Identify these for me? (56k warning)

[Coyote-X]

Hi guys. I've got these records, they came from my grandparents' house up in the attic. (There are more where these came from. They're regular LPs and single 45's though.)

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7216/dscn10718mf.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9670/dscn10722dd.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3162/dscn10730mk.jpg

They don't look like they're in the best of condition... but they're sentimental. Anyway, I put them on my turntable at 45 RPM and they still sounded kinda slow; are these 78's? They're about 10" in diameter and much heavier than regular vinyl records. One of them is cracked.

[JoeE SP9]

I think they're 78's.:cool:

[DaHaq]

I remember when I found my grandparents' old 78s and tried to play them at 45 rpm on my standard turntable. I always wondered if this was damaging them, anyone know?

[royphil345]

Wouldn't damage them. Easier on the records than an old steel needle at higher tracking force and faster speed. Very hard on your stylus though. Stylus life is much shorter playing 78s. I've actually seen software for recording 78s on the computer at 45 RPMs and correcting the speed after recording. I'm sure you could use any recording / wave editing software after figuring out the percentage of speed change required. The lower speed playback will also help the stylus track better on warped or damaged records and may minimise noise.

For best sound and minimal wear, 78s need to be played back with a 78 / wide groove stylus. Less tracking distortion, and the wider stylus won't bottom out in the wide grooves causing excessive noise.

Coyote-X - The 78s you have look like they are of the shellac / lateral cut variety (most common) . They should be kept clean and away from high heat, humidity or dampness. Mold and bacteria can actually grow IN the records, causing excessive noise. After some reading about all of the different ways 78s were constructed, and how many of them can be damaged by any sort of wet cleaning... I'd be very scared to clean them with anything other than a soft, dry brush.

Here's a link to some good info that contains another link (top of page) to some even more in-depth info. http://78rpmrecord.com/repair.htm

[audio_dude]

yup, 78's alright...i've got a windup 78RPM turntable and about 100 records from my grandparents, anyone know where to get replacement needles for them? the ones we have are all worn out

[royphil345]

I don't know exactly where right now, but I know I've seen them from several sources on the web. Try a search.

Think you're only supposed to use the needles twice. They made some harder tipped "permanent" needles for those phonographs that were very damaging to the records.

http://www.angelfire.com/vt2/phonographneedles/index2.html

[Coyote-X]

Wouldn't damage them. Easier on the records than an old steel needle at higher tracking force and faster speed. Very hard on your stylus though. Stylus life is much shorter playing 78s. I've actually seen software for recording 78s on the computer at 45 RPMs and correcting the speed after recording. I'm sure you could use any recording / wave editing software after figuring out the percentage of speed change required. The lower speed playback will also help the stylus track better on warped or damaged records and may minimise noise.

For best sound and minimal wear, 78s need to be played back with a 78 / wide groove stylus. Less tracking distortion, and the wider stylus won't bottom out in the wide grooves causing excessive noise.

Coyote-X - The 78s you have look like they are of the shellac / lateral cut variety (most common) . They should be kept clean and away from high heat, humidity or dampness. Mold and bacteria can actually grow IN the records, causing excessive noise. After some reading about all of the different ways 78s were constructed, and how many of them can be damaged by any sort of wet cleaning... I'd be very scared to clean them with anything other than a soft, dry brush.

Here's a link to some good info that contains another link (top of page) to some even more in-depth info. http://78rpmrecord.com/repair.htm


Thanks for the good info and the link. I don't plan on listening to these heavily or regularly. My grandparents are getting on in years, so they're giving stuff away to their children/grandkids now, so there will be no argument when the time comes. They're hard of hearing and don't listen to much music nowadays anyways... These are just something I thought should be preserved and not lost in the shuffle.

Anyway looking at that FAQ, they're much more fragile then I thought at first. Right now I'm trying to come up with a way to store them (as none of them have cases) and a way to play them. Luckily my mom's also interested in hearing them so getting something that can play them shouldn't be too hard on my wallet. Does anybody have any recommendations on a table?

[royphil345]

This is one of the VERY few tables currently for sale that will play 78s. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012EYNG/sr=8-4/qid=1152130442/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-6614971-5582460?ie=UTF8

Solid build. Has a built in phono preamp (switchable) so it can be plugged ito a CD, AUX, or TAPE input on a system with no phono input.

Although the table has 78 RPM speed, there doesn't seem to be a 78 stylus made for the supplied cartridge. You'd have to pick up a 78 cartridge from http://www.kabusa.com with an extra headshell to mount it in (turntable uses the standard S-arm plug-in type), for a total of about $50.00 over the price of the turntable.

You could also try to find something used. Anything in good working order that has 78 RPM speed would do the trick, especially if you're mostly interested in playing 78s and not getting the best possible sound quality from vinyl. I'd probably stay away from anything with a ceramic cartridge. Although, if sound quality isn't that important to you... that could be a cheaper option. For many of the tables with ceramic cartridges, you can still find inexpensive replacement needles that "flip" for playing LPs or 78s and no preamp is required for plugging into a CD, TAPE, or AUX input. Vinyl sure won't sound hi-fi on one of these tables though. And the tracking force is usually a little on the heavy side with no anti-skate force applied, causing undue and uneven record wear.

Something like this would work. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Dual-1212-Turntable-Shure-Cartridge-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ300004591699QQihZ020QQcategoryZ32 83QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem This turntable has a magnetic cartridge and no built in preamp... meaning better sound quality, less record wear, but it would require a separate phono preamp if your system has no "phono" input. http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html Solid table, probably underpriced, probably a little more rumble than a table I'd recommend to someone not requiring the 78 speed. Know you can still buy a replacement stylus for that cartridge. Think you can probably still buy a 78 stylus for it. Ask at http://www.garage-a-records.com/index.php or http://www.needledoctor.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/Garrard-630S-Automatic-Record-Changer-Very-Nice_W0QQitemZ290004543507QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3283Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Similar to the table above. They didn't list the cartridge model. Don't know if you could get a replacement or 78 stylus. Might need a new cartridge with regular and 78 styli.

http://cgi.ebay.com/GARRARRD-TURNTABLE-ALL-SPEED-33-45-78-LIKE-NEW-CONDITIO_W0QQitemZ320003496768QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3 283QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Ceramic cartridge with LP / 78 "flip needle" No preamp needed for CD, TAPE, AUX inputs. NOT hi-fi sound for vinyl. Should be able to find inexpensive replacement flip needles. This one doesn't come with the short spindle included like the other two. Stacking fragile 78s on the long spindle might not be a good idea.

For the best listening experience from old 78s... It seems the best way to go is record them to the computer, clean up the crackles and pops with software, then put them on CDs for listening. You could also purchase a good table with no 78 RPM speed and try the software 45 to 78 RPM conversion (78 cartridge / stylus still required). See the "Solid cartridge" post a few posts back for some recommendations of good, cheap tables with no 78 RPM speed.

I think it turned out that keeping 78s in their paper sleeves wasn't a good thing. The way you have them now might not be so bad if kept loosely covered in a dry environment. You could also search 78 record sites to see if there's any kind of sleeve recommended or sold to keep them in. My bet is you'll find something.