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07-24-2006, 04:15 PM
Sugestion pls. Room 8 x 6.5 ft and will moving to 8 x 12 ft.
Movie 30%, Music 70% Jazz & Pop the most, sometimes HipHop & R&B.

Wich one should I go for & wich the most worth one?

8" PSB - $220
8" B&W ASW-300 - $300
10" Mordaunt Short MS309 - $270
10" Wharfedale SW-150 - $315
10" PSB - $380
10" Velodyne CHT-10R - $510
12" Klipsch KSW-12 - $295
12" Velodyne CHT-12R - $600

Wich the best for music?

Is it worth for CHT-12R rather than KSW-12 for double price more?
How the KSW-12 sound like compare to CHT-12R (if anyone ever heard both)?
Is it worth $100 more from CHT-10R to CHT-12R?


07-24-2006, 10:28 PM
I have the CHT-10 and I think it's a good sub. I choose this sub over the 12" cause it was cheaper and I thought that a 10" would be better for music since it should have a quicker response than the 12". Also I am more interested in music than movies like you. If I was more into movies than I probably would have went with a 12". Even so the 10" is more than enough bass for my room which is quite abit bigger than yours. Plus I can set my front towers to large if I want more bass.
With your small room I would be conserned that a 10" sub might be overwhelming. And perhaps an 8" sub would be more appropriate.
Maybe other sub experts will weigh in with their opinions.

07-25-2006, 03:36 AM
In a small room mostly used for music and not home theater, I would strongly recommend a sealed subwoofer.
I'm not aware of many below $600 that are any good, but the Dayton Titanic MKIII kits are excellent, perform well above commercial offerings costing much, much more...Do search on Titanic in the forums, you'lll only see raving reviews.
Free shipping to boot!!!

I built the 12" unit for my parents (it's incredibly easy) and compared it to my old Paradigm PW-2200, which sold for $800. The Paradigm played a bit lower, but it was easy to tell it was very outclassed at delivering music. The Dayton was was much tighter, punchier, and faster - literally, it wasn't as sloppy sounding in the low notes - I think the Paradigm might have played a bit louder, but we're splitting hairs here.
Not that the Paradigm was bad, it's a decent sub for what it is, just limited by its design.
Sealed subs generally have a few technical advantages which help them perform better for music at the expense of a few low Hz at the bottom end (which fall outside 99% of the music spectrum).
Might be a good match for you.

N. Abstentia
07-25-2006, 06:56 AM
Add the Outlaw Audio subs to your list...near the top :)

The Tahitijack
08-04-2006, 10:36 AM
A bit beyond your budget but one to consider at $800 is the Velodyne MiniVee (8" and 1,000 watts). Its very small like Sunfire's True and D series. Just remember as you down in size you'll need more wattage.

08-04-2006, 11:25 AM
They are not sealed, but here's a couple more options SVS PB10-NSD:

I ordered this for a friend (it hasn't arrived yet), but the online reviews are very positive. And it's from SVS - they know what they're doing. A second option is the Hsu VTF-2. Lots of people rave about this one, although I'm not as familiar with Hsu.


What's with the pic change. After all the negative publicity around U-2, I'm a bit surprised.

08-04-2006, 01:26 PM
I'll second N. Ab's recommendation. Outlaw's Hsu-designed subs have great sound, and, since they don't have the middleman taking his cut, great value.

audio amateur
08-04-2006, 01:48 PM
id not go for the PB-10 NSD but its younger sibling the new PB-12 NSD (12in woof)
Im sure its got great value for money and massive punch and depth. Beware though it's quite big.

08-04-2006, 04:49 PM
For your size room, I would also recommend going with a sealed sub as Kex suggests. With wall dimensions that short, you're going to get a tremendous amount of low frequency reinforcement caused by the room gain effect that small rooms create. A ported sub with a lot of low end extension like the SVS is likely to overwhelm everything else on your system because the boundary gain will start at a higher frequency in your room than in a larger room, and result in a huge bass boost in the extreme lows. That might sound like a good thing, but it's not because it trades off bass quality and balance for more quantity and a boomier and more uneven sounding bass.

With a 8'x12' room, you probably won't need more than the 8" Martin Logan Dynamo or the 10" Rocket ULW-10 to get a lot of bass well into the mid-20 Hz range. These are both sealed subs with list prices right around the $500 mark. Sealed subs work better with small rooms because their low end drop off occurs at about the same rate that the room boundary gain reinforces the low frequencies. This means that the room acoustics will create a more extended bass without simultaneously creating a huge boomy peak like a small room would with a good ported sub.

With a small room I would also highly recommend using a parametric equalizer because the low frequency interactions will probably produce at least one major peak that needs to be dialed down. The Rocket sub comes with one parametric filter built into the amp, and that feature will definitely come in handy.

08-07-2006, 12:18 PM
A quick question on the Outlaw sub. I'm a big fan of Outlaw (have several components), but I was wondering if they are really in the sub-game. I know Dr. Hsu designed it and all, but I've also read that he didn't want it to compete too directly with his own line of subs. Would it be fair to say this sub is good, but not quite a true Hsu? For example I've read that it its a bit loose sounding / lacks a bit of tightness (Audiohollics, if I remember right). Also, the LFM-2 (which I presume is what we are discussing) has a 4+ dB dip in the 45Hz. range. Now, I know it's only $300, so that may be a worthy trade-off but it may just be one of those details that will keep nagging at you from behind over time. Since Spongebob was interested in 70% music, this may be more than he's willing to tollerate.

Anyhow, I don't mean to disrespect Outlaw or Hsu in any way, I was just wondering...

08-07-2006, 02:41 PM
I had the same reservations about the Outlaw subs until I bought the LFM-1. I figured that, musically, It would be a step down from the Energy ES-8. You know, theoretically faster 8" woofer, as opposed to the 12" woofer in the LFM-1. I thought that I would have to settle for a looser, less accurate bottom end to get the bone-crushing effects I craved on movies.

Surprise, surprise! The Outlaw's pitch definition and overall tightness on the bottom exceeds that of the 8" Energy's. It has improved my music listening experience in every respect. I can now hear the difference between the natural wood of a stand-up bass as opposed to the amplified sound of an electric one. I can tell if the drummer's bass drum has the front skin on or off. And, the pitch definition of differently tuned tympanies is solid and unmistakable.

To be fair, I don't know how much of this improvement can be attributed to the LFM-1, and how much has to do with the new room in which it is housed. However, I have tried the Energy by itself in the new digs and the difference is still very noticable.

Is it better than a Hsu? Dunno. But it sure is better than a well regarded and reviewed 8" sub with a 100 watt Mosfet amplifier. At least, better in every respect that matters to me.

08-07-2006, 07:15 PM
This may be out of your budget but this Martin Logan Grotto is on sale at Audiogon right now. It sounds awesome for the price. It is the cleanest sounding of all those mentioned above.