42 to 46 inch LCD vs Plasma

[BillyB]

I'm fairly well versed with audio stuff but not nearly up to speed with video equipment so please bear with me if my questions have been raised before.I'd like to purchase a set for a basement playroom with no daylight brightness issues.The viewing distance is 9' and a flat panel is a must so I assume we're talking LCD or plasma.I'd like to spend around $2,500 and HD over ED is my preference.I have a couple of key questions that I'm unsure of.I realise some units have HD tuners built-in while others are simply HD ready.I can rent a HD cable box for about $6 a month so is the built-in tuner something I should be overly worried about.I have cable and wonder if a unit has the HD tuner built-in should cable card acceptance be a priority for me.I assume that negates the need for a cable box which certainly is a big plus space wise.I also am unsure about the built-in speaker issue,do all these types of units have built-in speakers.I will definitely be going home theatre but it would be nice not to need an A/V reciever turned on for all viewing applications.It seems as though plasma gets the nod over LCD for overall picture quality but I don't know how much of that is a matter of personal preference versus the actual technological differences between the two types of displays.I figure something in the 42 to 46 inch range will be sufficient for my room and I realize that flat panel technology is a very rapidly changing science right now so of course I'm concerned about being patient enough.They seem to be getting better and more reasonably priced and I don't know when that curve will level off.If anyone has any suggestions regarding the 2 different types of sets and respective manufacturers I would greatly appreciate it.Of course I will go looking in the stores but I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before making this purchase.I've heard of LED backlit LCD's coming soon and I don't know if that's a performance upgrade or more of a longevity upgrade.I'm also wondering if Plasma screen burn-in and running hot issues have been reduced with these newer generation models.If there's other flat panel formats that are worthy of consideration I'm certainly open to suggestion.

[elapsed]

For LCD's I would recommend the new Sharp Aquos 42" LC-42D62U and 46" LC46D62U. Also take a look at the new Sony Bravia XBR2 models. These are the best LCD's on the market, and offer full 1080p.

The best plasma manufacturers are Fujitsu, Runco, Pioneer Elite, Panasonic, Hitachi and Pioneer (in roughly that order). In your price range I would look at the following models:

Panasonic TH-42PX60U
Panasonic TH-42PX600U
Hitachi 42HDS69
Hitachi 42HDT79
Pioneer PDP-4270HD

[edtyct]

I think elapsed LCD recommendations are good, but they don't mean that others aren't worthy as well. LCDs traditionally can't get as black as plasmas, but, for certain models, the gap is closing a bit. The relatively inexpensive Westinghouse LCDs appear to go pretty deep. LEDs will not only extend lamp life; they will also improve the color gamut on LCDs. The better plasmas have schemes to reduce the risk of image burn, but a little caution doesn't hurt. Keeping the brightness/contrast levels down will help with power consumption.

Hey, elapsed, where did you get that order for plasmas?

[elapsed]

Hey, elapsed, where did you get that order for plasmas?
Well first off, Fujitsu invented the plasma. Their new 1080p plasma's at CEDIA last week speak for themselves, simply put the best plasma's ever built. Fujitsu share a plasma plant with Hitachi (50/50 ownership).

Runco produce plasma's that are geared towards the elite who don't mind throwing $20,000 at a TV. Their 1080p plasma's are right on par with Fujitsu's models. I still prefer Fujitsu, which is why I scored Runco in the number 2 spot.

Pioneer Elite produces phenominal plasma's. Pioneer owns the NEC plasma plant in Japan.

Panasonic are highly regarded as the best plasma's that are in reach of the average consumer. This would be my typical recommendation.

The next tier of plasma manufacturers are Samsung and LGE, who are quickly growing to surpass all other plasma manufacturers in sales volume, though they still have a ways to go in picture quality. Their plants are in South Korea.

[edtyct]

I don't think that anything presented at Cedia speaks for itself, especially when very few people on this board, if any, go to Cedia, and when presentations are simply advertisments--not tests. I would think that superlatives aren't as valuable as specific information supporting, if not proving, your point. I'm not disagreeing outright with you; for all I know, your views may hold up. But facts rather than blanket statements would help me understand what you mean. You've taken a big bite without any supporting evidence.

To the best of my knowledge, Fujitsu didn't invent the plasma, which actually appeared decades ago, though nobody knew about it, but Fujitsu certainly had a hand in providing parts for many plasmas in the early generations. The company has definitely backed away recently, leaving others to cultivate the field a bit. I'd like to know what phrases like "right on par," "best plasmas ever built," "phenominal plasmas," etc. actually signify in terms of real-world performance.

[elapsed]

Fujitsu Aviamo at CEDIA (unbiased review from HD Beat): http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/09/17/fujitsu-cedia-aviamo-1080p-plasmas/

Best at CEDIA: http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/09/17/best-cedia/

Sorry, I should rephrase myself - Fujitsu did not invent the plasma, but they did release the world's first production plasma in 1992, followed by the world's first 42" plasma in 1993. Fujitsu have always been at the forefront of plasma development, and today they offer arguably the very best plasma's available.

Also keep in mind that Fujitsu plasma's have onboard video processors. These costly processors do improve picture quality dramatically, but at a huge cost. This is similar to purchasing a seperate video processor such as a DVDO iScan VP50 ($2,999).

[edtyct]

I don't want to pick nits with you, but these are not reviews; they are blurbs and opinions. I still don't really know what you mean by "arguably the very best plasmas available." And every digital TV worth its salt has "onboard video processors." How do you think that they scale material to their native resolutions or deinterlace film and video material? The idea that the processing embedded within a plasma, or any other display, can approach the finesse of a costly external processors is dubious. Sometimes, especially in front projectors, however, it is very good.

[elapsed]

edtyct - I'm no expert on plasma's, so I can't justify my response on video processing. But having seen Fujitsu, Runco and Pioneer Elite plasma's side-by-side (all 720p) and properly calibrated in an environment typical of a home theatre room, I personally feel that Fujitsu and Runco offer picture quality that far exceeds any sets I have ever seen.

The Fujitsu plasma's I have seen are simply breathtaking. This is my opinion. You're welcome to make your own opinion upon viewing any of these sets. :)

[edtyct]

Thanks for the offer, but too many variables are involved for me to make snap judgments. It's good to know that your assessment is based on general impressions. This leaves the field wide open to the discussion of particular characteristics and features, as well as broad overviews.

[Dougcho]

:aureola:
I can vouch for Sony Bravia XBR2 40" and 46" LCDs ...
at least as far as UPCONVERTING from analog sources goes!
No burn-in worries at all with LCDs, and the best (right now),
so I've been told are these 2 Sony babies above.
Spend the extra bucks and get the best! Good luck.
Dougcho

[ericl]

Took delivery of the Pioneer PDP-4270HD this weekend. It's a review sample, I only get it for two weeks unless i decide to buy it (i may have to!). It is absolutely beautiful. I made a few adjustments to the picture per Edtyct's recommendations (thanks Ed!) and it just looks great. I need to come up with some kind of HD player pronto, I want to get a 1080P source into this bad boy (even though in downscales it, it can accept the signal).

eric

[Morpheus77]

Billy B. I'm an Assistant Manger at a Wal-Mart in Dallas. We have to be trained in various areas heavily in the store, and electronics is one of those areas. If you are going to spend the money for something that is going to last you a long time, you need to concentrate on an LCD. The reason why, and most electronics stores will not tell you this, is because the life span for a plasma TV at this moment in time is 7-10 years. I also have an Uncle that bought a plasma TV in 98, paid several thousand dollars for it, last year he started getting a messed up picture, took to a local shop, and they told him that it would be cheaper for him to purchase a new one than to repair his old one. Told him that they just aren't meant for long time use. They told me the same thing in my training. Take my advice and stick to an LCD. Also if you go with LCD, most units are HD ready, which means you wouldn't need a cable box, or HD tuner.

Tommy

[ericl]

Billy B. I'm an Assistant Manger at a Wal-Mart in Dallas. We have to be trained in various areas heavily in the store, and electronics is one of those areas. If you are going to spend the money for something that is going to last you a long time, you need to concentrate on an LCD. The reason why, and most electronics stores will not tell you this, is because the life span for a plasma TV at this moment in time is 7-10 years. I also have an Uncle that bought a plasma TV in 98, paid several thousand dollars for it, last year he started getting a messed up picture, took to a local shop, and they told him that it would be cheaper for him to purchase a new one than to repair his old one. Told him that they just aren't meant for long time use. They told me the same thing in my training. Take my advice and stick to an LCD. Also if you go with LCD, most units are HD ready, which means you wouldn't need a cable box, or HD tuner.

Tommy
I imagine and hope that plasma technology has gotten a bit better in 8 years. That's the risk of being an early adopter though..

[edtyct]

Don't believe everything you hear--whether from Morpheus or from me. But I don't agree with Morpheus on this one. Even if the 60,000-hours' lifespan currently touted by plasma mfgrs is optimistic, 40,000 to 60,000 is not out of the question, especially if the plasma is a good one, the user takes care not to drive its brightness/contrast too hard, overheat it, or leave it on all day. Plasmas definitely compete with CRTs for longevity, as well as LCDs. Personally, I don't think that seven to ten years is so bad, but lots of plasma owners will do much better than that. Of course, not all plasmas will survive that long, but show me another technology that is immune to such contingencies. By the way, I make this point as someone who owned an early plasma that barely lasted two years. But the innovations since that time have been sufficient to make sure that the great majority of reputable plasmas will be around for a good long time.

[Morpheus77]

You would be hard pressed to convince me that they last much longer than 7-10 years, but then again, it's your money. This forum is to advise you, so there is my advice.

T

[Morpheus77]

Sure wish I could get this many responses to my thread I posted a few days ago. It's titled Cerwin Vega under the "Speakers" section if anyone cares to take a look at it.

T

[edtyct]

The point isn't just to tell people that you believe so and so. In order for your advice to matter, you need to give people evidence to back it up. One test case, or two, or even a particular Walmart's instructions to its sales staff, hardly constitutes incontrovertible data about how a techonology performs. Much of the testing that went into determining a reasonable half-life for plasma panels took place in the field--the commercial units that were left running for long periods of time in various public and private places. There isn't an arcane statistic that can't be fudged a little bit, but plasmas have been around long enough not to deliver too many surprises. I have no doubt that certain plasmas aren't built to last as long as others; maybe Walmart sells some of them. But the burden of proof about the ubiquity of short-term failure is on you. Plasmas aren't anybody's little secret anymore.

[Morpheus77]

Let me tell you something! I can back up anything I say, and if you don't like the advice that I give, then you need to take it somewhere else. I know a hell of a lot more than you are giving me credit for. I know several people that have Plasma's, and they had them for several years, and haven't had any problem with them. I'm not knocking plasma's, I'm not even telling the guy NOT to buy one. I'm simply telling him what I know, and what I know IS backed up by fact. Hell anyone can do a google search on Plasma TV's and get all the information, and history on the product they want. So don't sit there and be belittle me or anyone else for that matter by thinking that you know it all just because you go to google and read up on this crap. If I'm going to spend a large amout of money on something, especially around $2000.00 I would want to know that there is a possibility that the product I'm fixing to buy may or may not still be working in 10 years. It's called ROI, (Return on Investment) Do a google search on that, maybe you'll learn something.

[edtyct]

Morpheus, I love your advice; I just don't know why I should think that it's any better than someone else's. I'm sorry if that makes you feel belittled. If it helps, you can have the thread all to yourself and revel in your expertise. If you have Google confirmation, let'er rip.

[bobsticks]

uumm, with the amount of money going into research and development in consumer electronics why would anyone want to own a tv for mor than 5 or 7 years? In 5 years I want to be watching 3-D Hi-def hologram of a bear chasing GMichael around his house...

[bobsticks]

Ooops, got so busy being a smartass that I forgot to address the OP. Hey Billy, I own a plasma and a couple od lcds. The decision for or against either format was, for me, based largely on application.
My experience is that plasmas function best in low light situations. My 42 is the centerpiece of my main HT rig. The room can be darkened so it works out pretty well. All the units mentioned by elapsed are pretty solid, though you'll have trouble finding a few of them within your price range. Those pannys are nice and they'll do justice to movies and sporting events.Fast motion sequences will be handled with aplomb.
LCDs are good as workhorses. If the unit is going to be on all the time, and especially if you are going to use it for computer applications I might look that way. The urban legends about plasma burn-in are not entirely legend. It does take quite a bit of time but static images will burn in eventually, so if you're a gamer consider that.
Lower priced LCDs are not always the best with motion. There has been a great deal of improvement but nonetheless it's something to look at when test driving somethin'.
Really, within both technologies there are stellar units, when shopping around I would keep in mind exactly what applications your new toy will have thrown at it.

Good luck and have fun with whatever you choose!