where to place center channel?

[wrongway15]

ok i just got a 30" Samsung Slimfit HDTV in my new apartment (small room). I want to hook up some of my old speaker system Paradigm (floors,cc, bookshelfs for rears). I am trying to figure out where to place the center channel. I think my best bet would be one of those shelves that go on top of the tv http://www.htmarket.com/telshelforce.html or something of the like.

First I would like to know if there are any other better solutions...the only other option I could think of would be to either:
1) get a tv stand and put it on shelf below the tv
2) build a shelf into the wall about the tv (but this is an apartment so it would be not the best idea to start mangling the walls and I dont really have much room to do the actual building)

Second. Is this type of shelf safe for the tv...will the weight of the large center channel damage/bow the tv over time? i heard that it could but im not sure if it is more rumor or fact

Third. If this type of product is the best idea, is the one i posted ok or are there other models/brands that are recommended.

Thanks

[bonsaiguitar]

I have mine just sitting on top of my plasma. It's actually quite sturdy but I'm replacing it with a larger speaker soon. I was going through the same thing. I'm going to put a shelf on the wall above and behind the tv and put a foot under the speaker to angle it down a bit towards ear level.

I had my smaller Cambridge Soundworks center under the tv on a shelf but no longer have that space and it didn't sound as good there. There are also center speaker stand to place them in front, but with my setup it would block the remote etc.

[musicman1999]

I have a 20+ pound center speaker so i have a floor stand for it and it sounds far better down low than it did on top of the tv.Also the tweeters are much closer to the tweeters of the other front speakers and this is key to good sound.Get your tweeters as close to level as you can and give the center a solid base,sitting on top of a big plastic tv is not the best.

bill

[EdwardGein]

The title reminds me of the old standard, who is the Frankin Roosevelt Building named after?
Answer: Joe Building.

Anyway, unless your center speaker is too large for the top of the TV, I'd put it right on top, you don't need a shelf. Alternatively, you might just buy for $85 or so, an Orb Mod 1 speaker & use that for the center speaker on top of the TV. I live in am Apartment as well & I have 2 Orb Mod 1 5.1 systems including the sub.

Musicman do you have a photo you can put on here on your center speaker. I'm trying to visualize how you can have one on a stand in front of the middle of your TV without it interfering/distracting from your viewing.

[bonsaiguitar]

I tried mine on the tv stand in front of the TV (it blocked the remote for tv operation) and on the shelf under the TV and it sounds far better up top.

I can understand why you would want your front or main tweeters at the same level. I have my rears at 40" and that is also much better sounding to me than they were at 30".

I also notice in the gallery than many others have their center speaker on top of the TV. And they obviously make shelfs and stand just for this. Not sure about problems with plastic but mine is aluminum so it's not a problem. The speaker is just heavy enough to keep it steady and it would take quite a bump to cause it to fall. I can slide the whole system away from the wall and it stays put just fine. And did I mention is sounds better? ;)

[musicman1999]

Ed
sorry i am having camaera problems right now so i can't send you a picture,but i think you misunderstood,the top of the center speaker is only twenty inches from the floor and tilted up to the listening position.The television picture starts about 24 inches from the floor so no problem with seeing anything.The stand was custom made for me by my local audio shop.I will send you a picture when i can.

bill

[EdwardGein]

Sorry, I forgot to realize that you guys might have your TV on a Stand as my 48" Mitsubishi
HD TV is a rear projection type that isn't on a stand. Obviously in my set up, I can't place a stand in front of it or even have a speaker below it.

[wrongway15]

yeah the tv will be on a stand...and at about 25lbs i dont know if i want to put that weight on top of the tv or not. i guess i will just have to think about putting it on a shelf below the tv for know (a stand in front would take up took much retail between the coffee table and tv). i wish i could find some sort of stand the went behind the tv and then had a shelf going over it.

[EdwardGein]

Not being critical, so don't take this personal but are you sure a 30" HDTV is big enough for your living room? I'm asking because my second HDTV which was in my bedroom using my
dresser as its stand was 30"& the picture was way to small for me & so I got a 34" Panasonic HDTV which is the perfect size for that room. Anyway, if your speaker will rest on the TV comfortably & not fall off unless you tiuch it, I'd leave it there. I don't think the weight is going to harm the TV. I'd call the manufacturer though to double check. If not & you want to keep the speaker the stand you listed on your thread is fine & I'm sure there are plenty of others. As I live in an apartment too, I'd recommend if you're not on the first floor, getting a heavy duty isolation pad to put under your sub & also get from Auralex, a sub isolation rise called the subdude. These will help with the sub vibrations. Good luck.

[musicman1999]

Ed
No the stand is for the speaker,my tv is a 51 inch Toshiba crt rear projection that sits on the floor and i have no problems with the speaker in front of my set.Works great.

bill

[likeitloud]

On top of the tv works for me. The self I use has suction feet on the front, and adjustabe
legs on the back to level it. I set the speaker on the self with velcro front and back. My
tv is on a swivel plater, and the speaker has never moved. The self was purchased
at a partner store (Dynamic Solutions) Good Luck

Pioneer VSX1015TX
JBL Northridge E150 Powered Sub
JBL 4410A Studio Monitors(Front)
JBL Northridge E30(Surrounds)
JBL Cinema Vison CVCEN50 Center
JBL Northridge Satellites(Back Channel)
Pioneer Elite DV45A DVDA/SACD
Panasonic DVD F86K
Sony RCD W500C CD PLAYER/REC
AR Interconnects
Cobalt 14G Wire
Sanus Stands
XBOX 360 (Just Added)

As Long As My Brain And Fingers Work I'm Cool...Edward Van Halen

[EdwardGein]

Whenever you have a chance MusicMan please put a photo of it on here or send me one as I'm trying to visualize it. Thanks

[bonsaiguitar]

yeah the tv will be on a stand...and at about 25lbs i dont know if i want to put that weight on top of the tv or not. i guess i will just have to think about putting it on a shelf below the tv for know (a stand in front would take up took much retail between the coffee table and tv). i wish i could find some sort of stand the went behind the tv and then had a shelf going over it.

You could also put a small piece of wood or other stiff material on the TV under the speaker if you're worried about messing up your TV.

[wrongway15]

the 30" is big enough for the room, but id def. like bigger. I hope this tv is only temporary because i am hoping to buy a house soon. i orginally bought a 42" plasma, but as i was walking out the door, the salesperson stopped me and said my they were having "issues" with my card (even though the transaction went through and i signed the slip). they sales mgr said he could not get a hold of the bank...and yes, i had my bill paid. i had just moved, so they said it could be a problem with my card working out of state? what a bunch of bs...anyways, i went home empty handed then chickened out on buying because i heard so many horror stories about standard cable being almost unwatchable in some situations on a plasma. i have the 30" 16:9 format for now and hopefully next year i get a house, big living room, and 50" palsma.

[bonsaiguitar]

the 30" is big enough for the room, but id def. like bigger. I hope this tv is only temporary because i am hoping to buy a house soon. i orginally bought a 42" plasma, but as i was walking out the door, the salesperson stopped me and said my they were having "issues" with my card (even though the transaction went through and i signed the slip). they sales mgr said he could not get a hold of the bank...and yes, i had my bill paid. i had just moved, so they said it could be a problem with my card working out of state? what a bunch of bs...anyways, i went home empty handed then chickened out on buying because i heard so many horror stories about standard cable being almost unwatchable in some situations on a plasma. i have the 30" 16:9 format for now and hopefully next year i get a house, big living room, and 50" palsma.

I have a 42" plasma over a year old and Time Warner cable. No issues at all. I've never even heard that before. This is by far the best TV I've ever owned and the size is perfect. I actually downsized from a 54" because it just felt like it was in my face. 15' x 28' room too.

[topspeed]

Hershon,

Not to speak for Musicman, but I believe the cc stand he's using is something like this:

http://www.avrev.com/gifs/paradigms8/C5-1.jpg

It's just like any other speaker stand, just wider, lower, and usually tilted up to support a cc.

BOT,
When I switched to a flat panel, I moved my cc to below my set inside the tv stand. The narrow profiles of today's flat panels make putting a large (30lb) cc a dicey proposition at best. Thankfully, right before I was about to call a cabinet maker to custom build a shelf, I found a stand large enough to accommodate my cc underneath the set from...of all places...Best Buy! A $35 Auralex Mopad isolated the cc and placed it at a nice tilt with the tweeter pointing towards the sweet spot. Viola! For me, the sound was much better than when I had it on top of my previous set, even though it was tilted down towards the listening position.

[bonsaiguitar]

That's what I was figuring. I couldn't use such a stand because it would block my receiver, DVD player and cable box which are all under the TV in the TV stand shelves.

I believe for this setup being in an apartment about the best thing you can do is put it on top of your TV with either a shelf made for this if your TV has the depth for such a stand (my flat panel plasma is too thin for these) or with a board or something else to keep it from putting too much weight in any give area on the TV top, though I doubt it would hurt it. If you were in your own home you could simply make a book type shelf above and behind the TV.

[EdwardGein]

Nice people. I bought a subwoofer stand from them for around $50 plus shipping. They show up on Ebay once in a while & you can get them for $15 or so less. The subwoofer stand called the subdude, which I have over my heavy duty isolation matt (around $150 ot so from Acoustical Solutions) really helped with the acoustic problems I was having with my sub in my closed in medium sized bedroom. In the living room which is a larger open area I have my sub just over a heavy duty isolation matt & never had acoustical problems with it. As I live in an apartment, the subdude & the isolation pad, help to a decent degree from the sub bothering my neighbors.

In regards to the picture of the stand, personally, anything in front of my TV, even if it was lower down, I think would distract me.

I have HD service through Time Warner & its great. They also provide you with an HD DVR for all of $10 a month & I have 2 of them. That store you mentioned sounds nuts. I can't comment on a plasma but if you have room- an average size living room is enough room, you can get a really great rear projection HD TV between 40 -52" or so for less then a $1,000. My 34" Panasonic CRT HD TV which I love was around $1150 on sale at Circuit City including delivery & installation & to me was a bargain.

[musicman1999]

Thanks Topspeed,mine is very similar,just a little smaller.I use foam rubber balls sliced in half to tilt the speaker to my listening position.
To those that must use shelfs and such above the tv,try not to have the speaker behind the front plane of the tv screen as this will cause unwanted sound reflection off the top of the tv.
Ed,do you mean it will distract you visually,having the center on the floor?

bill

ed

here's a photo

[EdwardGein]

I appologize for this. I just used my cell phone camera & didn't bother using photo shot on these to make them better but am just including to give you guys a general idea of my living room set up with the 48" Mitsubishi HD, my Orb Mod 1 5.1 set up, DVD player, HD DVR, 3801 Receiver & Pioneer PD-59 CD player. Basically the first photo shows the Orb speaker on top of my TV by my DVR & Receiver & DVD player & my left & right front speakers on 2 24" Omnimount Cosmic 24" Silver Stands by my Orb Superewight Sub which is over a heavy duty isolation matt. The CD player is on a furniture stand to the right of the TV. For me, anything directly in front of my TV would visually distract me. On the second photo are the 2 rear Orb Speakers to each side of me on the glass end tables to the left & right of my couch, on 2" $5 nick nacks I got at a place called Tuesdays in LA's. I could of course make the speakers higher, but cosmetically I prefer them the way it is. Basically the center of the sofa is facing the center on the TV & center speaker & is pretty equi distant from the other speakers. Oh, & the Monster Power Center is hidden in the first photo but it is in back of the sub & TV.

PS How can I attach my photos like you guys so you don't have to click them on to show?

[musicman1999]

No worse than my low-rez photo.Mine was just a screen grab from a video camera,i am just not into photography.
Looked at your photos and had a couple of thoughts,have you thought of having the screen protecter removed from your tv?It would get rid of the glare.Also your results would improve with a dedicated stand for your gear
instead of using the top of the tv.Vibration control does make a difference,especially for the disc players.I have never found my center to be a distraction,lights are off when watching films.

thanks
bill

[EdwardGein]

I don't really have glare that I actually notice. In the photo it was probably cause I put all the lights on. The TV was off & there were just reflections off it. There actually I don't think is a screen protector on their.. When I watch TV its always with all the lights off. Long term habit.

Interesting point you made about vibrations that I never really took into account for. Coud the receiver itslelf be affected by vibrations? The DVR/HD Receiver isn't affected & as to the DVD
player which I only use for DVDs now, I'm fine with that. My CD player is in a seperate stationary stand & as I said, unless the vibrations affect the receiver, I'm OK but let me know if they could & I may reassess things.

[topspeed]

Sound? I'm more concerned about the long term affects of a heavy avr on top of the plastic chassis of your TV, Hersh. I have know idea how strong that casing is, but I'd be careful it doesn't bow out your screen.

Beautiful JML's musicman.:thumbsup: (just clean up your cables ;) )

[paul_pci]

Sound? I'm more concerned about the long term affects of a heavy avr on top of the plastic chassis of your TV, Hersh. I have know idea how strong that casing is, but I'd be careful it doesn't bow out your screen.

Beautiful JML's musicman.:thumbsup: (just clean up your cables ;) )

The casing is pretty strong. My father has the same tv, but bigger: 65" and we have everything piled on it and it seems sturdy enough.

[musicman1999]

Thanks Topspeed,the 806's that you see are about to go to the back and be replaced by 816's.As for cables,yeah i know,just never seem to get around to it.Cables behind my gear rack are much better.


bill

[bonsaiguitar]

Thanks Topspeed,the 806's that you see are about to go to the back and be replaced by 816's.As for cables,yeah i know,just never seem to get around to it.Cables behind my gear rack are much better.


bill

I know what you mean. I'm pulling my system away from the wall this weekenda dn going at em with the cable ties.

EdwardGein, Your setup wouldn't have much of a problem with a center on a stand, for an example.

[wrongway15]

how "bad" would the sound be if i put the center in something like this
http://www.htmarket.com/pedtelstanan.html

would it be OK/acceptable...my system and ears arent perfect...the center would be a paradigm cc370 ~25lbs i think

id like to build a shelf to wrap around the tube part of the tv, but i dont know how to support the base

[wrongway15]

Maybe i could leave off the top shelf...then id still have the base and 1 shelf for components
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6698656&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03116&id=1083712642058

Do you think the top shelf could support a 30"CRT under 130lbs? it says up to 32" tvs up to 145lbs....hmmm i woudl have the center about ear level (below tv) and two shelves for the rest of my gear...i dont like the look and the GF would kill me for putting it in our apt., but it is FUNCTIONAL...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7632216&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03116&id=1130986703928

[topspeed]

We're talking about furniture here, friend. Do NOT put something in your living room that you or your girlfriend/wife doesn't like. You're going to be looking at it every single day, remember that. And No...you won't get used to it.

There are a ton of manufacturers and you have a lot of options. Exercise a little patience and do your research. Sanus makes nice stands as does Bell'O. I actually purchased my stand from BB and have been pretty happy with it. It was this RTA model (http://www.rta-furniture-online.com/studiorta_RTA206A.html) in solid cherry (although it was a lot lower and wider for flat panels). It matches my decor pretty well and is very sturdy. I removed the upper glass shelf on one side and my cc takes up the entire right side, beneath the set. It isn't perfectly centered, but then again neither am I :D.

Mine looks a lot more like the Mission model

http://www.RTA-furniture-online.com/xmodels/studiorta/RTA60176h.jpg

[topspeed]

Just found this Salamander stand (http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SAL202MA) on audioadvisor.com and thought this might work for you. It's a heckuva price and Salamander makes pretty nice furniture. Check it out.

[wrongway15]

topspeed...that stand is nice, but i couldnt stand the center being off center (froma visual point...i like things very symetrical) and your right about not buying something i hate.

the salamander stand seems like a steel...no wonder theres none in stock...i think i woulda bought the walnut one.

i am on a budget here considering the $100 +-$50 range if possible

[bonsaiguitar]

I bought mine off Ebay cheap. It has a gray solid steel frame and three glass shelves. I paid about $200 less than any of the stores like Circuit City, Best Buy etc, and even the online discount stores. Mine is simular to those posted above. Even has spiked feet.

[Woochifer]

I think the whole concept of the horizontal center speaker will need to be reexamined as the market increasingly moves towards narrow profile big screen TVs that, for any number of reasons, cannot accommodate a large speaker sitting on top. In actuality, if you have a wall-mounted TV or use a front projector, you probably don't need to use horizontal center speaker at all, because without a TV stand or bulky cabinet taking up the center floor space along your front wall, you have the option of using three identical speakers up front. For timbre matching and alignment, you can't beat using identical speakers for the L/C/R channels.

The horizontal center speaker is one of those compromised designs that date back to the Dolby Pro Logic days, and nearly all TVs were CRT-based. Those large bulky cabinets gobbled up the ideal spaces where a center speaker should go, but they could support the weight and heft of a center speaker laid on its side, so that design was born.

Nowadays, the bulky TV cabinet designs that necessitated the horizontal center speaker in the first place are rapidly phasing out. Speaker manufacturers have responded to some degree by coming out with on-wall speakers designed to complement wall-mounted flat panel TVs.

But, the ideal approach is to accommodate three identical speakers up front, while somehow accommodating the TV, even if it is not wall mounted. To this end, the companies that manufacture the TV cabinets and stands should try something new that can accommodate either a horizontal center speaker or a third main speaker in the middle, while placing those speakers into a better alignment (with the tweeters at level with the with L/R mains) and not having to enclose the speaker (which potentially creates resonances). I would like to see more adjustable/modular systems with an open middle area and adjustments for the TV height and angle, so that the speaker does not interfere with the TV viewing.

For those of us with existing investments in center speakers, the floor stand is a good approach, but it rates very low on the WAF (unless the TV is wall-mounted or front projected). Eventually when I change TVs, I'll probably wind up using a 30" Salamander double wide cabinet and the flat panel TV mount (just wall mounting and leaving the middle open for a third main speaker or a stand mounted center speaker would not work with my wife because she wants more storage space in the living room). This would allow me to simply place my center speaker on top of the cabinet and raise the flat panel TV high enough to fit the center speaker underneath without having to enclose the speaker. Salamander's modular stands also have a riser available that elevates the TV and creates a space for the center speaker.

[bonsaiguitar]

Unfortunatly for my setup having the speaker either way only works on top right now. I'm actually considering other Plasma stands with higher shelves to accomodate the larger ceneter channel I just installed. I may still go with the overhead shelf since it sounds best where it is. I don't have a problem with the tweeters being about a foot higher than the mains, it actually seperates the sounds better to me.

The Klipsch RC-25 is up top now and works fine there. It's pretty steady, but I don't care for the look. Maybe I'll get use to it, I hope.

Now what to do for the surrounds for the 7.1 setup. I'll even have a harder time placing them.

[Hyfi]

For now I am limited on where to put mine. I was going to build a custom shelf to sit on the TV but after reading a few posts decided to try standing it verticle and agling it towards the correct hieght for listening. So far so good. This is my first attempt at HT and I am using my main system for the fronts via pre-outs and controlling all from the AVR.