Which turntable would you choose?

[3db]

The new Denon that has been a relative new release into Canada;
http://ca.denon.com/ProductDetails/Turntables.asp

or the Project Debut?
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutph&cat=turntables&lang=en

I didnt include Music Hall in my list as they are more expensive than the Porjects and offer similar performance in the $500Cdn price range that I'm looking at.

[basite]

well, i'm going to buy the pro-ject xpression2 around xmas, but anyways, you are actually comparing 2 different types of tt's, the denon is fully automatic (press start, the needle will automattically be placed on the record and when done, the arm lifts itselves and goes back to the armrest) and the pro-ject is completely manual (press the power button, then the platter starts to spin, lift the arm, put the needle on the record, when done, lift the arm and bring it back to the armrest) so that would depend on what you want, the pro-ject also haves manual speed change (remove the platter and relay the belt on the other ring) but this is not important if you only have 33 rpm records, they both wheigh the same, the arm is different though. I didn't see any specifications on the denon's arm weight.

i don't know, personally i'd have the pro-ject, because i don't like (semi-) automatic tt's, but this is a personal choice, for all i know, they are practically the same, only the denon is automatic.

if you want comfort or just want to play records when doing something else (cooking, reading, ...) then i should pick the denon, because you don't immediatly have to go and stop the tt, if you're planning to sit down and really listen to the music, then you'll have to choose a bit longer, if you think: i do want the automatic one, also consider Thorens they make good tt's too.

thorens website:
www.thorens.com

hope this helped

Basite

[3db]

well, i'm going to buy the pro-ject xpression2 around xmas, but anyways, you are actually comparing 2 different types of tt's, the denon is fully automatic (press start, the needle will automattically be placed on the record and when done, the arm lifts itselves and goes back to the armrest) and the pro-ject is completely manual (press the power button, then the platter starts to spin, lift the arm, put the needle on the record, when done, lift the arm and bring it back to the armrest) so that would depend on what you want, the pro-ject also haves manual speed change (remove the platter and relay the belt on the other ring) but this is not important if you only have 33 rpm records, they both wheigh the same, the arm is different though. I didn't see any specifications on the denon's arm weight.

i don't know, personally i'd have the pro-ject, because i don't like (semi-) automatic tt's, but this is a personal choice, for all i know, they are practically the same, only the denon is automatic.

if you want comfort or just want to play records when doing something else (cooking, reading, ...) then i should pick the denon, because you don't immediatly have to go and stop the tt, if you're planning to sit down and really listen to the music, then you'll have to choose a bit longer, if you think: i do want the automatic one, also consider Thorens they make good tt's too.

thorens website:
www.thorens.com

hope this helped

Basite


I think I'm with you on your pref towards the Project. They are similarily priced which means more effort was made on getting a better sound with Project then money spent on the automatic lift mechanism of Denon. I never realized the Denon was automatic until you told me.

[dean_martin]

consider moving up the Pro-Ject line to a model that has the Pro-Ject 9 or 9c tonearm. The 9 is all aluminum and the 9c has a carbon fibre arm tube. IMO it would be worth the price increase if you're in it for the long haul because the better arm will keep up with better cartridges as you go. Bottom line is you'll enjoy it longer.

[jrhymeammo]

If you are considering Pro-Ject TT, how about RM4. You can find them for fairly cheap.
Here is a description.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm4.htm
Upscaleaudio has them for $450 with a cart mounted on Pro-Ject9 arm. I think I've seen a few Rm4s in audiogon for under $350.
I was reading an article today and it stated that RM-4 had great speed stabiity unlike others. If you are interested, readup on this.
http://www.aslgroup.com/nottingham/StereophileHorizon.pdf



Pro-Ject makes great entry-level TTs but there are others to consider too. Goldring GR1.2 come with a tonearm based on REGA 250. I think AudioAdvisor still got them for $300. I think you are wise by not considering MH TTs since they are basically the same, unless you start looking at models MMF5s and up.
I'm starting to feel used TT market is fairly safe. Most of vinyl owners are very picky about how they take care of things. I'm not making any indirect comment like digital owners dont take care of their soft/hardwares, so stay calm digies.

-JRA

[3db]

If you are considering Pro-Ject TT, how about RM4. You can find them for fairly cheap.
Here is a description.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm4.htm
Upscaleaudio has them for $450 with a cart mounted on Pro-Ject9 arm. I think I've seen a few Rm4s in audiogon for under $350.
I was reading an article today and it stated that RM-4 had great speed stabiity unlike others. If you are interested, readup on this.
http://www.aslgroup.com/nottingham/StereophileHorizon.pdf



Pro-Ject makes great entry-level TTs but there are others to consider too. Goldring GR1.2 come with a tonearm based on REGA 250. I think AudioAdvisor still got them for $300. I think you are wise by not considering MH TTs since they are basically the same, unless you start looking at models MMF5s and up.
I'm starting to feel used TT market is fairly safe. Most of vinyl owners are very picky about how they take care of things. I'm not making any indirect comment like digital owners dont take care of their soft/hardwares, so stay calm digies.

-JRA

I would love to get the turntables mentioned but I think thye maybe out of my reach budget wise. I live in Canada and have to work with Canadian dollars. Thats why I think I'm stuck with Projects Debut series. Is Audio avisor a web site? Do they ship to Canada? Are they an authorized dealer of Project?

Looking forward to your respond

[3db]

If you are considering Pro-Ject TT, how about RM4. You can find them for fairly cheap.
Here is a description.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm4.htm
Upscaleaudio has them for $450 with a cart mounted on Pro-Ject9 arm. I think I've seen a few Rm4s in audiogon for under $350.
I was reading an article today and it stated that RM-4 had great speed stabiity unlike others. If you are interested, readup on this.
http://www.aslgroup.com/nottingham/StereophileHorizon.pdf



Pro-Ject makes great entry-level TTs but there are others to consider too. Goldring GR1.2 come with a tonearm based on REGA 250. I think AudioAdvisor still got them for $300. I think you are wise by not considering MH TTs since they are basically the same, unless you start looking at models MMF5s and up.
I'm starting to feel used TT market is fairly safe. Most of vinyl owners are very picky about how they take care of things. I'm not making any indirect comment like digital owners dont take care of their soft/hardwares, so stay calm digies.

-JRA


The RM-4 doesn't show up in in the Proj-ect eb page anymore. Is this a discontinued model?

[jrhymeammo]

The RM-4 doesn't show up in in the Proj-ect eb page anymore. Is this a discontinued model?

Did you click on the link I posted? Yeah, that TT has been discontinued, but that page will give you some ideas if you are interested in a second hand or NOS deck. I think they tried to replace it with a 6, but 5 is out now. Still out of your budget doe. Yes, AA is a website and Goldring TTs can be found there. Other websites such as

www.amusicdirect.com
www.needledoctor.com
www.elusivedisc.com

carries alot of analog gears, but I know AA is the cheapest place to get a GR 1.2

-JRA

[royphil345]

The new Denon looks pretty tempting. It has a DC servo motor though... The smaller ones on inexpensive turntables tend to drift in speed during difficult passages and even run slower when the stylus is tracking near the beginning of a record. They also don't tell you the stylus shape or size. Cartridge may be a "throwaway" with a conical stylus.

The Project Debut has a steel platter which is very unusual on a modern, high-quality turntable and is reported by some to transmit hum from the motor. Makes sense, since steel is such a good transmitter of magnetic energy.

The entry-level Music Hall is OK... Not crazy about the arm or the string and weight anti-skate. Prefer a more precise adjustment. But, I'd buy it over the Project with the steel platter.

The Goldring GR 1.2 is probably what I would buy given your budget these days. That Project R-4 seems very similar to the Goldring except the MDF platter is larger and would probably give you better noise damping / speed stability. Actually, the specs are better than anything else I've seen in the price-range. Nice styling too. Looks VERY worth consideration if you can still find one at a nice price.

Good luck!!! Hope whatever you choose works out well for you...

[JohnMichael]

They upgraded the tonearm on the Project Debut III. Looks like a good table for $295 US. My old Thorens had a similar tonearm so I think the table should sound good. I know the earlier version received some good reviews for a turntable in that price range. If vinyl listening is going to be an occasional thing I think it would be a good choice. I also wanted to mention that you can upgrade the supplied cartridge by purchasing an OM 10 or 20 stylus without the hassle of remounting a cartridge.

[dean_martin]

They upgraded the tonearm on the Project Debut III. Looks like a good table for $295 US. My old Thorens had a similar tonearm so I think the table should sound good. I know the earlier version received some good reviews for a turntable in that price range. If vinyl listening is going to be an occasional thing I think it would be a good choice. I also wanted to mention that you can upgrade the supplied cartridge by purchasing an OM 10 or 20 stylus without the hassle of remounting a cartridge.

That's good news, JM. I have Pro-Ject's older 1.2 entry-level table. In comparing its arm to the Debut's, I thought they may have taken a step backwards with the Debut's arm to keep costs down.

The last time I checked, www.upscaleaudio.com still had the Pro-Ject RM-4 listed on its demos and specials page for $450. I'm not sure if it would be any better than the current Xpression model which I think is also $450 new. The RM-4's replacement, the RM-5, looks like a very strong contender at $650. It's getting alot of buzz and is included in Michael Fremer's turntable setup dvd, but Fremer hasn't reviewed it for Stereophile yet. I'm wondering whether it's politics because everybody's sweetheart at or about that price is the Rega P3.

[ericl]

Hey 3db,

I'd also consider a Technics SL1200. I've used many turntables, but the Technics is by far one of the most solid and easy to use tables out there. It sounds very good and will keep you happy. Will last forever
I am happy with my Thorens, but if I was buying all over again i would get a new Technics.
you can get them pretty cheaply too, in your price range.
check out this site, this guy is a technics nut, he has all kinds of tweaks and mods and accessories for getting the most out of a 1200.
http://www.kabusa.com
(you can get the tables themselves new elsewhere for much less money though)

eric