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tin ear
09-10-2006, 06:32 PM
What does anyone think about this TT? Or maybe a better one in this (or maybe slightly lower) price range?

I like that it is (semi-?) automatic. Not sure about the cart. tho.

Thanks
Jon
http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2326/.f?sc=9&category=-109

jrhymeammo
09-10-2006, 07:42 PM
How important is automatic feature to you? Since Auto TTs do not have remote control function you would still have to get off of couch. Here is what I see.
Manuall TT
---Activity 1, turn on the TT and drop the needle. Back to a chair/couch
---Activity 2, lift the needle after side A, flip then drop the needle on side B. Back to your favorite chair/couch
---Activity 3, when music is done, lift the tonearm and swap for another disc. Back to that warm spot.

Auto TT
---Activity 1, Place a record and hit play button. Back to.....
---Activity 2, tonearm goes back to the resting postion. If you choose to stop listening, you have saved about 5 kcalories by remaining in your seat. If not, get up and flip to Side B. Hit play. Back.........
---Activity 3(Optional), You may choose to save more energy in your seat in case of Armagedon. If so, auto function is very nice since arm will go back by itself. Or get up and swap for another record. Back to your seat.

Though if you love listening to LPs while cooking or doing something else. You dont have to worry about going back and forth.

If it's not that important, you may want to consider a brand new Music Hall/Pro-Ject entry-level TT. That'll cost you $150+ less. Also, I dont think you can get a significantly better TT than those for less than $1000 new.
I'll let someone else write about how extra functions on TT can potentially harm SQ.

I hope you didnt find my post obnoxious. That's not what I was trying to accomplish.

Looking around for a new purchase is very exciting, so enjoy as much as you can, and as long as you can.
Best wishes,
-JRA

likeitloud
09-10-2006, 09:02 PM
What does anyone think about this TT? Or maybe a better one in this (or maybe slightly lower) price range?

I like that it is (semi-?) automatic. Not sure about the cart. tho.

Thanks
Jon
http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2326/.f?sc=9&category=-109

That TT looks killer, I've been getting a vintage rig together, and may go this
route. Or stick with plan A. Let me know if you get it, and how it performs.
Later:14:

nobody
09-11-2006, 06:35 AM
I've got a Thorens TD-190 that is very similar. I've been told, in fact, that it is made by Dual, so they're probably really close. I've also been told many times that its a flimsy piece of crap.

But, I used a vintage TD-160 that gets lots of praise and to my ears my current table sounds just as good if not better, so I'm not so sure I agree. (although I did prefer the sound of a vintage AR) It's also lasted around five years now without a glitch, even though I've moved it through several apartments, so I'm not so sure build quality is as poor as I've heard it described.

Personally, I had something very specific in mind when I was shopping. I wanted a new table that played 33, 45 and 78 as well as something with automatic shut off. The shut off was important ot me as I listen to the turntable almost constantly at home, even when in another room or napping or whatever and something that would just turn itself off was a big deal to me.

The Dual and Thorens models were the only ones that met all my criteria for new tables. And, I bought the Thorens because I got a really good deal from a place closing them out cheaply. So, if that's what you're looking for, you're probably gonna stick with one of them, and I really doubt there's a tremendous difference quality wise between them. If you don't want or need to play at 78, Denon has just released an automatic table that sells pretty cheap and looks like it could be nice...never heard it though.

If you are fine with just a manual table, you have many more options and may be able to do better in absolute terms of sound quality. But, you'd probably be quite satisfied with the Dual if you really value its features.

jrhymeammo
09-11-2006, 04:09 PM
I listen to the turntable almost constantly at home, even when in another room or napping or whatever and something that would just turn itself off was a big deal to me.



I felt asleep while listening to a record one time. I felt asleep for about 2 hours and woke up cuz I had a dream about my stylus melting off.
If you have a habit of napping over music, auto function should be on the top of your list.

-JRA

tin ear
09-11-2006, 05:30 PM
Thanks, guys. I guess auto shut-off would be a lot more important than auto start, for the reasons you stated. Obviously it makes little difference whether I start a platter by mashing a button or operaring a cue lever.

Mechanical complexity hurts sound quality? Hmm... something to look into. I can see how extra idlers etc. could maybe add rumble, w&f. The main idea here is best sound bang for the buck, after all -- why else fool with vinyl anyway?


I hope you didnt find my post obnoxious. That's not what I was trying to accomplish.
Not at all. I found it informative and humorous. (Was the reference to armageddon in response to my 'member status' line? :cool: )


you may want to consider a brand new Music Hall/Pro-Ject entry-level TT. That'll cost you $150+ less. Also, I dont think you can get a significantly better TT than those for less than $1000 new. I've not seen that one; I'll look it up. I was looking at the MMF-2.1. I don't see a cueing lever. Now that's a little TOO manual; my hands are not that steady any more. :(

again, thanks, y'all

jrhymeammo
09-11-2006, 10:03 PM
It'll be worth the effort to call MD and see if they still have a demo of Pro-Ject Debut III (unknown color) for $235. I just ordered Speed Box from ASounds this morning, I should've called MD to see if I could've saved $25....

BTW, MMF-2.1s and Debut IIIs both have cueing lever. I believe 2.1 and D III is basically the same (Both made in a same factory). If yhou choose to narrow down to those 2 options, you may need to decide which cartridge you'll endup paying for.

Goldring GR-1.2 has WELL respected REGA like tonearm for $299. IF VTA was possible with a turn of screws, I would be all over it.

BackinHi_Fi
09-16-2006, 07:55 PM
Hi there fellow members. This is my first posting on this venue and I will use it with a double purpose, my introduction and sharing my 2cents worth on this thread. Even though I'm new to the site I did dabble in this addiction in the past (prior to military deployments and marriage). Now that I have retired from both I'm returning to analog Hi-Fi and partly away from H/T. So that being said, I guess it places me in a similar boat as you because I'm also searching for a new rig. Of course I'm using a different approach and sticking to what I know and afford. So I have been looking at some for vintage gear instead. I don't know what is your total budget but departing from the price of that Dual, if buying new is a must and without a chance to audition several different units, I would probably steer towards the Goldring. Then use the remainder of your budget towards a really good dedicated stand or bracket for it and also a mechanical auto arm lifter to prevent those times when your needle ends up playing hop-scotch at the end of an LP. Don't forget to figure in miscellaneous tweaking gear to adjust the T/T. A must in order to get the most out of your rig. That is unless you have an Audio shop on retainer.:ihih:
Although,:idea: If you are willing to entertain the used gear market then look through ebay & classifieds. My personal suggestions off the cuff will be either Rega Plannar 2 or Plannar 3 fitted with one of my favorite entry level arms the well known RB250, RB300 or the Linn Basik.Talking of Linn if you are lucky you may find the ultimate, an used Linn LP12. I have seen a few go for below the 500.00 mark.The Regas I've seen in the 3/400 realm. The downside to this approach is that you must be patient while you hunt for those and deal with a good seller. I also saw a CJ Walker CJ-55 fitted with a Linn basik T/A go for 300 & change. The Walker is not a very spoken off T/T but a good performer as well. BTW that was my intro rig to hi end tables about 30 years ago:thumbsup: . The downside to the later one is that, it might be difficult to find parts & support for it if ever needed. Although not so much for the Rega and Linn those remain very well supported. All above mentioned are made in England and for a good reason, I have to give credit when it is due those guys can really make a good T/T. I hope this helps some instead of adding confusion. The bottom line in my humble opinion is that the best rig is not solely judged in the quality of the unit but ultimately if it fits the budget and needs of the user. Good luck on finding your next turner.:cornut:

basite
09-17-2006, 01:38 AM
i had (i still have, but i don't use it anymore) a sony PS-T22 semi automatic tt, it drove me nuts, the arm lift was a *huge* button and if you pressed it it litteraly launched your tonearm in to the air and if you pushed it again, your cartridge was smashed on the record, when the record was finished, the tonearm went back automatticly, if the sticker in the middle of the record was big enough, otherwise it kept on playing, but if it went back (there was something with the mechanism that caused it) the arm went back, in the middle of the record it just stopped and then it was launched, followed by the tonearm being smashed against the armrest. i hated the tt.
anyways, there are pro-ject tt's which have an auto stop feature, i think you'll like them too.

jrhymeammo
09-17-2006, 01:43 PM
i had (i still have, but i don't use it anymore) a sony PS-T22 semi automatic tt, it drove me nuts, the arm lift was a *huge* button and if you pressed it it litteraly launched your tonearm in to the air and if you pushed it again, your cartridge was smashed on the record, when the record was finished, the tonearm went back automatticly, if the sticker in the middle of the record was big enough, otherwise it kept on playing, but if it went back (there was something with the mechanism that caused it) the arm went back, in the middle of the record it just stopped and then it was launched, followed by the tonearm being smashed against the armrest. i hated the tt.
anyways, there are pro-ject tt's which have an auto stop feature, i think you'll like them too.

That really scares me whenever I listen to LPs before making my purchase at my favorite stores. I love the fact most of stores allow people to listen before transaction, but some tonearm setups like to bounce before agreeing to nestle in. Also, I would love to align their cartridges so no records will be damaged, but they may find it to be insulting.

tin ear
09-17-2006, 03:03 PM
It'll be worth the effort to call MD and see if they still have a demo of Pro-Ject Debut III (unknown color) for $235. I just ordered Speed Box from ASounds this morning, I should've called MD to see if I could've saved $25....

-snip-

Goldring GR-1.2 has WELL respected REGA like tonearm for $299. IF VTA was possible with a turn of screws, I would be all over it.
Where have you found GR-1.2 for $299?

Who is MD?

Welcome to the board, BackinHi_Fi. Lots of good advice, there - thanks. I think SWMBO thinks I'm nuts, as much time as I spend looking at audio stuff all over the net. :crazy: dealers, audiogon, ebay, craigslist... :crazy:

tin ear
09-17-2006, 04:40 PM
-snip- Then use the remainder of your budget towards a really good dedicated stand or bracket for it and also a mechanical auto arm lifter to prevent those times when your needle ends up playing hop-scotch at the end of an LP. -snip-

I have no idea where to begin looking for one of those, but it sounds like a great idea. Who makes them?

Thanks
-jon

BackinHi_Fi
09-17-2006, 07:43 PM
I seem to remember that Audio-Technica used to market one and also Discwasher but then again this was 20 yrs ago when vinyl was still in full force, I imagine that it will take some digging since analog is only supported mostly by old audio nuts and seems that just recently started to pick up momentum. I am just getting back into this swing so if I find one I'll post. Do the same if you happen to find one.:cornut:

Ricardo
:idea: P.S. Maybe some of the old stereo junkies that have remained current ought to know who carries them now or at least remember more brands.

JohnMichael
09-18-2006, 07:56 AM
Where have you found GR-1.2 for $299?

Who is MD?

Welcome to the board, BackinHi_Fi. Lots of good advice, there - thanks. I think SWMBO thinks I'm nuts, as much time as I spend looking at audio stuff all over the net. :crazy: dealers, audiogon, ebay, craigslist... :crazy:


MD is www.musicdirect.com and they also sell "The Lifter" tonearm lift. One thing to keep in mind about the stylus in the leadout groove is it does no more harm then playing a record for that same amount of time.

jrhymeammo
09-18-2006, 08:14 AM
Dear Tin,

Pro-Ject I was talking about is on this page.
http://www.musicdirect.com/products/demos.asp

Goldring was on Needledoctor.com
They had that TT on sale for $299 for while. They are still on sale but at $369.

jrhymeammo
09-18-2006, 08:16 AM
OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Here it is.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=MHGR1.2&product_name=Goldring+GR-1.2+Turntable

They are in backorder. If you place an order now, and wait they have to honor the advertised price. Also, you should be able to within 2weeks.
Or, I would call NeedleDocs, and let them know that AudioAdvisor has then for $299 and make a deal(they should have them in stock). If they say no, call AA ASAP.

Good Luck

jrhymeammo
09-18-2006, 08:24 AM
Jrhyme is trigger happy today.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=DMMHGR1.2

Whaaaaaaaaaa??? Maybe I should call them up. I need VTA adj doe

musicoverall
09-18-2006, 10:00 AM
MD is www.musicdirect.com and they also sell "The Lifter" tonearm lift. One thing to keep in mind about the stylus in the leadout groove is it does no more harm then playing a record for that same amount of time.

Unless it rubs against the record label!

One thing about having a totally manual turntable (no cuing lever, no auto stop, etc) is that I cannot use vinyl as background noise. It "forces" me to listen attentively.

basite
09-19-2006, 07:12 AM
One thing about having a totally manual turntable (no cuing lever, no auto stop, etc) is that I cannot use vinyl as background noise. It "forces" me to listen attentively.

Define, "background noise"

tin ear
09-19-2006, 04:13 PM
Define, "background noise"

Ambience.
Back when vinyl was cheap, and it was basically all we had, one might put on a side, then go do chores (laundry, etc.). When the music stopped it was time to put on another record side. Now I guess vinyl is valuable enough to deserve your full attention.

I'm not sure I would have used the word noise, though. :rolleyes5:

basite
09-20-2006, 03:50 AM
I'm not sure I would have used the word noise, though. :rolleyes5:

indeed, that what's i was thinking too, vinyl requires your attention, and that's good, then you'll enjoy it twice as much as other music.