Choosing new Floor Standing Speakers

[ronning]

The current situation: Yamaha HTR-5760 110x7 receiver, Philips SACD/DVD/CD player, Denon DP-45 TT, Infinity Delta 60 (x4 - LR, SL, SR), Infinity Delta Center.

The Deltas are great, but they're *huge* and I know there's better sounding speakers out there. I'd like to upgrade sound but downgrade size. Sound quality *and* aesthetic beauty are important to me (these will be part of a modern living room environment). My target is $1500 for the front LR, maybe up to $2000 if I can justify it.

What I've auditioned:
Monitor Audio RS-6 | $1000/pair | Beautiful rosenut cabinets and aluminum woofers! Great, warm, full sound from a *tiny* floor standing box. Imaging is decent. A little lacking in bass "oomph"

Monitor Audio RS-8 | $1500/pair | Same beautiful cabinet and imaging, but with fuller, more dynamic sound, but not as rich of a midrange as RS-6. Fantastic bass for what's still a small tower.

B&W 704 | $2200/pair | Nice rosewood finish. Interesting cabinet design - I'm not sure if I like it or not - yellow kevlar woofer is a little weird looking. Fantastic sound, imagine, and rich midrange. Lacks bass oomph. Corresponding center/surround speakers a bit weird / expensive.

Paradigm Studio 60 v.3 | $1700/pair | Also available in a rosewood finish - although not as bright and glossy as the MA's. Beautiful sound - almost as good as the B&W's. Most bass oomph of the bunch. Front black fascia & drivers are a bit ugly.

Martin Logan Clarity | $2600/pair | Cool-looking speakers - unique. I always dreamed of owning Electrostats as a kid. Wide open sound - most lifelike of the bunch. Lacks bass extension (has mid-bass oomph, though), finicky with positioning, expensive to setup as 5.1 system, towers are "visually" very big (biggest of the group). Also very expensive. No rosewood finish available.

B&W XT4 | $2500/pair (going on sale, though...) | Awesome-looking - super slim and sleek. Sound is "narrower" - lacks bass extension and midrange is more closed. Very cool aluminum finish (& matching surround speakers)

Paradigm Monitor 7 | $1100/pair | not much to say... may as well buy the studio 60's...

DefTech something... (big black monolith thing) | $1000/pair | big, powerful bass (powered sub), somewhat more ambient sound from bipole (but not a "good" ambient like the Martin Logans). Great HT speaker, but otherwise uninspiring (and big and ugly!)


Can you get a feel for what I'm looking for?? I'm looking for other suggestions on what to audition or research on.

Any help is much appreicated - thanks!!

:idea:

[basite]

have you tried klipsch?? i heard they're good, they have alot of speakers but if you don't like one, you probalby don't like the rest of them too.

the b&w's are really good speakers, the design is made to minimize noise, that's why they put the tweeter on top of the box. we have the dm604's they sound really good too and they come at $1300 for a pair or something. decision is up to you, i'm sure that alot of other guys will answer this.

[bigfanga]

I'll put in my obligatory plug for the Quad 22L. Available in rosewood, not too big, lots of bass and the price ($1600 retail but available for less if you look around) is right.

EDIT: And the matching center channel is reasonably priced.

[paul_pci]

You should also see how you like the Boston Acoustics in your price range. I believe something like the vrm 90 would be worth checking out.

[JoeE SP9]

Get the Martin Logan's. It seems as if you like their sound. You yourself say "most lifelike of the bunch". If you find the bass to be inadequate you can always add a sub woofer. That lifelike sound is the signature of all ESL's. IMHO ESL's get the human voice, especially female right. Nothing else even comes close except Apogees and Magneplanars.:ihih:

If your room is smaller than the demo room the bass you get will be better than the demo room. So, you may not need a sub woofer. Only a demo in your room will allow you to check this. Of course, a home demo is desirable no matter what you buy.:yesnod:

You might want to give Magneplanar MG 1.6QR's a listen. They sound a lot like the ML's and are in the price range you specified <$2000. They also may need a sub woofer for the extreme low end. :wink5:

[ronning]

I'll put in my obligatory plug for the Quad 22L. Available in rosewood, not too big, lots of bass and the price ($1600 retail but available for less if you look around) is right.

EDIT: And the matching center channel is reasonably priced.

Nice, although aesthetically I like the Monitor Audios better, it' just a matter of finding a pair of these to audition for comparison in sound quality.

[ronning]

Get the Martin Logan's. It seems as if you like their sound. You yourself say "most lifelike of the bunch". If you find the bass to be inadequate you can always add a sub woofer. That lifelike sound is the signature of all ESL's. IMHO ESL's get the human voice, especially female right. Nothing else even comes close except Apogees and Magneplanars.:ihih:

If your room is smaller than the demo room the bass you get will be better than the demo room. So, you may not need a sub woofer. Only a demo in your room will allow you to check this. Of course, a home demo is desirable no matter what you buy.:yesnod:

You might want to give Magneplanar MG 1.6QR's a listen. They sound a lot like the ML's and are in the price range you specified <$2000. They also may need a sub woofer for the extreme low end. :wink5:

Intriguing, and I like the fact that they're rosewood w/ silver grills. However, they're giant (although thin) - 64" x 20"! I doubt that would pass the GF factor... They would also be blocking a significant part of my view out the windows... (can you see through them if you take the grill off??)

[dingus]

i have to plug the Vandersteen 2ce Signature's. very well balanced from top to bottom, doesnt lack for anything in any part of the sound. comes in at around $1700, not too big and looks that never go out of style.

[ronning]

i have to plug the Vandersteen 2ce Signature's. very well balanced from top to bottom, doesnt lack for anything in any part of the sound. comes in at around $1700, not too big and looks that never go out of style.

Thanks for the suggestion - not quite the style i'm going for, though.

Thanks

[bobsticks]

I agree with Joe on his take on ESLs and their attributes, and would just add that if I were in the market for a $1500-$2000 speaker I would strongly consider used equipment. Speakers especially have a long life and refurbing them when the time comes is comparatively inexpensive. For 2k you might find a set of MLs and a decent sub.
In any case, several speakers that you listed don't provide the easiest loads to drive so you may need to budget for additional amplification at some point...

Good luck and keep us posted...

[ronning]

I agree with Joe on his take on ESLs and their attributes, and would just add that if I were in the market for a $1500-$2000 speaker I would strongly consider used equipment. Speakers especially have a long life and refurbing them when the time comes is comparatively inexpensive. For 2k you might find a set of MLs and a decent sub.
In any case, several speakers that you listed don't provide the easiest loads to drive so you may need to budget for additional amplification at some point...

Good luck and keep us posted...

Agreed... I baerly missed a pair of Clarities on Ebay for under 2k... :sad:

Regarding amp power, I'd rather not go separates.. at least not for a while. That was my only concern with the MLs (and especially for the Magnepans..)

edit: I'm happy with my Yammie receiver and the simplicity an all-in-one receiver affords. The manual states that it is 4 ohm stable and outputs 110x7 @ 8ohm (I believe it's roughly 150x7 @ 4ohm)

[ronning]

Any comments on Focal?

I found the Profile 918 while searching online - gorgeous looking speaker

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, I like Focal, definitely put it on your short list and audition.

I also second the Quad 22L recommendation. Gorgeous in rosewood (7 layers of lacquer!). Plus it sounds fine, too.

[musicman1999]

The foca-jm labs are outstanding speakers,but i think the profile series is above your price range.I have a full 5.1 cobalt series set up and i am very happy with them.They look good and sound great.Just a word of warning however,Focal speakers are a little on the bright side and are very revealing,so matching them with a Yamaha reciever may not work out that well.

bill

[drseid]

Since you appear to be open to used floorstanders, I recommend you be on the lookout for a pair of Sonus Faber Grand Piano Homes on audiogon.com. They are good looking, but also deliver the goods on the sonics too. Usually these guys go for $2200-2300 used, but occasionally you can find them for 2K/pr. like here: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1162276767

One disclaimer: I have no association with the seller of the product on Audiogon... I just did a quick search and found them.

Good luck,

---Dave

[RGA]

The best advice is to keep looking. You have a big list - when one actually impresses you a LOT the others will fall into the camp of "what did I ever see in those to start with." You have listened a lot which is good -- but there are hundreds of other companies -- listen to some of those - you might be surprised.

[topspeed]

Good list and suggestions so far. It appears you prefer narrow baffle speakers with perhaps a modern touch. Some suggestions for audition:

Def Tech Mythos - monopole, not bipole.
http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/resources/products/image1/Mythosone.jpg

Vienna Acoustics Schonberg
http://www.audio-cinema.co.uk/images/vienna_acoustics_schonberg.jpg

Von Schweikert VR2 (on the left)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue5/images/Von_Schweikert_VR2_and_vr1.jpg

Polk LSi15
http://www.onecall.com/ImageCache/polk%20audio_lsi15cherrypr_300x250_s.jpg

NHT ST4
http://www.kingsound.co.kr/photopool/nht_st4_01.jpg

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. You might also try this thread (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10906) in which we polled everyone for speakers they thought offered the best bang for the buck under $2K.

Hope this helps.

[ronning]

The best advice is to keep looking. You have a big list - when one actually impresses you a LOT the others will fall into the camp of "what did I ever see in those to start with." You have listened a lot which is good -- but there are hundreds of other companies -- listen to some of those - you might be surprised.

The problem is finding speakers to audition... Other than Definitive Audio and Magnolia Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where else to look in the Seattle area.

[ronning]

Good list and suggestions so far. It appears you prefer narrow baffle speakers with perhaps a modern touch. Some suggestions for audition:

Def Tech Mythos - monopole, not bipole.
http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/resources/products/image1/Mythosone.jpg

Vienna Acoustics Schonberg
http://www.audio-cinema.co.uk/images/vienna_acoustics_schonberg.jpg

Von Schweikert VR2 (on the left)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue5/images/Von_Schweikert_VR2_and_vr1.jpg

Polk LSi15
http://www.onecall.com/ImageCache/polk%20audio_lsi15cherrypr_300x250_s.jpg

NHT ST4
http://www.kingsound.co.kr/photopool/nht_st4_01.jpg

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. You might also try this thread (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10906) in which we polled everyone for speakers they thought offered the best bang for the buck under $2K.

Hope this helps.


Thanks!

Yes, you're right, I love that slim narrow baffle look. I believe the B&W XT4's are the best sound for slim design, my goal is to audition them more carefully in comparison to the Studio 60's and Monitor Audios (my current "best bang for the buck" selections)

The Mythos are beautiful, but I've haven't heard good things about them - soudwise. Maybe I'll check them out.

[ronning]

How about the Wharfedale Pacifica Evo-400?

http://www.iagamerica.com/wharfedale/pacific.htm

[Dusty Chalk]

The problem is finding speakers to audition... Other than Definitive Audio and Magnolia Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where else to look in the Seattle area.The thing to do is pick some companies that list dealers in your area, even if you don't like that particular dealer. Chances are, that dealer will stock other brands as well. Dynaudio (http://www.dynaudiousa.com/company/dlrpgs/WA.htm), for example, yields Experience Audio (http://www.experienceaudio.com/), which you should visit.

[topspeed]

How about the Wharfedale Pacifica Evo-400?

http://www.iagamerica.com/wharfedale/pacific.htm
I've only heard the big Warfie Opus and that was a pretty good all around speaker. I believe they use the ATC mid-range driver and the integration between tweeter and mid was exceptional. They didn't have nearly the dynamic range of the VR2, but very few speakers do. Decent bang for the buck and you can get them online from audioadvisor.com, a site with a 30 day audition period. :thumbsup:

[daviethek]

They are weird, but so are you. Just kidding. They sound great and they are not for everyone. But the style is distinctive and if you don't like them without grilles, the grilles are beautiful semi-transparent black. A bit pricey new but mybe in your range slightly used. good luck to you.

http://www.roundsound.com/reference-speakers.htm

[ronning]

re: Anthony Gallo

I saw these a while back while searching online.. my initial response was "wow, cool", but after consideration, they're just weird but not really beautiful.

[ronning]

After some extensive auditioning yesterday, I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

B&W 704
Martin Logan Clarity
B&W XT4
Monitor Audio RS8

The top 2 have the best sound, the bottom 2 have the best looks (and still very very good sound). The MAs are obviously the cheapest (and can be found on the internet for really cheap).

Next up: Dali, Snell, and Wharfedale (if I can find them...)

I saw the Maggies up close and in person - I didn't realize how big they are! They're just giant black monoliths.. exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Although I do like how *thin* they are. The other problem is I would need improved amplification to run them.

[3db]

The current situation: Yamaha HTR-5760 110x7 receiver, Philips SACD/DVD/CD player, Denon DP-45 TT, Infinity Delta 60 (x4 - LR, SL, SR), Infinity Delta Center.

The Deltas are great, but they're *huge* and I know there's better sounding speakers out there. I'd like to upgrade sound but downgrade size. Sound quality *and* aesthetic beauty are important to me (these will be part of a modern living room environment). My target is $1500 for the front LR, maybe up to $2000 if I can justify it.

What I've auditioned:
Monitor Audio RS-6 | $1000/pair | Beautiful rosenut cabinets and aluminum woofers! Great, warm, full sound from a *tiny* floor standing box. Imaging is decent. A little lacking in bass "oomph"

Monitor Audio RS-8 | $1500/pair | Same beautiful cabinet and imaging, but with fuller, more dynamic sound, but not as rich of a midrange as RS-6. Fantastic bass for what's still a small tower.

B&W 704 | $2200/pair | Nice rosewood finish. Interesting cabinet design - I'm not sure if I like it or not - yellow kevlar woofer is a little weird looking. Fantastic sound, imagine, and rich midrange. Lacks bass oomph. Corresponding center/surround speakers a bit weird / expensive.

Paradigm Studio 60 v.3 | $1700/pair | Also available in a rosewood finish - although not as bright and glossy as the MA's. Beautiful sound - almost as good as the B&W's. Most bass oomph of the bunch. Front black fascia & drivers are a bit ugly.

Martin Logan Clarity | $2600/pair | Cool-looking speakers - unique. I always dreamed of owning Electrostats as a kid. Wide open sound - most lifelike of the bunch. Lacks bass extension (has mid-bass oomph, though), finicky with positioning, expensive to setup as 5.1 system, towers are "visually" very big (biggest of the group). Also very expensive. No rosewood finish available.

B&W XT4 | $2500/pair (going on sale, though...) | Awesome-looking - super slim and sleek. Sound is "narrower" - lacks bass extension and midrange is more closed. Very cool aluminum finish (& matching surround speakers)

Paradigm Monitor 7 | $1100/pair | not much to say... may as well buy the studio 60's...

DefTech something... (big black monolith thing) | $1000/pair | big, powerful bass (powered sub), somewhat more ambient sound from bipole (but not a "good" ambient like the Martin Logans). Great HT speaker, but otherwise uninspiring (and big and ugly!)


Can you get a feel for what I'm looking for?? I'm looking for other suggestions on what to audition or research on.

Any help is much appreicated - thanks!!

:idea:


Look at PSB's Stratus Goldi or the Silveri. No speaker audition is complete with those.

If they run a little high, look at PSB's Image series. I prefer them (owning a pair of T45s myself) over the monitor series from Paradigm. Let us know what you think

[paul_pci]

After some extensive auditioning yesterday, I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

B&W 704
Martin Logan Clarity
B&W XT4
Monitor Audio RS8

The top 2 have the best sound, the bottom 2 have the best looks (and still very very good sound). The MAs are obviously the cheapest (and can be found on the internet for really cheap).

Next up: Dali, Snell, and Wharfedale (if I can find them...)

I saw the Maggies up close and in person - I didn't realize how big they are! They're just giant black monoliths.. exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Although I do like how *thin* they are. The other problem is I would need improved amplification to run them.


You will probably need improved amplification to run any of these potential choices.

[ronning]

You will probably need improved amplification to run any of these potential choices.

I'm trying to figure that out - I get conflicting reports.

My Yamaha HTR-5760 is rated at 110x7 @ 8ohms, and has "high-current" capability with a selector switch on the back for 4 ohm for all 7 channels.

Is this not enough?

[nightflier]

Several mail-order companies offer 30-day in-home trials. This may actually give you a better idea of what they sound like outside of the showroom. One company that has given me excellent service & support is Axiom Audio. I have a set for my HT setup and they are a great value. The M80 towers are very highly reviewed and come in a variety of finishes. Some other speakers I have tried and liked: Odyssey Nightingales, Monitor Audio GS20's, and Wharfedale 9.6's (AA has a set on clearance), and Vienna Mozarts.

As a side note, I have been somewhat underwhelmed by the lower end electrostatic speakers from Magnepan and Martin Logan, so make sure you don't get the least expensive models just for the name. There is a substantial difference in sound between these and their higher end stuff. If you're going to go the electrostatic route, stick to the 1.6 & above with Maggies / the ESL Series and above on the ML side.

[paul_pci]

I'm trying to figure that out - I get conflicting reports.

My Yamaha HTR-5760 is rated at 110x7 @ 8ohms, and has "high-current" capability with a selector switch on the back for 4 ohm for all 7 channels.

Is this not enough?

For more efficient speakers the receiver may be enough. For instance, I auditioned B&W 705s once and the guiy was playing it on B&K separates, and when I told him that I have a Yamaha receiver, he switched them to a similar model and they sounded roughtly the same. But for inefficient 4ohm speakers, you're just going to either overtax your receiver or not get the full capability out of the speakers.

[ronning]

Yesterday I found and visited a few more esoteric audio shops in Seattle. I auditioned the following speakers:

Ruark Prologue II | $1600/pair (USED) |
Wow, gorgeous warm, rich, buttery sound! Amazing amounts of bass from a 2-way speaker. Low end and midrange were the best part of the speaker. Hi-end was natural and smooth, but lacked a tiny bit of the "sparkle" of the metallic dome speakers I've been auditioning. Granted, these were also running on a Rega CD player and NAD amplifier.
These speakers are also beautiful with dark cherry (red) finish. The black paper woofers are less exciting (looking) than the silvery-white ones of the Monitor Audios, and the finish is not quite as brilliant. The other disadvantage is that these are a discontinued model, and the store owner only has the matching center in light cherry finish. :sad: He said he was giving me "a deal" for these used at $1600/pair - does that sound right?

Dali Ikon 6 | $1600/pair |
I auditioned these and was not really impressed. The brown papery woofers are ugly, the hybrid tweeter sounds harsh, and the overall sound not terribly exciting (although I can tell they would probably make very good HT speakers)

PSB T-45 towers | $800/pair |
Nice looking set of speakers with some interesting front-baffle design cues. Dark cherry finish is a little 'brownish' for my taste, but still nice and a good match for the silver front baffle and woofers. The soundstage was nice and wide, but the bass was "woofy" and uncontrolled. The MA 6's sound much better, look better, and are only $200 more a pair.

Rega R5 | $1500/pair (?) |
I forgot to ask if these were new or used..
Sound was nice and encompassing. Detailed mid/high tones. Bass felt a little "disconnected" from the the rest of the speaker - probably because of the side-firing woofer.
I found the cabinet design somewhat uninspiring.

Quad 21L | $1300/pair - out on loan!
I didn't get a chance to hear these, but look forward to auditioning them early next week

[nightflier]

Ronning,

The Ruarks are a bit steep at $1600 a pair, used. They were $2K new in '02 and the average used price is $1170 according to Audiogon. Given that you seem to really like these (and they are very nice speakers, IMO), you should see if you can get a better deal. Maybe if you agree to take the center as well?

I'm surprised the PSB's bass was not tight. That is certainly not somthing PSB would overlook. That said, I think the Quads will be an improvement in sound and looks, expecially if you liked the Ruark sound. The Quads retail for $1299 and go for about half used, and I should add that these are also '02 model speakers.

One more detail, both the Ruarks and the Quads will perform a lot better with a seperate high-current amp. The Yammy will drive them, but it may not sound as nice as it did in the showroom. You will probably be missing some of that bass you liked, but with a good sub, you should be OK.

[ronning]

Ronning,

The Ruarks are a bit steep at $1600 a pair, used. They were $2K new in '02 and the average used price is $1170 according to Audiogon. Given that you seem to really like these (and they are very nice speakers, IMO), you should see if you can get a better deal. Maybe if you agree to take the center as well?

I'm surprised the PSB's bass was not tight. That is certainly not somthing PSB would overlook. That said, I think the Quads will be an improvement in sound and looks, expecially if you liked the Ruark sound. The Quads retail for $1299 and go for about half used, and I should add that these are also '02 model speakers.

One more detail, both the Ruarks and the Quads will perform a lot better with a seperate high-current amp. The Yammy will drive them, but it may not sound as nice as it did in the showroom. You will probably be missing some of that bass you liked, but with a good sub, you should be OK.

Good to know about the Ruarks. The guy quoted me $2400 for a new pair... I just found these online new (eventhrough they are discontinued) for $800gbp, which is about $1400 (plus $150 shipping). In that sense, I'd be better off buying from that online uk retailer, getting them new and buying the correct finish-matched center as well (which they also sell).

I'm very interested in the Quads and can't wait to hear them - if they are sonically similar to the Ruarks. Personlly I think the Quads have a better finish, and are also more readily available (both new and used).

Regarding the PSB's, I enjoyed their sound very much, but it just wasn't quite the same after listening to B&Ws and the Ruarks.

[Rock789]

if you are still looking at other companies, I would 2nd Von Schweikert and Focal JM Labs
goodluck,
Mike

[bigfanga]

Heheheh.....the Quads are gonna suck you in. Although I still think you should go with the 22s rather than 21s. I bet if you saw them in the birdseye maple your search would end right then & there.


EDIT: Almost forgot...you should check out Neat Acoustic's line of speakers. They have nthe angled cabinets like Audio Physics, Focal's inverted tweeter, and the Scanspeak drivers like Audio Physic. They're a bit pricey and info is not very plentiful on them but I have read some good reviews in the Brit hifi mags. I believe you can find out more about them at Bluebird's site as they are the US distributor.

[nightflier]

Ronning,

There's a pair of Ruark CL20's on audiogon right now. They are right in your price range:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1163475748

[ronning]

Narrowing down my choices...

I still haven't heard the Quads (I've been really busy lately - starting my new job), but will get to that hopefully today or tomorrow (if they're in).

Those Ruark CL20s look nice, although not as nice as the others I heard/saw earlier, and they're not any cheaper.

I'm still really interested in the ML Clarity's, and they're are a few for a decent price on Audiogon. I'm wondering 2 things, though: amp power and speaker placement.

Currently, my space looks like this:

__[------------]__[-----------]__
|
|
| |
|__|___------------------_____

[-------] = full-height windows (w/ venitian blinds)
------- = faux wall (about 75% open)
the right wall isn't rendering, so the big open space on the right is a wall with a smaller window
the funky thing in the bottom left corner is a half-height stairway leading down to the living room
It's about 20x12

Right now I have the sofa against the faux wall facing the windows, and the av system between the two big windows (front speakers standing about 1 foot in front of the windows).

I'm considering moving the setup so that it faces the right wall, with the sofa floating in the middle of the room. I'm thinking this would give me more space behind the front speakers and better placement for the rear speakers.

I wonder if this setup would work better, especially for the MLs?

Also, I currently have the Yamaha receiver - with plans to upgrade but for probably not another 3 months (waiting for HDMI receivers to get better). The guy at magnolia hi-fi said i'd have no problem, and he auditioned them using a Denon mid-range receiver (3804, i think).

Just thinking outloud here... feel free to add your thoughts :rolleyes5:

[dingus]

ronning, dont you live in the Seattle area?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ele/210207913.html

[ronning]

ronning, dont you live in the Seattle area?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ele/210207913.html

very nice and good price, but they're kind of big black monoliths, which is exactly what i'm trying to get away from in my current Infinidy Deltas. They'll also require more amp power to run.

[bigfanga]

Here's the ticket for you:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1163875575

BTW, you're going to need to upgrade power significantly (more than a receiver) to drive the ML's also.

[Dusty Chalk]

I don't really know what to tell you about the windows. Here's the thing -- glass is highly reflective, acoustically. So that can be bad, but it can be made to work. One thing I would not do is make it asymmetrical, so that they're all on one side. You're going to get a very "live" sound on that side, and a relatively dead/inertish sound on the other. And it's going to sound...well...lopsided.

I actually have a similar problem with my home studio, and I'm going to make removable "stuffers" that fit exactly into the window that I can take in and out. Yours being full-sized, I wouldn't recommend that, but unless you're going to get a glass door for the fake wall, I wouldn't move the setup. And Martin Logans are basically dipoles, so they're going to reflect hard on anything behind them. Now, that can be okay, if you want to make your sound a little more live (and you do if you have all the open spaces I'm picturing that you do). So you may want to just try a pair of speakers in there -- do the old, buy and sell and buy and sell and trade and buy and sell thing until you find the perfect pair of speakers. Your room is going to require a lot of home auditioning.

Although, now that I think about it -- your room is like a lot of retail stores I've been to (Tweeter, etc.).

[Steve Burger]

The problem is finding speakers to audition... Other than Definitive Audio and Magnolia Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where else to look in the Seattle area.

I am new to this forum. I live in Bellingham, WA and am into Audio. To Ronning, you can email me at steven.burger@comcast.net or call me at my studio at 360-318-8717. I may have some ideas for you. Hope to hear from you. Steve

[nightflier]

Ronning,

The windows can easily be dealt with by hanging up some curtains. If they fold vertically (like most curtains do) then they will be ideal. You'll want to reduce the light for the TV anyhow.

[csukasem]

Hi,

I used B&W 805 Signature for 5 years and ended up with Anthony Gallo Ref 3.
I used to think that B&W 805 Sig. offered best sound image but I was wrong.

Anyway, you have to accept uncompromising feature of Gallos.

Sukasem C.

[PapoHT]

Hi,

I used B&W 805 Signature for 5 years and ended up with Anthony Gallo Ref 3.
I used to think that B&W 805 Sig. offered best sound image but I was wrong.


The BW's are good speakers, but they can indeed be "directional" i.e. Positioning is the key, and you definitely needed a sub with them...

[PapoHT]

For more efficient speakers the receiver may be enough. For instance, I auditioned B&W 705s once and the guiy was playing it on B&K separates, and when I told him that I have a Yamaha receiver, he switched them to a similar model and they sounded roughtly the same. But for inefficient 4ohm speakers, you're just going to either overtax your receiver or not get the full capability out of the speakers.

Good point. I am currently running B&W 803's on a Yamaha receiver. The sound is good, but my room is also average, i.e. not big. But I know I will need to upgrade my receiver in the future and I know when I do, there will be an improvement in sound. B&W's are very power hungry and more amplification will make them sound better at all volume levels.

[Miphd]

Just to put in my two cents, for whatever they're worth. I've been into audio for a bit now though I'm just really starting to work my way up the ladder towards decent gear.

This past weekend I finally found an amazing deal on a demo pair of Monitor Audio RS8s ($590/pr!). While I haven't had a chance to do a lot of critical listening I can say that they have a great clarity and presence to them, not to mention one of the most beautiful finishes I've seen (and tight, fairly deep bass response to 33hz at -3dB).

Not being entirely familiar with your listenting tastes nor the other speakers you're looking at, I would still throw my vote in for the RS8s as they only sound better in bigger rooms with quality amplification. That and they're 6 ohm speakers at 91dB sensitivity which will help avoid the need for upgraded amplification. I just wish I had a decent amp to go with them, that I didn't have to sell to pay for them (vintage pioneer tx1250 at 165wpc).

Also, I'm in Bellingham like some of the other people. There are some local shops here that you can audition Snell, Vienna Acoustics, Sonus Faber and a few others at. Good Guys also carries Monitor Audio, and if you're up for the drive, A&B Sound in Vancouver, BC carries Energy, Mission, Totem, I think Paradigm, and a few others.

Enjoy!

[superpanavision70mm]

The problem with auditioning speakers in shops is that you are not using the speaker under the conditions that you will be using in your home. Not just by the room dynamics, but also the components. It would probably be the most helpful if you are able to test them out for yourself in your home if you know a dealer who is willing to do that, which they should if you are going to be giving them business. The other alternative would be to take your gear to them so you can try alot of different things in a short time span.

[Hyfi]

Nobody mentioned Dynaudio. If you like the B&Ws, you will get way more bass from the Danes as well as a soft dome silk tweeter that is less fatiguing overall compared to metal dome tweeters. I have the Audience 82s but would suggest the next model down, the 72 or 72se, given your reciever. I chose the Danes over B&W for the reasons stated, over the JMs because of overall lack of bass extension although they excel in speed and detail for shorter listening sessions. I do own a pair of JM Tantal 509s and they are fantastic for what I paid. Also as ststed, look at the PSB Gold or Silver. The gold would rival the Dyn 82s. The suggested NHTs are a good bang for the buck also.

[cvc]

I have Monitor 9i's. Man, they sound great. Maybe you have already read this review of the Monitor Audio's recently in Stereophile magazine. Read it completely. The last line says it all.

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/

[nightflier]

I'll second what cvc said about Dynaudio. I have the Audience 72's and they have excellent bass response, don't require (or rather don't have the option) for bywiring/amping, and have some of the best construction I have ever seen in a speaker. Just make sure you have the amp to drive them; they are not very efficient speakers. Here are some towers that are selling on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNAUDIO-AUDIENCE-62-AUDIOPHILE-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ250034564821QQihZ015QQcategoryZ14 993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-DYNAUDIO-CONTOUR-1-8-MKII-SPEAKERS_W0QQitemZ110040083489QQihZ001QQcategoryZ1 4992QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150041941995&fromMakeTrack=true

The last pair is very nice.

[PeruvianSkies]

One other thought...

What if you spent a little less on your speakers and invested in a good solid amp to really drive them?

[cjfast]

Hey I'm a 'newbe' here, but I just picked up a pair of the RS8's and what I found to clean up the sound of tweeters IMMENSELY is to pull of the grills on the tweeters. IT smooths out the sound, gets rid of some nasty sibilance and just opens up the sound. Makes it A MUCH BETTER speaker...that's if you chose em'.

Good luck.