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IRG
07-15-2006, 05:23 PM
Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've been back to this forum. I caught the guitar bug and have been hanging out at harmony-central.com site ever since. So instead of audio gear, I've been buying guitars, I think 5 or 6 in the last half year. Talk abaout addicitive (and for me, it is a lot more fun playing music than passively listening to it, but to each his own!).

Here is my question/dilemma. I have a small living room, that is horribly laid out for audio let alone HT. I have a NAD 5 channel HT receiver that gets the job done, a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3 on large bulky/quality stands, an Athena center channel, and an old but trusty JBL PB-10 sub. No rear speakers yet (maybe ever). For space reasons, I may have to get rid of the Paradigms, and go smaller. I had a pair of Bose cubes a long time ago, and I will never go that route again, but something similar in size, maybe a little bigger.

They will be wall mounted, instead of stands. Aperion audio makes a small speaker for $200/pair as does PSB, what other brands, speaker models should I consider? I might also replace the Athena center speaker with something smaller, and ideally it should match the front 2 speakers. As before, I really don't know if I am going to add rear speakers, I just have so little room, and budget is tight too. I've considered going with a basic 2 channel receiver, but I like the switching capabilities of a HT receiver.

In terms of sound quality, it does not have to be spectacular. This is used 95% for HT, and at that most of it for watching cable TV. Affordable and wall mountable are key criteria, and if possible they should sound decent. I have a Best Buy near me, a local shop that sells PSB and Boston Acoustics, another shop that sells Paradigm I think that is about it. I don't want to spend more than $400 or so for these 3 speakers. I will need a new sub too, budget $300 for something not large. I could do a kit too possibly. Thanks, I hope this topic doesn't come up over andover as I didn't do a search because I am just too tired after running around after 3 little kids all day. Cheers!
P.S. MarkW, you better respond!

markw
07-15-2006, 05:45 PM
Sounds like you've been going thru some changes. Good to hear from ya and, since you're back into the spending mode I assume and most certainly hope) all is well with you and yours.

Well, since size and child-proogf mountingseem to be the major concers, I got the hear these a while back. Although it was in conjunction with a sub, I was quite impressed with the overall sound and spread that these teeny mofo's could put out.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/mirage_nanosat.htm

Yes, they list for $125 or so each. I don't know who is local to your neck of the woods but perhaps through some judicious shopping or sweet talking a local dealer, you could swing some sort of discount?

Of course, these are still available at a good price and are seriously worth considering, particularly since HT in a smaller room seems to be the order of the day. Remember, these originally listed for $600: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ATHMICRA6&product_name=MICRA%206%20Home%20Theater%20System

Here's a review. :http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AthenaTechnologiesMicra6p1.html

All else being equal, I'd say these are the bargain of the week.

for my part, I just became a grandpa for the fifth time last October and did some time tutoring at the local college and found out that dealing with the political BS needed to make in the acedemic world wasn't worth it. Back to the real world. ...and we're looking to reloclate to Nashville in a year or so.

IRG
07-15-2006, 06:45 PM
Thanks Mark, I knew I could count on you! Thanks for the links. Both look very promising. The Athena seems too good to be true for the money, but I will definitely check it out. The Mirage looks very cool, not sure how much they will cost though. Thanks. Good luck with the move to Nashville. Nice city, haven't been in a long time though. I'll post more soon, Ian

elapsed
07-16-2006, 10:33 PM
IRG - be sure to listen to the PSB Alpha Series, these will fit your budget and meet all of your space and audio requirements. :)

http://www.psbspeakers.com/alphaHTS.php

superpanavision70mm
07-17-2006, 04:26 AM
I'll second the vote for the PSB alphas. A sweet little sucker that blows away the similar competition.

IRG
07-17-2006, 05:18 AM
Thanks guys for the PSB recommendation. My NAD dealer sells PSB too, so I will have to check them out. Is the smallest Alpha speaker wall mountable? I love my speaker stands, but with 3 small kids, and limited space, it really dictates that function trumps all else. In my next room, a dedicated listening room! But for now, I will check out the alphas.

If these are small enough and affordable enough, I might go with 5 of them, but my rear speakers would basically be right up against the back sofa, so it almost doesn't make sense.

Anyone think I should trade in my NAD T743 for a Yamaha receiver? The same NAD dealer sells them too. He prefers the NAD for music, the Yamaha for about everything else. However, I rarely get to listen to a full cd at an appropriate voume (again, it's the 3 kids thing), so I am not getting any receiver to do critical listening. My next "amp" purchase will be tubes - for my guitar amp. That is more critical to me now than my HT receiver. I guess this is for another post, HT receiver, or 2 channel receiver? (Any 2 channel receiver do switching?) IRG

IRG
07-17-2006, 03:59 PM
I don't think I want a HTIB solution. I really only need 2 good speakers, but they need to be small and wall mountable. The PSB Alpha line is one good idea, especially their very small center speaker- I could get 3 of them and match them across the front. Anyone else make a small mountable speaker that is decent quality? Would the Epos ESL3 be wall mountable?

Any guess what I can sell my Paradigm Monitor 3s for? I do like them, and would prefer to keep them. My PSB dealer would happily take them in for a trade, depends what he would offer (he's been very good in the past). Any other recommendations are still welcome.

jrhymeammo
07-17-2006, 08:05 PM
Just a suggestion without any experience. These are wall mountable too.

http://www.castle.uk.com/pages/compact_satellite.htm

See what you can find out on these. I just know that Castle Speakers are well respected.

superpanavision70mm
07-18-2006, 03:29 AM
The PSB Alpha LR1 is wall-mountable and weighs under 8lbs.

IRG
07-18-2006, 05:10 AM
Just a suggestion without any experience. These are wall mountable too.

http://www.castle.uk.com/pages/compact_satellite.htm

See what you can find out on these. I just know that Castle Speakers are well respected.

Curious, but I did not find a north american dealer on their website. I've emailed them, to see what the deal is. These look great, and I like the size too, this is what I am looking for. Any idea on the price?

IRG
07-18-2006, 05:12 AM
The PSB Alpha LR1 is wall-mountable and weighs under 8lbs.

These are probably the leading contender because I can get them locally. I much prefer that now over any mail order. I like the looks of the above posted Castle better, but I imagine the PSB are a better deal dollar wise. Both are solid choices though, thanks guys. Does Paradigm make something similar to the PSB Alpha?

3db
07-18-2006, 05:42 AM
Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've been back to this forum. I caught the guitar bug and have been hanging out at harmony-central.com site ever since. So instead of audio gear, I've been buying guitars, I think 5 or 6 in the last half year. Talk abaout addicitive (and for me, it is a lot more fun playing music than passively listening to it, but to each his own!).

Here is my question/dilemma. I have a small living room, that is horribly laid out for audio let alone HT. I have a NAD 5 channel HT receiver that gets the job done, a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3 on large bulky/quality stands, an Athena center channel, and an old but trusty JBL PB-10 sub. No rear speakers yet (maybe ever). For space reasons, I may have to get rid of the Paradigms, and go smaller. I had a pair of Bose cubes a long time ago, and I will never go that route again, but something similar in size, maybe a little bigger.

They will be wall mounted, instead of stands. Aperion audio makes a small speaker for $200/pair as does PSB, what other brands, speaker models should I consider? I might also replace the Athena center speaker with something smaller, and ideally it should match the front 2 speakers. As before, I really don't know if I am going to add rear speakers, I just have so little room, and budget is tight too. I've considered going with a basic 2 channel receiver, but I like the switching capabilities of a HT receiver.

In terms of sound quality, it does not have to be spectacular. This is used 95% for HT, and at that most of it for watching cable TV. Affordable and wall mountable are key criteria, and if possible they should sound decent. I have a Best Buy near me, a local shop that sells PSB and Boston Acoustics, another shop that sells Paradigm I think that is about it. I don't want to spend more than $400 or so for these 3 speakers. I will need a new sub too, budget $300 for something not large. I could do a kit too possibly. Thanks, I hope this topic doesn't come up over andover as I didn't do a search because I am just too tired after running around after 3 little kids all day. Cheers!
P.S. MarkW, you better respond!


I have a total PSB system for my HT/music system and love it. I' managed to find speaker brackets that allowed me to wall mount the Image1Bs for surround speaker use. The brackets themselves csot me $80Cdn for a pair and can hold up to 25lbs; the Image 1Bs are around 12lbs. Its just an option. The alphas are a fine speaker, the Image series is the next step up in the ir line. BTW, PSB and NAD are very difficult to beat as combo for the price or twice the price. They have amazing synergy together. Good luck!!

IRG
07-18-2006, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the input. PSB is definitely on my list. Any thoughts on NHT? I've always liked them, but haven't owned 'em. The Zero is only $129 each, seems like it should also make it on my short list. They should be wall mountable. The little Aperion's are also wall mountable. And since both of those are not bass reflex, it makes it a little easier for me.

Not sure whether my NAD has enough power for the NHTs though, they are not that efficient. Still looking at options...

jrhymeammo
07-18-2006, 07:00 PM
Curious, but I did not find a north american dealer on their website. I've emailed them, to see what the deal is. These look great, and I like the size too, this is what I am looking for. Any idea on the price?

Yes.

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/castle-acoustics/bookshelf-speakers/PRD_290042_4290crx.aspx

PSB, Paradigm, BDub, and others seem to spend a ton on ads. I'm sure that their passion for producing better speakers is still there. But, you may get more quality parts with Castle than other major players.
I would look around alot longer since hunting is much fun, and $400+ is alot of money to throw away if not satisfied.

-JRA

3db
07-19-2006, 06:47 AM
Yes.

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/castle-acoustics/bookshelf-speakers/PRD_290042_4290crx.aspx

PSB, Paradigm, BDub, and others seem to spend a ton on ads. I'm sure that their passion for producing better speakers is still there. But, you may get more quality parts with Castle than other major players.
I would look around alot longer since hunting is much fun, and $400+ is alot of money to throw away if not satisfied.

-JRA

I would look around alot longer since hunting is much fun, and $400+ is alot of money to throw away if not satisfied.

on something like castle??? I agree.

I looked at your equipement list and it seems you've bought into the heavy advertisers as well, B&W, Yamaha, oh and Paradigm? Is that a Paradigm in your list? I guess you where sure that passion was there for designing and producing good equipment. After all, 2500 is alot of money to throw out on a sub if your not really satisfied.

IRG
07-19-2006, 10:00 AM
After being away from this forum for about a year, I've stepped back a little to analyze my own buying habits, brands, reputation, needs/wants etc. I laugh when I see how much people spend on some things audio, but I also understand it is all relative and if you enjoy it, it shouldn't matter. Someday with a proper listening space, I may spend more $ on equipment if I can justify the increase in sound quality. I've been spending most of my time and $ on guitars lately. I can hear a difference in each guitar I own, subtle things usually, sometimes less than subtle. If we think there are a lot of parameters in determing sound quality with our audio systems, it is even more complicated with making your own music. Hell I even changed the bridge saddles on one of my Telecasters to brass just to increase the sustain a little bit.

But with audio, I seem less enthused lately. I don't think/believe that much if any difference in sound is going to occur whether I use a NAD receiver or Yamaha or Pioneer for that matter. They are all relatively similar in design and components. They are all competing for a similar audience at similar price points. Sure, there are exceptions to this, the $5k Denon or something like that, but a budget Yamaha or a budget Onkyo; you won't hear much difference. Unless someone comes out with a "budget" tube receiver for HT, then a difference will probably be heard. Speakers, a little different animal. But I wonder how much the sound will really be improved (or at least different) between a small speaker from PSB, Paradigm, Castle, JBL, B&W etc at similar price points.

Especially given the source I use a fair amount - digital cable box. My biggest complaint is the difference in sound levels between the networks (that have a non digital audio signal) and the digital stations that have digital audio. I am always having to turn up the volume significantly on my receiver with the networks, and down again for anything else, really annoying.

I guess the point with this very long winded rambling post is that I believe I can get pretty good sound with less expensive equipment, which I didn't used to believe. I guess that is all relative in terms of how you define pretty good, but I think for $200 or so, I could get a pair of PSB Alphas and be pretty much as pleased with them as speakers going for 4x the cost. Psychology has a lot to do with this hobby in how we perceive the quality of equipment to be associated with the name brands that are considered "elitist" and all. No I don't think a pair of JBL monitors are going to sound as good as a pair of Apogee Grand Whatevers but I am not getting a second mortgage to buy them either. This is true of my guitar hobby too; people are spending huge amounts of money on vintage guitars. Collectible yes, better quality sound? Very subjective. But if spending $250k on a Les Paul is your cup of tea, I say enjoy it. I won't be spending that on a guitar or a pair of speakers, when i think a lot of the time spending less money on something that actually sounds pretty darn good (but doesn't have the cache) is very rewarding in and of itself.

markw
07-19-2006, 11:06 AM
After being away from this forum for about a year, I've stepped back a little to analyze my own buying habits, brands, reputation, needs/wants etc. I laugh when I see how much people spend on some things audio, but I also understand it is all relative and if you enjoy it, it shouldn't matter. Someday with a proper listening space, I may spend more $ on equipment if I can justify the increase in sound quality. I've been spending most of my time and $ on guitars lately. I can hear a difference in each guitar I own, subtle things usually, sometimes less than subtle. If we think there are a lot of parameters in determing sound quality with our audio systems, it is even more complicated with making your own music. Hell I even changed the bridge saddles on one of my Telecasters to brass just to increase the sustain a little bit.

But with audio, I seem less enthused lately. I don't think/believe that much if any difference in sound is going to occur whether I use a NAD receiver or Yamaha or Pioneer for that matter. They are all relatively similar in design and components. They are all competing for a similar audience at similar price points. Sure, there are exceptions to this, the $5k Denon or something like that, but a budget Yamaha or a budget Onkyo; you won't hear much difference. Unless someone comes out with a "budget" tube receiver for HT, then a difference will probably be heard. Speakers, a little different animal. But I wonder how much the sound will really be improved (or at least different) between a small speaker from PSB, Paradigm, Castle, JBL, B&W etc at similar price points.

Especially given the source I use a fair amount - digital cable box. My biggest complaint is the difference in sound levels between the networks (that have a non digital audio signal) and the digital stations that have digital audio. I am always having to turn up the volume significantly on my receiver with the networks, and down again for anything else, really annoying.

I guess the point with this very long winded rambling post is that I believe I can get pretty good sound with less expensive equipment, which I didn't used to believe. I guess that is all relative in terms of how you define pretty good, but I think for $200 or so, I could get a pair of PSB Alphas and be pretty much as pleased with them as speakers going for 4x the cost. Psychology has a lot to do with this hobby in how we perceive the quality of equipment to be associated with the name brands that are considered "elitist" and all. No I don't think a pair of JBL monitors are going to sound as good as a pair of Apogee Grand Whatevers but I am not getting a second mortgage to buy them either. This is true of my guitar hobby too; people are spending huge amounts of money on vintage guitars. Collectible yes, better quality sound? Very subjective. But if spending $250k on a Les Paul is your cup of tea, I say enjoy it. I won't be spending that on a guitar or a pair of speakers, when i think a lot of the time spending less money on something that actually sounds pretty darn good (but doesn't have the cache) is very rewarding in and of itself.While in Nashville, we spent some time in the Opry Mills Mall, by the new Gramd Old Opry. ...saw Superman Returns on hte IMAX screen, had dinner in "The Aquarium", got a "Marble Slab" ice cream cone and, finally, checked out the "Gibson Factory Store" there. They had luthiers making guitars, mandolins and banjos in glass cages. They had all kinds of guitars on display (for sale) there, both new and used, electric, acoustic, dobro, etc... Some of the prices were astronomical but they were absolutely gorgeous. They also had a room in the back where they had a (verygood) local group playing.

Hey, If I'm gonna be living there I guess I better get working, eh? You've heard John Sebastian/Lovin Spoonfull's Nashville Cats", haven't ya?

Good luck on your search. It sounds your priorities are gelling quite nicely.

to wit: It's less how much you spend as much as it is how well you spend it.

Now, I'm trying to teach myself to play just so I can have an excuse for a nice guitar. Just what I need... more toys on which to spend money I don't have.

Oh, I DO like PSB speakers, very much, but I figured they were a little large for your mounting purposes.

IRG
07-19-2006, 11:47 AM
Sounds like you should get yourself a nice LP in the near future! Actually there is always some very interesting debate about Gibson QC in the Harmony-central forums. Most folks seem to think (and I agree with them) that Gibsons are overpriced. Some of their quality control is very hit and miss. Personally on a $2-3k guitar there should be no misses. Let alone the $5-10k models. But I admit if I had the cash, I would want one. I bought a copy, LP called Agile that is very popular at the moment. Only place to get them is at rondomusic.net. But for $159 I got a very nice gold top LP. No it is not a Gibson, and it probably doesn't sound as good, but man it cost about 1/10th - it should not be as good. And it does sound good, and had very few finishing flaws. But then I discovered Telecasters, and have since bought 4 of them, one I am customizing at the moment. SUch a fun hobby, you should get into it soon. I suck at playing, but I do it for my own amusement. I'll take some lessons soon. It is amazing though, how good quality guitars you can buy today for not very much money. Gibson being the exception. They keep getting more expensive (and keep selling more).

Haven't heard of the band you mentioned, but I confess, I haven't been out enough lately to hear good live bands. I did hear on a trip to Auston Texas a great 3 piece blues band, with a lead guitarist that sounded just like SRV, the Eric Tessmer Band. Awesome time watching them. Every time I see a talented guitarist it makes me want to play more (and play better). I think that is partly why I have lost the audio bug lately. And hey, as you mentioned, it is hard to fund all of your toys, sometimes you have to pick and choose.

But with this audio purchase, I figure I can sell/trade my Paradigm to smaller PSB and be out much if any cash. I do want a new sub though. Even more, I would like a nice 30-32" HDTV monitor. Any suggestions? I know, another thread for sure.

I need to go to see the Gibson factory some day. I will have to arrange a business trip down that way some time. Maybe there are some alumni that work there :cornut:

elapsed
07-19-2006, 12:05 PM
Even more, I would like a nice 30-32" HDTV monitor. Any suggestions?
For LCD's, check out the Sharp Aquos LC32D40U and Samsung LN-S3251D (and Samsung's new 92D and 92D Series). Sharp is currently the world leader in LCD sales. You may also want to check out the Sony Bravia KDL-V32XBR1, though you will pay a huge markup for the Sony branding. I would avoid the Sony Bravia S-Series models, as they have a very limited number of inputs. Sony and Samsung share an LCD production facility in South Korea, so you will certainly get far more value out of a Samsung set.

IRG
07-19-2006, 12:14 PM
I have a Sony now, (non hdtv) but you're right, they do have a big name mark up. How much for a 30-32 Samsung? I have a Sears and a Best Buy near me, that's about it for the affordable places. Anything under a $1k? I have spent so much freakin money lately. $1800 for a fridge (yes a fridge, that replaced a dying 2 year old Kenmore grrr), new sliding doors, new leather sofas...home ownership is driving me to the poorhouse. But about that LCD screen I need...

IRG
07-19-2006, 12:19 PM
I just checked out the Samsung at BB. About $1500. More than I want to spend at the moment. Is it realistic to think prices will fall to the $1k mark in the near future? For 32" LCD. And is LCD the way to go? Vs. Plasma, vs all of the other choices. I find it hard to keep up with the various formats at the moment.

elapsed
07-19-2006, 12:31 PM
I just checked out the Samsung at BB. About $1500. More than I want to spend at the moment. Is it realistic to think prices will fall to the $1k mark in the near future? For 32" LCD. And is LCD the way to go? Vs. Plasma, vs all of the other choices. I find it hard to keep up with the various formats at the moment.
You won't be able to find a Plasma under 37", so your best two options are LCD and CRT. I see a couple of Toshiba CRT's available in your price range, though you'll want to find some reviews first:

Toshiba 30HFX85 30" CRT, MSRP $899.99
Toshiba 30HF85 30" CRT, MSRP $799.99

IRG
07-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Thanks, I will have to check them out. I should say too, that I just got an armoire to put the TV in, so it doesn't really have to be a thin tv like LCD. It could be something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7716769&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03002&id=1138087675171

I don't know if this is a good model or not. I see it is sold out though, so it must have been popular (or maybe a dud). And the Armoire is new, so I am not going to get rid of it. And like the speaker thread that I started with, space is limited, so anything larger than 30-32" would just be overpowering in this room. But HD would be nice, and I would splurge for that. I'll have to figure out a way to get the TV home and installed without the wife knowing about it :)

jrhymeammo
07-20-2006, 05:33 PM
I would look around alot longer since hunting is much fun, and $400+ is alot of money to throw away if not satisfied.

on something like castle??? I agree.

I looked at your equipement list and it seems you've bought into the heavy advertisers as well, B&W, Yamaha, oh and Paradigm? Is that a Paradigm in your list? I guess you where sure that passion was there for designing and producing good equipment. After all, 2500 is alot of money to throw out on a sub if your not really satisfied.

Yes, I do own alot of popular equipments. I'm glad you can read and write sufficiently. Me? No, I'm afraid I have hard time breaking away from old habits. I'm sure your kids can put me to shame. Anyhow,

I've purchased my Paradigm when I lived in a small town years back. During that time, Paradigm was my first mid-fi, hi-fi, or whatever speakers I acquired. I thought the sound was amazing, and I still think some of the Monitor and Studio series are best buy for hard earned cash. Maybe I could've purchased speakers made by other manufactures instead of going to the local Paradigm dealer. But, I was scared enough to buy CDs from Amazon.com. I just feel alot more confident making online purchases today. For that, I just thought people could enjoy different speakers instead of what is only available within 20 mile radius.
And yes, I purchased my B&W speakers not too long ago. If I had a choice of purchasing speakers today with same amount of money I spent a year ago, I would definitlely drive over 500 miles or buy from online dealers. I have a different setup now which high efficient speakers will compliment my systems better. At the time of purchase, my decision made perfect sense. For that matter I do not have any regrets on my previous action.
I just think that there are so many companies out there that are overlooked due to a lack of product awareness. I was just trying to help out IRG if there are much more speaker options out there that he may benefit from.
I believe you made a statement that $400 will be a waste of money if he was to purchase Castle. I'm gonna assume that you have experience with at least one of their products. Why couldnt you just share your experience with that product. If you are/were too busy then nevermind. I personally dont reply to every single posts on this site either. As I've stated on my previous post, I do not have experience with their products just like most of us here. If he were to purchase from US dealer and didnt like the speakers, the shipping shouldn't be more than $30-50 for a pair of 10lb speakers. I personally think $50 isn't too much of money to spend on speakers if I'm seeking what I want to live with for awhile. But IRG sees it differently, and no problem with that at all. Being able to hear speakers before making purchases is great. Also, driving back home with speakers WITH a huge smile is priceless.

-JRA

Dusty Chalk
07-25-2006, 03:23 PM
Gallo?

http://www.roundsound.com/photos/satellite/gallo-due-main.jpg (http://www.roundsound.com/due-satellite-speakers.htm)