have been designed by Magilla Gorilla. The layout makes no sense geographically or tactilely. It defies the fingers in bright light, let alone a dark room. Dispense with it fast.

To get the benefits of the new audio codecs, you'll need to use your analog 5.1 inputs (unless you have HDMI that can pass the decoded PCM). However, if you've reserved these analog inputs for SACD/DVD-A, you'll have to use adapters to connect two sets of cables to each one--a set for the Toshiba and a set for whatever plays your SACDs/DVD-As. The fit will probably be very tight. You will curse.

The other thing you'll want to do immediately is upgrade to firmware 2.0, either by requesting a disk from Toshiba or connecting an ethernet cable to your home network. I did the latter. The latest firmware is essential for getting proper black level, proper color space, and all 5.1 channels of Dolby TrueHD, instead of just two, as available on a disk by disk basis.

But when everything is right, the Toshiba is a great way to watch a movie, especially if you can find one on HD DVD that you want to see. Luckily, I had Syriana and Good Night, Good Luck, two of my faves, to get my feet wet. If the prospect of HD on disk outweighs a few inconveniences, the Toshiba is money well spent. It really can make you second-guess the rationality of purchasing a mid- to high-end regular DVD player costing more than $300.

Ed

[PeruvianSkies]

Thus far everyone has given great advice...I would only like to add to what was already said being a 2910 owner. The main reason that I purchased mine was for CD/SACD 5.1 playback, it get's no use as a video player, but has the ability to turn off the video components in order to dedicate to full audio. Denon is definite a better player audio-wise, but it sounds like you are looking for the better performer video-wise, in which case I would lean towards the Sony.

[westcott]

I am contemplating a DVD player purchase and have narrowed it down to three players. I have the Denon DVD 910 and am very happy with it but I want to retire it to the bedroom and get a player with SACD capabilities, if possible.

1) Samsung BD P1200
Blue Ray capabilities, Suberb DVD video, some HD audio capabilities, no SACD, added multichannel cable costs, possibly an expensive DVD player if BR loses. $800

2) Denon 2930ci
Superb DVD video, no macroblocking or chroma issues, Superb audio for SACD and DVD audio, no BR or HD DVD capabilities, uses DenonLink for digital audio for all formats with my Denon 3805 so no added cable costs. $650

3) Oppo Digital DV-981HD
Excellent DVD video, possible macroblocking and chroma issues, adequate SACD and DVD audio, added multichannel cable costs, cost effective. $350

I give equal weight to audio and video performance and really would like to expand my music collection using SACD and DVD audio (I have some DVD audio discs). I will rent all video content for HD or SD format but place a lot of weight on DVD performance since this will still be the dominating format for several more years. I also tend to keep my equipment for a long time and do not upgrade often. I am leaning towards number 2 but your input would be welcome.
__________________
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[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey! A recent post!




3) Oppo Digital DV-981HD
Excellent DVD video, possible macroblocking and chroma issues, adequate SACD and DVD audio, added multichannel cable costs, cost effective. $350

Can you explain to me what macroblocking is and is it detectable on DLP TV's? I'm considering the same Oppo model as a future purchase for the same reasons... A & V performance.

Edit: The Oppo player is $230. @ Amazon.



I give equal weight to audio and video performance and really would like to expand my music collection using SACD and DVD audio (I have some DVD audio discs). I will rent all video content for HD or SD format but place a lot of weight on DVD performance since this will still be the dominating format for several more years. I also tend to keep my equipment for a long time and do not upgrade often. I am leaning towards number 2 but your input would be welcome.

DITTO!

[westcott]

Hey! A recent post!




Can you explain to me what macroblocking is and is it detectable on DLP TV's? I'm considering the same Oppo model as a future purchase for the same reasons... A & V performance.

Edit: The Oppo player is $230. @ Amazon.



DITTO!

Macroblocking is a video artifact that usually occurs via satellite or cable due to low resolution signals. The SciFi channel is historically the worst for me at home. It appears as a group of very small squares that seem fixed as people or objects move about the screen. It is really apparent when you have large areas with the same color like dark scenes, skylines, or underwater video. It can be very distracting and one of the reasons I use a small screen for standard definition programming.

It is not common with DVD's unless you happen to have a Faroudjia video processor and a digital display (DLP seems to be the worse but it does not always occur, depends on the mfg and the combination). My LCD projector has no problem with macroblocking with the Denon 910 DVD player using Faroudjia DCDi.

Edit: I included the added cost of digital audio cables to the Oppo price for SACD playback and that is where I got the $350 number.

[spf]

Edit: I included the added cost of digital audio cables to the Oppo price for SACD playback and that is where I got the $350 number.[/QUOTE]

Although I have the HD970 as opposed to the 981, I've heard that the 981 can downconvert the PCM from SACD to the HDMI 1.1 standard so that it could play through the one cable as well. Anyone else hear this?

Shane