Well, I'm Getting Divorced

[cam]

What can I say, my marriage has broken down. I am soon to be a single HT enthusiast. The soon to be ex says I can keep all of the HT system, as long as she gets the leather couch and love seat and the queen size bed, after that, 50 50 for everything else and I said deal. It turns out that we are being very peaceful with this process which is great. We have decided to right down all the arrangements together so everything is agreed on and then just have the lawyers document it, have us sign it and nothing will be dragged out.

I have been with this women since Oct 93, we got married in July 98 and have 1 son who was born in July 99. Even though we have agreed on getting a divorce, I just can't help being very upset. I don't know if I'm upset for my son, myself or both. Just out of the blue I start to break down. I start to compose myself almost right away but I know I'm not going to beable to keep it up forever. Once my house is sold, my next chapter of my life will start. At 35, I don't know where to start, but I know I will have to be strong for my son, who's life is being completely torn apart.

I just hope all this is worth it. I hope I can find the happiness that I haven't had in a long time and I hope my soon to be ex finds it too.

[GMichael]

Oh Cam, I am so sorry to read this. When you posted the pics of you two I thought, "now there's a happy couple." It sucks when these things happen. I wish all three of you hope and happiness. Maybe something better is waiting around the next corner.

I restarted my life at 41 when I married my little wifey. 3 years earlier my then fiancée decided that marrying my best friend would be more fun for her. I should really call them both to thank them. It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

[L.J.]

Sorry dude! I hope everything stays peaceful between you and your wife. It will be so much better for your son that way. The wife and I had some issues a few years ago but we decided to try and make it work. Things are still tough, but there has been alot of improvement. I'm sorry your situation was not similar to mine. I guess sometimes splitting up is the only option. I hope everthing works out smoothly and wish you all the best.

[audio amateur]

Sorry to hear it. What a horrible thing. Breaking up with a girl is hard enough sometimes. I can't imagine how a divorce must be. I'll hold you in my thoughts;)

[JohnMichael]

Cam I am so sorry. You know we are all here for you. This must be devastating and you need to let the pain out. As others have said this might lead you to a greater happiness. In the mean time keep your good friends close and lean on them. This is the time you need people most.

[cam]

Oh Cam, I am so sorry to read this. When you posted the pics of you two I thought, "now there's a happy couple." It sucks when these things happen. I wish all three of you hope and happiness. Maybe something better is waiting around the next corner.

I restarted my life at 41 when I married my little wifey. 3 years earlier my then fiancée decided that marrying my best friend would be more fun for her. I should really call them both to thank them. It's the best thing that ever happened to me.Looks can be deceiving when your just looking at a picture. But I will say, those were happier days, and those pics were only 2 years ago.

[cam]

Sorry dude! I hope everything stays peaceful between you and your wife. It will be so much better for your son that way. The wife and I had some issues a few years ago but we decided to try and make it work. Things are still tough, but there has been alot of improvement. I'm sorry your situation was not similar to mine. I guess sometimes splitting up is the only option. I hope everthing works out smoothly and wish you all the best.
We are both staying peaceful for the sake of our son and also we don't want the lawyers to soak up the left over money from the sale of our home. Working it out is not an option anymore. The wife has a 15 year old from a previous relationship when she was only 16. As time went on, things got worse. Too much has been said by all to patch things up. I think that the wife and step daughter got too jelious over time of my son. I just can't help that though. My son means everything to me.

[cam]

Sorry to hear it. What a horrible thing. Breaking up with a girl is hard enough sometimes. I can't imagine how a divorce must be. I'll hold you in my thoughts;)Even though we both want this divorce, you're right, it is hard. It is very upsetting. We both don't hate each other, but we both know that staying together is just not in our future.

[Feanor]

But I'm glad you shared it with us. I guess sometime things have to end, but it doesn't make it easy.

I recognized that I'm very lucky that I have been married to my wife for 30 years and it's still going strong. Indeed, we are both flawed people and get exasperated with each other quite regularly; fortunately we need each other and recognized the fact.

[cam]

Cam I am so sorry. You know we are all here for you. This must be devastating and you need to let the pain out. As others have said this might lead you to a greater happiness. In the mean time keep your good friends close and lean on them. This is the time you need people most.You hit the nail right on the head. I didn't post this because I wanted sympathy, I did it because I need to talk to people. And your right, I am devastated. I never would have thought that wanting a divorce would be soooo upsetting. We both want it but it really feels like I'm being dumped. I look at my son and I start to lose it. I think I'm feeling the pain for him. All he has ever known is his Mom and Dad are together. When we moved into this new house three years ago, I told him that he was going to grow up in this neighbourhood from start to finish, something I never got to do as a kid (7 schools). Well all he is getting is pre-school, kindergarten, and grade 1. I am desperately going to try and get a basement suite to rent in this area for him.

[cam]

But I'm glad you shared it with us. I guess sometime things have to end, but it doesn't make it easy.

I recognized that I'm very lucky that I have been married to my wife for 30 years and it's still going strong. Indeed, we are both flawed people and get exasperated with each other quite regularly; fortunately we need each other and recognized the fact.You're right, it's not easy to break up, it's just harder to stay together. I wouldn't call it luck that you guys have stayed together for 30 years. I call it fate or destiny. You guys are a match. I just hope that one day, I can have some of the everlasting happiness that people have with a special somebody one day.

[cam]

I may not post much here anymore, but out of all the sites that I am a member to, this is the only site I felt I could talk about this. Thanks Guys!

[ericl]

Oh man, Cam, I'm so sorry to hear it. That's rough. I had a terrible time when i broke up with my girl of 6 years, we weren't married but we lived together for many years and it was by far the longest and most serious relationship of my life. It was the most difficult experience of my adult life.

I know a break up doesn't compare to a divorce from a marriage as long as yours, but my only advice is to look at this as an opportunity to grow as a person. Pursue new hobbies, move, take a class, go to counseling, whatever.. whatever you can do to spice up your life to take your mind off the old routine or anything that will remind you of the old days. I had to move out of my house and town.. too many memories tied up there. oh yeah, I drank A LOT, but obviously i don't recommend that. if you don't exercise, start, and if you do, do it MORE. great for taking your mind of things and it doesn't hurt to get in better shape for the ladies..

Good Luck Bro,
eric

[Mr Peabody]

Camm, you said you all were happy just a couple years ago, is there any chance that you two can talk to see where things got off track and try to put your marriage back together? It sounds like there is still good communication. What would happen if you and her decided to take divorce off the table as an option?

Divorce is the much easier way out. That's why the divorce rate is so high these days. People cannot turn love on and off. If a couple love each other enough to make a commitment of marriage, work through the hard times. I'd rather sleep with my wife than my pride. I've been married for over 20 years and there's been nights my pride and I slept on the sofa. We've had some really bad fights and problems and probably will again. The hardest thing to control is ones tongue. I wish I could tell you what kept us together, maybe it was like Feanor, we know we need each other, maybe deep down under the anger we knew we really loved one another and wasn't going any where. It's good to have some one you can depend on. Most of the time fights are over the dumbest or un-important things in the big picture.

I mean, you know your own life and heart, you don't need to spill what's up here for all to read, but you all give it some more thought, OK? Why don't you each try writing what makes you unhappy in the marriage, maybe make a suggestion as to what could be done about it, then exchange them. Or, write just what makes you all unhappy and leave it up to the other to suggest a resolution. If you can sit down to hammer out a divorce settlement, you can do this. But it will take you both wanting to save the marriage.

I sincerely hope the best for you. My intent was not to offend.

[cam]

Oh man, Cam, I'm so sorry to hear it. That's rough. I had a terrible time when i broke up with my girl of 6 years, we weren't married but we lived together for many years and it was by far the longest and most serious relationship of my life. It was the most difficult experience of my adult life.

I know a break up doesn't compare to a divorce from a marriage as long as yours, but my only advice is to look at this as an opportunity to grow as a person. Pursue new hobbies, move, take a class, go to counseling, whatever.. whatever you can do to spice up your life to take your mind off the old routine or anything that will remind you of the old days. I had to move out of my house and town.. too many memories tied up there. oh yeah, I drank A LOT, but obviously i don't recommend that. if you don't exercise, start, and if you do, do it MORE. great for taking your mind of things and it doesn't hurt to get in better shape for the ladies..

Good Luck Bro,
eric
Luckily for me, drinking is the last thing on my mind. It's kind of strange because I really enjoy drinking a few rye and cokes every Friday. I know that my state of mind and alcohol would not mix very well right now so I don't even bother. I have to be very mindfull of what my son thinks about me through these trying times. I don't want him looking back at this time and remembering his Dad being a drunk blubbering fool.

[PAT.P]

Cam :confused5: I been busy on other site and come back to this.So sorry to hear the news .I've been divorced also in the past,we did a mutual agreement at the time.It was very hard for me to tell the childrens I was leaving at the time.I took them every weekend and loved it.Stayed single for 5years ,saved for a downpayment and met on the day of my move the most wonderfull woman .She is also the best stepmother my childrens could ever have.Take care!

[cam]

Camm, you said you all were happy just a couple years ago, is there any chance that you two can talk to see where things got off track and try to put your marriage back together? It sounds like there is still good communication. What would happen if you and her decided to take divorce off the table as an option?

Divorce is the much easier way out. That's why the divorce rate is so high these days. People cannot turn love on and off. If a couple love each other enough to make a commitment of marriage, work through the hard times. I'd rather sleep with my wife than my pride. I've been married for over 20 years and there's been nights my pride and I slept on the sofa. We've had some really bad fights and problems and probably will again. The hardest thing to control is ones tongue. I wish I could tell you what kept us together, maybe it was like Feanor, we know we need each other, maybe deep down under the anger we knew we really loved one another and wasn't going any where. It's good to have some one you can depend on. Most of the time fights are over the dumbest or un-important things in the big picture.

I mean, you know your own life and heart, you don't need to spill what's up here for all to read, but you all give it some more thought, OK? Why don't you each try writing what makes you unhappy in the marriage, maybe make a suggestion as to what could be done about it, then exchange them. Or, write just what makes you all unhappy and leave it up to the other to suggest a resolution. If you can sit down to hammer out a divorce settlement, you can do this. But it will take you both wanting to save the marriage.

I sincerely hope the best for you. My intent was not to offend.
All the communication for saving this marriage is too late. The step daughter, in my opinion, has put a permanent wedge between my wife and me. I would try to tell my wife about some of the things going on but it was either not believed or it just fell on deaf ears.

The best way I can describe it is, I get dished out a plate of bull$hit over and over year in and year out and then I decide to serve the same plate back. And then it is not about what is being said to me, it's about what I said in response. My wife never backed me up or stood at my side. No support at all. This should have been nipped in the but years ago when it started, and if you don't parent a child firmly in the beginning, you then get where I am now.

[cam]

Cam :confused5: I been busy on other site and come back to this.So sorry to hear the news .I've been divorced also in the past,we did a mutual agreement at the time.It was very hard for me to tell the childrens I was leaving at the time.I took them every weekend and loved it.Stayed single for 5years ,saved for a downpayment and met on the day of my move the most wonderfull woman .She is also the best stepmother my childrens could ever have.Take care!Second times a charm then. If I have to be single for 5 years to meet someone special, then that's just what I will do. My head is held low today, I only hope I can hold it up high in the future. This is definetly the lowest point in my life right now.

[PAT.P]

Second times a charm then. If I have to be single for 5 years to meet someone special, then that's just what I will do. My head is held low today, I only hope I can hold it up high in the future. This is definetly the lowest point in my life right now.I set a goal for myself to buy my first home and nothing was going to stop me.I was'nt looking for anybody ,my children were my life.There a path in life for all of us ,to find it is to stumble and get up .Life is a rollercoaster ,there the high and the lows.You have a son in all of this ,thats important.He needs you as much as you need him.Now dont make me cry:sad:

[likeitloud]

Really, Really sorry man, I went through it once at your age with a son, and it was
tough going for awhile, In my case nothing earth shattering happened (affairs or
drinking) nothing that cut and dry. We just grew apart, and that made it much
harder, there was nothing I could grab onto, and say "I'll fix this" and everything
will be cool. Anyway, I'm sure you have family support, without my family, I'd
be going to AA meetings to this day, and you always have us at AR to get
you through. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail/PM anytime you need to talk.
You WILL get past this. Take it easy.

[Justlisten2]

Cam, sorry to read of your impending divorce, but things could alwats be worse.....you could have 'stayed the course'. :(

I've been with my woman since April '83, and at 46 years of age, I wish I had the balls to walk away when I was 35 years old. I'm still suffering from the 'it's cheaper to keep 'er' mentality.

I don't know for sure that life would be better today had I walked out back then, but it is difficult to imagine that it would have been worse. :ihih:

Best of luck with your future, look ahead, not back. :)

[cam]

Really, Really sorry man, I went through it once at your age with a son, and it was
tough going for awhile, In my case nothing earth shattering happened (affairs or
drinking) nothing that cut and dry. We just grew apart, and that made it much
harder, there was nothing I could grab onto, and say "I'll fix this" and everything
will be cool. Anyway, I'm sure you have family support, without my family, I'd
be going to AA meetings to this day, and you always have us at AR to get
you through. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail/PM anytime you need to talk.
You WILL get past this. Take it easy.I don't like to hear about hardships people have, having said that, I'm glad you shared that with me, it makes me feel I'm not alone. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one. Thank you.

[cam]

Cam, sorry to read of your impending divorce, but things could alwats be worse.....you could have 'stayed the course'. :(

I've been with my woman since April '83, and at 46 years of age, I wish I had the balls to walk away when I was 35 years old. I'm still suffering from the 'it's cheaper to keep 'er' mentality.

I don't know for sure that life would be better today had I walked out back then, but it is difficult to imagine that it would have been worse. :ihih:

Best of luck with your future, look ahead, not back. :)It is hard to break up. My thinking right now is that it is harder to stay together. I have thought about taking this hard path but only finding out that I wasted more years of my life. I certainly wouldn't want to try only to be miserable and having to start over in my 40's or 50's.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't like to hear about hardships people have, having said that, I'm glad you shared that with me, it makes me feel I'm not alone. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one. Thank you.

You are definately not alone. I have a friend who was in almost the exact same situation. He moved from Nova Scotia to Ontario to be with a woman he met. They were both divorced with children. Bill left his behind in NS (they were adults), Francie's lived with their father in Quebec (they were still children). Bill and Francie did not marry but they lived together for 6 years in total.

She decided that she needed to move to Quebec to be closer to her children. He went with her.

Once in Montreal, her 15-yr-old daughter decided to live with Mom. She moved into their house and basically took over. Bill paid for half of everything, including the daughter's keep. The daughter was mean. She did everything that she could to cause fights between Bill and Francie. Francie wouldn't take any responsibility for her daughters actions and it got to the point where all they did was fight....about Francie's daughter.

Eventually, there was so much resentment that the relationship couldn't be saved. They waited too long to break up and it was not friendly. They sold the house, and Bill moved back to Toronto.

The good news is that after a couple of months of being alone and miserable, Bill met another woman. They are now living together and I've never seen Bill happier.

I know that things are tough now. But they'll get better. And it's better for your son to have two happy parents living apart than two miserable parents living together.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Second times a charm then. If I have to be single for 5 years to meet someone special, then that's just what I will do. My head is held low today, I only hope I can hold it up high in the future. This is definetly the lowest point in my life right now.

Well Cam, hold your head up buddy, you gave it a try and got a son out of it. What a treasure. At least your wife didn't die when your marriage was going well, and getting better. That happened to me.

This may sound cold and insenstive, but its real. Sometimes when things are just not working out, for the GOOD of the children its best to split up. It is extremely stressful for children to see their parents disagreeing, and even worse on the parties involved. Divorce is never good, but persistant and consistant fighting and disagreeing is far worse because it is protracted pain with no end in sight. I hate divorce, I am a product of it. However, I am glad that my parents did split up, because the idea of them going at it until I left the house to go out on my own would have been excrutiating for me to bare. My twin brother and I were far better off with them apart.

As Eric stated, this is an opportunity to rediscover yourself, challenge yourself, redefine yourself, and strengthen the bond between you and your son. I thank God for my twin boys, they literally pulled me out of the dolldrums and a deep depression. I didn't eat for nearly two weeks, and had gotten so skinny that if you put a ruler on my tongue, I would have been a zipper in a pair of pants. My wife's death made my boys and I so tight that you couldn't fit a piece of dental floss between us. There is always, and I mean always a silver lining behind a dark cloud. I discovered I had a love for running and lifting weights. Who would have thunk that these discovered loves would get me so much attention from the opposite sex. I am single now, but it sure in the heck doesn't have to be that way with all of the attention I am getting. Trust me, it does get better over time. If you are strong and resilent, you will come out of this a better man. Word of advice, keep yourself together and civil with the soon to be ex, it is much better on your son that way.

Good luck to you brudda, you have people here who will give you some moral support and concerned ears, and that makes you a lucky man.

I love audioreview........you guys are just the best!

[cam]

You are definately not alone. I have a friend who was in almost the exact same situation. He moved from Nova Scotia to Ontario to be with a woman he met. They were both divorced with children. Bill left his behind in NS (they were adults), Francie's lived with their father in Quebec (they were still children). Bill and Francie did not marry but they lived together for 6 years in total.

She decided that she needed to move to Quebec to be closer to her children. He went with her.

Once in Montreal, her 15-yr-old daughter decided to live with Mom. She moved into their house and basically took over. Bill paid for half of everything, including the daughter's keep. The daughter was mean. She did everything that she could to cause fights between Bill and Francie. Francie wouldn't take any responsibility for her daughters actions and it got to the point where all they did was fight....about Francie's daughter.

Eventually, there was so much resentment that the relationship couldn't be saved. They waited too long to break up and it was not friendly. They sold the house, and Bill moved back to Toronto.

The good news is that after a couple of months of being alone and miserable, Bill met another woman. They are now living together and I've never seen Bill happier.

I know that things are tough now. But they'll get better. And it's better for your son to have two happy parents living apart than two miserable parents living together.
Yep, that does sound like my situation. I just could not bare to wait another 4-6 years for the step-daughter to move out just to see if me and my wife would then be happier. Possibly wasting that many more years of my life just isn't that appealing.

[cam]

Well Cam, hold your head up buddy, you gave it a try and got a son out of it. What a treasure. At least your wife didn't die when your marriage was going well, and getting better. That happened to me.

This may sound cold and insenstive, but its real. Sometimes when things are just not working out, for the GOOD of the children its best to split up. It is extremely stressful for children to see their parents disagreeing, and even worse on the parties involved. Divorce is never good, but persistant and consistant fighting and disagreeing is far worse because it is protracted pain with no end in sight. I hate divorce, I am a product of it. However, I am glad that my parents did split up, because the idea of them going at it until I left the house to go out on my own would have been excrutiating for me to bare. My twin brother and I were far better off with them apart.

As Eric stated, this is an opportunity to rediscover yourself, challenge yourself, redefine yourself, and strengthen the bond between you and your son. I thank God for my twin boys, they literally pulled me out of the dolldrums and a deep depression. I didn't eat for nearly two weeks, and had gotten so skinny that if you put a ruler on my tongue, I would have been a zipper in a pair of pants. My wife's death made my boys and I so tight that you couldn't fit a piece of dental floss between us. There is always, and I mean always a silver lining behind a dark cloud. I discovered I had a love for running and lifting weights. Who would have thunk that these discovered loves would get me so much attention from the opposite sex. I am single now, but it sure in the heck doesn't have to be that way with all of the attention I am getting. Trust me, it does get better over time. If you are strong and resilent, you will come out of this a better man. Word of advice, keep yourself together and civil with the soon to be ex, it is much better on your son that way.

Good luck to you brudda, you have people here who will give you some moral support and concerned ears, and that makes you a lucky man.

I love audioreview........you guys are just the best!
You are right, my son is a treasure. Without him I would be nothing. I do have my Parents, and sisters and many many other family members, but my son is everything. I am really sorry about your wife's death and I do know how important your son's mean to you. You were lucky to have them through your trying time, likewise with me and my son. I know that everything happens for the best, it's just hard to imagine this right now. My mind is not clear and I feel like I'm in a terrible funk. I guess this is what people go through with depression. Once my house is sold and I get my cut, which is a considerable amount, I guess then and only then can I hope that my mind clears up. It's amazing how our brains can have such a grip on our (everything).

[JSE]

Hey Cam, sorry to hear the news of your divorce. I can't begin to imagine what your going through but just remember to focus on your son. Marriages can unfortunately come and go but parenthood is forever. It sounds like your keeping it civil which will help your son tremendously. Two young girls that my wife and I helped bring up when their mother and father divorced went through emotional hell when their father made the divorce as nasty as he could just to spite my wife's best friend and mother of the girls. We took the kids away for many weekends and helped out as much as we could to try and get them out of the warzone. The father knows better than to ever be within sight of me at this point. Even if you have to bite your tongue and hold back your feelings sometimes, just do it for your son. It will pay off in the end and your son will thank you for it one day. When things start to get you down just remember him and be a geat Dad.

[cam]

Hey Cam, sorry to hear the news of your divorce. I can't begin to imagine what your going through but just remember to focus on your son. Marriages can unfortunately come and go but parenthood is forever. It sounds like your keeping it civil which will help your son tremendously. Two young girls that my wife and I helped bring up when their mother and father divorced went through emotional hell when their father made the divorce as nasty as he could just to spite my wife's best friend and mother of the girls. We took the kids away for many weekends and helped out as much as we could to try and get them out of the warzone. The father knows better than to ever be within sight of me at this point. Even if you have to bite your tongue and hold back your feelings sometimes, just do it for your son. It will pay off in the end and your son will thank you for it one day. When things start to get you down just remember him and be a geat Dad.Thanks for the advice about biting your tongue. I forgot that about 10 min. ago. I will remember from now on.

[shokhead]

Bummer. My parents got divorced and when my dads friend backed out,i had to be the witness. At 13 i had to go on the stand and tell all that my mon was a bum. Thats what the lawyer told me i had to say so they could get this done. Watchout for the kid but be truthfull and even if its true,dont badmouth the mom.

[dean_martin]

Dang, Cam. I just noticed your post. My first wife and I divorced when my son was about 18mos. old. We were both young, but she wasn't ready to act like an adult. I did get custody of our son. It hurt for a long time. After 6 years, I convinced myself that being a bachelor was great and the best situation for me. But wouldn't you know it, as soon as I accepted and started enjoying being single, BOOM, I met my present wife.

In my second marriage, we've had our ups and downs primarily because we lived by ourselves for so long after our first marriages. Each of us had a boy from our former marriages. Blending the family together has been tough. "Equal treatment" of our sons is the issue that comes up the most. My son is my parents' first grandson. They go the extra mile for him. It becomes my job at home to even things out. We have been able to work through the equal treatment issues with minimal impact on the boys though. I think that's because our goals are the same even though we do have to deal with petty jealousies and emotions that unfortunately are part of being human.

Anyhow, as soon as you accept and start enjoying the single life, WATCH OUT!

[EFE Speakers]

Cam,
I also am sorry to hear about your separation. Being married for 34 years and going through many ups and downs myself, I can assure you that it is not something easy to go through.

I always counsel couples to give it some time before acting too hastily, because many times they just need more time to think about the outcome, and the alternitive may not be any better though they think it might be. Usually a self examination on both spouses part in the marriage can find things that need to be changed and when they do so, everything usually works out for the better, especially if there is still a remnant of love left.

As another poster stated, it is easier to quit and divorce than to work it out, but when couples do work it out and overcome the hurdles of life, it usually makes them stronger. Sometimes absence does make the heart grow fonder and it gives us time to think about things we should have done or said to our spouse or loved one.

Take some time, think about how many years you've both given to each other and agree to a trial seperation if you must, perhaps it will heal some hard feelings that have built up. I recommend some good marriage counselling before calling it quits but I know many feel it won't do any good. If 13 years of togetherness means anything, it's worth a try.

In His service,
Ed Frias
EFE Speakers

[GooseWashington]

I feel sorry about you. Divorcing is sucks.

[HardissonHard]

Well, if you are getting a divorce then it means that you have a chance now of meeting a better person and it's time to start dating again. If you ever wanted to try online dating then I can recommend you this website https://www.100bestdatingsites.org/nerd-dating-sites/. Here you can read a lot of useful reviews, for example in this article you will find out more about nerd dating sites.

[Lilo1]

Hello there! Thank you for informative post!

[RebLinn]

Thank you. Personal experience is always a strong argument for those who find themselves in such a situation. I myself saw what happens between the two exes after the start of the divorce. I thought and decided that marriage is not what I am striving for. There is also an easier relationship, try this (https://www.maturetenders.com/dating-over-30.html). I talk a lot on the dating site now and I am sure that there are those who also do not want to be serious ..