New Car Purchase - help needed

[kexodusc]

Well my wife's lease runs out in January, a month after she gets back from Australia (damn, who'da thunk it'd be this hard?).

She currently has a 2003 Civic. I use to work in research for Honda so I have a Civic and my Accord Coupe on account of the Employee Discount, but I hate f'n Hondas. All those idiot kids ricing up the Civics and racing them like they were big block V8's is pathetic (there's a saying inside Honda Motor Co - "Racing a Honda is like the Special Olympics - It doesn't matter if you win or lose, you're still retarded!" :arf: ) I use to have an Iroc Z:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=13617&highlight=iroc
and my wife a Buick Regal Grand National - Cubic f'n Inches, man!!! Grrrrr....real cars, YEAH...but damn, it'd cost me $400 in gas a month if I had it today...need something a bit more, well, efficient (I promised myself I'd never say that) Enough rant.

So the new Civic is out - too boring, too many. Not impressed with the Corolla anymore (too sterile, though it is a well engineered compact). Couldn't beat me bad enough into a Mazda or Nissan...and the Focus, well let's not go there.

Looking at something dirt cheap too, thinkin' Rabbit, Vibe/Matrix [Vibe's the best car GM (n)ever built, ya know] maybe one of them Scion thingys, or a good ol Pontiac or Chevy (Oh General, my General, what has become of you?)

So - What should I get, and Why?

[ericl]

Rabbit's don't exist anymore, but maybe you're thining of the Cabrio? Golf? or the GTI? GTI's are supposed to be sweet, i have never driven one before. VW tends to have minor QC issues that will make you appreciate your Honda. Seriously, Hondas are great all around cars. Maybe owning another brand will help you see that. Just because idiot kids decorate and race them like they're in the Fast and the Furious doesn't mean there's something wrong with them!

My bud's Corrolla does not even compare to my ex's 2002 Honda Civic EX in terms of performance and handling. The new Civics got motor trend car of the year! I don't like the looks of the new full sized civic, but the coupe is a good looking little car. and it gets about 40 mpg. Probably my next car if i don't get a hybrid, diesel or Subaru WRX. If only the Civic coupe had rear wheel drive, i would jump on it.

I can't believe you'd want a Pontiac or Chevy over a Mazda! But then again, you do prefer PC's over Macs!! Just teasing ya Kex! :biggrin5:

For a small, inexpensive new car Toyota's Yaris is supposed be a great too..

Of course, none of them compare to my 10 year old BMW! HAHAHA!!

good luck, i love cars. Drive a bunch and have fun!

[GMichael]

Do you still get the Honda discount? How about a Honda 2000? Do they still make them? Or an Acura? Do they count? I have a CL and I love it. Sure, it's only 200 HP and front wheel drive. But it's still very nice. The newer ones are 260 HP I believe.

I've been looking at the (yick) Mazda 3 lately. I'll be driving back & forth to PA once the house is done. And it gets 34mpg. The hackback doesn't make me hurl and it's cute in blue. My last Mazda lasted over 196k miles and still ran great when I sold it.

[JohnMichael]

VW is bringing back the Rabbit. Might be an interesting choice. Toyota will be releasing a new Corolla next year. They were caught off gaurd by the redesign of the Civic and they delayed the body style change until they could do it one better. I have a Toyota Echo that I have enjoyed and it's engine and chasis are used in the Scion Xa and Xb. The engine has a timing chain instead of a belt so I do not have the worries of changing the belt.

[dean_martin]

Hey Kex - I've had fun with this:

http://www.mitsucars.com/MMSA/ModelConfig?ModelID=40&TrimID=193&DestinationServlet=Self&1154709837171

I have the '04 model. I've put almost 33K miles on it with no problems at all. IMO, the manual transmission version was one of the best bang-for-the-buck deals under 20 grand when I was looking.

If it's too much like the "riced up" Civics for you and you want to go old school muscle, I flirted with the idea of a Mercury Marauder. I don't think Mercury makes'em anymore.

[kexodusc]

Ericl:

Don't think I'm going to get a Honda again. Nothing against my old employer, I just find their cars boring. I've rented the new Civic Coupe a few times - it lags the Cobalt Coupe in performance and handling IMO. Though it is much nicer looking and a lot more quiet. Just think we've outgrown Honda for now. Might consider the "Fit"? Maybe....

FWIW, my 2 Hondas have not been immune to poor engineering and shoddy worksmanship. A/C problems up the wazoo and slew of faulty sensors and modules in the fuel/emissions sytem. Mostly under warranty, but I have a bad taste in my mouth now. I worked in marketing research. Honda makes good quality cars, but the general consumer perception about domestic quality vs import quality is grossly over-exaggerated, they've caught up considerably. Honda could even learn a few things about electronics. When it comes to quality, there's Toyota, and then there's everyone else as far as I'm concerned.

As for the Yaris hatchback, though I'm not sure she'd agree to drive that. We get 3 feet of snow here, 60 mile winds, and lots of ice and -40 degree weather 2 months of the year - could a Yaris take that? Think a Matrix might be a bit better...I have $1500 worth of GM points I could use on it's cousin (Pontiac Vibe).

I'm not worried about quality much , I lease, 4 years, she won't go over the mileage. It'll be under warranty for most of the term, and even a Focus can get through a lease period unscathed more often than not. Cars are built reasonably well by most manufacturers if you look after them. Trucks tend to give them more QC headaches.

As for Mazda - I don't know if it's been Ford's influence or what, but their QC issues the last little while look like something out GM's 1970's history. Guess every company has its rough patches. I dont' care for any of their vehicles anyway other than the RX-8 or whatever. And Nissan's Sentra is an old lady car. She'd kill me.

As for PCs and Macs - I don't do CGI for hollywood, and Mac's are just cost-ineffective for office suite/internet/and HTPC use for what performance they offer, IMO. Think we had this discussion before, but after years of fighting the good fight for Apple, my current MacBook will likely be my last. But who knows.

[kexodusc]

Do you still get the Honda discount? How about a Honda 2000? Do they still make them? Or an Acura? Do they count? I have a CL and I love it. Sure, it's only 200 HP and front wheel drive. But it's still very nice. The newer ones are 260 HP I believe.

Uhh, no on the discount - and Acuras and 2000's are a bit more than we want to spend on a second car lease, dude...Besides, you ever been New Brunswick, Canada in January? :D



I've been looking at the (yick) Mazda 3 lately. I'll be driving back & forth to PA once the house is done. And it gets 34mpg. The hackback doesn't make me hurl and it's cute in blue. My last Mazda lasted over 196k miles and still ran great when I sold it.
Most of the consumer reports and lemon guides I scout through now and then suggest Mazda's been having a rough time of late. But the Mazda 3 is seems to be one of the better ones. My first ever car was an old Mazda, don't even remember the model, but it was a hatchback - it had 200K miles (and 2 different colored doors) when I got it. So I believe Mazda knows how to build'em tough. Might give that one another go....34 MPG the posted # or the actual mileage? She'll mostly do city driving and 34 MPG isn't bad, but seems a bit high compared to some competitors? Not too many of them out there though, it would be a bit more unique. I'll add it to the list.

[kexodusc]

VW is bringing back the Rabbit. Might be an interesting choice. Toyota will be releasing a new Corolla next year. They were caught off gaurd by the redesign of the Civic and they delayed the body style change until they could do it one better. I have a Toyota Echo that I have enjoyed and it's engine and chasis are used in the Scion Xa and Xb. The engine has a timing chain instead of a belt so I do not have the worries of changing the belt.
I don't imagine we'd have the thing long enough to worry about belt vs. chain concerns, but it's reassuring to know the Scion is using Toyota technology. FYI, Saturn is using Honda engines because those Ions have were having serious problems with the automatic trannys. That must be driving GM mad.

I dunno, those Scion's have really caught my eye - not many on the road around these parts. Actually, I don't even know if they're sold in Canada yet? I should probably check that out - that might solve that issue.

What about the Rabbit - any word on how that 5 Cyl. engine does or if there'll be another diesel comin' down the pipeline?

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex - I've had fun with this:

http://www.mitsucars.com/MMSA/ModelConfig?ModelID=40&TrimID=193&DestinationServlet=Self&1154709837171

I have the '04 model. I've put almost 33K miles on it with no problems at all. IMO, the manual transmission version was one of the best bang-for-the-buck deals under 20 grand when I was looking.

If it's too much like the "riced up" Civics for you and you want to go old school muscle, I flirted with the idea of a Mercury Marauder. I don't think Mercury makes'em anymore.

Thanks, I'll check out the Lancer...forgot all about Mitsubishi - I really liked the Gallants I've rented. The old Talon I had was a great car.
Kind of looks like an updated version of the old Eagle Summit/Dodge Colt, sort of...those were tough, cheap cars too.

[GMichael]

I believe Mazda knows how to build'em tough. Might give that one another go....34 MPG the posted # or the actual mileage? She'll mostly do city driving and 34 MPG isn't bad, but seems a bit high compared to some competitors? Not too many of them out there though, it would be a bit more unique. I'll add it to the list.

That's the posted number. But my 1992 MX3-GS was posted to get 27mpg and I ended up with over 29mpg. And that was a V6. A tini V6, but still 6 banger.

Have you looked at any Hyundais?

[kexodusc]

That's the posted number. But my 1992 MX3-GS was posted to get 27mpg and I ended up with over 29mpg. And that was a V6. A tini V6, but still 6 banger.

Have you looked at any Hyundais?
Mazda seems to be a hit and miss company. The MX3's were great, their little trucks were extremely tough and versatile. Their mini-vans, well..who cares, it's a min-van.
I actually like the look of the Mazda 3 Sedan better than the hatchback, but I'll let my wife decide that.

Actually, a few co-workers are swearing by Hyundais....I dunno, never paid much attention to them, but they've exploded over the past 5 years or so...I'll always think "Pony" when I think Hyundai.
Guess the Accents are incredible values. What about Kia...same company/designs aren't they?

[GMichael]

Mazda seems to be a hit and miss company. The MX3's were great, their little trucks were extremely tough and versatile. Their mini-vans, well..who cares, it's a min-van.
I actually like the look of the Mazda 3 Sedan better than the hatchback, but I'll let my wife decide that.

Actually, a few co-workers are swearing by Hyundais....I dunno, never paid much attention to them, but they've exploded over the past 5 years or so...I'll always think "Pony" when I think Hyundai.
Guess the Accents are incredible values. What about Kia...same company/designs aren't they?

My friend has a Hyundai. He likes it, but it did need new breaks at under 40k mi. I was looking at the Elantra. But I do like the Mazda better even though it's about $4k more set up the same.

I don't know if Kia has the same designs. But they are both from Korea.

[markw]

Not a spec of trouble, more than enough room for my 6'3" 240 lb frame and three others to fit comfortably, averaging over 25 mpg* (and I 'm not a lightfoot) and I paid 12,500 cash with a sunroof, 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS and TCS.

Just sumptin' to think about. You owe 'em at least a test frive.

We're thinking a Sonata for our next car.

*36 on the highway with CC

[kexodusc]

40K mi isn't bad for brakes at all GM, my Accord, and Civic only lasted about 38 or so for the front. Their both standard tranny's so the rears seem fine still, but I don't have 70K on either yet.

They just don't build cars with thick rotors or huge drums anymore. Brakes go faster these days - lighter weight, better performing, but not as long-lasting it would seem.

So for Hyundai, Accent, or Elantra?

[markw]

So for Hyundai, Accent, or Elantra?IMNSHO, the Accent is a little tight and spartan. Moving up the line to the Elantra and the Sonata, you gain some nice refinements and a better ride as you lay out a few more sheckles. I chose the Elantra because it got slightly better gas mileage than the Sonata and, believe it or not, had more interior room for me than the larger and more expensive Sonata at that time. The Sonata has since been re-designed and is roomier and goregous, but is still slightly more gas hungry than the Elantra, particularly with the (optional) six..

But, if bottom dollar, not refinement, is the goal, the Accent would do fine. It's still got that guarantee. You gets no bread with one meat ball.

http://www.rockmusiclist.com/smeatball.htm

[Woochifer]

I hear you on the previous gen Civics. By all accounts, that was the most boring and uninspired rendition of the Civic ever, but the current models seem to be steering things in the right direction.

My Acura Integra is closing in on 280k, and while it's still going strong, my wife and I will need to look to a new car fairly soon as well (HER Acura Integra is about to pass 230k).

Aside from the usual rental fleet suspects (how many Grand Ams, Tauruses, Focuses, and Cobalts can you stuff onto an Avis lot?), the only car I've test driven recently was the Mazda3 and I must say that car has got one of the best balanced FWD chassis' that I've ever driven. The only weak link might be the engine, which lacks some of the refinement of Honda and Toyota's better powerplants. You're right about Mazda's hit-and-miss reliability, but the 3 seems to have fared well, while the 6 has had a lot of problems. I'm looking at the 5-door hatchback. But, at the Auto Show, my wife really grew to like the Mazda 5, which looks like a minivan but is more of a tall wagon along the lines of the old Nissan Axxess. It's built on the same chassis as the Mazda 3, but has a taller profile and three rows of seats.

I've also been looking at the Vibe/Matrix. The Vibe is built only a few miles from my house at the jointly owned GM-Toyota NUMMI plant, and some of the auto workers at that plant live in the neighborhood, so I do want to give that model a good look. NUMMI is one of the highest rated plants in North America (I believe that only the GM plant that builds Buick's LaCrosse is rated higher), and aside from the Vibe, that facility also builds the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma.

Other models we've been researching include the PT Cruiser (there's still a certain coolness to it, and the interior is roomier and more versatile than you might think), the Scion Xb (another infinitely practical car -- lots of interior space and great gas mileage -- with funky looks that make up for the lack of horsepower), and the Chevy HHR (very cool retro looks and a good sized interior, but I hear that it's also got the retro GM floaty steering feel and rough engine).

Hyundai -- talk about a car company storming back from the dead. The latest JD Power rankings put them ahead of every Japanese nameplate except Lexus. But, if you think Civics are boring to drive, wait 'til you get behind the wheel of a Hyundai Accent. :sleep: The Sonata's got a bit more life to it, but my recollection from driving it a few years ago was that it was a bit rough around the edges and not nearly as refined as some of the competing vehicles. Hyundai might have improved things since then.

A lot of my friends have been looking at Volkswagen, but as much as I want them to do well (my first car was a VW Bug), they keep shooting themselves in the foot, first with the less-than-stellar reliability record, and then with the ghastly bloated looks of the new Jetta and Passat. (That Jetta looks like a German interpretation of the Corolla) My mom got one of the New Beetles in 2000, and while that car has a very cool design and is fun to drive (though almost as slow as the original Bug with the stock engine), it has had one problem after another -- most of them electrical.

For all of VW's marketing slogans about German engineering, the Beetle includes some very questionable design decisions. For example, one of the safety systems requires that the driver step on the brake pedal in order to shift out of Park. But, this safety lockout is on the same circuit with the brake light, and will only work if the brake light is also working! This means that if the brake light burns out, you can't get the car in gear and have to tow it somewhere. This design has already stranded my mom twice. I don't know if VW has fixed this issue, or if it also affected the Jetta, Golf, and GTI, which shared the same chassis.

VW's new 5-cylinder engine is long overdue, since they've been going with that anemic 2.0 liter iron-block four for at least two decades. The new engine is more powerful, yet it gets better mileage than the previous engine. But, given that it's totally new design, I would be very wary about the reliability, since VW had problems with the early production 1.8Ts and VR6s.

Toyota seems like the most anonymous car company on the planet, yet they just keep selling cars as fast as they can make them. A friend of mine who worked as an automotive engineer told me that Toyota has the resources to make world-class performance vehicles in every category if they wanted to. But, they purposely focus on the middle-of-the-road market and worry more about the reliability and little things like the ergonomics and feel of the controls than the 0-60 and slalom times.

If your wife predominantly does city driving, then you might also look into a hybrid. The gas savings that you get with a hybrid are maximized with stop-and-go city driving. Plus, the tax credit for hybrid vehicles might still be around (it has an expiration date, but I'm not sure if it has passed or not), and some states allow hybrid vehicles to get a carpool lane permit.

[Feanor]

...
So the new Civic is out - too boring, too many. ...


Humm!! Puts me in my place. :blush2: I think the Civic is the epitome of very modern but but tastefully constrained design.
...

[kexodusc]

The Civics look like the late 99 - 2005 Intrepid shrunk down to me...the coupe is so/so, but mostly I just want to get out of driving Hondas. I'm familiar enough with the company's track record, I won't bash them, but I just find them boring. You guys work for them, be around them 24/7, then see if you want to buy one. :D

The Civic is right for some, but this cat's outgrown them. Though I do like my Accord coupe...slew of problems aside...it's a fun car.

The Cobalt has really impressed me as a car, but damn it's body lines are a bit fugly. The pontiac isn't much better.

Hyundai has taken the world by storm, hasn't it?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I do consider every one of them. I like Hondas, I'm just bored of them from being around them so much.
Don't mean to offend Honda fanboys (you guys paid my bills for a few years).

Wooch: Hybrid isn't an option - The Toyota Prius is so sparse in Canada it's unlikely to get one, and the Hondas have so many issues with reliablilty it's not funny...my local dealer refuses to sell them until Honda fixes'em. (Weird, cause they use Toyota technology).

I bet she'd love one of those weird lookin' japanese hatchbacks. I love the PT Cruiser - my father in law has a 1936 Buick Coupe with a big 351 engine in it that looks just like on steroids. They're damn practical cars, and are very well built. Chrysler hit a home run with them. Not the greatest on gas, but not bad either.

[ForeverAutumn]

I drove a Focus for three years (leased) and I loved it! I don't know your reason for not liking them, but give them a chance. At the time (2002) I found them to be the car where I could get the most for my money. Fully loaded, higher end engine, moonroof, leather, all power options, and sport package for less than I could get any comparable car in the same class without all the options. It was zippy and totally fun to drive. You'll want snow tires in the winter if you get the higher end model. The low profile tires sucked in the snow.

When I was looking for a new car at the end of the lease, I test drove a Mazda 6 and really liked it. By that point I had pretty much decided on a small SUV, but if I were to go the car route, that would have been a serious contender. I hated the Vibe when I test drove it. Loved the design, but it felt like I was driving a tin can. For the money they were charging, I was expecting a little more quality.

If you're concerned about the cost of mileage, have you considered diesel? I have a friend who just bought a Jetta TDI and loves it. He lives in Sudbury and his job takes him up to Timmins and Sault Ste Marie, so I think it's a safe assumption that it's good in the snow (with snow tires on it).

Currently, I'm driving a Ford Escape and I can't imagine going back to driving a car ever again. Not so great on gas in the city (pretty good on the highway though). But it's gotten me through a major flood where all the regular sized cars on the road stalled and it's fantastic in the snow even without the snow tires. And...it comes in a Hybrid.

[kexodusc]

I drove a Focus for three years (leased) and I loved it! I don't know your reason for not liking them, but give them a chance. At the time (2002) I found them to be the car where I could get the most for my money. Fully loaded, higher end engine, moonroof, leather, all power options, and sport package for less than I could get any comparable car in the same class without all the options. It was zippy and totally fun to drive. You'll want snow tires in the winter if you get the higher end model. The low profile tires sucked in the snow.

When I was looking for a new car at the end of the lease, I test drove a Mazda 6 and really liked it. By that point I had pretty much decided on a small SUV, but if I were to go the car route, that would have been a serious contender. I hated the Vibe when I test drove it. Loved the design, but it felt like I was driving a tin can. For the money they were charging, I was expecting a little more quality.

If you're concerned about the cost of mileage, have you considered diesel? I have a friend who just bought a Jetta TDI and loves it. He lives in Sudbury and his job takes him up to Timmins and Sault Ste Marie, so I think it's a safe assumption that it's good in the snow (with snow tires on it).

Currently, I'm driving a Ford Escape and I can't imagine going back to driving a car ever again. Not so great on gas in the city (pretty good on the highway though). But it's gotten me through a major flood where all the regular sized cars on the road stalled and it's fantastic in the snow even without the snow tires. And...it comes in a Hybrid.

Thanks FA,

I've got nothing against the Focus per se, and I do end up renting them an aweful lot because my work makes me travel so much. They really aren't a terrible car at all, are cheap enough, and handle well. My family in the USA run GM and Dodge dealerships, so I was born biased with anti-Ford sentiment. As irrational as it may be, it's genetic, and I can't shake it. I have to admit though, the new Fusion and Mustang are the 2 nicest cars I've seen in a long time.

As for the Vibe - it's a glorified station wagon, but I wouldn't worry about quality. It's built by Toyota, it's the same car as the Toyota Matrix - and even this GM fan won't hesitate to admit GM doesn't build cars as well as Toyota does. But as I mentioned, any car we get will be leased (we prefer leasing) and will be covered under warranty 90% of the period or more anyway. Not really that worried about quality, I dont' own them long enough for it to be a concern for me.

My wife mentioned the Matrix as a possibility, the reasons I'm leaning towards the Vibe are a bit shallow, but I have $1500 worth of GM points on my Visa card I can cash in on a GM, and GM has lower lease interest rates than Toyota. Her call in the end.

My mother-in-law is looking at the Escape as a matter of fact. How do you like it? Is the Hybrid much more expensive? She says it's the easiest SUV to get in and out of. Guess that's what matters to her.

Good call on the Jetta. The Rabbit is also suppose to be releasing a diesel version, might look at that too. I rented a Golf TDI to get me across the praries in Canada for 4 days and got over 1000 Km's per tank - almost 30% better than my wife's Civic. And diesel was about 0.18 cents/liter cheaper at the time.


Great suggestions guys - no flame wars yet either, keep' em coming!

[ForeverAutumn]

I wasn't "worried" about the quality of the Vibe. I also lease, so I don't care about long-term stability. I just didn't like the feel of the car. It's personal preference I guess.

As for the Escape. I LOVE it. I don't have the Hybrid. It was about $4,000 more expensive than the V6 engine and about $8,000 more than the l-4. I crunched the numbers and it was going to be a long time before I ended up breaking even based on the price of gas at the time. And since I was taking out a three year lease, I would have never reached that break even point. It is more environmentally friendly, but doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint.

What I love about my Escape is that it handles like a car, but puts you higher off the ground for better visability. It's almost the same size as my Focus was. Both are 70" in length, the Escape is four inches wider. It's that extra height that makes it an SUV.

It's a very heavy vehicle. When I was test driving, I found that that l-4 engine didn't have enough power for the weight of the car. It really dragged when changing lanes on the highway and if you had the air conditioner on...forgetaboutit.

The V6, on the other hand, is peppy and fun. On a lease, it was only an extra $25/mth to go to the V6 engine...so I did. If you're not doing a lot of highway driving or aren't a speed demon like I am, then the l-4 may suit.

From a mileage perspective, it's suprisingly good on the highway. Ford will tell you 9.4L/100km. In my experience, that's just about bang on. In the city it's not very good at all. I get about 12L/100km. I live in Toronto where every day is a traffic jam. All of that stopping and starting is very hard on mileage. You may get better mileage in NB.

The other thing that I found when shopping for cars and pricing out leases, was that the American car makers put a much higher residual value on their cars than the Japanese companies do, making the monthly lease payment much lower on the American cars.

My first choice in vehicles was actually the Subaru Forester. Both the Forester and the Escape that I was looking at were the same purchase price. But the Forester lease was considerably higher and was for four years. The same with Hyundai. For the money, Ford was the best deal...and they have their Family Pricing sale on now.

That's my rave about the Escape. I hope it helps.

[kexodusc]

Thanks FA -

Lease residuals are all over the map, actually. Check out a Civic or Corolla vs a Cobalt or Focus. A lot of that is timing, and whatever promotions they've got on - quite often Toyota and Hondas have the highest , but not always. The residual on my wife's Civic was going down $2000 the week after we bought - one of the reasons we bought when we did.

Sounds like you got a great deal on a SUV you really like - good for you. I don't think my inlaw will bother with a Hybrid for the same reasons you mentioned, though, if that $1500 tax credit for hybrids the politicians are mulling over here comes through it might be reasonable.

Maybe I'll check out the Escape myself - my lease runs out next August, and I have no idea what I want.

[audio amateur]

Get a second generation M3:)
PS. You have a PM kex (and a mail).

[ericl]

What about a used Subaru Impreza? Not too expensive, decent engine, good on gas, and standard all wheel drive - great for the snow. They're fun to drive too! Great handling!

[kexodusc]

What about a used Subaru Impreza? Not too expensive, decent engine, good on gas, and standard all wheel drive - great for the snow. They're fun to drive too! Great handling!

Good call. I've always liked the Impreza...don't know why, it's a goofy weird looking car, but looks like it'd be a blast to drive. Unfortunately she's not keen on it.

Update: I actually drove a Honda Fit of all things on the weekend and she really likes the looks of it (but hasn't been in one yet - guess they're not out in Australia)...gotta admit, the price was certainly right and it was a decent sized vehicle. She'll use for driving our dog to get ice cream, carrying her golf gear, and picking up groceries, it's more than up to the task. A little underpowerd compared to Vibe/Matrix though, and the styling I'm not to sure about. The interior was nice and it was practical. I still want to see the new Rabbit, my dad had an old Rabbit that was almost my first car until it we had to put it down....

This could be painful - she takes 3 hours to shop for shoes, and we'll have 1 month to find her a car when she gets back...Yaris Hatchback is next on my list.

[GMichael]

This could be painful - she takes 3 hours to shop for shoes, and we'll have 1 month to find her a car when she gets back...Yaris Hatchback is next on my list.


In most women's worlds, shoes are way more important than cars. So you may be able to get done on time. When my lil' wifey shops for just about anything, it goes kinda like this. Walk in. Wander around looking at everything else the store has to offer. Go over to the isle the item she came for is in. Look at everything else in that isle. Pick up the item she came for. Stare without moving or even twitching for at least 20 minutes. Put it down and look at something else. Stare at it for 10 to 15 minutes. Wander around the store some more. Come back to that item. Pick it up again. Stare some more. Look off in the distance for awhile. Look at me as if she wants me to make her mind up for her. Put the item down. Wonder around the store some more. Buy a few items we don't need. Look at a few more. wonder back to that isle again. Look at a few other items. Stare some more. Pick up the original item we went there for. Stare a few more minutes. And then walk out without buying it. Come back next week and repeat.
When we bought a car for her it was much better. All she did was make me pick it out. I got the guy to come down $2k on a 98 Civic. Then she told him it was too high and got him to come down another $500 and throw in floor mats, key chains, and assorted accessories. Much much better.

[JohnMichael]

Update: I actually drove a Honda Fit of all things on the weekend and she really likes the looks of it (but hasn't been in one yet - guess they're not out in Australia)...gotta admit, the price was certainly right and it was a decent sized vehicle.

This could be painful - she takes 3 hours to shop for shoes, and we'll have 1 month to find her a car when she gets back...Yaris Hatchback is next on my list.[/QUOTE]


This could be my imagination running away with me but I think the Honda Fit looks a lot like the Chevy Aveo and a Suzuki model. I was wondering if Honda actually made it or put their H on it. The Yaris is the Echo with a new body style. I have to tell you about my Echo. I have 52,000 miles on it in 5 years of driving. I bought it with the auto trans because I can be a lazy shifter and I put too much drag on the engine at times. The car has been driven hard. I like to drive fast and get away from annoying drivers quickly. The car has required no service other than oil changes and I do the tune-ups. As far as brakes I pulled the wheels and inspected my disc pads and am in good shape. The car weighs around 1 ton and being light it seems like the brakes are not working as hard so not wearing as quickly. When I visit Quebec City I see a lot of Echos zipping around. Another place I have noticed their popularity is in Vermont. They handle Ohio snows easily and they must do well in those other areas. The first thing I noticed with the Echo was cross winds due to its height but after a short while they no longer bothered me. The car has a direct ignition system so no distributor cap, rotor or wires to replace. I have to say that for around town driving it is the most fun car I have driven. My next car will be a Yaris.

[kexodusc]

The Fit is bigger than the Aveo - which is a DaeWoo car sold under Pontiac, Chev, and Suzuki brands...supposedly an excellent car from one of Asia's highest rated plants. But I don't fit well in them. The 2007 looks like a big improvement, in the Sedan at least. But that's too small for her.

[ForeverAutumn]

She'll use for driving our dog to get ice cream, carrying her golf gear, and picking up groceries, it's more than up to the task.

You're spoiling your dog. :crazy:

[kexodusc]

You're spoiling your dog. :crazy:
that's why we got him...seriously, if she had to choose between me and him, I'd have to find a place to stay.

[markw]

I tried on a Yaris a few weeks ago and found it tight. IIRC, the Echo had more interior room.

But don't get me wrong. Toyota makes a great car. My wife's 99 corolla is going strong @ 80k with no problems, asfde from three bent right front rims which I can't blame on the car. If I could fit in it without contortionst I'd have one myself.

[Woochifer]

As for the Vibe - it's a glorified station wagon, but I wouldn't worry about quality. It's built by Toyota, it's the same car as the Toyota Matrix - and even this GM fan won't hesitate to admit GM doesn't build cars as well as Toyota does. But as I mentioned, any car we get will be leased (we prefer leasing) and will be covered under warranty 90% of the period or more anyway. Not really that worried about quality, I dont' own them long enough for it to be a concern for me.

My wife mentioned the Matrix as a possibility, the reasons I'm leaning towards the Vibe are a bit shallow, but I have $1500 worth of GM points on my Visa card I can cash in on a GM, and GM has lower lease interest rates than Toyota. Her call in the end.

Like I mentioned above, the Vibe is built at the jointly owned GM-Toyota NUMMI plant in California. The Matrix is built at Toyota's facility in Ontario. The quality at both plants is very high, so high at NUMMI in fact that right-side driver Toyotas are built there for export back to Japan.

The points on your GM Visa card and the lower lease rates are definitely not shallow reasons for going with a Vibe! Aside from the styling (IMO the Vibe is more tastefully done than the Matrix) and the option packages, the two cars are fundamentally identical.


Update: I actually drove a Honda Fit of all things on the weekend and she really likes the looks of it (but hasn't been in one yet - guess they're not out in Australia)...gotta admit, the price was certainly right and it was a decent sized vehicle. She'll use for driving our dog to get ice cream, carrying her golf gear, and picking up groceries, it's more than up to the task. A little underpowerd compared to Vibe/Matrix though, and the styling I'm not to sure about. The interior was nice and it was practical. I still want to see the new Rabbit, my dad had an old Rabbit that was almost my first car until it we had to put it down....

This could be painful - she takes 3 hours to shop for shoes, and we'll have 1 month to find her a car when she gets back...Yaris Hatchback is next on my list.

Amazing what Honda did in packaging the Fit. They simply moved the fuel tank underneath the front seats and created that huge vertical space in the rear when the seats are tilted up. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the Aveo. I've driven the Aveo sedan as a rental, and was surprised at how tight the handling feels and how much space they created by simply making a squat and narrow car taller.

I've already seen the new GTI, and if the Rabbit has a similarly appointed interior, it will definitely hold a lot of appeal if the price is right. Another plus is that its styling is much cleaner and not nearly as bloated looking as the Jetta. The only drawback though is VW's recent track record with its reliability. Might not matter with a short-term lease, but getting stranded does suck! (Just ask my mom!)

A note on the Yaris, I believe that it shares the same platform with the Scion xA and xB. The two-box xB has acquired a sizable cult following here in Cali, and I will say that it has one of the best interior layouts around -- lots of usable space in a very compact package. The 5-door xA looks very similar to the Yaris and the interior there felt much smaller and was a tighter squeeze all the way around. Scions are not sold in Canada yet, but I thought that you also lived in the U.S. part-time?

[ForeverAutumn]

In most women's worlds, shoes are way more important than cars. So you may be able to get done on time. When my lil' wifey shops for just about anything, it goes kinda like this. Walk in. Wander around looking at everything else the store has to offer. Go over to the isle the item she came for is in. Look at everything else in that isle. Pick up the item she came for. Stare without moving or even twitching for at least 20 minutes. Put it down and look at something else. Stare at it for 10 to 15 minutes. Wander around the store some more. Come back to that item. Pick it up again. Stare some more. Look off in the distance for awhile. Look at me as if she wants me to make her mind up for her. Put the item down. Wonder around the store some more. Buy a few items we don't need. Look at a few more. wonder back to that isle again. Look at a few other items. Stare some more. Pick up the original item we went there for. Stare a few more minutes. And then walk out without buying it. Come back next week and repeat.


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

[ForeverAutumn]

that's why we got him...seriously, if she had to choose between me and him, I'd have to find a place to stay.

OMG! That's just the cutest set of ears I've ever seen!

[GMichael]

that's why we got him...seriously, if she had to choose between me and him, I'd have to find a place to stay.

Now THAT is A CUTE dog.

[kexodusc]

Amazing what Honda did in packaging the Fit. They simply moved the fuel tank underneath the front seats and created that huge vertical space in the rear when the seats are tilted up. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the Aveo. I've driven the Aveo sedan as a rental, and was surprised at how tight the handling feels and how much space they created by simply making a squat and narrow car taller.

Yeah, it was a fun little car, I was really impressed, and I might be eating my earlier words here - I could see her liking the Fit alot. Okay, kudos to Honda for a great little sport wagon!


I've already seen the new GTI, and if the Rabbit has a similarly appointed interior, it will definitely hold a lot of appeal if the price is right. Another plus is that its styling is much cleaner and not nearly as bloated looking as the Jetta. The only drawback though is VW's recent track record with its reliability. Might not matter with a short-term lease, but getting stranded does suck! (Just ask my mom!)
VW's track record has been hit and miss recently. Good friend of mine had serious water leak and tranny problems in his Golf, only to find out several others at the same dealer have as well - that's usually not a coincidence. Though he did say that the VW "made things right", which goes along way with me. I know first hand that GM's philosophy is often "you'll be back, they all come back"...



A note on the Yaris, I believe that it shares the same platform with the Scion xA and xB. The two-box xB has acquired a sizable cult following here in Cali, and I will say that it has one of the best interior layouts around -- lots of usable space in a very compact package. The 5-door xA looks very similar to the Yaris and the interior there felt much smaller and was a tighter squeeze all the way around. Scions are not sold in Canada yet, but I thought that you also lived in the U.S. part-time?
I work in the USA a bit, but we moved full-time from Bangor, Maine almost 2 years ago to New Brunswick, Canada. I only get back to the US for vacation and to visit family in North Dakota and Atlanta these days.. The $Cdn is great for buying a car there now, but I'm not sure about taxes, tariffs, and emissions standards, and leasing while not a resident of the USA is problematic. I don't think I want to go through all that work just to explore the Scion, but it does look really nice.

I'll just give the Yaris a good look and go from there.

[kexodusc]

OMG! That's just the cutest set of ears I've ever seen!
You should se him maul a DQ ice cream cone....BTW, DQ gives free cones/milk bone sundaes to dogs these days...helps offset those $5 ice cream snacks...

[kexodusc]

UPDATE:

Broken hand and all, I drove a Rabbit and a Nissan Versa - these are by far the front runners now. VW did a great job of making the rabbit more fun and more contemporary in terms of styling - wicked amount of Tourque in that 5-banger too! 6-spd auto??? WTF? supposedly better on gas than the 5spd.

The Versa was a lot more nimble, and peppier than most other hatchbacks like the Matrix, Fit, etc I've been in. And it had a high quality "feel" to it. 6-spd standard to boot! Very fun and practical, and a good step up on the Fit, IMO. Handled well, and surprisingly quiet - think te smaller 15" wheels helped there!

Wow, there's some nice, practical cars out there right now!!!

[topspeed]

If you go by C/D, R&T, Automobile, et al, they rank it as Fit>Versa>Yaris. The Yaris, by every account, is underpowered and underequipped versus the Honda and Nissan offerings. The Fit has the best chassis and liveliest handling while the Versa has the strongest engine and upscale interior. It really depends on your priorities. The Rabbit is in a different price bracket all-together.

A note about the Rabbit, VW's qc has been downright scary for 5 years now. The last long-term test of a VW was the Phaeton (VW's flagship), and that car was plagued with electrical gremlins from day one. Like all of the German manufacturers right now, VW still hasn't figured out they are better mechanical engineers than computer engineers. If reliability is a priority, scratch VW.

If, OTH, performance is a priority, the Mazda3 is your best bet. The C1 platform is considered by many to be one of, if not the finest fwd platform extant. There's a reason it also underpins the Volvo S40 & C70 as well as the award winning Euro Ford Focus (waaay different from the old one we're stuck with). Unrivaled handling and the best interior in the class. If you want more motor, this fall they are releasing the Mazdapeed3 with the same direct injection MZR turbo I4 of the Speed6: 274hp, 280lb/ft. That 'oughta satiate your inner big-block :devil:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3

You mentioned you have GM credits, right? If you like the PT Cruiser (certainly a worthy test drive, especially in GT form), have you considered the GM clone, the Chevy HHR?

http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-2.jpg
http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-1.jpg

Starting at a little over $16k, it's right there with the Versa and Fit. This is a Cobalt that's either been to the gym or had too many buckets of KFC, depending on how you look at it. Same Ecotec motor, same chassis. It has a great stance and presence when seen on the street.

I like the Subie recommendation, especially a WRX. Very good interior fit and finish, awd and 250hp of go-power. Delete the ricer wing (which you can do), and you have a serious sleeper.

Also consider that you can lease used cars. While the money factor is usually higher, if you get a CPO car, the residuals are usually quite nice. We leased an Infinity I30 about 6 years ago and that was a terrific car. Plus, you get all the perks of a new Infinity such as a free loaner, roadside assistance, extended warranty, yadayadayada. Just a thought.

A note about leasing:
Remember that it isn't necessarily the cap cost that determines your selection of cars, but moreso the residual. As you know, on a lease all you're paying for is the depreciation (and the money factor of course). Therefore a higher residual on a more exclusive car, such as the Speed3, may actually yield a lower payment, even tho it starts with a higher cap cost. For example, my car has a ridiculously high 36 month residual of 78%, which is far higher than any of its competition. Because of this, my payment is actually lower than if I tried to lease a less expensive car from a competitor.

There are a lot of great cars out there, both new and used. If you want my opinion, list your priorities and price range.

Hope this helps.

[kexodusc]

If you go by C/D, R&T, Automobile, et al, they rank it as Fit>Versa>Yaris. The Yaris, by every account, is underpowered and underequipped versus the Honda and Nissan offerings. The Fit has the best chassis and liveliest handling while the Versa has the strongest engine and upscale interior. It really depends on your priorities. The Rabbit is in a different price bracket all-together.

A note about the Rabbit, VW's qc has been downright scary for 5 years now. The last long-term test of a VW was the Phaeton (VW's flagship), and that car was plagued with electrical gremlins from day one. Like all of the German manufacturers right now, VW still hasn't figured out they are better mechanical engineers than computer engineers. If reliability is a priority, scratch VW.

If, OTH, performance is a priority, the Mazda3 is your best bet. The C1 platform is considered by many to be one of, if not the finest fwd platform extant. There's a reason it also underpins the Volvo S40 & C70 as well as the award winning Euro Ford Focus (waaay different from the old one we're stuck with). Unrivaled handling and the best interior in the class. If you want more motor, this fall they are releasing the Mazdapeed3 with the same direct injection MZR turbo I4 of the Speed6: 274hp, 280lb/ft. That 'oughta satiate your inner big-block :devil:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3

You mentioned you have GM credits, right? If you like the PT Cruiser (certainly a worthy test drive, especially in GT form), have you considered the GM clone, the Chevy HHR?

http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-2.jpg
http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-1.jpg

Starting at a little over $16k, it's right there with the Versa and Fit. It has a great stance and presence when seen on the street.

I like the Subie recommendation, especially a WRX. Very good interior fit and finish, awd and 250hp of go-power. Delete the ricer wing (which you can do), and you have a serious sleeper.

Also consider that you can lease used cars. While the money factor is usually higher, if you get a CPO car, the residuals are usually quite nice. We leased an Infinity I30 about 6 years ago and that was a terrific car. Plus, you get all the perks of a new Infinity such as a free loaner, roadside assistance, extended warranty, yadayadayada. Just a thought.

A note about leasing:
Remember that it isn't necessarily the cap cost that determines your selection of cars, but moreso the residual. As you know, on a lease all you're paying for is the depreciation (and the money factor of course). Therefore a higher residual on a more exclusive car, such as the Speed3, may actually yield a lower payment, even tho it starts with a higher cap cost. For example, my car has a ridiculously high 36 month residual of 78%, which is far higher than any of it's competition. Because of this, my payment is actually lower than if I tried to lease a less expensive car from a competitor.

There are a lot of great cars out there, both new and used. If you want my opinion, list your priorities and price range.

Hope this helps.

Thanks T/S. This thing is ultimately my wifes car - she wants something "newish" (no 6 year old models), compact, decent on gas, and not terrible to drive. Not sure if u read the whole thread or not, she has a Civic now - something not much bigger than that. I'm not too worried about the price range, though I wouldn't go much higher than the 5 door Rabbit. The Fit was nice, but it seemed underpowered and a bit bland inside and out. I don't recall it handling any better than the Versa, but maybe a bit. The Versa had balls though and would smoke the Fit. Still, it was a nice car, she might like it more than the Versa.
I know of VW's QC issues, though I'm not too concerned, she's a low mileage commuter, and has my car available half the time. At least the Rabbit would be under warranty the entire lease period. Besides, best to buy a model designed during a companies hard times - I bet they scrutinized every inch of those things. The cat's out of the bag on the myths on a lot of imports. I know first hand Honda's had their own demond in recent years.

Never saw that GM thing you posted - wuzzat? Looks a bit---big? Peaked my interest - I'm a GM loyalist at heart.

How have the Mazda 3's been on gas and in terms of reliability...that's been the 2 hard knocks I've heard anecdotedly on them...

[GMichael]

Thanks T/S. This thing is ultimately my wifes car - she wants something "newish" (no 6 year old models), compact, decent on gas, and not terrible to drive. Not sure if u read the whole thread or not, she has a Civic now - something not much bigger than that. I'm not too worried about the price range, though I wouldn't go much higher than the 5 door Rabbit. The Fit was nice, but it seemed underpowered and a bit bland inside and out. I don't recall it handling any better than the Versa, but maybe a bit. The Versa had balls though and would smoke the Fit. Still, it was a nice car, she might like it more than the Versa.
I know of VW's QC issues, though I'm not too concerned, she's a low mileage commuter, and has my car available half the time. At least the Rabbit would be under warranty the entire lease period. Besides, best to buy a model designed during a companies hard times - I bet they scrutinized every inch of those things. The cat's out of the bag on the myths on a lot of imports. I know first hand Honda's had their own demond in recent years.

Never saw that GM thing you posted - wuzzat? Looks a bit---big? Peaked my interest - I'm a GM loyalist at heart.

How have the Mazda 3's been on gas and in terms of reliability...that's been the 2 hard knocks I've heard anecdotedly on them...

Our VP smashed up his Lexus a few weeks ago. He got this GM thingy for a couple of weeks while they fixed him up. He loved it. It's looks to be mid size to me.

[topspeed]

Hey Kex,

I just got back from two weeks in Maui. Sorry I'm late to the party :D.

The Chevy HHR (Heritage High Roof) is meant to evoke the original Suburban. You can see a direct similarity between the two if you follow the lines (ignore the rust)

http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/images/goldfarb_steve_1952_01.jpg

The HHR is nearly identical in every dimension to a PT Cruiser. I guess it depends on how big that car is to your wife. If you're a GM guy, you should definitely try one out. They've been available for about a year now.

Long term tests of the Mazda3 have been very positive with no major failures that I can think of. Mileage is rated at 28/35 for the 3i and 26/32 for the 3s. The "s" has the hotter motor. I have no idea what the Speed3 will rate at. If you're used to IROC Z's, that anvil you call a right foot will likely yield high teens to low twenty's in town. That's not as bad as it sounds. When I really get on mine, I easily drop into the single digits :(! Chances are, you'll get a couple digits below the EPA ratings with the 3. Why? It is unquestionably, and quite unapologetically sporty. It is the sports car of the class and proudly wears the mantle as such. You don't commute in the 3...you drive in the 3. Because of this, you'll likely prod the throttle a bit more aggressively than you would the Versa or Rabbit.

You likely have to deal with snow up there in the Great White North, no? You might also consider a Jeep Compass which starts in the mid $15's.

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/jeep-compass-1.jpg

[Woochifer]

If, OTH, performance is a priority, the Mazda3 is your best bet. The C1 platform is considered by many to be one of, if not the finest fwd platform extant. There's a reason it also underpins the Volvo S40 & C70 as well as the award winning Euro Ford Focus (waaay different from the old one we're stuck with). Unrivaled handling and the best interior in the class. If you want more motor, this fall they are releasing the Mazdapeed3 with the same direct injection MZR turbo I4 of the Speed6: 274hp, 280lb/ft. That 'oughta satiate your inner big-block :devil:

Welcome back Speedy! I was wondering why you hadn't chimed in yet. This thread is tailor made for you!

Gotta agree with you on the Mazda 3. I test drove the thing a few months ago, and it has a very impressive chassis. Definitely one of the better front-drivers out there. The dealer sitting in the car with me kept telling me to punch it whenever turns were approaching. She knew what she was talking about because the car was a joy to fling around in tight corners.

The only weakness is indeed the motor. It runs a little rough and gets a bit tempermental as it pushes into the higher RPMs (I might be too used to the matching Integras in our driveway, which practically beg you to push up to the redline). Power is decent and it seems pretty quick. Only the refinement and manners at the limits need work. I can only imagine what kind of a monster that Mazdaspeed3 will be like!

My wife is looking at the Mazda 5 because she wants more cargo room and space for our dog (as well as any potential non-furry kids that might be in the offing). I haven't driven it yet, but it's on the same chassis, even though it also has a taller profile and carries 400 extra lbs.


You mentioned you have GM credits, right? If you like the PT Cruiser (certainly a worthy test drive, especially in GT form), have you considered the GM clone, the Chevy HHR?

http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-2.jpg
http://www.mavel.com/forecast/detroit2005/chevy-HHR-1.jpg

Starting at a little over $16k, it's right there with the Versa and Fit. This is a Cobalt that's either been to the gym or had too many buckets of KFC, depending on how you look at it. Same Ecotec motor, same chassis. It has a great stance and presence when seen on the street.

Saw these at the Auto Show. This is one of the coolest cars that GM has designed in a while. I like that it's a little bit bigger than the PT Cruiser and Vibe/Matrix, and it has a nice interior layout (probably not quite as efficiently laid out as the PT Cruiser). But, I have driven a Cobalt before and thought it needed some work, and suppsedly the HHR is heavier and tuned to ride softer. It's not like the Cobalt was a barnburner to begin with, so I'd be curious as to how the HHR drives though I'm not expecting much. But, sitting on a show floor, this car was very impressive.

[ForeverAutumn]

You likely have to deal with snow up there in the Great White North, no? You might also consider a Jeep Compass which starts in the mid $15's.

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/jeep-compass-1.jpg

That's a nice looking little car. I'd question how those low-profile tires would fare in the snow though.

The down-side of leasing (in my experience) is that you really don't want to spend the money to buy snow tires for a car that you're only gonna own for three or four years. Unless, of course, you can work the tires into the lease as part of the deal and the tires get returned with the car at the end. I've yet to find a dealer that would go for that.

[kexodusc]

Great food for thought guys. Can't say I'm use to driving an IROC any more - we sold my car and her Buick Grand National (her dad's originally) to get a down payment for a house and cover my 1st year MBA tuition bach in 1998 and 2000. Selling my Z was easy, parting with the Regal was tough...they never had the looks, but that car was more machine than my IROC...since then I've been in company cars - a 2000 Neon (which was very good to me surprisingly, the 5spd was fun - none of the problems the 1st gens had), but I smoked a moose in that (and the unibody design saved my life) - then a Volvo S40 which I traded in for the Accord Coupe when I worked for Honda - the Volvo was bland, but more fun.
She's had a Civic and Sentra (which I might check also).
Could be awhile before I get another muscle car - I've loved all of Dodge's RWD models lately though, and the new Mustang looks nice...I've got a year left though before I check into that.

I'll check into the HHR - is it truly built on the Cobalt platform? I know when I was selling Chryslers, the PT Cruiser was commonly said to be built on the Neon's (even by supposedly reputable magazines), but that is absolutely false. Nothing like the K-car/Caravan setup from the 80's, PT was in the works long before Neon.
Chevy dropping a turbocharger into that HHR???

[kexodusc]

That's a nice looking little car. I'd question how those low-profile tires would fare in the snow though.

The down-side of leasing (in my experience) is that you really don't want to spend the money to buy snow tires for a car that you're only gonna own for three or four years. Unless, of course, you can work the tires into the lease as part of the deal and the tires get returned with the car at the end. I've yet to find a dealer that would go for that.

We get about three winters out of snow tires, but really, the all-seasons are almost good enough - on days when she'd need snow tires in the well plowed city, she won't be on the road anyway. And yes, low profile/fwd tires suck in the snow!!!

[Feanor]

Saw these at the Auto Show. This is one of the coolest cars that GM has designed in a while. I like that it's a little bit bigger than the PT Cruiser and Vibe/Matrix, and it has a nice interior layout (probably not quite as efficiently laid out as the PT Cruiser). But, I have driven a Cobalt before and thought it needed some work, and suppsedly the HHR is heavier and tuned to ride softer. It's not like the Cobalt was a barnburner to begin with, so I'd be curious as to how the HHR drives though I'm not expecting much. But, sitting on a show floor, this car was very impressive.

I'm not impressed with the current "retro" styling trend with the exception of the Volkswagen Beetle ...

Very sleek, very modern is my preference. Perhaps my favorite is the Mercedes-Benz CLS550. Of course probably a "little" over Kex's limit and certainly far, far above mine ...

...

[topspeed]

That's a nice looking little car. I'd question how those low-profile tires would fare in the snow though. Those are aftermarket wheels and tires. It comes standard with normal all season tires. I used this pic because the only other pics I could find were HUGE. Google the Compass and you'll see the normal wheel/tire package


The down-side of leasing (in my experience) is that you really don't want to spend the money to buy snow tires for a car that you're only gonna own for three or four years. Unless, of course, you can work the tires into the lease as part of the deal and the tires get returned with the car at the end. I've yet to find a dealer that would go for that.True. When I have replaced the OEM wheels for aftermarket wheels, I usually will either store the originals until I turn the car in or sell them altogether. The last couple of cars I've leased I sold before the lease end with the aftermarket wheels on them. The profit I made easily covered their cost, but I'll admit this doesn't normally happen with most cars.


Chevy dropping a turbocharger into that HHR???As a matter of fact, yes. This fall the HHR SS bows with a 2.0L turbo 4 making 260hp.