Have a room and $30k need advice.

[Slappi]

Hey guys!

I just moved into my new house and I have a Media Room but I have no idea what to do with it. I know you guys are extremely knowledgeable about this stuff and I was wondering if some of you could spare a few moments to advise me on just about everything. :)

The room is 24ft. x 12ft. and is wired for 7.1 with the 4 rears wired into the ceiling. I also have a Proj prewired but was wired with component cabling. The screen will be on a far 12ft. wall (has to be this way for other reasons). The room also has one step down about halfway through the room.

I have a $30,000 budget for everything (HT components, wiring, builtins, furniture, speakers etc.)

How would some of you guys set this room up and what exactly would you buy for the Speakers, wiring and components etc?

Thanks!!

Slappi

[Florian]

Nothing against this forum, but this is not the right one for it....

Go here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

They have sections and systems in all price ranges.

Enjoy

[bobsticks]

Hey Slappi,
I've got some issues to attend to, but in an hour or so I can devote a little time to this. I'm sure there are a few around that will chime in, many if not most will be more knowledgeable than I. In the meantime, let me ask you to think about these questions so we can get to specifics:

1) How many windows and doors are there to contend with?
2) Is this a full-time family area? This will impact decor, trust me.
3) How handy are you? At some point you'll probably want to budget for some help.
4) Given the 24 feet, do you want to construct two-tiered seating?And, if so, are you
capable of this on your own?
5) How important is music?
6) What kind of music do you and the family listen to?
7) Are you completely against having additional wiring done for the projector?
8) Do you want to involve your PC in this?

Later

[Slappi]

Nothing against this forum, but this is not the right one for it....

Go here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

They have sections and systems in all price ranges.

Enjoy


Hey thanks for the site. So much information!! :idea:

[Slappi]

Hey Slappi,
I've got some issues to attend to, but in an hour or so I can devote a little time to this. I'm sure there are a few around that will chime in, many if not most will be more knowledgeable than I. In the meantime, let me ask you to think about these questions so we can get to specifics:

1) How many windows and doors are there to contend with?

Two small windows both shuttered in with almost no light passing through.

2) Is this a full-time family area? This will impact decor, trust me.

Nope it will be purely for HT.

3) How handy are you? At some point you'll probably want to budget for some help.

LOL I am a fast learner but I will definitely need some help.

4) Given the 24 feet, do you want to construct two-tiered seating?And, if so, are you
capable of this on your own?

The room was built with 2-tiered seating already.

5) How important is music?

Not at all.

6) What kind of music do you and the family listen to?

If we do it is a huge range but I really want this room to be 100% Movies and such.

7) Are you completely against having additional wiring done for the projector?

Not at all.

8) Do you want to involve your PC in this?

Possibly. What does a PC do for HT?

Later


Hey thanks again for your time!

[jocko_nc]

Small point of contention: I wouldn't go shopping with a "$30K budget"...

IMO, you may end up with the system that adds up to $30K that is what the seller wanted to sell you, that which is best for him. (puts the most margin in the seller's pocket.) Figure out what you want, then shop it. Don't give a price target, be willing to pay for the value provided. You know what you want to spend in the end, but you won't get cornered in the process. It costs too much, reconfigure. If you have extra, sweet. Ask questions and read up. Please don't spend a lot on cables. No Bose.

You should get plenty of good component recommendations. Have fun!

jocko

[JoeE SP9]

If you can find an AV enthusiast near where you live you should talk to them. Unless you leave in West H**l there should be someone close. Also go check out whatever the local AV retailers have. Listen to everything you can. Make sure whatever you buy makes you happy, not someone else. You can get lots of advice here but the room layout is something we would need to know. A diagram in an attachment would be best. Finding someone local to you with some experience and knowledge will be the best help you can get.:cool:

[Slappi]

Small point of contention: I wouldn't go shopping with a "$30K budget"...

IMO, you may end up with the system that adds up to $30K that is what the seller wanted to sell you, that which is best for him. (puts the most margin in the seller's pocket.) Figure out what you want, then shop it. Don't give a price target, be willing to pay for the value provided. You know what you want to spend in the end, but you won't get cornered in the process. It costs too much, reconfigure. If you have extra, sweet. Ask questions and read up. Please don't spend a lot on cables. No Bose.

You should get plenty of good component recommendations. Have fun!

jocko


Yah I hear what you're saying. I am going to do a lot of research over the next few months so I don't get ripped off. I want to be able to say this is what I want and how much can you do it for.

[Slappi]

If you can find an AV enthusiast near where you live you should talk to them. Unless you leave in West H**l there should be someone close. Also go check out whatever the local AV retailers have. Listen to everything you can. Make sure whatever you buy makes you happy, not someone else. You can get lots of advice here but the room layout is something we would need to know. A diagram in an attachment would be best. Finding someone local to you with some experience and knowledge will be the best help you can get.:cool:


I tried to attach a diagram i drew up in Word but the file is too big. No matter how small and less detailed I make it it is still too big.

[Florian]

I tried to attach a diagram i drew up in Word but the file is too big. No matter how small and less detailed I make it it is still too big.

Send it to me, and i can host it on my server.

-Flo

[GMichael]

I like the projector route. How is the lighting in your room? Many new projectors out that are kicking butt. LCD's are getting better and DLP's are getting less expensive. Here is a great place for information. http://www.projectorcentral.com/

The Optima HD72 is getting great reviews. http://www.projectorcentral.com/home-theater-multimedia-projectors.htm

[Florian]

From Joe, sponsored by me

http://www.apogeeclub.de/HTRoom.doc

[jc_ufl]

Florian the link is not working...

First things first, you need to decide how much of your budget will be devoted to the HT equipment and how much will be devoted to decor.

I know you said you needed furniture, does the room need to be carpeted? Painted? Are you planning on sound proofing this room? Some of these questions are extremely important and will lead you into your research. Hiring a custom installer or expert in your area wouldn't be a bad idea for a large project like this, but it can be done by yourself.

I am currently working on my own media room, but it is much larger then your dimensions and I am including a wet bar and poker table. I am doing this on a 40k budget, so its very possible to stay within your 30k budget and develop an amazing media room, dont let anyone tell you its not.

I will try to help and answer questions as best as I can. Let me know how you are willing to split up your budget and I can further direct you to some websites and other places to conduct research before spending.

[Florian]

Sure it does, open it with word.

-Flo

[EdwardGein]

It's better to give then receive. I can use the $30,000. Give it to me & you will be blessed for you have given to a person in need. If you use it for yourself, then you will be considered a selfish person by your religion. So I'm thinking of what's best for you & that answer is to give it to me so I can have a $30,000 system & I'll even get new speakers.

[Florian]

will be considered a selfish person by your religion.


??????????

[AVMASTER]

[QUOTE=jocko_nc]Small point of contention: I wouldn't go shopping with a "$30K budget"...

IMO, you may end up with the system that adds up to $30K that is what the seller wanted to sell you, that which is best for him. (puts the most margin in the seller's pocket.) Figure out what you want, then shop it. Don't give a price target, be willing to pay for the value provided. You know what you want to spend in the end, but you won't get cornered in the process.

Imagine walking into a custom A/V shop knowing what you what to do, and your already wired to do it. The salesperson jots down your info and proceeds to show you several demo rooms; each one sounds and looks fantastic.After an hour you're really hyped up and the salesperson suggests putting together a proposal and will e-mail you that night.
You get home, check your email and theres' his proposal for $100,000.00!!!!!
Why the sticker shock? Its the salespersons' job to make money so they will propose the best stuff, why go low when you can start high?So now you say it's too much, redo it, he sends it back $50k less, you say redo it, back it comes $50k less, etc. etc. etc.. Actually this is a wastefull approach but without a set budget to work within can you blame the salesperson for shooting for the stars? Only you know what you're willing to pay and that info should be shared!

[jocko_nc]

I disagree. I try not to buy something with a set budget, at least not one that I share with the seller. I want to see the relative costs and values. I may spend more or less than I had intended, I'll ultimately take what is the best value for the money. Show me what you got and how much it will take to make it happen. Lay out the options and then you negotiate. To do otherwise puts the seller in charge of the process. IMO, if you give someone a "budget", they will spend right up to it, creating the package that is most advantageous to them.

Worst case example: Go into a car dealership, tell the guy you have $500.00 / month to spend on a car payment, and see what kind of deal you get.

The necessary first step is to inform yourself on what is out there and what is possible. Don't waste your time of his. Do your homework. An uninformed shopper never gets a good deal.

jocko

[jocko_nc]

Has anyone else ever tried to sell something to a buyer who would not allow you to define the value proposition to your terms? Professional buyers usually do this, it is a pain in the butt. What suffers are the margins. As a buyer, that is the way to go.

jocko

[jocko_nc]

I guess what I am getting at is that $30K is a lot of money and ought to get you a sch-weeeet setup. Or, on the other hand, it could get you a merely nice setup. The audio will be the most subjective and difficult part. The difference is doing your homework and, possibly, how much margin the seller puts in his pocket.

I'd LOVE to put $30K into some electronics. Fortunately / unfortunately, I have to spend almost that same amount on a boat dock and lift! Oh well, priorities. Did I mention that I am going to shop the hell out of it? Prices are all over the place.

If I had to do it, I'd save a lot of bucks with proven DIY speakers and quality used analog equipment. Towers for mains. Similar-but-smaller center. I'd do similar-again custom built-ins for the rears. DIY subs can be outstanding, I have two of them. Again, you can do a partial built-in which saves on cabinet finishing. For power, a stack of used Adcom 545 and 535's all around. I would make up my own quality wiring as needed. Add a decent AV receiver, you are in business for not a lot on money. The result would rival a system costing 10X. I realize I am a little to the extreme in this regard...

jocko

[Slappi]

Florian the link is not working...

First things first, you need to decide how much of your budget will be devoted to the HT equipment and how much will be devoted to decor.

I know you said you needed furniture, does the room need to be carpeted? Painted? Are you planning on sound proofing this room? Some of these questions are extremely important and will lead you into your research. Hiring a custom installer or expert in your area wouldn't be a bad idea for a large project like this, but it can be done by yourself.

I am currently working on my own media room, but it is much larger then your dimensions and I am including a wet bar and poker table. I am doing this on a 40k budget, so its very possible to stay within your 30k budget and develop an amazing media room, dont let anyone tell you its not.

I will try to help and answer questions as best as I can. Let me know how you are willing to split up your budget and I can further direct you to some websites and other places to conduct research before spending.

The room has nice carpet already. The $30,000 isn't written in stone (Don't tell the wife :) ) Let's say around $15k to 20k for the equiptment/speakers. I would like a built out enclosed area in the front where the screen is going to be. Like something built in with wood. I need a place to house my components. I would like the walls done with lighting and possibly some woodwork. Is it better to have the speakers in the ceiling or on the walls for the surrounds? They wired it into the ceilings but I'm sure thats an easy fix to move to the walls. I would like two rows of seats, one on each level. Maybe something enclosing the projector.


Thanks.

[AVMASTER]

what if Slappi had posted without a budget, would you know where to begin? Providing a set budget saves time, protects you from purchasing more than you need and provides peace of mind in knowing that you got the best you could afford. Your right about doing your homework first however the options can be overwhelming for some and getting the parts to work together seemlessly is not as easy as it may sound; so providing a dealer with as much info as possible ( including a budget ) should be the first step.

[bobsticks]

Random thoughts:
-Good advice so far; keep Flo's AVSforum in mind. That should be a good reference for a lot of the stuff on which we come up short.
-The fact that this basically going to be a movie screening room will save you money, my man. You don't need speakers so sensitive that you can discern which side of the conductor's face snot is running down. Not necessary for your application. Brands to look at would be Klipsch, Def Tech, and maybe even Paradigm. While you don't need to go nuts, you will want some of the higher models from these brands.
-You want a fairly decent receiver. Some brands that get a lot of recs around here are Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha. I'd check out Rotel as well. Whatever it is you'll want to make sure that it has preouts so that you can signal from the receiver to some external amps. This alone will get you a significant upgrade in sound and power.
-You may also need to check the number of vid inputs on the receiver. It is likely that whatever projector you end up with will have a limited number of these, so add up your total number of sources-dvd,hd-dvd,satelite for the big game-you should examine the idea of using your receiver as a video hub as well as a sound processor.
-Leave wiggle room in the budget,screens aren't cheap
-Power amps; maybe a couple of Rotel RMB-1066s. Adcom gets great recs here, as well as Bryston and Parasound.
-Denon's 2910 and Marantz's 8600(?) are universal players that get good press all over. They'll play whatever format you put in 'em and upscale it too.
-I like the look of GMichael's Optoma rec, but I would personally want a projector with hdmi
-Never buy any furniture marketed toward "Home Theater Seating". That's a great way to spend $500 extra each unit on essentially the same chair.
-I agree whole-heartedly with jocko. Lowbid, if you must divulge $$$. Go in at a range of 12-14k for equipment, let him bilk you out of 17k, spend another 10k on paint, lighting,woodwork and custom install, and take the other 3k and go on vacation...

Cheers, good luck, and most of all Have Fun

[Woochifer]

A few suggestions. First, forget about in-ceiling speakers. Those are more designed for crowded rooms that cannot otherwise accommodate conventional speakers. You're using a dedicated room, so you don't need to go with in-ceiling speakers.

As far as how to go about appointing the room, have you consulted with any of the home theater installers in your area? They would be able to give you some idea of how much the contracting work will cost. At that point, you can nail down your equipment budget. Also, you could ask them for referrals on installations that they have already done. Hopefully, you can visit some of the media rooms that they have already built and configured, to get some idea of how each setup sounds.

Keep in mind though that an installed system does not necessarily sound better. I've seen installed systems that were not properly configured, and more designed for looks than performance. Even with top notch equipment, the biggest challenge with a multichannel system is not picking the equipment, but in setting up and calibrating the system properly AND getting the system to integrate properly with the room's acoustical properties.

When picking an installer, see if their installations include room treatments (i.e. corner bass traps, acoustic foam, acoustic panels, etc.) and acoustical testing. IMO, that's a sign that they know what they're doing because the room acoustics are up there with speakers in the degree to which they influence the sound of your system -- much more so than the cabling, choice in amplification, and source components. With your budget, you can afford to focus as much attention to getting the room to sound right as picking the right equipment. All too often, I hear about media rooms that make the entire system sound horrible because they were setup by interior designers or contractors with no consideration whatsoever paid to the acoustics. That's like getting a fancy high performance car, and then fitting the thing with bicycle tires.

[topspeed]

Well, I definitely think you should talk to an authorized installer, if for no other reason than because you are so new to the hobby. Good to hear that you are scheduling a few months to do your research. Smart move.

I'm a "music first" kind of guy, so when I shop for components, sound quality and ultimate resolution are first and foremost. For a strictly HT rig, I would think durability, reliability, and ease of use would be right up there with picture/sound quality. With that in mind, I'd forego the normal hi-fi stuff and go straight for commercial grade pieces. I would also recommend putting a grand or so aside for the inevitable switch to HD-DVD/BluRay sometime down the road. In addition, like Wooch said, ditch the ceiling mounts. You'll be far too limited and most in-wall speakers suck (although they are improving by leaps and bounds).

Source: Commercial Marantz DVD player
Amps: Crown
Projector: JVC DiLA
Screen: Stewart
Wire: Home Depot 12ga
Room Treatments: Do a search on this site for more info and PM our moderator Sir_Terrance (he's a sound engineer).
Room Correction: Behringer
Speakers: Oof. Who knows? Def Tech, Klipsch, Paradigm, Von Schweikert, Thiel...you can chew up the budget on speakers alone, so pick whatever sounds best to you. You'll likely want two subs as well.

Sorry to be so general, but a $30k budget has a ton of possibilities.

Good luck.

[jocko_nc]

Love the Home Depot 12 awg wire recommendation... You could go with Lowes, too.

For long runs of preamp-level signal, I'm using RG-6 quad shield and fittings from Parts Express to built up custom assemblies. They seem to work quite well. Did I mention cost-effective?

Don't let them sell you $4000.00 of MonsterStuff.

jocko

[jocko_nc]

I hope I don't get sued for copyright infringement for that "MonsterStuff" quip...

[jc_ufl]

I think most of the guys have given great advice. Room treatments are essential for good sound and calibration is very important! Hopefully you have a direction in mind to begin your research. Keep us updated with your progress and if you meet with an installer, let us know how it went. Good luck and have fun shopping!

[Grandpaw]

I would like to start out by saying that there are many at this forum that have forgotten more about audio than I know. Having said that I am going to chime in and give you my two cents worth of opinion anyway.

First of all giving a budget to the people on the forum that you are asking for advice from is totally different from giving a salesperson a budget. If you give the salesman a budget that will be his or her's starting point and you will probably here "for this much more you could step up to this system". The object is to get what sutes your needs and to get the most bang for the buck you can get.

1st The way I would approach this project is to give the people here a budget and ask for advice, which you have already done. Then I would do follow up research on the advice you were given.

2nd. I would take several pictures and locate as many professional home theater businesses as possible and show them the pictures, tell them what you are trying to accomplish and ask for different systems that might meet your needs. As you are shown each different level of systems make notes of the differences and what is important to you and come back here for more advice. If they will come out to your house to talk with you first hand so much the better.

I would want it explained to me why each system is better than the other so you could develop some idea what is important to you. In the process of learning about each system I would think you could narrow it down to a few to choose from. At the point you get an idea about what you think might fit your needs come back here and list your choices and ask for further advice.

You may find out that you don't need to spend your entire budget or you may find out that spending a little more will reap big rewards. The only way I can see to find this out is to explore the differences between each level of system. Once you get the basic level of system decided on you can always fine tune it with information you might receive here.

This is how I would go about this kind of project no matter what your budget was, Jeff