Kids Throwing Rocks at Cars Thrown in Jail

[tusharPATIL]

http://www.buzzhumor.com/videos/2690/Kids_Throwing_Rocks_at_Cars

They each got 5 years, which was well deserved. They could have killed someone. This was all caught on video by them.

[KaiWinters]

They are indeed lucky no one was killed.
They also got exactly what they deserved by the legal system.
They will get a bit more from the prison system when they become someones biotch.

[Bernd]

Fresh Fish for the Prison production line. I am sure they will come out full of good citizenship ideas, reformed and thankful for the 5 years education provided by the state.:frown2:

Peace

Bernd:17:

[JohnMichael]

Fresh Fish for the Prison production line. I am sure they will come out full of good citizenship ideas, reformed and thankful for the 5 years education provided by the state.:frown2:

Peace

Bernd:17:



If they are not killed or infected by AIDS if raped.

[shokhead]

They should be that hard on repeat DUIers.

[topspeed]

Fresh Fish for the Prison production line. I am sure they will come out full of good citizenship ideas, reformed and thankful for the 5 years education provided by the stateThey'll come out full of something, that's for certain.;)

[shokhead]

Its all about football. Go in a tightin and come out a wide receivers?

[GTF]

It should be 5 years without any parole.
The video and new video of these fine upstanding kids
in prison should be shown in all schools.
Teach the kids what not to do.

GTF

[jrhymeammo]

Did you guys see that Birthday Cake on the same page? LOL

[markw]

Fresh Fish for the Prison production line. I am sure they will come out full of good citizenship ideas, reformed and thankful for the 5 years education provided by the state.:frown2:

Peace

Bernd:17:Seems you don't seem to think what they did desreved severe punishment. What would you suggest? Slapping their wrists?

Boy for a guy from Germany who lives in England you sure seem to have a lot of anger against the US judicial system.

Then again, you railed against the state of Texas killing your buddy who shot a gay in the back of the head while his wrists were tied and he was kneeling down facing away from him.

I guess to you both these acts were just nice guys having fun.

[Bernd]

Seems you don't seem to think what they did desreved severe punishment. What would you suggest? Slapping their wrists?

Boy for a guy from Germany who lives in England you sure seem to have a lot of anger against the US judicial system.

Then again, you railed against the state of Texas killing your buddy who shot a gay in the back of the head while his wrists were tied and he was kneeling down facing away from him.

I guess to you both these acts were just nice guys having fun.

Mark, are you bored or looking for some agro.?
If you would have read my post accurately and not just jump in feet first with your US victim attitude you will find that I have not mentioned the US. You brought that in, not me.
I stated that if you put a teenager for 5 years in a prison you will not like the end product.
As for the Texas and Richard case, your statement is wrong, and I will just not get into it again. Water under the bridge and such like.
Do I have the answers you asked. Well prison doesn't seem to work, otherwise we wouldn't need to build more and more of the things.And spent less and less on Schools and education. And that goes for the UK aswell. Maybe asking the boys why they did that instead of something productive. That will give an answer.
That begs the question "Are people born evil or made that way"?
We as a society have to ask ourselves why people do such pointless acts like throwing stones at cars. But I guess it is a lot easier to just lock people up. Out of sight out of mind. I have no idea where this will all end or how many more people will be incarcerated, guilty or inocent, (same in the UK before you get all hot and bothered again).
I am sure that many people will never find themselves in a position to be break the law, but if by circumstance you find yourself in the crosshairs of the Justice machinery and lack sufficent funds, God help you.

Peace

Bernd:6:

[markw]

Mark, are you bored or looking for some agro.?
If you would have read my post accurately and not just jump in feet first with your US victim attitude you will find that I have not mentioned the US. You brought that in, not me.No, I read your post carefully and saw your meaning behind your words. Our past history makes that easy. You simply think criminials should be allowed to run free here.


I stated that if you put a teenager for 5 years in a prison you will not like the end product.Well, it's obvious by their arrogance and actions that not being in prison didn't do any good. Seems to me like they got away with too much for too long. These are not widdle innocent children. They are young aduts who knew the damage their actions could cause. ...and they laugh about it.

No, prisons are made to keep people like that away from people like me.


As for the Texas and Richard case, your statement is wrong, and I will just not get into it again. Water under the bridge and such like.No, it's not. Your buddy was a seltf-admitted, cold blooded murderer. Want me to repost those articles again? How about a link to that entire thread?


Do I have the answers you asked. Well prison doesn't seem to work, otherwise we wouldn't need to build more and more of the thingsWell, until you can provide better alternatives to those questions, prisons are exactly where animals like that should be. They are too lienient on the death penalty in my opinion. That would put a stop to a lot of stuff. ...and set a serious example.

And spent less and less on Schools and education. And that goes for the UK aswell. Maybe asking the boys why they did that instead of something productive. That will give an answer.Actually. we spend more and more on education but the educators are not allowed to provide dicipline when needed. And, these guys don't look like theyare exactly poor. After all,they had access to a videotape machine, spoke good english and appeares fairly well dressed. No, money isn't an issue here.


That begs the question "Are people born evil or made that way"?and my answer is: "No, they are allowed to become evil by not being stopped early in their life and being allowed to do whatever they please without fear of reprisials". ...until they really cross the line. like these two jokers.



We as a society have to ask ourselves why people do such pointless acts like throwing stones at cars.Because they can. Maybe too many video games and they became desensitized to "real world" violence? These are the kind of guys that started out burning ants with magnifying glasses and then graduated to more harmful endeavours, and nobody could or would stop stop them. They have their rights, you know.


But I guess it is a lot easier to just lock people up. Out of sight out of mind. I have no idea where this will all end or how many more people will be incarcerated, guilty or inocent, (same in the UK before you get all hot and bothered again).Again, what alternatives do you offer to hard time? Send them to their rooms without their din din?


I am sure that many people will never find themselves in a position to be break the law, but if by circumstance you find yourself in the crosshairs of the Justice machinery and lack sufficent funds, God help you.You're kidding, right? You make their crimes seem like jaywalking. Hey, I WANT monsters like this to be right in the crosshairs. I guess you see then as simply nice neighbors.


Peace

Bernd:6:Peace, my ass. You just don't want to see the truth.

[Bernd]

No, I read your post carefully and saw your meaning behind your words. Our past history makes that easy. You simply think criminials should be allowed to run free here.

Well, it's obvious by their arrogance and actions that not being in prison didn't do any good. Seems to me like they got away with too much for too long. These are not widdle innocent children. They are young aduts who knew the damage their actions could cause. ...and they laugh about it.

No, prisons are made to keep people like that away from people like me.

No, it's not. Your buddy was a seltf-admitted, cold blooded murderer. Want me to repost those articles again? How about a link to that entire thread?

Well, until you can provide better alternatives to those questions, prisons are exactly where animals like that should be. They are too lienient on the death penalty in my opinion. That would put a stop to a lot of stuff. ...and set a serious example.
Actually. we spend more and more on education but the educators are not allowed to provide dicipline when needed. And, these guys don't look like theyare exactly poor. After all,they had access to a videotape machine, spoke good english and appeares fairly well dressed. No, money isn't an issue here.

and my answer is: "No, they are allowed to become evil by not being stopped early in their life and being allowed to do whatever they please without fear of reprisials". ...until they really cross the line. like these two jokers.


Because they can. Maybe too many video games and they became desensitized to "real world" violence? These are the kind of guys that started out burning ants with magnifying glasses and then graduated to more harmful endeavours, and nobody could or would stop stop them. They have their rights, you know.

Again, what alternatives do you offer to hard time? Send them to their rooms without their din din?

You're kidding, right? You make their crimes seem like jaywalking. Hey, I WANT monsters like this to be right in the crosshairs. I guess you see then as simply nice neighbors.

Peace, my ass. You just don't want to see the truth.

Boy you have got some hang ups. Past history? What history? We had one long exchange a while back where you were hell bend on aggression. How is that history. You don't know anything about me.
I do believe that you need to get them very young and teach them. But lock them up when society has failed them for 5 or how many years and then what. Prison does not work. If it did we would have no repeat offenders.
Yes we need to be protected.
You and me are just too far apart. So it is totaly pointless to waste my time having an exchange with you and your point of view.
You are what you are.
And if the truth is the picture that you have displayed then no I do not want any part of that and a return to the Stone age.

Peace

Bernd:17:

[shokhead]

Seems you don't seem to think what they did desreved severe punishment. What would you suggest? Slapping their wrists?

Boy for a guy from Germany who lives in England you sure seem to have a lot of anger against the US judicial system.

Then again, you railed against the state of Texas killing your buddy who shot a gay in the back of the head while his wrists were tied and he was kneeling down facing away from him.

I guess to you both these acts were just nice guys having fun.

You might watch 30 days where the guy goes into jail,pretty interesting.

[Resident Loser]

Fresh Fish for the Prison production line. I am sure they will come out full of good citizenship ideas, reformed and thankful for the 5 years education provided by the state.:frown2:

Peace

Bernd:17:

...what would you suggest? This wasn't a lark or done on a dare...choosing proper projectiles, videotaping...it's premeditated, with malice and forethought...and they relished it!...up to five years? Sounds way too easy to me...Me, I'd have someone with a good and accurate arm throw some rocks at them first...give 'em a taste of their own chowder...maybe have 'em blindfolded so they'd never know when it was coming, just like their intended victims...but that would be considered cruel and unusual punishment...

And like it or not, the purpose isn't just punishment...maybe it will cause some other idiot(s) to consider the consequences of their actions...

jimHJJ(...or they could be treated like any other animal that causes harm...)

[Bernd]

Hi Jim,

I agree that the actions of these boys are despicable and I don't have the answers.:confused: But my main point is that prison doesn't seem to be working as we have to build more and more and there are record numbers of repeat offenders. So I was making the point that it probably isn't going to "Rehabilitate" or "change" these young men. I totally agree that we need to be protected and that these actions should not go unpunished - my question is - Is prison the right thing or - is it the only thing we have available to use - have we explored all the alternatives? The answer is probably to start a lot younger with amending this behaviour and making young people accountable. The problem is western society wide (it doesn't seem so prevalent in other cultures). I have first hand experience as my wife works in this field and she has really good examples of young people being turned around through intensive support, achievement and being placed in a flexible programme of work, study and social "development". We have to remember that many (not all), young people that display this behaviour have never been taught that it is socially unacceptable to behave in this way, they have no understanding of social responsiblities and no normal Family values. I understand the need of some people to get revenge but we have to look at the bigger picture and try to change the tide of "acceptable" violence and anti-social behaviour. That's all I was trying to say - I wasn't excusing what they had done - and I don't pretend to have the answers either!!

Peace

Bernd:16:

[shokhead]

Prison doesnt work,not for a long time.

[GTF]

Prison's don't work because they don't punish.
They hang out, Play basketball, do drugs, fight, harrass guards.
Real prison is what needed.
One to a cell.
Each cell 4 X 8
one stall shower
one cott
toilet
NO TV
NO radio
No books
No leaving their cell.
Just one horrible boring life locked down for years.
Education is not the answer.
Wayne B. Williams
Joel Steinberg
Ted Bundy
Too many lazy people not wanting to work for a living like so many other millions.
Society is way to lenient towards criminals.
Lock them up forever.
If there never allowed out of their cell's jails would need less guards.
Less guards. Less payroll. No more repeat offenders.
Some fine upstanding citizian in NY has just been arrested for the 100th time.
Why?

GTF

GTF

[Bernd]

Prison's don't work because they don't punish.
They hang out, Play basketball, do drugs, fight, harrass guards.
Real prison is what needed.
One to a cell.
Each cell 4 X 8
one stall shower
one cott
toilet
NO TV
NO radio
No books
No leaving their cell.
Just one horrible boring life locked down for years.
Education is not the answer.
Wayne B. Williams
Joel Steinberg
Ted Bundy
Too many lazy people not wanting to work for a living like so many other millions.
Society is way to lenient towards criminals.
Lock them up forever.
If there never allowed out of their cell's jails would need less guards.
Less guards. Less payroll. No more repeat offenders.
Some fine upstanding citizian in NY has just been arrested for the 100th time.
Why?

GTF

GTF

That's a great recipe if you want to create many more "Carl Panzrams".

[markw]

I do believe that you need to get them very young and teach them. But lock them up when society has failed them for 5 or how many years and then what.Yeah, there is no such thing as a bad person. It's all society's fault.

It's that kind of thioking that allows thugs like this to get away with as much as they do. If they had their butts whupped hard enough when they first start to step out of line then perhaps they won't get too far down that road where severe punishment is needed.

But that's right. Blame every one else except the perps. That's great way to eradicate that behavior.

[GTF]

What does Carl Panzrams have to do with this?
The reason their are so many criminals is because they know they won't be doing
much time for their crimes.
What do you do with 5 guys who kidnaped a girl.
That their turns raping her because they thought her brother might have taken
one of their gold chains?
What to do with the guys who beat, stab, shoot while selling some cigarettes?
I know what to do with them.
What would you do with them Bernd?

GTF

[KaiWinters]

Rehabilitation or change is secondary though a hoped for secondary outcome.
Prison is to punish the perp for the crime committed.

While we are at it let's take a look at their parents. Are they "trailer trash" or some alternative? Perhaps it is time to start making parents legally responsible for the actions of their f'ing brats. That is for minors of course. Those considered adults are on their own though look at the parents any way...the nut generally does not fall far from the tree.
Hit the parents of minor criminals financially...take away their car, etc.if they have no ready cash. Perhaps make some sort of counseling mandatory for the entire family with repercussions if they fail to attend.

Too bad we have no way of preventing conception until the prospective parent(s) attend some sort of training and testing/review period to see if they are capable to be a parent.
I know there are all sorts of repercussions, etc. making this a bad idea but I ran a juvenile secure treatment facility for eight years in the Boston area and if you spent any time at all in this field you would back this sort of stance.
The majority of these kids will just become adult criminals actively in a serious way or at the least they will become part of the "gray" community...those that float just below the radar of law enforcement, committing minor crimes, generally not working except long enough to either collect unemployment compensation, get "injured" and go out on Workmens Comp for as long as they can, or if they are lucky get termed "permanently disabled" in some fashion and collect Social Security Disability while living in government subsidized housing, food stamps, full medical/dental/optical coverage at no cost...oh yeah paid for by everyone reading this thread and working at a legitimate job so they can pay their taxes and support bastards like that.
Whew venting over...feeling a tiny bit better...going out for a bike ride while the weather is nice.
Caio !

[shokhead]

Prison's don't work because they don't punish.
They hang out, Play basketball, do drugs, fight, harrass guards.
Real prison is what needed.
One to a cell.
Each cell 4 X 8
one stall shower
one cott
toilet
NO TV
NO radio
No books
No leaving their cell.
Just one horrible boring life locked down for years.
Education is not the answer.
Wayne B. Williams
Joel Steinberg
Ted Bundy
Too many lazy people not wanting to work for a living like so many other millions.
Society is way to lenient towards criminals.
Lock them up forever.
If there never allowed out of their cell's jails would need less guards.
Less guards. Less payroll. No more repeat offenders.
Some fine upstanding citizian in NY has just been arrested for the 100th time.
Why?

GTF

GTF


Yes we know,chain gang and hard labor and all that.It will never happen again so prison as it is now doesnt work.
If anyone watched 30 days they say most dont want it to change as there are so many jobs that come from prisons being just how they are.

[Bernd]

While we are at it let's take a look at their parents. Are they "trailer trash" or some alternative? Perhaps it is time to start making parents legally responsible for the actions of their f'ing brats. That is for minors of course. Those considered adults are on their own though look at the parents any way...the nut generally does not fall far from the tree.
Hit the parents of minor criminals financially...take away their car, etc.if they have no ready cash. Perhaps make some sort of counseling mandatory for the entire family with repercussions if they fail to attend.


Caio !

Kai, couldn't agree with you more on that score and will add my experience.
GTF, those cases you mentioned are awful and do indeed need to be dealt with, but it shouldn't stop there.
I would like to add a succes story, as it fits in here and it coincides with our 10th wedding anniversary.
Some 15 years ago my future wife came to my then Restaurant and asked me if I would take a long term placement of a troubled young man. Never done anything like that before I nervously agreed.
The boy used to skip school and set fire to all sorts of things (garden sheds, cars, etc) and would have surely burned down a house sooner or later. The courts said that this placement would be his final chance. Hard work yes. Problems-plenty. Did he steal from me - yes. But I don't give up once started.
Anyway to cut a long story short. That boy is now a man with a family. He works as a Head Chef in Northern England and he takes placements of long term problem kids.So a cycle is established. That's what I am talking about. Trust breeds trust.
What do you think would have happened to him if put in prison?
And now, if my wife has a real hard case she can't place, she puts him or her with me and I try my hardest to show them that there is more to life than anger, fear and confusion.

Phew! I think I will take the dogs out now.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[KaiWinters]

Wow Bernd that is a great story with an even better ending.
I am happy to see someone turn his life around but unfortunately that is the exception and they are far in between.
In my eight years I personally know of maybe three that turned their lives around for the positive.

[Bernd]

You're right, far too many fall through the cracks. I think it is down to all of us to do our bit, and if we like it or not we are all members of the same species. Be that you, me, or some neglected young person taken a wrong turn.
My wife has placed 6 young people with me in the last 8 years and 5 are doing ok.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[Resident Loser]

You're right, far too many fall through the cracks. I think it is down to all of us to do our bit, and if we like it or not we are all members of the same species. Be that you, me, or some neglected young person taken a wrong turn.
My wife has placed 6 young people with me in the last 8 years and 5 are doing ok.

Peace

Bernd:16:

...there are those who continue to produce children of despair...there are those in society who know no other way and even when given the tools to turn things around, refuse to do so because doing the right thing is far too "difficult".

There is little one can do other than resort to more totalitarian measures to stem the flow or more Draconian ones after the fact...

jimHJJ(...politics ain't my forte...)

[Bernd]

...there are those who continue to produce children of despair...there are those in society who know no other way and even when given the tools to turn things around, refuse to do so because doing the right thing is far too "difficult".

There is little one can do other than resort to more totalitarian measures to stem the flow or more Draconian ones after the fact...

jimHJJ(...politics ain't my forte...)

Hi Jim,

I agree that effort is not cool any more. But before we lock young people up and throw away the key let's exhaust the other possibilities. Any living species will throw up the odd bad egg. I get it in my dogs. Carefull selection of the Sire and the Dam and yet you still get the odd bad one now and then.
I think parenting skills are disappearing, not that the old methods of beatings and harsh discipline produced great results. However we had the value of right and wrong instilled into us. That seems to have gone away too. But surely as eggs is eggs the tide can be turned. Unfortunatly not with mindless incarceration or shouts of revenge.
And Jim politics isn't my forte either.

Peace

Bernd:6:

[shokhead]

...there are those who continue to produce children of despair...there are those in society who know no other way and even when given the tools to turn things around, refuse to do so because doing the right thing is far too "difficult".

There is little one can do other than resort to more totalitarian measures to stem the flow or more Draconian ones after the fact...

jimHJJ(...politics ain't my forte...)

Difficult is the wrong word,it should be too much work.

[Resident Loser]

...the odd "bad-egg" isn't the problem...IMO there is a societal breakdown; it's the whole poultry farm that is suspect...I see young (like maybe 4-5yr. olds) out of control and parents who do nothing to stop them (and I don't mean folks on the bottom rungs of the ladder either)...SUV-type soccer moms and the b@!!-less wonders they are married to who don't have one friggin' clue...these are folks who should know better...couple that insanity with the hard-core generational "poor" baby-factories who think drugs and crime or some pie-in-the-sky avenue are viable alternatives to hard work and we have an ever-growing epidemic...

jimHJJ(...talk about a needle in a haystack...)

[Resident Loser]

Difficult is the wrong word,it should be too much work.

...it should be: "...there are those in society who know no other way and even when given the tools to turn things around, refuse to do so because doing the right thing would cause these lazy, shiftless, walking piles of excrement, to get up off their spotty @$$es and take personal responsibility for once in their p!$$poor excuses for a life..."

jimHJJ(...I hope that clarifies things a bit...)

[Bernd]

...the odd "bad-egg" isn't the problem...IMO there is a societal breakdown; it's the whole poultry farm that is suspect...I see young (like maybe 4-5yr. olds) out of control and parents who do nothing to stop them (and I don't mean folks on the bottom rungs of the ladder either)...SUV-type soccer moms and the b@!!-less wonders they are married to who don't have one friggin' clue...these are folks who should know better...couple that insanity with the hard-core generational "poor" baby-factories who think drugs and crime or some pie-in-the-sky avenue are viable alternatives to hard work and we have an ever-growing epidemic...

jimHJJ(...talk about a needle in a haystack...)

Well Jim,

I agree with the breakdown and out of control points. We have the same over here and it appears to be Government encouraged. It is indeed a real problem that affects us all and will be getting worse I am sure.
This is a very depressing thought.
Time for one or two cool ones me thinks.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[GMichael]

Once upon a time, when kids were bad in school, the school would punish them. I know teachers who had special paddles for these kids. Some of these paddles even had names, like Equalizer or Corrector, and even The Punisher. When these "bad" kids were intimately introduced to these paddles, a call would go out to their parents. When they got home, these kids would be in even more trouble. They'd get punished much more than what the school would put out.
Then, somewhere along the line, parents flipped on the system. Once their teary eyed little brats turned up the water works, the parents would threaten the school. Some parents sued. Some teachers got disciplined for disciplining the kids. Next thing you know, teachers were afraid to discipline the kids that needed it the most. The admin sides with the parents instead of the teachers. So now instead of the one or two "bad" kids per class, you have over half of them doing as they please knowing that nothing can be done to them. Could these kids be turned around? Sure, but someone has to care about them enough to punish them when they are bad. Not just give in because it's hard or they don't want to see their kid cry. The system starts at home. The schools can only do so much without support from the parents.

Bernd, great job taking in those kids and giving them another chance. The world's kids needs more people like you to help out.

[Resident Loser]

...parochial school for twelve years (which accounts for a lot)...got whacked on the knuckes once, had a chalkboard eraser sent my way once and went to the principal's office once (only resulted in a weeks detention, causing me to miss some extra-curricular activities, but I got the message)...you wouldn't dare tell your parents...you took it and sucked it up...besides they'd agree you deserved it and in my cases I did...nothing major, just class-clown-cr@p...

jimHJJ(...part of the learning experience...)

[Bernd]

My grandfather (mothers father) was the headmaster at our local village school. Year one to six. I was the last lot he taught. German and Maths. Yep, keys flew across the room and a cane did his work. Not in a sadistic manner, but in a meassured and needed way.
I always remember how much importance he did place on fairness, silence and education. And how much he rewarded effort and honesty. If you told the truth he understood, but boy if you didn't.....
What has happened to the School system?

Peace

Bernd:16:

[shokhead]

What has happened to the school system,parents. System works for those who use it.

[ForeverAutumn]

Once upon a time, when kids were bad in school, the school would punish them. I know teachers who had special paddles for these kids. Some of these paddles even had names, like Equalizer or Corrector, and even The Punisher. When these "bad" kids were intimately introduced to these paddles, a call would go out to their parents. When they got home, these kids would be in even more trouble. They'd get punished much more than what the school would put out.
Then, somewhere along the line, parents flipped on the system. Once their teary eyed little brats turned up the water works, the parents would threaten the school. Some parents sued. Some teachers got disciplined for disciplining the kids. Next thing you know, teachers were afraid to discipline the kids that needed it the most. The admin sides with the parents instead of the teachers. So now instead of the one or two "bad" kids per class, you have over half of them doing as they please knowing that nothing can be done to them. Could these kids be turned around? Sure, but someone has to care about them enough to punish them when they are bad. Not just give in because it's hard or they don't want to see their kid cry. The system starts at home. The schools can only do so much without support from the parents.


I don't know about how things are in other countries, but in Canada it's even worse than that. We had a Federal Act called The Young Offenders Act. The basics of the YOA is that if you are arrested for a crime and you are under the age of 18, you cannot receive a sentence that goes beyond your age 18. Neither your name nor face can be made public. Any criminal record that you earn is erased when you turn 18 and you start over with a clean slate.

The purpose of the YOA was to allow for children to make stupid mistakes and not have to pay for them for life. The result is the creation of a system where young offenders know that they can do whatever they want and receive minimal punishment. We have murderers and rapists living in our neighbourhoods and we aren't allowed to know who they are because the YOA protects these young criminals instead of protecting their victims and potential victims.

This Act was replaced in 2003 by The Youth Criminal Justice Act. The new YCJA was supposed to clear up some the gray areas in the YOA. To date, I haven't noticed any improvement in how young offenders are handled or sentenced. Certainly, there appears to be nothing in the Act to act as a deterent to keep young people from committing crimes. Those that do commit crimes continue to be protected by the new Act.

[GMichael]

I don't know about how things are in other countries, but in Canada it's even worse than that. We had a Federal Act called The Young Offenders Act. The basics of the YOA is that if you are arrested for a crime and you are under the age of 18, you cannot receive a sentence that goes beyond your age 18. Neither your name nor face can be made public. Any criminal record that you earn is erased when you turn 18 and you start over with a clean slate.

The purpose of the YOA was to allow for children to make stupid mistakes and not have to pay for them for life. The result is the creation of a system where young offenders know that they can do whatever they want and receive minimal punishment. We have murderers and rapists living in our neighbourhoods and we aren't allowed to know who they are because the YOA protects these young criminals instead of protecting their victims and potential victims.

This Act was replaced in 2003 by The Youth Criminal Justice Act. The new YCJA was supposed to clear up some the gray areas in the YOA. To date, I haven't noticed any improvement in how young offenders are handled or sentenced. Certainly, there appears to be nothing in the Act to act as a deterent to keep young people from committing crimes. Those that do commit crimes continue to be protected by the new Act.

Hopefully the system will start to get better. But there are so many different views that there is no way to make everyone happy.
One of the times I was in the Philippines, I invited my wife's family out for a nice dinner at a 5 star restaurant. It would be a nice treat for them as they had never even been to a McDonalds. Well, our idea of family is different than theirs. 42 people ended up at this dinner. Over 30 of them were children under the age of 13. My second thought was what a free-for-all this many kids would create in this fine establishment. To my surprise, not one loud voice was heard. No running, no fighting, none of them even got out of their chairs. It was amazing. Turns out, that if a kid was to have acted up, the parents would have whacked them on the side of the head the way my Italian mom used to do to us when we were kids.

But that same week there was this guy on their TV who had been tortured to get a confession that he had killed his wife. Turned out that he didn't do it. The real killer was found. In the mean time this guy had burn marks down his arms from where he was being subjected to high voltage by the police.

Where do we draw that fine line?

[FLZapped]

Hi Jim,

I agree that the actions of these boys are despicable and I don't have the answers.:confused: But my main point is that prison doesn't seem to be working as we have to build more and more and there are record numbers of repeat offenders. So I was making the point that it probably isn't going to "Rehabilitate" or "change" these young men. I totally agree that we need to be protected and that these actions should not go unpunished - my question is - Is prison the right thing or - is it the only thing we have available to use - have we explored all the alternatives? The answer is probably to start a lot younger with amending this behaviour and making young people accountable. The problem is western society wide (it doesn't seem so prevalent in other cultures). I have first hand experience as my wife works in this field and she has really good examples of young people being turned around through intensive support, achievement and being placed in a flexible programme of work, study and social "development". We have to remember that many (not all), young people that display this behaviour have never been taught that it is socially unacceptable to behave in this way, they have no understanding of social responsiblities and no normal Family values. I understand the need of some people to get revenge but we have to look at the bigger picture and try to change the tide of "acceptable" violence and anti-social behaviour. That's all I was trying to say - I wasn't excusing what they had done - and I don't pretend to have the answers either!!

Peace

Bernd:16:


Sadly, they are probably already beyond redemption. They should have known better (and probably did) at their age than to engage in such activity.

Jail was always meant to be punitive. In this case, maybe not punitive enough. Since they liked playing with rocks so much, they should probably be making them one at a time with a tack hammer for the next 5 years, then they might decide they don't want to find themselves in that place again.

Of course, we could just go straight to the firing squad rather than wait for them to actually murder someone after x number of times through the system.....


-Bruce

[markw]

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