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audio_dude
09-16-2006, 07:11 AM
ok, so, about 6 months ago i got my paradigm Atoms for my B-day, they're nice and all, but i've got some money now and i'm looking to upgrade and get some deeper bass and better sound.

the place i bought it from offers a trade-up program, so i can bring them back in and get a credit for them, that would be $185cdn. now, my options are...i can trade them in and pay $55 to get the Titans, i could trade them in and get the Mini-monitors (i think they're like $450 or something, i'm going to the store today, i'll update you later.)

all sounds fine and dandy and you all want to recomend the mini-monitors? right?
but here's where it gets interesting, if i trade up for the titans now, i can get a Denon DRA-295 receiver for Christmas...

so, do i get the Titans and the Denon?
or...keep my crappy "tuner" and amp and get the mini-monitors?

JoeE SP9
09-16-2006, 08:14 AM
Why don't you just get a sub woofer. You'll get the better bass and your current speakers will sound better for not having to produce bass. Maybe that way you can still get that new receiver.:cool:

audio_dude
09-16-2006, 09:06 AM
sry joe, i've looked at subs, and if i get one, i want one thats clean donw to 25htz, and thats not within my $300 budget, plus, i have the speakers mounted on my desk, (i know it sucks, but its only for a few more years) ya, and i really don't need that powerful down there bass right now, i think the receiver's the better idea so then i have something to build off of, and i think the receiver might have a VFE output...

update: i've listened to the atoms with a sub, and it just ads a little slam, nothing else, not much audible improvment to the sound, now, litening to the mini monitors, they have a fuller sound, better soundstage, and nice deep bass, more than what i need for now

jrhymeammo
09-16-2006, 10:21 AM
Dear Dude,

If you want more bass, I'm not sure if 6.5" woofers gonna make you smile. But I think going to Monitor series will be a nice upgrade for you. One inch titanium tweeters will be a huge leap from your 3/4". How about sticking with your Sansui and get a pair of Monitor 3s with 8" woofers?
What is your reason for ditching your AU4700 for Denon 295? I dont know what VFE is, but what other extra features do you want for possible feature upgrades? I have no experience with your Sansui, but I would imaging that piece has beefer sound than the Denon you are looking at. Vintage receivers seem to sound much fuller than any new entry level receivers.

-JRA

audio_dude
09-16-2006, 10:53 AM
ok,ok, i'm back from my Audio Dealer...(i was going to just say "dealer" but it might have been taken as that other shady kind of "dealer")

ok, so, here's what i've learned...

i've had a listen, and the mini-monitors have a beautiful full sound, for the demo, an Anthem Amp was used along with a Sony 5 disk CD player.
these speakers are $500cdn, but they've been offered for $425cdn...

oh ya, i can return my atoms for a credit of $180, so the speakers would be about $245cdn

the amp i have has a few issues and needs a downright stripdown and cleaning. the sales guy i was talking with was very knowledgeable and said he would probably buy the Sansui from me. (didn't state a price because he hasn't seen it, but i'm thinking about $30-$40
this would be replaced by a Denon DRA-297...not the 295, and this retails for $325cdn

now, the sales guy also said he had a 7 month old Denon DCM-380 he was going to sell, the price is $200cdn


should i hop on it?


update: ok, my dad and grandpa will put in a max of about $300 smackers, and i get about $300 from the other side of my family, (^-^) maybe i'll be able to get this after all!

Lensman
09-16-2006, 11:39 AM
I've auditioned the Atoms, Titans, and Mini Monitors. I found the Titans definitely have more bass than the Atoms. But they give up too much midrange clarity to get it. Between the two, I would much rather buy Atoms and save up for a sub to go with them. That said, the Mini Monitor is a substantial step up in speed, punch and detail from either. They also go a bit lower. I wouldn't hesistate to upgrade to them.

Since the Denon you're looking at is a stereo receiver, not an HT unit, I'm not sure what you're expecting to gain from buying it. The Sansui you have is no slouch and the power output of the Denon is similar (50W vs. 45W). I'm not convinced you'd gain any significant improvement in sound quality. In fact, it's possible the Sansui could sound better than the Denon. Have you auditioned the Denon?

Lensman
09-16-2006, 11:50 AM
Started to reply to your earlier post, got called away, came back and finished it, then saw your new one.

So I understand the new amp thing now - the Sansui has issues. Any idea how much it would cost to fix? The fact a knowledgable high-end dealer is offering to buy it from you even though it's not working right should tell you something...

jrhymeammo
09-16-2006, 12:51 PM
Started to reply to your earlier post, got called away, came back and finished it, then saw your new one.

So I understand the new amp thing now - the Sansui has issues. Any idea how much it would cost to fix? The fact a knowledgable high-end dealer is offering to buy it from you even though it's not working right should tell you something...

Exactly what I was thinking.

They'll probably clean it and replace a part or two, then sell it for as much as $400US. If you can get it fixed for under $200CAD, I would go that route.
Take a look at this site as a reference.
http://oaktreeent.com/Stereo_Receivers.htm
Also, if you do wish to replace your Sansui in future, you can sell it on Audiogon for $200US in a heart beat.
Give it about a week, I'm sure someone here would offer you $50 for your Sansui in as is condition.
Denon can serve as a good preamp when you do decide a 2ch-amp, but that'll limit your subwoofer choice.

Remember, dealers are not your friends. They all may give you a good deal, but on the bottomline they are all trying to make money.


-JRA

audio_dude
09-16-2006, 04:20 PM
first, this dealer doesn NOT sell used stuff, and this guy was offering to buy it himself, not the store buying it, but if i can get $50us for it, i'm in, but i'm not paying the shipping on it XD


update: ok, i've decided that i'm going to look at giving this amp a professional tune-up and fixeruper, just because i've grown so fond of the sound

basite
09-17-2006, 08:23 AM
could you post a pic of your amp?? i searched for it and i got alot of different amps.
Tuneups and cleaning up can do alot, when i took it out of my dad's garage, it worked, but it was covered in dust, the motor moving the tuner came loose, the tuning was wrong, all the in and outputs were oxidated, the potentiometer for the volume had dust in it (so each time you turned up the volume, it cracked for a second until a certain volume where it kept on cracking,... i cleaned it and fixed alot of things and it was the best (second best actually, my new integrated amp is better) amplifier i ever heard, and it sounded real smooth, If it is not completely messed up, fixing it is indeed THE way to go.

basite
09-17-2006, 08:47 AM
about subs: try cambridge soundworks, they have a few subs in your price category, they don't go down to 25hz but they will go to 32hz (if that satisfies you) i must say, my pc sound system (cambridge soundworks thx megaworks 550) has somekind of the same sub and i must say that it gives a whole lot of punch. otherwise, go look for the b&w asw 300 it is the cheapest b&w sub but it will go down to 20hz for sure, it might be $50-100 out of your budget.

btw, how does your headphone sound?? i'm looking to buy myself a new one,

hope this helped

audio_dude
09-17-2006, 09:11 AM
basite, if your looking for anything under $200 in headphones, grado is the way to go, check out the SR-60s, they're cheap, but sound amazing, they're my reference phones, and with the colume up, you can almost hear them at 20htz!!!

jrhymeammo
09-17-2006, 10:58 AM
basite, if your looking for anything under $200 in headphones, grado is the way to go, check out the SR-60s, they're cheap, but sound amazing, they're my reference phones, and with the colume up, you can almost hear them at 20htz!!!

Everyone has different taste

But I have to disagree on you about Grado 60. They sound extremely bright. They can really pierce your ears. They sound "better with tube head-amp(Musical Fidelity X-CAN V3) but who's gonna spend $400+ on a head-amp and buy Grado 60. If it's for portable audio, dont even go for it. 1/8" plug will be bent, and will damage. Also, if you play it those loud with low quality amp, woofers/mechanism will start rattling. If you have budget to spend say $500 on that setup, why not get a better stereo setup. If you have to keep music level down for night time listening with a good budget then go for it. Also, I dont find Grado sets to be comfortable on my ears. Senns feels so much better.
Listen to them at a store for more than 20 minutes if you can. I was always adjusting the set to relieve pressures off of my ears. For Senns, I can leave them on for much longer.
How about AKG K240? I havent tried them though.

KaiWinters
09-17-2006, 12:16 PM
Get the Mini's or the 3's if you can.
You won't be disappointed by the sound. Big step up from the Atoms, which I use for my surrounds. My 3's replace the Titans, which I have sitting alone and lonely in a box for now.

audio_dude
09-17-2006, 12:34 PM
Everyone has different taste

But I have to disagree on you about Grado 60. They sound extremely bright. They can really pierce your ears. They sound "better with tube head-amp(Musical Fidelity X-CAN V3) but who's gonna spend $400+ on a head-amp and buy Grado 60. If it's for portable audio, dont even go for it. 1/8" plug will be bent, and will damage. Also, if you play it those loud with low quality amp, woofers/mechanism will start rattling. If you have budget to spend say $500 on that setup, why not get a better stereo setup. If you have to keep music level down for night time listening with a good budget then go for it. Also, I dont find Grado sets to be comfortable on my ears. Senns feels so much better.
Listen to them at a store for more than 20 minutes if you can. I was always adjusting the set to relieve pressures off of my ears. For Senns, I can leave them on for much longer.
How about AKG K240? I havent tried them though.

:nono:
ok, now i just find that insulting, if you don't like a pair of cans, just say so, and what the hells up with " the 1/8" plug will be bent, and will damage" i've owned these for almost a year and they are certainly not "extremely bright", i can't stand bright speakers/headphones! and second, you don't need a friggin $400 headphone amp for these, any portable CD player/iPod/mp3 player wil power them just fine, and they still sound amazing! the woofer doesn not "rattle" if anything you might be hearing the limitations of the amp, not the headphones! and about comfort, ur supposed to bend the headband to fit your head, if its too tight, bend it out, too loose, bend it in! :incazzato:

now, i banish you to the corner with a dunce cap! :dita: :ciappa: :nono:

jrhymeammo
09-17-2006, 01:35 PM
:nono:
ok, now i just find that insulting, if you don't like a pair of cans, just say so, and what the hells up with " the 1/8" plug will be bent, and will damage" i've owned these for almost a year and they are certainly not "extremely bright", i can't stand bright speakers/headphones! and second, you don't need a friggin $400 headphone amp for these, any portable CD player/iPod/mp3 player wil power them just fine, and they still sound amazing! the woofer doesn not "rattle" if anything you might be hearing the limitations of the amp, not the headphones! and about comfort, ur supposed to bend the headband to fit your head, if its too tight, bend it out, too loose, bend it in! :incazzato:

now, i banish you to the corner with a dunce cap! :dita: :ciappa: :nono:

Dear Dude,

Again, you are being very undude. :(

Like I stated on the top of the post. "Everyone has different taste"
My post wasn't never adressed to you only. You recommended Grado based on your findings. I just did the same with my afterthoughts. I'm glad you love your Grado 60s. I wasnt trying to diss your pride of ownership. I hope you dont have to send it back to them 2wice like I had to. I would send it back to them again, but it's way beyond their 1 yr warranty coverage. Plus I've made some modification to it since, so that'll always void warranty.
I used to use them primary for walking my dog on weekends with a portable CD player. If 60s had L shaped plugs like most of earpieces, that wouldn't have happened. Maybe I should've kept them for indoor use only.

I thought I made it reasonably clear that I dont like Grado SR-60, though I never came straight out and said it. So for your request, I DONT LIKE GRADO SR-60.

-JRA

N. Abstentia
09-17-2006, 03:40 PM
I didn't care for the Grado's either. For me, Sennheisers destory them :)

audio_dude
09-17-2006, 05:28 PM
meh, to each his own, and to jrhymeammo, sorry for overeacting, i don't know what i was thinking, and ya, i think the grado's are meant to be used for home listening, just clarify about problems next time! LOL

well, peace, and can we get back to the topic at hand?

jrhymeammo
09-17-2006, 07:03 PM
Not a big deal.
I hope you can get your Sansui fixed for cheap if you are taking that option.
Getting Titans for $55 isnt bad. Try them at home. If you dont like them, you can go for other Paradigms if you choose to.

audio_dude
09-18-2006, 04:02 PM
jrhymeammo, i'm not going to get the Titans, and i'm going to sell the amp.

so, this is what my stereo will shape up to be eventually...

minimonitors, Denon DRA-297 receiver, Denon 5-disk CD changer,

(one question, i've read some threads about paradigm updating their line-up, does that include the mini-monitor, and if it does, should i wait?

Lensman
09-18-2006, 06:50 PM
If Paradigm runs a similar timetable to the one they did with the v.4 line, you'll be able to buy the v.5s in about a month and a half. Paradigm has a good reputation because, in part, their product line updates are steps up. Supposedly, all Monitor v.5 speakers are 3-5dB more sensitive than previous models. If sound quality is paramount, you might want to wait till the v.5s arrive. If you intend to add matched speakers to build out an HT setup, you should definitely wait on the v.5s. This may also mean you pay a bit more as prices may go up.

On the other hand, if you're pleased with the v.4s you heard and want them for a stereo setup only, you can probably start negotiating with your dealer for a better deal on what he's got in stock. When the v.4s were announced a lot of dealers ran sales on the v.3s.