Am I the only one around here that thinks the new BTS...

[Stone]

. . . is tiring?

They have such a good song with the Dinosaur Jr.-esque "Conventional Wisdom" and then ruin it by launching into this guitar noodling that lasts a number of minutes. They do this with a number of songs (at various places in the songs), and I think they could have made a very good record without inserting all of that. Plus the ska breakdown at the end of one of the songs is cool, then they ruin it with a fade out. It's a very frustrating album.

[Stone]

I knew you'd all agree.

[Stone]

I'll stick with this, thank you:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00003ZA79.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Stone]

or even this, for that matter:


http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd100/d164/d1641901p5p.jpg

[3-LockBox]

. . . is tiring?

They have such a good song with the Dinosaur Jr.-esque "Conventional Wisdom" and then ruin it by launching into this guitar noodling that lasts a number of minutes. They do this with a number of songs (at various places in the songs), and I think they could have made a very good record without inserting all of that. Plus the ska breakdown at the end of one of the songs is cool, then they ruin it with a fade out. It's a very frustrating album.

This is kinda what I was saying a month or so ago, when (clears throat) someone else stated that the new album was a return to their older material like Perfect From Now On or older. I was a big fan of albums like Keep It Like A Secret and Ancient Melodies From The Future. But I felt that PFNO was tiring, the same way I can't listen through a whole Neil Young album from about '90 or newer. Guitar playing is one thing, but 4 or 5 minutes of overdrive distortion and flange on one long sustained harmonic or note and I'm outta there. Neil Young does it cuz he's a hamfisted guitar player. I don't find any of it ambient or atmospheric.

Unless of course its PT.

[Davey]

What I find tiring is people that complain when a song runs over 3 minutes. You two need to buy an attention span already!

http://forums.audioreview.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I can't get enough of Martsch myself, so I'd probably be content to listen to him noodling out a 20 minute Brady Bunch theme. Different strokes. Perfect From Now On lives up to its name better than any album I know of in the last 10 years, and other than a couple of quick fadeouts, and a couple songs that don't have much memorable going on, I've no real meaningful complaints with You In Reverse. The only real problem with it for many of us, is that once you've reached the top, where ya gonna go next? It's a letdown in that it's not the best they've done, but it's still a very good album to me, and the most enjoyable overall since PFNO. Just could use a dash more of that mystical and magical vibe they had going strong back then.

[3-LockBox]

Different strokes.

Or maybe The Facts Of Life

[Davey]

Or maybe The Facts Of Life
Yeah, the golden age of television. Amazing that such dreck lives on in pop culture. Isn't there another reunion show on the horizon, or something? But what is so appealing about PFNO to many of us seems to be just the opposite of the simple ham-fisted guitar music you talk about, so that's the only reason we go back and forth on the topic. The guitar lines are snaky and interwoven, kind of like the double helix type mystical mumbo jumbo in the lyrics that sometimes read a bit silly, but sound so right in context of the music. There are interesting and memorable little guitar interludes throughout, and they always seem to be going in multiple directions at once, giving it lots of texture and depth. Some of the songs seem to morph into almost a completely different idea as they move along. I just don't hear that much of the feedback sustained notes, although there was more of that on their debut. But PFNO furthered the more concise songwriting from their second album, expanding the songs with a more experimental and progressive structure including mellotron and cello and other instruments added to the guitar layers. But yeah, completely different style from people like Steve Wilson, and BTS does borrow a lot from the Neil Young songbook.

Not that it matters much in the big picture. We all like what we like and it's all completely subjective, regardless of how we try and try to objectively talk about elements of the music. PFNO has a certain mystique that a lot of us find very rare in music, something almost impossible to adequately describe in words, although the opening song comes close, and so it holds a special place in our mind. Definitely happy that it works for me. But nothing wrong with liking their more pop oriented albums more. I tend to unashamedly love them all, even though Doug describes Ancient Melodies as a contractual obligation that he's not too proud of. Still sounds good to me, just not the depth of their best stuff, including IMO much of this new one. A lot of people don't seem to like it much, so I doubt you guys are really all that alone in your opinions. And yeah, "Conventional Wisdom" is one of the songs I'd toss. Comes out sounding kind of like Journey or something, not very interesting. But funny you'd bring up Dinosaur Jr. Stone, since Mascis helped bring back the guitar solo to indie type music and I think Martsch has said that he comes from the school of J. Mascis (and Neil Young), being more about the feel than the virtuosity. Just checked and there's some pretty low ratings at http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/builttospill/youinreverse mixed in with some pretty high ones.

[Slosh]

I'll take a swipe at this subject


with a single feather


once every ten thousand years

[Davey]

I'll take a swipe at this subject


with a single feather


once every ten thousand years
Yeah I'd say that's a long time, but it's only half a blink, in the place you're gonna be, where you gonna be, where will you spend eternity? I'm gonna be perfect from now on.

I read one time where Doug said there really was a guy named Randy (can't remember if it was a minister or such) that described eternity to him with that analogy, the huge metal ball that only comes around once every 10,000 years, wearing it down to the size of a pea by giving it one swipe of a feather each time, just a little tiny bit of eternity. Guess there could be some religious symbolism, with the impossibility of imagining the scope and dimensions of the universe. And how small we mere mortals are :)

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Davey's right, everybody else, well.... And I'm right too 'cause I agree with Davey.

[Stone]

What I find tiring is people that complain when a song runs over 3 minutes. You two need to buy an attention span already!

http://forums.audioreview.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

He he. Yeah, that's part of it. But if a song has something to offer for 8 or 10 minutes, then I'm all about it. I really do like some longer songs like Jane's Addiction's "Three Days" (the buildup in that song is fantastic), the Fiery Furnaces' songs, and Sigur Ros, just to name a few. But the guitar noodling for the sake of guitar noodling doesn't do it for me.




I can't get enough of Martsch myself, so I'd probably be content to listen to him noodling out a 20 minute Brady Bunch theme. Different strokes.

Yep. I get bored with the noodling in a hurry. I mean, noodle for 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes, k? I, for one, get bored with it.



But funny you'd bring up Dinosaur Jr. Stone, since Mascis helped bring back the guitar solo to indie type music and I think Martsch has said that he comes from the school of J. Mascis (and Neil Young), being more about the feel than the virtuosity.

J. Mascis did bring back the guitar sound and soloing to indie rock, but most of his songs don't last for 8 minutes. "Conventional Wisdom" is a song I like for the most part, and reminds me of Dino Jr. at the beginning because it basically has the guitar doing the singing. Toward the middle and end, it loses this and just goes into some guitar solo stuff for a matter of minutes, that seems to have no real reason or connection to the rest of the song. I don't get it. Just not my cuppa, I guess.

[3-LockBox]

So...

[Davey]

So...

Yea, no kidding! That Davey guy sure used to spread the manure around here, eh? Whatever happened to Stone? Guess he must've given up on this place.