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nobody
07-19-2006, 07:03 AM
HmmmmÖ.influential albumÖhow about influential albums where you donít like the influence theyíve had?

Iíll start by nominating an album I actually really like and that was hugely influential, but that has had negative effects, in my estimation, on music in its wake.

Iím talking about Dr. Dreís classic gangsta rap album, The Chronic.

This slice of P-Funk samples took gangsta mainstream and introduced the whole country to Dre and Snoop. Sure, some were already into Dre from NWA, but really it was the Chronic that got the whole country into the act. You couldnít avoid this album if you wanted to, and personally I didnít want to.

But, when the dust cleared what happened? Rap music turned from a genre with variety and fun, where it was OK to do songs about a wide range of topics and where individuality was prized into a genre dominated by a singular style and persona. The gangsta wave had swept through the music industry and labels didnít want nothiní top do with nothiní that wasnít about thugs and hos.

The influence of this album continues today. Rarely does a rap album come out that isnít required to have at least a few songs documenting the MCs ability to shoot Ďem up with the best of Ďem. What happened to the social conscience of Public Enemy as a way of being hard? What happened to Grandmaster Flash? What happened to the party records? I even think early gangsta rap played a vital role in publicizing the desperation of poverty in many communities. But, now, itís just played out grandstanding. Nothing new about talking about your gat and your pimp ride and all the rest of the crap thatís become so formulaic that I canít imagine having to tell one MC from the other based on lyrics alone.

OhÖand the skits. Could we please get a rap album without half a dozen or more lame skits tossed into the mix? Yeah, yeah Snoop had a couple funny jokes on there. That game show bit about the dime bag was funny. But, that doesnít mean every album has to be 30 tacks with 12 of them 30 second sound bites.

OKÖthereís mine. It was huge, it changed the world of music, I loved it. But, damn, now, I wish it had never happened.

Anybody else got something like that?

noddin0ff
07-19-2006, 08:05 AM
Although I've mostly come around to the other side now (for Sade anyway), two that I thought drove music in the wrong direction were Enya: Watermark and Sade: Stronger than Pride. I always thought that they created a whole genre of 'hip' popular music specifically composed for elevators and malls.

bacchanal
07-19-2006, 08:53 AM
I'd have to say Nirvana - Nevermind

I love Nirvana, but there have been many terrible terrible knockoffs over the past decade and a half. Nirvana has had some good influence too, but not much in mainstream music.

3-LockBox
07-19-2006, 06:07 PM
But, when the dust cleared what happened? Rap music turned from a genre with variety and fun, where it was OK to do songs about a wide range of topics and where individuality was prized into a genre dominated by a singular style and persona... Rarely does a rap album come out that isnít required to have at least a few songs documenting the MCs ability to shoot Ďem up with the best of Ďem...now, itís just played out grandstanding. Nothing new about talking about your gat and your pimp ride and all the rest of the crap thatís become so formulaic that I canít imagine having to tell one MC from the other based on lyrics alone

I so completely agree with every bit of that statement (I wonder how much this new genre contributed to violent acts against women) I also hate to listen to a rap album only to hear one rapper airing his/her personal differences with another rapper. Its all a frikken soap-opera now.

Rap is even worse than country music as far as being a revolving door for flavor of the month artists. Now new rap artists are barely a blip on the radar before the next best thing arrives.

3-LockBox
07-19-2006, 06:38 PM
First off, I like Garth Brooks. He is the reason I started listening to country (again) back in the '90s. This was his first really huge album and this is what propelled him into the stratosphere. This album still has a lasting positive effect on country music. The production value on this album is killer, and that was so inmportant in its day since most labels could care less about production back in the day, churning out lazy, tinny sounding 30 minute albums by even the big name acts. This album also introduced country to more serious subject matter like the video for the song Thunder Rolls (woman kills husband in self-defense). This album was also instrumental in re-introducing younger country fans to the 'western swing' aspect of country/western music, an underappreciated genre at this time.

But for all the positives, this album raised expectations at the suit level and taught labels that they could bottle whatever Brooks was doing and steer country music towards bigger than life characters and pretty boys rather than solid talent. As Waylan Jennings had said in an interview in the mid '90s, "Guys like me & Willy would never get a contract now-a-days. Everything's geared toward looks and dance beats. Everybody's got where a black hat."

After Garth Brooks came along and broke every attendance and sales record in C/W music, small beans acts like Clint Black, George Strait, and Reba McEntire were barely tolerated. No wonder McEntire opts to act in sitcoms. And in this youth crazed atmosphere, older acts, and their music, have all but vanished from touring or radio play.

No genre in music craps on its older audiences, its senior performers, and its lineage, worse than C/W in the last ten years. Not even pop is that indifferent. Acts like Johnny Cash had to eschew regular country avenues just to get a recording contract. Loretta Lynn makes a bold album with a rock star yet country radio won't play her stuff. But they can play that Hip Hop-a-long sh!t, like 'Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy' 30 or 40 times a day. How embarrissing and disrespectful.

And to think it might not be like this if No Fences had just sold a modest 5 digit figure like every other country act of its day.

MindGoneHaywire
07-19-2006, 07:39 PM
Good thread. Right on target with the Chronic, too, I've long felt it was just about the worst thing that ever happened for rap music, which I enjoyed greatly until that rec impacted on the genre.

On the 'skit' thing, De La Soul was doing that well prior, and probably some others, not that that's necessarily where the current formula comes from, more likely it's based on the Chronic. But there's so little rap I can listen to...and for a long time...that discussing it in any other manner than 'what the heck happened to this music' is next to impossible, and you can only say these things so many times. Well, said, though. Extremely well said.

Ditto to 3-Lock on Country, though I'd say while the Garth Brooks thing was indeed a problem, the mainstream, contemporary Country music had settled into its morass years...decades...before. Suffice it to say I prefer some Western in my Country.

Even more preferable, Western Swing.

I'd name a few albums by bands like the Who & Led Zeppelin as being kinda destructive as well. For the Who, Tommy, and Live At Leeds as well. For Led Zeppelin, much as I still like some of the stuff, perhaps every record, or at least their first few. Spawned some horrible stuff. I'd blame the Rolling Stones for Aerosmith, except that's mitigated somewhat by the NY Dolls. But perhaps more influential than some of those Who & Zep records, might be some of the Cream stuff. Not all of which I dislike all that much, but considering some of the places rock went in their wake...

3-LockBox
07-19-2006, 09:56 PM
But perhaps more influential than some of those Who & Zep records, might be some of the Cream stuff. Not all of which I dislike all that much, but considering some of the places rock went in their wake...

Clapton himself once said that he was tired of rigidness of the British-influenced blues scene and that's why he was so intrigued by what he was hearing from jam bands like Alman Bros. Cream spawned so many banal copy-cats. I wasn't much a fan of Cream and even less a fan of their offspring.

At least Zeppelin was aware of repeating themselves by the time they came to recording their 3rd album, flirting with folk music. By the time Houses Of The Holy came out, they were really pushing boundaries with authentic eastern influences. Not many of their offspring followed suit though.

DaHaq
07-19-2006, 10:19 PM
I'd say early Van Halen is a good candidate. Great band, but what a bunch of crap hair metal bands it spawned in the 80s

MindGoneHaywire
07-20-2006, 03:22 AM
Miles' *****es Brew deserves a mention, I think...

MindGoneHaywire
07-20-2006, 03:25 AM
Gee, how fortunate we are that our potty keyboards aren't offending anyone's sensibilities.

bobsticks
07-20-2006, 06:31 AM
I so completely agree with every bit of that statement (I wonder how much this new genre contributed to violent acts against women) I also hate to listen to a rap album only to hear one rapper airing his/her personal differences with another rapper. Its all a frikken soap-opera now.

Rap is even worse than country music as far as being a revolving door for flavor of the month artists. Now new rap artists are barely a blip on the radar before the next best thing arrives.

To combine this post and Sir nobody's first would more than adequately encapsulate my feelings on this topic, except to add that it seems as if rap has a greater influence on its target audience than other genres. Perhaps not greater in choices of outrageous clothing or other aesthetic considerations, but certainly in terms of behavior. This is not a good thing.

Stone
07-20-2006, 07:08 AM
I know it's not just one album, but I'd say Faith No More's Introduce Yourself and The Real Thing, as well as Red Hot Chili Peppers' Uplift Mofo Party Plan and Mother's Milk spawned the nu-metal genre and generation, unfortunately. I really like all of the albums I've mentioned, but what followed really made me cringe. Limp Bizkit, anyone? Staind?

Resident Loser
07-20-2006, 07:11 AM
...where does one begin?

The first of anything may be innovative (whether or not you like it is irrelevant) but at the first sign of popularity, the suits will slice-and-dice it, give it a new hairstyle and turn it into product...How many successful groups or albums haven't spawned a plethora of mostly useless wannabees?

Think boy bands, girl singers...And the public...well...for the most part, they just eat it all up, fueling the whole vicious cycle...and it ain't just music...

jimHJJ(...backwards ball caps and gray pony-tails get real old, real quick...)

DariusNYC
07-20-2006, 09:46 AM
Great thread.

Pearl Jam's 10 created a whole subgenre of plaintive white-boy sincerity rock with overdramatic vocals that produced Creed and Nickelback. But don't get me wrong -- I love that album. It's just that style, when it's not done really well, really sucks.

I think Led Zeppelin's influence was largely negative, and I love Led Zeppelin; especially the early stuff.

daviethek
07-20-2006, 11:31 AM
George Benson's "Breezin" probably kickstarted smooth jazz and helped further augment and corrupt the once creative medium by unnessesarily prolonging the lives an careers of mediocre jazz musicians everywhere.

3-LockBox
07-20-2006, 12:15 PM
George Benson's "Breezin" probably kickstarted smooth jazz and helped further augment and corrupt the once creative medium by unnessesarily prolonging the lives an careers of mediocre jazz musicians everywhere.

OOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

That's a good one...I love the album actually, but yer completely right. Chuck Mangione, Dave Grusuin and the lot owe a lot to that album.

-Jar-
07-20-2006, 01:47 PM
I'd have to say Nirvana - Nevermind

I love Nirvana, but there have been many terrible terrible knockoffs over the past decade and a half. Nirvana has had some good influence too, but not much in mainstream music.

This was the first one I thought of too. I pretty much love everything that influcenced Nirvana (Melvins, Killing Joke, Pixies, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Stooges, Velvet Underground) but pretty much hate anything that THEY inspired..


Another one would be Korn's first album. A pretty decent album (from what I remember) that inspired a veritable avalanche of wretched music the likes of which have never been seen in the history of music...

-Jar-
07-20-2006, 01:51 PM
I'd say early Van Halen is a good candidate. Great band, but what a bunch of crap hair metal bands it spawned in the 80s

Yea, there were some great pop/hair metal albums at first... early VH, Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard's PYROMANIA, even the first Ratt album. Then things when HORRIBLY wrong... *shiver*

superpanavision70mm
07-21-2006, 01:34 AM
Two words: Pearl Jam

MasterCylinder
07-21-2006, 04:09 AM
Rap is even worse than country music as far as being a revolving door for flavor of the month artists. Now new rap artists are barely a blip on the radar before the next best thing arrives.
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3-lock:
You say that like it's a bad thing.
I pray you are correct and that it is actually a signal that (c)rap is on the downslide.

In addition..........in an interview with Jimmy Page, he once remarked that Zeppelin III was their response to the huge surprise (to the Zepp) successes of C,S,N & Y.

3-LockBox
07-21-2006, 02:27 PM
.......in an interview with Jimmy Page, he once remarked that Zeppelin III was their response to the huge surprise (to the Zepp) successes of C,S,N & Y.


I think I remember that from Hammer Of The Gods...Page was very conscious of the pop music world and while Zep broke new ground on almost every release, however, Page did want airplay, and adjusted Zep's musical direction accordingly.

BinFrog
07-24-2006, 04:07 AM
Two words: Pearl Jam



Unbelievably great band that spawned unbelievably horrible knock off acts.

noddin0ff
07-24-2006, 10:19 AM
Yea, there were some great pop/hair metal albums at first... early VH, Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard's PYROMANIA, even the first Ratt album. Then things when HORRIBLY wrong... *shiver*

Quiet Riot = Great? Common! No! I ain't gonna take it.

BradH
07-24-2006, 04:18 PM
In addition..........in an interview with Jimmy Page, he once remarked that Zeppelin III was their response to the huge surprise (to the Zepp) successes of C,S,N & Y.

I'd like to see that interview because I never bought the idea from the critics that Zep III was all about capitalizing on CSN's success. Sure, they were musically influenced but it's not like they were floundering around looking for success after their first two albums.

From an artistic standpoint, my ears tell me they were also influenced by Fairport Convention's gorgeous Liege & Leaf, also from the previous year like CSN. Sandy Denny even sang on "The Battle of Evermore" on the next album.

I freakin' hate that Dre sound. I've even heard it in television commercials.

-Jar-
07-24-2006, 05:35 PM
Quiet Riot = Great? Common! No! I ain't gonna take it.

Ok, when I was 13 they were great to me, so there's some nostalgia there. I won the air guitar contest at school two years in a row to "Metal Health"

And I did have a great live performance of them I taped off TV.. they had some catchy songs on their first (non-Randy) album.. no, they couldn't play like Maiden or Priest, but I liked 'em.

-jar