Farewell to Tube TVs.

[Smokey]

Last week NyTimes magazine had an interesting article on Tube TV, and how it is heading for extinction much faster than anyone expected. This an edited version of the article:

Picture Tubes Are Fading Into the Past

This year, the number of TV models in the United States that use glass cathode-ray tubes to produce an image has been reduced sharply.

http://graphics10.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/07/business/0807-biz-TUBE.gif

“After the holidays, the days of picture-tube TV’s are gone,” said Geoff Shavey, the TV buyer for Costco. “One year from now, we will not sell picture-tube TV’s.” Costco, a discount warehouse chain, , has already cut its picture-tube offerings to three models this year, from 10 in 2005.

Instead, Costco and other retailers are selling growing numbers of wide-screen and liquid-crystal display TV’s, which are more expensive than traditional TV’s. “The demand for picture-tube TV’s is far off from what it was one year ago”, he added

Consumer electronics companies also want out of the tube TV business, in part because profit margins have become so thin. The end of picture-tube TV’s is accelerating faster than a lot of us expected,” said Randy Waynick, a senior vice president for Sony, which offered 10 tube models two years ago, will pare that number to two next year. “Picture-tube TV sales reductions were far greater than forecast,” Mr. Waynick said.

Panasonic is getting out of the picture-tube business altogether and Toshiba has cut its picture-tube models to 13 — from 35 last year — .

New technologies seldom replace their predecessors entirely, and picture-tube TV’s will still be available for those who prefer them. But they will increasingly be available only discount stores, and will be sold under house brand names and by less prominent manufacturers like Funai, which owns the Symphonic, Sylvania and Emerson brands.

“We think there is a continual business for us in C.R.T. TV’s,” said Greg Bosler, executive vice president of the TTE Corporation, which owns the RCA brand. Even so, the company expects to double its flat-panel offerings next year. It will reduce its tube models to about 15 in 2007, from 26 this year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/technology/07tube.html

[nightflier]

Well, the statistics are for the purchase of new tv's. This does not account for all those crt tv's that will now last another 10+ years. It will take a while for these to dissapear completely.

Also, considering that most flat screens are not yet standardizing on specific standards such as 720 vs. 1080, HDMI vs. DVI, Plasma vs. LCD (not to mention all kinds of different screen sizes that the picture has to be stretched to fit in), it will take a while for people to feel comfortable with the new flat screens. Just imagine how irritated all those new Plasma owners will be when they figure out that their new HD & Blu-Ray players can go up to 1080p?

I purchased a CRT four years ago because flats screens were too expensive then. I still think they are, but most importantly my TV can easily do 1080i, so it's probably going to be fine for another 5-10 years.

[Smokey]

Good point regarding compatibility of TV with ever changing technology as it will be 1 or 2 steps ahead of consumer goods.

But the scariest part about the article was that CRT TV will only available from sub-par TV manufactures such as RCA or Funai. So anybody interested in tube TV for it picture quality and price, will have not have any quality choices.

Samsung is trying to address this issue by closing that gap between flat and bulky tube TV with their Slim line TVs, but seem to have quality control issue (such as geometry) with that line.

[superpanavision70mm]

Of course people are buying less tube-tv's...it's because they already own them!

[Woochifer]

Gosh Smoke, I guess your $200 TV options are dwindling! :D

It's interesting how that chart separates the categories into CRT, Projection and flat-panel, because if you account for the number of projection TVs that still use CRTs, the CRT market share is a lot bigger than indicated on that chart.

http://www.emsnow.com/cnt/files/isuppli7.6.jpg

The CRT phaseout has been long forecast -- it's only a matter of when. It's too bad because the picture quality on a direct view CRT HDTV is still superior to the other technologies out there. If you've ever seen a CRT HDTV, the picture quality can be absolutely stunning. Problem is that the sets can weigh close to 200 lbs. and they're limited to 34" nowadays. With HD, people want the big picture and they don't want a huge bulky unit up front. The direct view CRT no longer fits that profile.

For now, the other primary cost advantage with CRT is price, but with the brand name players exiting the market in a hurry, the bottomfeeders will be the only options left in a short time.

[bobsticks]

[QUOTE=Woochifer] If you've ever seen a CRT HDTV, the picture quality can be absolutely stunning. Problem is that the sets can weigh close to 200 lbs. and they're limited to 34" nowadays. With HD, people want the big picture and they don't want a huge bulky unit up front. The direct view CRT no longer fits that profile.QUOTE]

Truer words never spoken, Wooch. I remember seeing a Panny 32 CRT hooked up to a hi-def satellite feed and it was breathtaking. Thing was as deep as it was wide...

[Mr Peabody]

I wish Sony would keep making their widescreen tube TV's. I have one in my living room and it has an awesome picture. Second thought, i had to bring that thing in by myself and ended up losing a toe nail doing it. My Toshiba 62" DLP weighs all of some where between 80 and 90 lbs. If weight is any real consideration, I wonder what this means for the old school rear projectors? I'd have to think those things would have to be on the way out. My old Pioneer 50" weighed around 200 lbs.

I hope for the average family if tubes are on the way out that the micro displays come down in price even more.

[paul_pci]

With the demise of the CRTs we're going from $200 tvs to $2000 tvs, and that's still something that I can't get my head around.

[westcott]

Gosh Smoke, I guess your $200 TV options are dwindling! :D

It's interesting how that chart separates the categories into CRT, Projection and flat-panel, because if you account for the number of projection TVs that still use CRTs, the CRT market share is a lot bigger than indicated on that chart.

http://www.emsnow.com/cnt/files/isuppli7.6.jpg

The CRT phaseout has been long forecast -- it's only a matter of when. It's too bad because the picture quality on a direct view CRT HDTV is still superior to the other technologies out there. If you've ever seen a CRT HDTV, the picture quality can be absolutely stunning. Problem is that the sets can weigh close to 200 lbs. and they're limited to 34" nowadays. With HD, people want the big picture and they don't want a huge bulky unit up front. The direct view CRT no longer fits that profile.

For now, the other primary cost advantage with CRT is price, but with the brand name players exiting the market in a hurry, the bottomfeeders will be the only options left in a short time.

Interest point you bring up. I have been considering a 34" CRT HD TV because it does provide a great picture without worrying about lamp hours, off axis viewing angles, and lacking contrast and brightness. And this size still lends itself to standard def viewing without blowing an already marginal signal beyond its usefulness.

The problem is that the wife wants a flat panel. And I guess that is part of the reason flat panels are so popular as you mentioned. Some just do not want a 200lb box in their family room. My wife included, no matter how much more sense it makes. I have discovered that alot of my friends have bought flat panels for their computers and could care less about scan rates, contrast, brightness or color accuracy. They just wanted a cool flat panel that gives them more desk space.

[sinbin]

My 36" JVC "D" series TV is fried - and JVC no longer makes the boards to repair it. I loved the picture quality, found it far superior to my various relatives' and neighbours plasma, rear projection, and LCD sets.
I paid around $1500.00 CAD for it in 1999, and I had the extended warranty on it through Sears. They haven't yet made me an offer re replacing it or giving me a credit. What do you think would be a comparable model, either CRT, LCD or Plasma, to replace it??

[Woochifer]

Interest point you bring up. I have been considering a 34" CRT HD TV because it does provide a great picture without worrying about lamp hours, off axis viewing angles, and lacking contrast and brightness. And this size still lends itself to standard def viewing without blowing an already marginal signal beyond its usefulness.

The problem is that the wife wants a flat panel. And I guess that is part of the reason flat panels are so popular as you mentioned. Some just do not want a 200lb box in their family room. My wife included, no matter how much more sense it makes. I have discovered that alot of my friends have bought flat panels for their computers and could care less about scan rates, contrast, brightness or color accuracy. They just wanted a cool flat panel that gives them more desk space.

Good point on standard def. A big weakness with these LCD and plasma flat panels is in how they handle 4x3 standard def programs. CRTs are better adept at handling a wide range of resolutions and aspect ratios. With computer monitors, CRTs can look equally good at different resolutions, whereas an LCD panel will only look good in its native mode.

If you're looking in that 32"-36" range, a CRT HDTV makes a lot of sense IF you don't mind the bulk. And that seems to be the sticking point with a lot of people -- the wives in particular. When I went to Magnolia Audio Video last year with my wife to buy an audio rack, she immediately went over to the flat panel TVs. Those seem to be the one area of home theater that draws the women. My wife could care less about the surround audio or the video resolution, but she loves the idea of wall-mounting the TV. Of course, the other important point about the move away from direct view CRTs is simply size. People want bigger TVs, and the biggest widescreen CRT currently available is 34".

I went to a LCD panel at work because it was recommended for me during a worker's comp inspection. Aside from the desk space it freed up (and allow for me to view the monitor straight in rather than at an angle), everything else on the video side was a step back when I went to the LCD panel.

[Smokey]

Gosh Smoke, I guess your $200 TV options are dwindling! :D

That is so sad. They took all the fun out of shopping for bargain TVs. I wonder when will price of Flat TV will come down to CRT TV level. As you know, I will wait :D

Your chart indicate sales world wide instead of USA. I imagine sale of tube TV world wide
(especially in third world countries) will still be strong long after the curtain has fallen on Tube TVs in USA.


With the demise of the CRTs we're going from $200 tvs to $2000 tvs, and that's still something that I can't get my head around.

Don’t feel as you are not the only one. Pretty soon one have to settle for sub quality TVs from bottom feeders if don’t want to spend too much, or lay out big cash for flat screen. There won’t be nothing in between price wise to fill the gap.

[ericl]

i love my Sony KV-30HS420 30". I would love to upgrade it to the 34" XBR. The good thing about this is, these sets will become bargains on the used market. Here in the bay area, there are tons of these CRT HDTVs going for great prices. Maybe i'll upgrade to the 34"xbr at some point, i've seen them used for much less than i paid for my new 30". I don't like the idea of spending 2-3k for a tv (can't afford it either!).

[Geoffcin]

i love my Sony KV-30HS420 30". I would love to upgrade it to the 34" XBR. The good thing about this is, these sets will become bargains on the used market. Here in the bay area, there are tons of these CRT HDTVs going for great prices. Maybe i'll upgrade to the 34"xbr at some point, i've seen them used for much less than i paid for my new 30". I don't like the idea of spending 2-3k for a tv (can't afford it either!).

Mine is a 36" Panasonic Tau, and it does 1080i, 720p, and 480p DVD as good as any plasma I"ve seen (just not a big). Like wooch said, fixed pixal screens look great in thier native resolution, but as soon as you get away from that they loose detail bigtime. It's easy to see this on my 24" LCD monitor that is native 1080p. I've got a pretty powerful video card, and games at 1080p rez are sick looking, but put on a 480p DVD and you get to see all the grain and DVD artifacts up close an personal.

[swicken]

Tubes are great and all, but are no longer practical.
As resolutions and sizes increase, a better technology which is suited to such applications is needed.

PDP and LCD Technologies are becoming better and better, and are approaching the quality that a high end tube could produce (in many cases I cannot distinguish a difference, but I am by no means a true critic)
I do however know that the new technologies coming will make tubes a complete thing of the past, such as SED (maybe, if it lives up to the claims) and OLED (definately, purely awesome technology, just need to work out the bugs)

People do need to stop hanging on to tubes and start accepting their inevitable demise as a display technology.
And on a side note people need to stop telling customers that plasma is evil, so I can stop having to correct customers who come in raving about how their image is going to 'burn in' if they have it on there for more then 15 minutes.

And to geoffcin, running a DVD on a computer screen running 1920x1080 is going to push the DVD up to fit that resolution (as the monitor is still running in that resolution)
What you're seeing is the flaws in the DVD. Unless of course you're changing the computers resolution to 640x480, which would be silly. But yeah theres a little chip on your video card for DVD processing that will scale your DVD based on the current resolution of your screen.
Which is why if you're running dual monitors if you try to pull the DVD player over to the other monitor, it'll show up as a black box instead of a picture, because the scaler is basing it off the primary monitor....
But that being said, yes PDP and LCD don't look pretty if they're not in their native resolution, but that's why the TVs come with scalers (computer monitors dont, but you can change the output to match the monitors native resolution).

LET THE TUBE DIE IN PEACE

[Smokey]

People do need to stop hanging on to tubes and start accepting their inevitable demise as a display technology.

I don't think we have any other choices :D

I really think most people are not afraid of letting Tube go in the way of history bin. What bother them (including yours truly) might be the fact that price vs performance of tube is hard to achieve with flat panel TVs.

For example, Sony 34 inch XBR is arguably the best Tube TV on the market which can be had for $1000. It will be hard to find flat panel TV at the same price range that can deliver the same performance....at least not yet :)

[swicken]

I don't think we have any other choices :D

I really think most people are not afraid of letting Tube go in the way of history bin. What bother them (including yours truly) might be the fact that price vs performance of tube is hard to achieve with flat panel TVs.

For example, Sony 34 inch XBR is arguably the best Tube TV on the market which can be had for $1000. It will be hard to find flat panel TV at the same price range that can deliver the same performance....at least not yet :)


Tis true, but look at the last 3 years, the huge price drops for flat panel technologies.
Give it another 3 years and they'll be in the same range as the 34" XBR.

[nightflier]

Tis true, but look at the last 3 years, the huge price drops for flat panel technologies. Give it another 3 years and they'll be in the same range as the 34" XBR.

Well, let's see, in three years the price of gas will likely reach $5 a gallon according to the LA times. This is just one economic factor among to many (inflation rates, median incomes, the trade deficit, paying for the war, etc.) that will make this scenario unlikely. Just think how much more expensive it will be to ship that 60" plasma from Korea if gas costs that much more. I doubt we'll see the kinds of price drops that we saw with DVD players a decade ago or color TVs before that.

This is all just speculation, of course, but if so, go ahead and flame me in three years.

[swicken]

Well, let's see, in three years the price of gas will likely reach $5 a gallon according to the LA times. This is just one economic factor among to many (inflation rates, median incomes, the trade deficit, paying for the war, etc.) that will make this scenario unlikely. Just think how much more expensive it will be to ship that 60" plasma from Korea if gas costs that much more. I doubt we'll see the kinds of price drops that we saw with DVD players a decade ago or color TVs before that.

This is all just speculation, of course, but if so, go ahead and flame me in three years.


If oil costs are that greatly affecting TV prices in 3 years, I'm going to personally kick ******* **** right in the teeth, along with all his oil lovin buddies.

I don't think it will cause mass shipments to have that huge of a difference on a per unit basis.

[Geoffcin]

If oil costs are that greatly affecting TV prices in 3 years, I'm going to personally kick ******* **** right in the teeth, along with all his oil lovin buddies.

I don't think it will cause mass shipments to have that huge of a difference on a per unit basis.

What you just posted was a felony. You can't even joke like that.

[swicken]

What you just posted was a felony. You can't even joke like that.

Report me to the feds, tell them to come up and get me in Canada. I'm sure my government would extradite me over comments made on audio reviews forums.
.
I think your president is the most miserable failure in modern history, and is causing the world to fall into a tailspin. I hope his tenure as president ends before any more of his tyranny can spread.
Is that a felony?

I hate being censored.

[Geoffcin]

Report me to the feds, tell them to come up and get me in Canada. I'm sure my government would extradite me over comments made on audio reviews forums.
.
I think your president is the most miserable failure in modern history, and is causing the world to fall into a tailspin. I hope his tenure as president ends before any more of his tyranny can spread.
Is that a felony?

I hate being censored.

That's perfectly fine to write, just don't say that your going to do any bodily harm.

Belive me I did you a favor. You'ld hate it even worse if the SS did want to ask you some questions. Don't think they care, or read what people write on public forums? Think again.

[nightflier]

Actually, the SS (disturbingly ironic acronym), has no jurisdiction in Canada. I believe that a threat like this can be investigated and placed in some database, but as long as Swick stays in Canada, he's fine.

[Geoffcin]

Actually, the SS (disturbingly ironic acronym), has no jurisdiction in Canada. I believe that a threat like this can be investigated and placed in some database, but as long as Swick stays in Canada, he's fine.

That would mean the CIA would get involved. With their history of extrodinary rendition, secret detention facilities, and ghost detainees; If it were me they were after I would much rather be picked up by the Secret Service.

Glad you like the acronym!

[swicken]

That would mean the CIA would get involved. With their history of extrodinary rendition, secret detention facilities, and ghost detainees; If it were me they were after I would much rather be picked up by the Secret Service.

Glad you like the acronym!


CIA couldn't touch me.
I'd like to see them try however.