Pardigm vs Athena

[steltz02]

I have a Yamaha RX-V496 receiver. 70 X 5
I currently have a pair of KLH 3-way towers which cause my receiver to go into protection mode when I turn the volume up too high.
I am looking for a speaker set up (more towers or bookshelves and a sub) to complete my system for somewhere around 250 bucks.

I am trying to decide between the Athena SB-1 and the Paradigm Titan. Both have extremely high ratings on this site, and both are around the same price $180 bucks. I am also probally going to get a subwoofew to add more bass.

If anyone has any thoughts or comments on what I should do about my speaker setup and what will complement the Yammy best please speak up.

Thank you,
Matt Magz

[steltz02]

help?

[ryewoods]

I would go with the Athenas, I think they are a little bit better value, although both are very good at their price point. I would also check out the Ascend Acoustics CBM170 ($328, slightly more than you wanted to spend) and the Axiom M2i ($255). To me, the Ascends are the best value in the $300 range. Also look at the Athenas big brother, the SB-2.

[RGA]

I loathe the Titan and sooner keep whatever you have...because whatever is probably better.

Try and find a 3-4 year old set of B&W DM 302s. There will still be warranty tim on them without the harsh highs of the Titans and most all spekaers using metal tweeters in this price range. I had the 302s for 3 years until Itraded them in and the very day I traded them within 1houtr in fact they were sold. I actually prefer them to the new more expensive 303. The 302s retailed for $225 and can be found perhaps in the odd dealer's demo room. The Acoustic Energy Aegis 1, Wharfedale Diamond series, Mission M70 series all make standmounts new and used that offer solid value and smoother tonal sound than the Titan and less cost.

The stuff at Best Buy and Circuit City and Future Shop generlaly deserve the location because they're product is dreadful.

Revews by buyers here are OK for reliabiltiy concerns but their experience may be comparing their speaker to a telephone for all you know. And some negative reviews may just be out of jealousy or some other incompetant reasons.

Contrary to what you might think you can actually get a good speaker for $180US. You'd be surprised at what you can get going he used route. Last year I picked up a 2k integrated amp for $400.00Cdn, and it outclassed, surprisingly, a current MF integrated going for $3k. You can do that with speakers as well.

I have a set of top of the line Wharfedales form the early 90s that retailed for 2k but resale value means that I would likely have to sell them for $300.00-$400.00. WHich is why I may hold onto them. But if I did sell them then that person can embarass his/her friends Paradigm Studio 100 which that guy might have spent 2k on. The Wharfedales are more efficient more sensitive will play significantly louder with superior dynamics, impact and a smoother treble response with user control over mid and treble drivers.

Problem is that at 10 years old some work may need to be done like relplacing the rubber seals and cosmetically my Wharfedales are scuffed.

You'd probably get the little 302s for no more than $150.00 and IMO they're still king of the sub NEW $300.00 standmounts...In other words I have not heard better from the new crop under $300...not even from the same manufacturer.

[steltz02]

Thank you for your input guys. I am going to check out all of these speakers. Is the sensitivity of the speaker going to make a difference for my receiver?
Thank you.

[RGA]

The 302 has a 91 db sensitivity but has a minimum impedence of 3ohms. It would not be my favorite amp in the world to run. But I'm generally displeased with receivers running anything.

I missed that you wanted a sub as well. Not possible for $250.00 - at least not possible to get anything remotely half decent. Well I suppose if you could get a 302 on Ebay for $125.00 and a Paradigm sub(these I greatly admire just not their tweeters) for $125.00 MIGHT happen.

There is no $250.00 floorstander new that I would seriously consider. You'd have to buy something 15-20 years old and then it's a repair longjevity issue to worry over.

If your room is not too big standmounts can in fact offer a fair bit of bass. You might be able to talk down a dealer on the new DM 303 - I believe it goes for $300-$350.00US. I prefer the 302 but this one does have more depth and can probably play a bit louder. http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model%20DM303

[46minaudio]

I loathe the Titan and sooner keep whatever you have...because whatever is probably better.

Steltz on this site you can find 179 reviews where most will dissagree with this.
http://www.audioreview.com/Main+Speaker/Paradigm+Titan/PRD_121039_1594crx.aspx
So take what you read on here with a grain of salt and go listen for yourself.


The stuff at Best Buy and Circuit City and Future Shop generlaly deserve the location because they're product is dreadful.



This statment is a load of ****...Again go listen for yourself .Athena makes a fine speaker for the money.Because it is sold at best buy has nothing to do with the way it sounds..Lets face it we are looking at 200 dollar speakers...

[RGA]

Well the reviews here are by owners...without knowing what they have listened to BEFORE they bought doesn't help. Pretty much everything reviewed here is above 4 with a reasonable sample size. Yes you have to listen first I did...and I'm one of the 179 that would give it a lousy review...except I follow the rules on this site and won't review it if I don't own it.

By all means listen to the speakers, preferably agaisnt some real competition. It's one thing for a speaker to stand out against Bose at BB and quite another to stand out from something even remotely decent. One reason I like the panel approach in the Brit mags is because they compare em against similarly priced gear directly. Home Cinema Choice ripped the Atom and Micro and the former is tonally similar to the Titan.

Great 5 star rating on the Subwoofers though and well deserved. Not everyone likes the same thing...what else is new.

[46minaudio]

Well the reviews here are by owners...without knowing what they have listened to BEFORE they bought doesn't help. Pretty much everything reviewed here is above 4 with a reasonable sample size. Yes you have to listen first I did...and I'm one of the 179 that would give it a lousy review...except I follow the rules on this site and won't review it if I don't own it.

By all means listen to the speakers, preferably agaisnt some real competition. It's one thing for a speaker to stand out against Bose at BB and quite another to stand out from something even remotely decent. One reason I like the panel approach in the Brit mags is because they compare em against similarly priced gear directly. Home Cinema Choice ripped the Atom and Micro and the former is tonally similar to the Titan.

Great 5 star rating on the Subwoofers though and well deserved. Not everyone likes the same thing...what else is new.
Regardless of the rating system most of the 179 liked them..Again RGA we are talking about $200 speakers..I have posted a review that TN did comparing buget speakers.He also did this blind to eliminate bias.In the end him and his friends prefered the titans.I only biring this up because he has more experince in this field then U and I will ever have..Somehow you feel your opinion outweighs most of the 179.So How will you discredit TNs review?Also Athena just started selling speakers through BB and have been well rated.But I reckon in the audiophile word selling them through BB must make them sound like crap..
Well the reviews here are by owners
What does this mean anyway.Are you saying to pay no attention to them.If so do we also pay no attention to the ANs you own and boast about in everyone of your posts..

[markw]

Your disdain for Paradigm is well known and is becoming sort of a joke around here. It's your unwillingness to accept the fact that others (quite a few, in fact) like them fine. Are you saying they are wrong or, more importantly, that their opinoins are less important than yours? Are you saying they are not happy? ...or that they shouldn't be happy?

It's this "ivory tower" attitude of yours, where differing opinons are not just different, but wrong that makes your occasionally good posts seem to be in the minority. Continue bashing what many like and soon, very soon, none of your opinions will be looked upon seriously.

FWIW, you are fond of quoting Brit journals that echo your beliefs. Ever stop to think that other regions of the world have different tastes? I'm not overly fond of haggis, but it's got quite a following in Scotland, which is quite basically a part of the British Empire. Does that mean we should like it also?

[spacedeckman]

If your receiver is shutting down at the volume levels you are playing the KLH, you either have a faulty receiver, a faulty speaker, or are just playing the things at an unrealistic level. I'm gonna kind of lean towards C. In that case, either the Paradigm or the Athena will sound better, but probably isn't going to play as loud. If you are adding a subwoofer, set the receivers bass setting in the menu to "Both" and the speaker size to "small", get a good woofer, and you will probably be okay with either. If you are trying to complete your system, you have a long ways to go, since either new speaker will make your KLHs sound like doo-doo.

Before you start spending more money, you really need to focus on what you want when this is all over. If you are cranking the bass knob up in a futile attempt to get those KLHs to attempt to make some bass, a subwoofer will help you out. You are going to be hard pressed to find a subwoofer worth a crap for $250, let alone what remains after buying some decent entry level bookshelf speakers. Roll your bass knob back to the center and maybe start with a decent woofer. THEN upgrade your fronts, get some rears, get a center, and you are pretty much done...except for the upgrade path, which is gonna happen, so you might as well face it now. If you want a sub that plays loud for not a lot of money, you will need to find one of the one-note-wonderboxes which are very prevalent in the price range. JBL has one for $300, and Klipsch has one for $350 or so. Both will play pretty stinking loud, just don't expect them to go deep. Laws of Physics kind of get in the way there. There are some internet brands that I am unfamiliar with that get good press here. I've got a friend with the Yamaha 315 which for $300 has some pretty good output and goes pretty deep. Not a bad deal for the money.

Gotta go, wife is hollering.

[Woochifer]

Time to quit reading and start listening. I thought that the Athenas were okay, but nothing spectacular. Of course, that was at Best Buy -- horrible acoustical environment, unfamiliar source material, and patched and bypassed through a switcher board with who knows how much sonic degradation -- so they might indeed sound a lot better than my initial impression. The Titans are fine value speakers, and if you like a punchier sound, they definitely satisfy that preference. Don't bother with the sub just yet. In your budget, you're best off getting the best bookshelf speaker that you can afford, and just save up for a better sub (the good ones that can handle the LFE range for a typical DVD will be more in the $300 and over range).

Considering that Yammies in general are good at handling tough loads, it's a bit of a concern that the KLH towers would lock up your receiver. On those I would check the wiring and make sure no stray strands are touching one another. I don't think you need something with the ultimate efficiency, but the Titans I know are not at all a difficult speaker to drive.

In terms of used speakers, it's a bit of a risk since you don't know how they'd been handled or how much they got pushed by their former owners. Go with whatever route you're more comfortable with.

[steltz02]

You guys are starting to give me the exact information that I was looking for but I am still a little bit confused. If I end up getting the titans or the athenas are my KLH's going to become useless? I am looking to make a whole system eventally, but I dont have the money for that yet. For now I am just trying to get another pair of speakers that doesnt cost too much money, but allows my system to put out plenty of sound.

I think that I am going to eventually get a sub woofer.

For now though i have to decide on a pair of bookshelves.

I know that I can bring back the Athenas to BB if I dont like how they sound, but I cant bring the titans back if they arent treating me right.
Its just a hard decision.
I guess that I am looking for someone to tell me. " I have the yammy 496 and have tried both, and these are the ones that work the best" haha.

Alright, so the titans and the athenas will be easy to push with my yammy so that shouldnt be a problem. I just need to choose one according to how they sound and stick with it?

any more advice?

Thanks you very much. appreciate it.

[Jimmy C]

...(and the bigger ones) sounded really bad in the store. Boxy colorations were very prevelant, but I suppose they are "OK" in some ways. With quality software, at least the Titans can make a good showing (IMO, of course)... it's only until compared to better gear they fall apart (and they can fall apart quickly). For example, I was quite happy with them, for all sorts of music, UNTIL I heard something better, in MY room.

Sometimes speakers sound horrible in the dealer's room - I have heard the Sonus Faber Cremona ($7500...ouch!) that LITERALLY sounded worse than my Titans in my bedroom. The SFs were completely congested, no detail, smeared image, harsh.. you name it... VERY bad. Does this mean my Titans are better? Err, no. Point is, try at home if possible. Geez... those Cremonas were hooked up to thousands worth of Mac electronics to boot. I'll blame room acoustics and the salesman for playing too loud. The same store had the SF Concertos sounding pretty good (go figure...)

Since the boxiness of the Athena was easily detected in the store, not compared to anything, I would do the Titans. I had a lot of fun with my Paradigms, but I would also recommend building the BR1 kit from PartsExpress.com. This speaker is better in every way, BUT you must build them.

Enough rambling from me...

[steltz02]

That kit looks pretty interesting. Too bad I dont trust myself enough to build them.
I am liking the titans more and more.
I might go and buy the athenas expecting to bring them back. Just to see what they sound like in my room. If I LOVE them I will keep them if I am a little dissappointed I may bring them back and buy they titans.

Sound like a plan?

[Woochifer]

You guys are starting to give me the exact information that I was looking for but I am still a little bit confused. If I end up getting the titans or the athenas are my KLH's going to become useless? I am looking to make a whole system eventally, but I dont have the money for that yet. For now I am just trying to get another pair of speakers that doesnt cost too much money, but allows my system to put out plenty of sound.

I think that I am going to eventually get a sub woofer.

For now though i have to decide on a pair of bookshelves.

I know that I can bring back the Athenas to BB if I dont like how they sound, but I cant bring the titans back if they arent treating me right.
Its just a hard decision.
I guess that I am looking for someone to tell me. " I have the yammy 496 and have tried both, and these are the ones that work the best" haha.

Alright, so the titans and the athenas will be easy to push with my yammy so that shouldnt be a problem. I just need to choose one according to how they sound and stick with it?

any more advice?

Thanks you very much. appreciate it.

Before you do anything else, I think you should look out for the impedance switch on the back of your receiver. If you're using 6 ohm speakers, you need to switch the impedance from the default 8 ohm position to the 4 ohm position. I just remembered that your model probably has that switch in the back, and that's probably causing the protection mode to kick in earlier than it should.

As far as home comparison goes, you could always borrow a pair of the Titans from your local dealer and compare them to a pair of the Athenas that you buy from BB. That way you'll hear how they sound with your room acoustics, and assess how much you can push the receiver before it goes into protection mode. Basically, you need to hear them at home before you finalize any decision, and borrowing the speakers you're interested in is the best way to figure it out for yourself. All the Paradigm dealers in my area encourage customers to take the speakers home to trial.

[ryewoods]

That kit looks pretty interesting. Too bad I dont trust myself enough to build them.
I am liking the titans more and more.
I might go and buy the athenas expecting to bring them back. Just to see what they sound like in my room. If I LOVE them I will keep them if I am a little dissappointed I may bring them back and buy they titans.

Sound like a plan?

The PE kit is really a good idea as suggested (they most likely sound better than anything under $300) . The kit is basically a starter kit. All you need is a little practice soldering. I believe the kit comes with a diagram of the crossover layout, so you don't even have to know how to read a schematic. You can download assembly directions off PE's website. I would check it out to see if you think you are capable of doing it...it's really quite easy.

[steltz02]

I have 8 ohm speakers and I have the switch set to 8 ohm as well.

I think that this is the right selection for these speakers.

Borrowing the Titans sounds like a good idea. The closest dealer is 30 minutes from my house and I really wonder if they will be willing to let me "borrow" the speakers. Although that would be a great deal and I would have assurance that I was buying the best speakers.

Wow so much to think about, i am going to call the dealer to see if they would allow me to borrow the speakers for a day or two.

[Woochifer]

I have 8 ohm speakers and I have the switch set to 8 ohm as well.

I think that this is the right selection for these speakers.

Borrowing the Titans sounds like a good idea. The closest dealer is 30 minutes from my house and I really wonder if they will be willing to let me "borrow" the speakers. Although that would be a great deal and I would have assurance that I was buying the best speakers.

Wow so much to think about, i am going to call the dealer to see if they would allow me to borrow the speakers for a day or two.

Doesn't matter if the speakers are rated at 8 ohms, the thing is that most speakers have peaks and dips in their impedance, some of which go way below 8 ohms. The 8ohm rating is "nominal" impedance, but not the actual impedance for all frequencies. I would suggest that you go with the 4 ohm position and try it out. The protection mode will not kick in as quickly, but so long as you can't audibly pick up any distortion, you should be fine.

Most dealers will allow customers to borrow their demo models, so long as you leave a deposit.

[RGA]

Stetz - find out what else your dealer carries. If you're goingt o try out the speakers at home which is all very nice and good - if you don't have anything to compare it against then what is the point.

People have constantly attacked my OPINION of CERTAIN Paradigms. They say I make attacks on them. It's simply not the case. I don't like a lot of speakers - this forum has a lot of discussion on Paradigm because they're an easily attainable speaker...I'd have even more nasty comments for Castle, Cabasse, Hales, certain B&W's, Wharfedales, JBLs, Klipsches, and negative comments about aspects of Martin Logans.

I recognise that this is a $200.00 speaker and you can't expect the world. However there are $200.00 speakers I'd be happy to have over $800.00 speakers.

People do like the Titans - I don't. That is not an attack on people...Skeptic thinks any speaker that is not full range is crap...so thus any speaker under about 30k in today's dollars is in serious trouble of basically being called crap. Doesn't bother me that he would not like My speakers...if I listened to a lot of pedal organ I would have went another route myself. Of course i can add a sub later I suppose if I ever have the desire for such music.


The best advice is ALWAYS listen to the stuff yourself. Simply conveying that advertisisng has a certain SWAY factor built in. All products get great reviews so if you're thinking of speaker X and you do some research you'll find a great review of it to support you or to push you into buying that speaker. However most get their heart set on 1 or 2 before they even listen...I did this myself when I entered the hobby and sure enough I found great reviews in Stereophile, What Hi-fi and EVERY other magazine that did a review(This was of the Arcam Delta 290 integrated amp). I actually prefered the sound of a lesser known company called Sugden. But I felt the reviews were probably correct so I went with the Arcam.

As it turned out Stereophile never reviewed the Sugden A21a. All of this was in 1996-97 and the Sugden in that form was selling since 1989 and is still selling today.

Fastforward to a few issues ago and Sugden's A21a FINALLY gets a review in Stereophile(not a full out just an article). 14 years the amp has been selling and one of their reviewers finally listens. After talking to one of Stereophile's writers on another thread he admitted that this was easily the class leader. OOPs Does not help now does it? The magazine seems to suggest that what they review is the best products available but yet they missed the BEST integrated amp under $2k...it's not like it hasn't been around. The Brit mags had touted the unit for a decade...still do. http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=857

What does any of this have to do with the Titan? A lot. Most every product on this forum will have an average above four with the possible exception of Bose...assuming there is a a good 30-40+ sample size. Lots of people like the Titan a great deal and I'm not saying they're WRONG...it's a preferance.

Tom Nousaine found that a few of his friends in a blind test liked the speaker best out of several competitors. I tout Hi-Fi CHoice because they do blind panel listening even with manufacturers ON the panel who don't even choose their own speakers as best. It still doesn't mean YOU or I will agree with their assessments.

I take the attitude that people's money or budget is important to them. Perhaps because I have gone back to school I realize that to many people $200.00 is like $2000. I dislike the notion that well it's only $200.00 so who really cares if it's any good - they're all pretty much the same. If I buiy a $200.00 coat I want to make damn sure I like the colour and fit.

Now I suggested used speakers and your money will go a LOT farther with $200.00 on the used market. But, alas it's a risk some are not willing to take. I respect that choice as well.

Speakers that fall into your budget all of which I like(it's a preference) better than the Titan and some are less money and also have piles of rave reviews(remember they all do which is why ost are useless) are the following:

Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 and 8.2 http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/diamond8.htm

Mission M70 series (Been discontinued but still around...the 78 series is very good as well but might be priced slghtly above the Titan. http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2095 http://www.mission.co.uk/

Linn...you pick

Acoustic Energy Aegis 1...not around but people say the replacement is better is so I would take this in a millisecond. http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/

Energy C1 - possibly the C3...

B&W...You pick http://www.bwspeakers.com/

Boston Acoustics C or the little strange looking VRM series - not sure on pricing but both will be around the same or less. http://www.bostonacoustics.com/hs_products.asp?CategoryID=4

Tannoy MX2. I'm not usually a fan of Tannoy and I'm 95% sure this is the model I heard...looked like this anyway...regardless I would check it out http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=773

Others that I'm not sure of US pricing for but all sound - again in my opinion better -
Kef Q1, Monitor Audio B2, and Mordaunt Short has a new line in the store here competing with the Paradigm Montor series which and the Mordaunt's were IMO a much more impressive top to bottom with the box resonances and disconnected presentation.

Point is YOU have to listen to at least a few speakers in the same room with the same gear. Against nothing the Titan is something.

Make sure you listen for several hours and pay attention to the treble response and try if you can violin and acoustic instruments along with feamle vocals. You may like the Titan like some of those 179 - or you may hate them like some of those 179 and me.

Athena is sold in BB which is a bad sign. The reviews can say whatever they wish...but if I truly cared about my product I owuld not be selling it in junk stores with idiotic salespeaople in bad rooms - they're there JUST to sell a as many boxes and make the gig bucks as fast as they possibly can. Doesn't mean they're a bad speaker - the ones I heard were awful - and that may be the room(Or lack of one) and the equipment...but then the company had the choice to sell through those stores...why should I give them the benefit of the doubt and HOPE they sound ok in my home. Reviews are good, but oh yeah...everything gets a good review...except in Hi-Fi Choice and UHF and What-Hi Fi and Hi Fi News. I personally look at what these magazines don't get for review as well - not saying you should just saying that's what I do.

Good luck and listen to as much stuff as you possibly can as long as you can before deciding. Heck if you listen to a ton you are less likely to have any kind of buyer's regret that oh I should have tried X brand first becasue I much prefer my neighbor's X over my Y. :)

[F1]

You may also try $260 Polk RTi4 (not the lower model) or discontinued RTi28/38. I used to have Polk center that had the same/similar driver and it sounded quite pleasing. I still have very old Polk bookshelf speakers that use the similar tweeter with the cheaper Polk R series and it sounds more fatiguing. Good luck.

[markw]

...it's a rare dealer that won't allow you to return a speaker you've purchased within a week or so, assuming it's in good condition and all packing materials are there. If they won't do that, then they are not a good dealer, they are thieves.

That's the tactic I used a few years ago when I was going the route you are going. I listened to comprably priced (250-300/pair) units from Paradigm, Athena, Polk, Tannoy, Infinity, BA and B&W, although the B&W was a little over the price range, in my home. All except the Athena were purchased localy so no problem there. It takes a week or so to get used to any speaker, even in your home. Obviously, this took a few weeks but wound up with a pair of Athena AS-B2's which, by the addition of a matching center speaker and a pair of AS-F1's, became my HT system shortly afterwards. Also, the fact that I had these for almost the entire duration of the others allowed a good comparison.

FWIW, listen to music when evaluating speakers. I wish I had a nickle for every post that starts out "my speakers sound great on HT but suck on music..." If a speaker sounds good on music, it will sound good on HT. The reverse is not true.

[steltz02]

I am calling my local deal today to see if they allow people to bring speakers back within a week or so if they dont like the sound of the speakers in their home.

I am glad I got this input because it sounds like a great idea.

Could you rank the rest of the speakers that you tried out? How did the Titans compare?
Thanks

[RGA]

...it's a rare dealer that won't allow you to return a speaker you've purchased within a week or so, assuming it's in good condition and all packing materials are there. If they won't do that, then they are not a good dealer, they are thieves.

That's the tactic I used a few years ago when I was going the route you are going. I listened to comprably priced (250-300/pair) units from Paradigm, Athena, Polk, Tannoy, Infinity, BA and B&W, although the B&W was a little over the price range, in my home. All except the Athena were purchased localy so no problem there. It takes a week or so to getused to any speaker, even in your home. Obviously, this took a few weeks but wound up with a pair of Athena AS-B2's which, by the addition of a matching center speaker and a pair of AS-F1's, became my HT system shortly afterwards. Also, the fact that I had these for almost the entire duration of the others allowed a good comparison.

FWIW, listen to music when evaluating speakers. I wish I had a nickle for every post that starts out "my speakers sound great on but suck on music..." If a speaker sounds good on music, it will sound good on HT. The reverse is not true.

Good advice. Also some companies such as B&W offered through most dealers a 6 month policy where if by the end of 6 months you were not happy they would allow 100% of the money you paid to be put to one of their higher end speakers...a full trade-up. Which ain't too shabby.

Quite often speakers sound good on certain music and not on other music...if that's he case I'd avoid the speaker. In this price range though I would prefer a speaker not to exhibit gross bad habits like a bright treble or hollowness or box resonances. Some speakers will be a little more laid back or polite like the Missions to avoid fatigue but then are not as showy or dynamic as others and won't stand out immediately...often what stands out immediately can become irritating with longer listening.

Another person Mentioned Polk's RT series and I accidently left those off my list as well.

[spacedeckman]

"Athena is sold in BB which is a bad sign."

Best Buy is trying to move up the food chain a bit, give them a bit of a break. The Athenas are the best thing they've got going in the store on the speaker front. Although, if one would be willing to take soldering iron in hand and pad the tweeters a bit, those Yamaha floorstanders could be a very cool thing. But, you know, the whole warranty thing. But, I'm getting off topic. Anyway, they added Yamaha about 5 years ago, which was a step in the right direction, and the Athena thing was a good one too. The Klipsch move was good for PR, but the Synergy series is awful, as are their woofers. But they look better to Joe Sixpack.

I have recommended the Athenas a lot over the past couple of years, since they offer a lot of genuine performance for a very reasonable price. The fact that they are now available at Best Buy is a good thing. It will allow people to buy a decent, affordable set of speakers. Something far better than the Bose, JBL, KLH, Sony, or even Klipsch that they would have purchased and enjoyed in ignorant bliss. Now they have a pretty real choice in a speaker. I would much rather live with a pair of Athena F2s than those, to my ears, than anything I've heard out of Paradigm in the past few years. Paradigm has become sort of the Canadian 70's JBL to my ears. Not that it's a bad thing, but I outgrew that by the early 80s. Then again, I can't do B&W either. The shortest lived speaker in my system was the CDM1SE. That was an awful speaker, but it made me ante up to where I had to be. I always thought I wanted B&W, then when I did, I couldn't wait to get rid of them. Thanks to glowing reviews, I got out of them right...magazines are good for something. Helped a friend of mine ditch a Rotel CD872(?) which was someone's "digital product of the year". He wanted that real bad until he had it too. Then he wanted to sell it to me, but I didn't like it either, but some review reader got a good deal on it. It was AudioGONE.

Seems you've got a nice little system going. Some similarities to mine, although I'm a bit farther gone than you, and that friend of mine is farther gone than me...but he's nearly retired with no kids at home and has/makes more money than me. There are a lot of good cheap speakers starting to show up out there. Don't look down your nose at Athena since it is at Best Buy. That would be like turning your nose up at most of the British brands since they are now made or owned by Asians. That new AE1 is a killer little speaker from Acoustic Energy, but it is owned by some guy in Malaysia or something like that. Doesn't detract from the speaker, since there is still a lot of British speaker knowhow in the box. The little Quads are very cool, and cheap. And the list goes on. I don't judge until I hear, although I will admit that the internet brands make me a bit nervous. I just don't think that things like pairing up sets of cheap drivers on a tower speaker makes much sense, nor putting tweeters on the ends of a center channel. Two point sources...good thinking.

Hey, I'm just a two channel tube and vinyl junkie. What do I know.

[RGA]

Spacedeckman

I heard Athena for about 8 minutes and it annoyed me but I did state that it was a bad room with bad equipment. In fact, it was my first BB visit in Reno...there are no BB's or CC's in Canada. Best Buy did buy Future Shop and the store here now look exactly the same as Best Buy. The Athena's were in raised a bit and he system was going in an open space. So it's very possible in a better environment they'd be fine...but then the company should ensure they're in a better environment.

Polk ran into financial difficulty because they were failing in the high end...so they were forced into selling out and going to Future Shop. Polk wasn't good enough as high end speakers but they're also too good for Future Shop. And those sound pretty bad in Future Shop. So I'm willing to keep an open mind on Athena.

If it were me and it was truly between these two speakers I would gamble on the Athena's simply because I could not live with the other. I still say going used can offer a lot here. My Wharfedale's were 2k new and now I would probably be lucky to get $400.00 for them - $300.00US. They are ten years old...but man.

And there are lots of very good oldr speakers going for low money.

[spacedeckman]

Polk and Boston put themselves in the position they are in now. They let the Canadians take over the "two channel" market in the US, preferring the growth in HT. They weren't interested in the stodgy old two channel business anymore. They didn't figure that if center channels also came over the border from the GWN, their candied butts would be handed to them. And that's what happened.

Apparently Polk has a better reputation north of the border. It hasn't had one stateside for years, and was kind of seen as a "Hot in the 80's" brand. Going mass market was their only choice for survival. Boston has survived better on the reputation front, but not by a large margin. I've never thought of them (okay, since 1980 or so) as a "too good for there" brand.

There is a bunch of good used stuff out there. The reason my system is as nice is it is comes in large part from used stuff. I like to refer to the stuff I have as cast-offs from the less smart. My speakers were used, my amp was used, my pre-amp was used, and my former phono stage was used. My prior turntable was used, as was my prior pre-amp. Yep, I speak used real well.

Okay, I lied, the Polk story isn't very interesting. Just dumb business practice.

Listen on...

[steltz02]

My dealer wont let my "use" the titans and take them back they claim that they are too small to cover that kind of stuff.
I am going to buy the athenas as soon as I get the money and see ho wthey sound in my room, hopefully it will bring my sytem together.

[Evan]

I purchased a Yamaha RXv490 & Titans about 8 years ago. I have since upgraded to the Marantz SR5300 and added a PS1200 sub.
I have never had a problem running Titans with the Yamaha. Now with the higher powered receiver and the addition of the sub, they sound even better.
I can say I am very pleased with the way the Titans have performed for the investment I have made.I would love to step up to a much larger higher end speaker but not for awhile($$).

[steltz02]

It looks like your old receiver and my new receiver are about the same.
Is the sound that the titans can put out pretty incredible with the yammy?
Have you heard any other speakers on your yamm that you can recommend?
THAnKS

[Evan]

It looks like your old receiver and my new receiver are about the same.
Is the sound that the titans can put out pretty incredible with the yammy?
Have you heard any other speakers on your yamm that you can recommend?
THAnKS

A friend of mine has a pair of B&W's that sounded great, better than the Titans(more range). The difference is in the size and price, he paid approx. $650 for his and I paid $275 for the Titans. So it's really not a fair comparison, they did sound great though. I can't remember off hand what model they are?

[kexodusc]

It looks like your old receiver and my new receiver are about the same.
Is the sound that the titans can put out pretty incredible with the yammy?
Have you heard any other speakers on your yamm that you can recommend?
THAnKS
My mom and dad are running 4 Titans, a PDR-10 and a CC-170 I use to have about 5 years ago off an RX-V795a Yamaha receiver...the Titans sound fine to me on the Yammie. There's no chest pounding bass, but I haven't heard a bookshelf speaker that accurately delivers that for under $800. Bass is adequate.
My only complaint will probably raise some eyebrows: I don't find there's quite enough treble, I'm not sure what range of frequencies, but it's clear that this set up isn't quite bright enough. This despite the older yammies and Paradigm speakers being known to be relatively brighter than other setups. I attribute this to my listening preferences. I generally enjoy treble relative to most people I know. As a result I adjust the treble control knob some when I visit them. They have a soft wallpaper and carpeted room though, and it's also possible room acoustics are responsible.

I'm really impressed with how solid the Titans perform, even after all this time. I bought a set of Axiom M3Ti's to replace a pair of Titans I had in my dining room...the M3Ti's are pretty decent, but don't sound as good all things equal. A bit better bass, but very lacking in the midrange. I noticed this immediately and was rather disappointed, I gave the Axiom a few months for "break-in" and I haven't noticed a difference. I think Axiom has concentrated more on finish and colors than sound.
To be fair though, some friends of mine swear they get better when you buy larger Axioms.

As for Athena...sold at Best Buy or not, I like them. There's an aweful lot of more expensive speakers out there that don't sound as good. There not the prettiest things, but oh well. I'm told Athena replaced Sound Dynamics...one of my favorite entry level brands a few years back.
Either way you go, you'll enjoy your setup, and both speakers are rather versatile and should serve you well for years to come.
You also shouldn't have a problem selling either used when you're ready to upgrade, as both have substantial followings.
Good luck!

[steltz02]

Thank you for your post kexodusc it made me feel much more confident in my buying decision no matter which way I go.

Because my local dealer wont allow me to bring the titans back if I dont like them, I am going to buy the Athena AS-B1 speakers at best buy. If I dont completely love them, I will take them back and buy the Titans.
Thank you all for all of the input.

Matt

[kexodusc]

Steltz,
I don't necessarily think that's the best approach...I'd hate for you to return the Athena's not liking them enough, and then find out that you also don't like the Titans but are stuck with them.
Where do you live?
Many states (and provinces in Canada) have laws that allow for anywhere from 10-30 days for buyer satisfaction after purchases...I''ve personally been burned at a few jobs by such laws. A bit of research on your part might reveal the same in your area...in which case you could test both speakers and return that which you don't like..
But beware...you could find yourself getting "the bug" in which case, no speaker, no matter how expensive, is quite enough for you. That, my friend, will cost you alot of money :)

[steltz02]

I am sure that many of the people on this forum are in that boat.

I live in Ruston Louisiana. In between Monroe and Shreveport.
The Best Buy is in Shereveport and the audio store that I found is in Monroe.

The audio store told me that they were too small to allow returns. If a store comes out front and says that they cannot allow returns, I am sure that it is competely legal.

You have a very good point though about buying the Titans and not liking them either, that wouldnt be any good. I will try to find another store in Shreveport which sells Paradigms.

I am thinking that that will be my best bet.

Thanks again

[kexodusc]

I had to offer to pay a "restocking" fee when I turned down a set of Veritas for my Studios. I have a friend who works at my local hi-fi shop though, that might have helped. It was 25 bucks or something silly. I only had the floor demos for a night, there was no restocking but anyway, I understand salespeople don't work for free.
Maybe you should consider bringing a few CD's you are familiar with to test out both speakers...if one doesn't turn you off or hit the right chord for you, in that price range with those 2 models, there's nothing wrong with just accepting the best deal.
Let us know how you make out.