Is it normal to turn volume to +30db for reasonably loud?

[m500]

I have Yamaha RX-V650 that I use for HT. For some reason that I need to turn the volume to +20db or up to be able to listen to it comfortably loud. Which is close to 3/4 turn on the nob. Is there any change in design as I never have to turn any of my other Receiver pass 1/4 to hit the same volume level. Or should I be concern?

[shokhead]

Did you use a spl meter when you setup your speakers to around 75db?

[m500]

Did you use a spl meter when you setup your speakers to around 75db?


No, I'm referring to the volume display by the receiver. I think it start at -75 db to + 75 db. have to turn it all the way to +45db for some series volume. Normal listening at +25db.

[slbenz]

Sounds normal to me. When I listen to two channel stereo on my HT, I am about 10 numbers lower than when I listen in 5.1 channel on my Parasound amp. Years ago I used to own a Yamaha integrated amp and rarely turned the volume control more than a quarter of the way. I felt the same way you did once I got into HT. Having owned Yamaha and Sherwood AV receivers, I noticed that you have to turn up the volume control for HT, especially to hear the center channel dialog over any background noise. The other poster's reference to 75dBs is setting all your speakers to that level using a sound level meter and using the pink noise generator built into your AV receiver which is one possibility to turn up the volume. Another is your speakers may not be all that efficient or DVD movies in general do not record at high a volume as CDs, SACDs or DVD-A which I think is more the case for the apparent volume control difference you and I experience.

Slbenz

[shokhead]

Your receiver volume at 0 should be reference and plenty loud enough if its setup right.

[likeitloud]

Check your speaker settings, check your wire(+/- not reversed). Check your source
player. +30db is crazy LOUD. I've been to -5, and stuff fell on the floor. Did not fly
with the misses. Shokhead has the plan. It works. Good Luck

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[Koggit]

Found this on Wikipedia...

194 Theoretical limit for a sound wave at 1 atmosphere environmental pressure
180 Krakatoa explosion at 100 miles (160 km) in air [1]
168 M1 Garand being fired at 1 meter
150 Jet engine at 30 m
140 Rifle being fired at 1 m
120 Threshold of pain; train horn at 10 m
110 Accelerating motorcycle at 5 m; chainsaw at 1 m
100 Jackhammer at 2 m; inside disco
90 Loud factory, heavy truck at 1 m
80 Vacuum cleaner at 1 m, curbside of busy street
70 Busy traffic at 5 m
60 Office or restaurant inside
50 Quiet restaurant inside
40 Residential area at night
30 Theatre, no talking
10 Human breathing at 3 m
0 Threshold of human hearing (with healthy ears); sound of a mosquito flying 3 m away

+25/+30 being about as loud as a jackhammer...

[E-Stat]

No, I'm referring to the volume display by the receiver. I think it start at -75 db to + 75 db. have to turn it all the way to +45db for some series volume. Normal listening at +25db.
I seriously doubt those calibrations are in db. For starters, the "volume control" is an attenuator like a light dimmer. It starts at 0 db and only goes down from there. Power amps have a total gain factor in the twenties as do line stages.

There isn't an audio component on the planet that has a 150 db range as most of that would be completely wasted. There is no point in providing gradations of completely inaudible.

rw

[EdwardGein]

First of all the voluime level you have this on sounds nuts but the possibilities are that: 1. Your internal settings on your DVD player & Receiver are messed up or 2. Your speakers aren't connected properly including your sub. Let's forget SPL levels for now which you can do if you wish after you've checked your internal settings. On every DVD player & Receiver there are internal settings you set for example like DB level, speaker size, speaker distance, etc. This is different from the volume level you're referring too. Anyway, first check on what you've set them at. If you didn't set anything, then that's probably the problem & you need to set something up. 2. See if your subwoofer is turned on your receiver & the sound is coming out. Check the volume level you put on the sub externally. 3. Now check each of your speakers to make sure they are properly wired & sound is coming out (i.e. you want to make sure you put the right wire in the right slot, etc,). After you've done this, your volume should be at a ballpark level.

Remember there is a difference between the external volume control & the internal DB level. If in doubt, get a friend or pay someone $75 to set your system up. Good luck.

[topspeed]

Good googly moogly...there's some interesting opinions here. Where do I start?

Screw the volume indicator on your AVR. It means nothing. Every manufacturer has different level of gradiations, different pots/attenuators, different philosophies. IOW, it's completely arbitrary so ignore it completely. The only time it is worth a damn is when your want to compare pieces of equipment or software and use the volume indicator to level match each piece (assuming the thing is accurate in the first place).

Why should you ignore it? Easy; too many variables: Speaker efficiencies, gain from source components, degree of attenuation, room interaction, software recording levels, hearing ability...the list goes on and on. No two listeners are exactly alike and alas, no two rigs are either. Results will vary. Wildly in some cases. Therefore, the number on the display is going to vary...wildly in some cases. Ignore it and trust your ears.

Shok had it right: The first thing you should do is calibrate your rig. This cannot be stressed strongly enough. Utilize YPAO if you have it (although some are wary of the calibration compared to the tried and true method about to be described) or get down to a Rat Shack, use the Jaws of Life to pry open your wallet, and lay down $35 for an analog SPL meter. Go down to Borders or Barnes & Noble and get a calibration disc (usually either DVE or AVIA). RTFM and set all your channels to the same level and input distances. Some preach 75dB's as long ago in a far away galaxy, someone declared that number as "reference level." Whatever...as long as all channels are all the same you're golden. The difference between an uncalibrated rig and one done correctly is a revelation for most.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

[m500]

Thanks, topspeed. I'm gonna have to dig up my YPAO to recalibrate it again. I actually tested with a new DVD the Underworld Revolution and the volume seen to be pretty consistant with the average now at -20db for comfortably loud. I'm sure the room size must have something to do with it. I was so fed up with it in my living room that I actually moved the HT system to my little home office. Its just 4 walls about 10' x 15'.

[Resident Loser]

Good googly moogly...there's some interesting opinions here. Where do I start?

...an understatement!

As you rightly pointed out, different sources produce different fixed-output levels and different software, even within their respective groups, do likewise.

Pity most sources can't have little trim-pots as an aid to sorta' balance things out...

jimHJJ(...or that the hub of the wheel doesn't have that individual capability...)

[bubslewis]

I have Yamaha RX-V650 that I use for HT. For some reason that I need to turn the volume to +20db or up to be able to listen to it comfortably loud. Which is close to 3/4 turn on the nob. Is there any change in design as I never have to turn any of my other Receiver pass 1/4 to hit the same volume level. Or should I be concern?


I have a Yamaha RX - V2500 audio/video receiver. It has the same volume display as your RX-V650. Most of the current line of better Yamaha A/V's use this same frontal volume display. I don't know why the display reads in plus/minus db's, but since it provides a measurable reference point it doesn't really matter what the unit of measure is.

I do know I've never had my volume higher than +2.5 db's. I would be deathly afraid to turn it up to +20 db. +30 db would be unthinkable. Assuming your wiring is OK, resetting your YPAQ would be a good place to start (YPAQ does its own wiring check also).

Either that or you have the most inefficient speakers in the universe. Good luck.

[GMichael]

+30?! Egad and gadzooks!:yikes: That must be loud as h.ll. I can't get mine past +10 before my ears start to bleed.

[bubslewis]

I seriously doubt those calibrations are in db. For starters, the "volume control" is an attenuator like a light dimmer. It starts at 0 db and only goes down from there. Power amps have a total gain factor in the twenties as do line stages.

There isn't an audio component on the planet that has a 150 db range as most of that would be completely wasted. There is no point in providing gradations of completely inaudible.

rw

The calibrations are definitely not in whole decibles, despite what the front panel says. They could possibly be in tenths but I still don't know what Yamaha is referring to. Plus 5 db's compared to what?

What is worrisome is that he has to turn the volume up to 75% - 80% of max to attain "reasonable" listening levels. That seems to be an unusually high percentage for most amps/receivers

[axelsrd]

I have a Yamaha RX - V2500 audio/video receiver. It has the same volume display as your RX-V650. Most of the current line of better Yamaha A/V's use this same frontal volume display. I don't know why the display reads in plus/minus db's, but since it provides a measurable reference point it doesn't really matter what the unit of measure is.

I do know I've never had my volume higher than +2.5 db's. I would be deathly afraid to turn it up to +20 db. +30 db would be unthinkable. Assuming your wiring is OK, resetting your YPAQ would be a good place to start (YPAQ does its own wiring check also).

Either that or you have the most inefficient speakers in the universe. Good luck.

I have the 2500 as well. My normal/comfortable listening level is -30db for movies. For music, I sometimes have to turn volume down to -35/-40db. I used the YPAQ during initial setup and never looked back.

[shokhead]

Better look back and double check.

[scottncst8]

I'm having the same problem with my Denon 485S and Infinity Beta 50 speakers. The sound was never very loud before but I just attributed that to the really small and cheap set of surround speakers I had, but I just got the Beta 50's and I have to turn it up to about 70% of the max to get "normal" sound levels. I haven't ever really calibrated my receiver before, could one of you more experienced guys list out the main options should have calibrated correctly?

[shokhead]

Small,75db and 80 xover is a starting point.

[Drakyl]

I have the 2500 as well. My normal/comfortable listening level is -30db for movies. For music, I sometimes have to turn volume down to -35/-40db. I used the YPAQ during initial setup and never looked back.

Hmm... I have one too. Just bought it and plugged it in and after using YPAQ and double checking other items (like correct ohm setting), I have to turn mine up to -20 to -15 db to get a normal level of sound, with about -5 to 0db to get my speakers to move.

My parents had a little Yamaha Stereo receiver I got them a year ago and I barely turn it to -40 db without fearing my speakers will pop out of the tower.

Should I be worried about having to turn it to this level of volume? Wouldn't the same company use a consistant range for ALL their products?

Note: I use 2x B&W DM603 S3 speaker ($1500/ pair)

[topspeed]

Should I be worried about having to turn it to this level of volume? Wouldn't the same company use a consistant range for ALL their products?

Read the entire thread before posting and the answers shall reveal themselves.

[E-Stat]

What is worrisome is that he has to turn the volume up to 75% - 80% of max to attain "reasonable" listening levels. That seems to be an unusually high percentage for most amps/receivers
In addition to overall gain, there are usually channel specific attenuators in play as well. One should be able to hear clipping as a point of reference!

rw

[Drakyl]

I did read the whole thread. And I thought that since I had already used the YPAQ that this might still be a faulty unit, considering axelsrd works at a lower volume setting which I see as more normal, I was just double checking. Plus with the volume settings being -80bd to +8 db, that means that normal listening is at 75% of the max volume, which I agree is much to high on the overall setting for regular listening.

But I'll re-read this thread to make you happy and see if anything jumps out at me more then the first time. Never know.

[shokhead]

Do it the old way,get a spl meter.

[axelsrd]

I did read the whole thread. And I thought that since I had already used the YPAQ that this might still be a faulty unit, considering axelsrd works at a lower volume setting which I see as more normal, I was just double checking. Plus with the volume settings being -80bd to +8 db, that means that normal listening is at 75% of the max volume, which I agree is much to high on the overall setting for regular listening.

But I'll re-read this thread to make you happy and see if anything jumps out at me more then the first time. Never know.

My normal listening level (-30db) for movies is MY normal listening level. Your normal listening level may very well be -20db. I don't know if I would be that concerned about it. I may not listen to movies as loud as you do...I don't know. My speakers are Paradigm Monitor 7 fronts, Mini Monitor rears and CC370 center. My speakers are 93db sensitivity. B&W sensitivity may be 89db (don't know, just a guess) which would explain the different levels (-30db for me vs. -20db for you)

[Drakyl]

Thank you axelsrd.

Yeah I got it back from the shop (luckily under warranty - no $$) and after reading this post and other places online, I'm going to try the SPL... if I can find on locally. My city isn't that fancy with all the bells and whistles though...

Last night I listened to them and they are about the same as my parents Yamaha stereo receiver I had them attached to before. There are differences like the bass is now not as loud in comparison as the old one, but it's pretty much the same. The room shape and size and material make-up is different too and so is the hight of the speakers which, now that I think of it, probably has a bit to do with it too.

Thanks everyone.