minimal table

[beck]

i need a minimal turntable, not over $700...any suggestions? thanks beck

[JoeE SP9]

Music Hall MMF-5 $549 at www.needledoctor.com (http://www.needledoctor.com)
This is a very nice reasonably priced TT. It includes everything so you can play LP's right out of the box. Of course this presumes your receiver has a phono input. If not get the Music Hall Phono Pack $120 from the same place.:cool:

[beck]

thank you sir...

[JohnMichael]

Music Hall MMF-5 $549 at www.needledoctor.com (http://www.needledoctor.com)
This is a very nice reasonably priced TT. It includes everything so you can play LP's right out of the box. Of course this presumes your receiver has a phono input. If not get the Music Hall Phono Pack $120 from the same place.:cool:


Good suggestion that I will second.

[JoeE SP9]

Two of my audio buddies have Music Hall TT's. They and I are favorably impressed with them.:cool:

[emorphien]

I'm really happy with my Rega P2 which I got for $450 new with the glass platter. It's a much simpler and more minimalist table than the MMF-5 (which seems pretty nice but I haven't heard one).

Mine didn't come with a cartridge, that cost me another $130.

[dean_martin]

Check out the Pro-Jects while you're looking at the Music Halls at needledoctor.com. The new RM-5 is right at your budget and looks interesting with its carbon fibre tonearm and minimalist plinth. I've had one of the older Pro-Jects for several years and have been pleased. The Rega P3 may still be $695 too. I don't think the P2 is still in production, but if you can find one still in stock somewhere, especially one with the glass platter, you might get a good deal.

[emorphien]

I don't think the P2 is still in production, but if you can find one still in stock somewhere, especially one with the glass platter, you might get a good deal.
Ooh crap thanks! I meant to mention that. The P2 is over and done with as far as production (although there's plenty of support). I had to hunt around and call this weird place in way up in north-eastern NY to get mine.

[dean_martin]

Ooh crap thanks! I meant to mention that. The P2 is over and done with as far as production (although there's plenty of support). I had to hunt around and call this weird place in way up in north-eastern NY to get mine.

Congrats for snaggin' one of those. I followed the buzz about the P2 being discontinued. I wish I had had the extra money at the time to get one of those last ones with the glass platter. (I've learned though that something else will always be there to take my equipment money when I have it.)

[emorphien]

Fortunately for me, my tax return came just in time this year to buy the table before they were all gone!

[basite]

you can also check needledoctor for technics, with $700 you can buy any technics tt
you can also buy a pro-ject rm-5 tt, coming at $649 at needledoctor

[musicoverall]

Ooh crap thanks! I meant to mention that. The P2 is over and done with as far as production (although there's plenty of support). I had to hunt around and call this weird place in way up in north-eastern NY to get mine.

www.cadencebuilding.com? They're actually in northwestern NY - just north of Syracuse. Vladimir is a great guy - part audiophile, part recording engineer. Really knows his stuff. I think he's still got some P2's left. Shipping is free, too!

My second turntable, now in storage, is an old Technics SL-QD22. Got it for $25 on Ebay. The only thing that keeps it from being by far the best sub-$600 table I ever heard is the fact that it only accepts p-mount cartridges, which limits how far you can take it. The thing is dead quiet, something I wasn't sure a direct drive could do. Great arm. Really a steal. I sold my old Rega P3 when this came along.

Still, for the original poster, I'd recommend the P2. Enjoy!

[basite]

The thing is dead quiet, something I wasn't sure a direct drive could do. Great arm. Really a steal. I sold my old Rega P3 when this came along.

Still, for the original poster, I'd recommend the P2. Enjoy!

dunno, my luxman pd-282 is also extremely quiet, in fact, you don't hear it spin.

[emorphien]

www.cadencebuilding.com? They're actually in northwestern NY - just north of Syracuse. Vladimir is a great guy - part audiophile, part recording engineer. Really knows his stuff. I think he's still got some P2's left. Shipping is free, too!

My second turntable, now in storage, is an old Technics SL-QD22. Got it for $25 on Ebay. The only thing that keeps it from being by far the best sub-$600 table I ever heard is the fact that it only accepts p-mount cartridges, which limits how far you can take it. The thing is dead quiet, something I wasn't sure a direct drive could do. Great arm. Really a steal. I sold my old Rega P3 when this came along.

Still, for the original poster, I'd recommend the P2. Enjoy!Are they in the Syracuse area? I thought they were further north east (a lot further).

That's where I got it, and given the complete lack of advertising and mostly word of mouth, they probably do have some left. $450 with the glass platter.

[JoeE SP9]

dunno, my luxman pd-282 is also extremely quiet, in fact, you don't hear it spin.

You are not supposed to hear it spin.:ihih:

[emorphien]

You are not supposed to hear it spin.:ihih:
pssh I want to hear a loud whirr from mine

[musicoverall]

Are they in the Syracuse area? I thought they were further north east (a lot further).

That's where I got it, and given the complete lack of advertising and mostly word of mouth, they probably do have some left. $450 with the glass platter.

North of Syracuse - up by Watertown, close to the Canadian border. Not sure how they ended up there. But in the world of jazz, they are quite well known. Cadence magazine has a fairly large following. They also make some of the best sounding CD's I've ever heard, on the Creative Improvised Music Projects (CIMP) label. It's likely that they sell most of their audio gear to subscribers. The mag has been around for about 35 years or so.

[musicoverall]

dunno, my luxman pd-282 is also extremely quiet, in fact, you don't hear it spin.

My Technics is the one and only direct drive that I have any experience with at all but the audiophile scuttlebutt for years has been that the motor isn't decoupled from the table the way a belt drive is and therefore excessive noise is introduced. For all I know, it's a mythical problem, although it appears scientifically sound. But apparently you have no problems, as I do not.

[JoeE SP9]

My Technics is the one and only direct drive that I have any experience with at all but the audiophile scuttlebutt for years has been that the motor isn't decoupled from the table the way a belt drive is and therefore excessive noise is introduced. For all I know, it's a mythical problem, although it appears scientifically sound. But apparently you have no problems, as I do not.

There has to be a reason why all really good TT's are belt drive. When I bought my VPI I was using a Technics SP10. The VPI was so much better sounding even my next door neighbor heard the difference and he was not an audiophile. :ihih:

[emorphien]

North of Syracuse - up by Watertown, close to the Canadian border. Not sure how they ended up there. But in the world of jazz, they are quite well known. Cadence magazine has a fairly large following. They also make some of the best sounding CD's I've ever heard, on the Creative Improvised Music Projects (CIMP) label. It's likely that they sell most of their audio gear to subscribers. The mag has been around for about 35 years or so.
Interesting, I'll have to check out their mag, I've never seen it!

And watertown isn't close to Syracuse, hence my initial description of their location. I thought I recalled them being more in the Watertown area, which is pretty much up in the NE corner of the state.

[musicoverall]

There has to be a reason why all really good TT's are belt drive. When I bought my VPI I was using a Technics SP10. The VPI was so much better sounding even my next door neighbor heard the difference and he was not an audiophile. :ihih:

So many of them can hear better than I! Or at least, better than a naysayer! LOL!

[musicoverall]

Interesting, I'll have to check out their mag, I've never seen it!

And watertown isn't close to Syracuse, hence my initial description of their location. I thought I recalled them being more in the Watertown area, which is pretty much up in the NE corner of the state.

Anything under 200 miles away is CLOSE out here in the boonies! :D But being an ex-New Yorker, I still consider anything west of NYC as West. But being away for quite awhile, at least I've discovered that the country doesn't just consist of NYC, Chicago, Texas and California! :)

Oh, and Cadence Magazine will show you what a magazine looks like that doesn't sell advertising. It's pretty minimalist. The reviews are short, but good and there are some good columns. The interviews tend to be a little dated, though. Still worth a look.

[emorphien]

Haha no not exactly in the boonies. I'll probably get one issue of it just to see what is in it.

[JoeE SP9]

So many of them can hear better than I! Or at least, better than a naysayer! LOL!

I should have held onto that SP10. I could have sold it to one of those guys at audiokarma. They worship that old Japanese gear.:ihih:

[basite]

There has to be a reason why all really good TT's are belt drive. When I bought my VPI I was using a Technics SP10. The VPI was so much better sounding even my next door neighbor heard the difference and he was not an audiophile. :ihih:


my opinion (i'm not a tt expert, i do know something about them, but not as much as alot of you guys) belt drive has less problems of sound because the motor isn't attached to the wheel, and therefore the noise of the motor is less 'noticed' by the needle, and plays really clean, with a direct drive, the motor is attached to the wheel, and by that, the noise of the motor is picked up by the needle and played back, altough, when you have a really good direct drive tt (like one of the legendary technics tt's or like my luxman (ok it isn't THE vintage tt, but it's really good)) you won't notice the difference between them and a mid-range belt drive tt.

[E-Stat]

There has to be a reason why all really good TT's are belt drive. When I bought my VPI I was using a Technics SP10. The VPI was so much better sounding even my next door neighbor heard the difference and he was not an audiophile. :ihih:
I concur that the better belt drive tables bettered my Technics SL-110 long ago. There are two new tables by EAR and Clearaudio that take a different approach. With the EAR, it uses a direct drive motor to drive the subplatter which drives the main platter by... magnetic attraction! Look ma no hands, er belts or nuthin' touching that puppy! I heard one at Seacliff a couple of months back.

Scroll down the page to see a number of pics of both table and designer, Tim de Paravincini.

Magnetic EAR table (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue17/ces05dr2.htm)

rw

[jrhymeammo]

Thanx E-Stat, Cyberlight cables look very interesting and unique.

[basite]

you can also get a Clearaudio bluemotion http://www.clearaudio.de/ (-->products-->bluemotion) or a Clearaudio Emotion (-->products-->emotion)
they are both belt drive and look very good.

[jrhymeammo]

you can also get a Clearaudio bluemotion http://www.clearaudio.de/ (-->products-->bluemotion) or a Clearaudio Emotion (-->products-->emotion)
they are both belt drive and look very good.

I've considered that table also but at it's not under $700 new. Specs wise, probably the best TT package under $1500.

[basite]

dunno, i think is saw it for €650 somewhere, that's like $700, maybe $750

[beck]

thanks all, i called vladimir (www.cadencebuilding.com) and boy does he know his stuff---ordered a P2 + goldring cart, then ordered an NAD C272--he's real generous with his time on the phone, talks on the customer's level (mine's pretty low) without condescension....thanks for the tip!

[musicoverall]

thanks all, i called vladimir (www.cadencebuilding.com) and boy does he know his stuff---ordered a P2 + goldring cart, then ordered an NAD C272--he's real generous with his time on the phone, talks on the customer's level (mine's pretty low) without condescension....thanks for the tip!

Yes, Vladimir is one of the most knowledgable audio dealers I've ever met. Being a recording engineer, he really knows sound. The CD's he engineers sound incredible but I wouldn't recommend them unless you have a pretty good background in "free jazz". But he knows his beans. Which Goldring did you get, the 1012? I'm pretty sure that's what he recommends for the P2 and it's a great fit. Nice thing about those arms is that you can someday (if you want) put a pretty expensive cartridge on it and it won't be a waste. I once had a P3 that had a $1000 Benz woodbodied cartridge on it and the thing sounded awesome!

Enjoy your table and new amp!

[beck]

Yes, Vladimir is one of the most knowledgable audio dealers I've ever met. Being a recording engineer, he really knows sound. The CD's he engineers sound incredible but I wouldn't recommend them unless you have a pretty good background in "free jazz". But he knows his beans. Which Goldring did you get, the 1012? I'm pretty sure that's what he recommends for the P2 and it's a great fit. Nice thing about those arms is that you can someday (if you want) put a pretty expensive cartridge on it and it won't be a waste. I once had a P3 that had a $1000 Benz woodbodied cartridge on it and the thing sounded awesome!

Enjoy your table and new amp!

yep, the goldring 1012--do you have any thoughts on a cd player?---i'm thinking about NAD 542, rotel 1072, rega apollo, arcam 73T.....any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks beck

[musicoverall]

yep, the goldring 1012--do you have any thoughts on a cd player?---i'm thinking about NAD 542, rotel 1072, rega apollo, arcam 73T.....any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks beck

I always thought the Goldrings and Regas have a nice synergy to them. Was never much impressed with the Rega cartridges.

CDP's... personally I've had more luck with Rotel than with NAD. The Arcam is a very nice player but I'm not at all familiar with the Rega Apollo. Is that above or below the Planet in price? I absolutely did not like the Planet but their upscale Jupiter was a good one. Some people like the Planet. Go figure. Point being, try 'em all if you get the chance and pick out the one you like best. I don't think you'd go far afield with any of them. You'd probably get a good price on the NAD from Vladimir, though, so that might be a nice incentive.

[beck]

the rega apollo is $995 and absolute sound asks the question, best bargain ever? what i'm hearing on the forums is.....it has iffy build quality, takes 200-400 hours to burn in, takes a half hour to warm up, and beats anything $500 above or below it....

what are your thoughts on the rotel vs the NAD? was it a sound quality vs reliability issue? the arcam is supposed to be detailed but laid back.....

[beck]

also i think the rega apollo sound is a personal taste thing....how do you audition stuff when there's no dealer in our area?

[musicoverall]

the rega apollo is $995 and absolute sound asks the question, best bargain ever? what i'm hearing on the forums is.....it has iffy build quality, takes 200-400 hours to burn in, takes a half hour to warm up, and beats anything $500 above or below it....

what are your thoughts on the rotel vs the NAD? was it a sound quality vs reliability issue? the arcam is supposed to be detailed but laid back.....

First of all, I don't hear night and day differences between CD players. What I hear as significant might not be to someone else. But bear in mind that the differences I DO hear as fairly subtle.

When I looked at NAD vs Rotel which was some years back, the NAD sounded soft, probably on purpose to tame those "digital nasties". The Rotel was leaner and more precise, which meant overly bright on bright recordings. I felt it was more accurately portraying what was on the recording, although it did make a few recordings very hard to listen to whereas the NAD took some of the thrill out of other recordings by glossing over some detail - tradeoffs, y' know! What did it for me is the Rotel threw a wider soundstage.

I would agree that the Arcam is more laid back but instead of a softening of the detail and the HF's as the NAD did, it just set you back a dozen rows or so behind the Rotel. It's more like the sound is more recessed rather than softer, if that makes any sense.

I've not auditioned the NAD or the Rotel recently but again, I don't think you'd go far wrong with any of them. As for an audition, you can still do so in your own home. Find a dealer that will give you a 30 day money back guarantee, buy the unit and spend some time with it. If you don't like it, return it. Perhaps you can find two dealers and buy both in order to A/B them. Good luck! Let us know what you decide on.

[beck]

thank you sir for the in depth answer....i will let you know how it shakes out!

[emorphien]

First of all, I don't hear night and day differences between CD players. What I hear as significant might not be to someone else. But bear in mind that the differences I DO hear as fairly subtle.

When I looked at NAD vs Rotel which was some years back, the NAD sounded soft, probably on purpose to tame those "digital nasties". The Rotel was leaner and more precise, which meant overly bright on bright recordings. I felt it was more accurately portraying what was on the recording, although it did make a few recordings very hard to listen to whereas the NAD took some of the thrill out of other recordings by glossing over some detail - tradeoffs, y' know! What did it for me is the Rotel threw a wider soundstage.

I would agree that the Arcam is more laid back but instead of a softening of the detail and the HF's as the NAD did, it just set you back a dozen rows or so behind the Rotel. It's more like the sound is more recessed rather than softer, if that makes any sense.

I've not auditioned the NAD or the Rotel recently but again, I don't think you'd go far wrong with any of them. As for an audition, you can still do so in your own home. Find a dealer that will give you a 30 day money back guarantee, buy the unit and spend some time with it. If you don't like it, return it. Perhaps you can find two dealers and buy both in order to A/B them. Good luck! Let us know what you decide on.Which NAD did you try? I've listened to the C521BEE and C542 (and own the 542)

[musicoverall]

Which NAD did you try? I've listened to the C521BEE and C542 (and own the 542)

It was a precursor to the C542 but I don't recall - it may have been the C541 (did they make such a model?) and I'm told the C542 solved the shortcomings of its earlier iteration. Not surprising. I'll never forget my experience with an Acurus preamp years ago. What a horrible sounding unit! A year later they came out with a new model that completely cured what ailed it's predesessor. Sometimes new models are the manufacturers way of tempting us to upgrade for no reason but sometimes they really create something better. Hit or miss.

Enjoy your C542 - I'm told it's quite good but I've never had the pleasure.

[emorphien]

It was a precursor to the C542 but I don't recall - it may have been the C541 (did they make such a model?) and I'm told the C542 solved the shortcomings of its earlier iteration. Not surprising. I'll never forget my experience with an Acurus preamp years ago. What a horrible sounding unit! A year later they came out with a new model that completely cured what ailed it's predesessor. Sometimes new models are the manufacturers way of tempting us to upgrade for no reason but sometimes they really create something better. Hit or miss.

Enjoy your C542 - I'm told it's quite good but I've never had the pleasure.
They did make a 541, which I never heard. I have heard it's a good model, but as you said the 542 makes some considerable improvements over it in many areas.

I'm very very happy with the C542.