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ssarm@mac.com
06-14-2006, 12:08 PM
I will most likely be buying a stanton t50. I have an adcom 545 II amp, an adcom 555 II preamp, and a pair of paradigm atoms. I'm looking for a solid cartridge under $40. I've heard that Grado and Stanton could be good options. Do you guys have any recommendations? I'm going to be using my TT only for personal playback.

Thanks.

JohnMichael
06-14-2006, 12:30 PM
I will most likely be buying a stanton t50. I have an adcom 545 II amp, an adcom 555 II preamp, and a pair of paradigm atoms. I'm looking for a solid cartridge under $40. I've heard that Grado and Stanton could be good options. Do you guys have any recommendations? I'm going to be using my TT only for personal playback.

Thanks.


A cartridge that is close to your price range is the Audio Technica AT95E. It sells for around $50. You can find it at www.amusicdirect.com or www.needledoctor.com. I have only heard AT's more expensive cartridges but they have always been well made and good sounding.

dean_martin
06-14-2006, 01:16 PM
I recently put a Grado Black ($40) on an older, cheap Technics table that I had retired. The thing sounded dull and lifeless with the Shure m92e I had on it. The Black brought more energy and excitement to music. It's especially good with rock. I got it at www.acousticsounds.com just before Christmas. It was on sale. With the discount I essentially got free shipping.

The AT95E recommended by JM can be found at www.lpgear.com also. I'm thinking of trying the AT120E as an extra for my main table.

jrhymeammo
06-15-2006, 06:05 AM
Call this company and see if they still have any cart for sale at price advertised.

From my personal experience, I would stay away form Sumiko Oyster. It didnt produce clear sound in my system.
http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b801f437293ff002b224088886cdf 1dafb16bba.e3eTaxiPc3mTe3iMbheQc30Kai1ynknvrkLOlQz Np65In0?sc=12

emaidel
06-20-2006, 05:40 AM
If I were you, I'd budget more for a cartridge than $40. While there are significant sonic differences between turntables, the differences in cartrdiges is of a considerably higher order, and spending more for a better cartridge can result in a dramatic sonic improvement.

Insofar as your choice of turntable, the current Stanton tables are designed primarily for DJ's,. and I'd recommend looking elsewhere. the same goes for Numark turntables, and most definitely any from Gemini, which are usually cheap copies of some other DJ company's design. Certainly The Needle Doctor is one place to go, but you can find some pretty good deals on very good vintage Dual turntables on eBay, as well as other brands.

If you're a DJ, then forget what I said, and go for a Technics Sl-1200, the leader of the pack, and an Ortofon Concorde plug-in model..

royphil345
06-20-2006, 11:38 PM
The Stanton t50 is not what you want for casual listening. It has the straight DJ tonearm with a straight headshell. You'd have to stick with a conical stylus to prevent excessive record wear. Can't get good, detailed sound with a conical stylus.

Here's what you want for good, cheap, entry-level casual listening. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012EYNG/sr=8-4/qid=1150872605/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-3776239-8174415?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Tonearm is a standard S type suitable for casual listening with low distortion and record wear. The included Audio Technica cartridge has an elliptical stylus and is reported to sound decent. Only downside is that it is a DJ type cartridge and tracks on the heavy side. Would simply replace it when the stylus wears out instead of replacing the stylus (possibly with a Grado Green or a Shure M97xE).

This table is also quarts-locked direct drive. Belt drive will yield better and quieter results on a true high-end table. But in my experience, I find that cheaper belt drive tables just can't hold their speed properly and you're better off with direct drive in this price range.

The Audio Technica table is built quite well for the money considering a usable cartridge is included. Table even accepts standard headshells for S-shaped tonearms, has 78 RPM capability, and has a built-in preamp (switchable). What more could you ask for in an inexpensive turntable? Many happy buyers.

ssarm@mac.com
06-22-2006, 09:48 PM
I haven't bought the TT yet, thanks for letting me know about that.

I already have a preamp though, an adcom GFP 555 that I got off of ebay. Are there any good turntables without an internal preamp, to save me some money? I'm on a college student budget right now.

I'm not DJing, just using the TT in my room.

Thanks for the help guys.

royphil345
06-23-2006, 12:52 AM
The only other direct drive turntables I know of with standard tonearms and no built-in phono preamp cost more than the Audio Technica. It really is a steal. Especially considering that the Audio Technica cartridge is said to be quite listenable. The extra $50.00 over what you were looking at + cartridge would really be worth it performance-wise. I cant stress enough how bad the speed drift usually is on cheap belt-drive DJ tables.

In the past, I would have recommended picking up just about any old $50.00 - $100.00 quartz-locked direct drive table from Technics, Sony, etc... on eBay as the best solution on the lowest budget possible. Most of these tables were built very well and will outperform anything you can buy now for much more money. Slap on a Grado Black or AT95E and you have a very nice entry-level rig. If you could get a table cheap enough to have room in your budget for a Shure M97xE, I think you'd be VERY pleased with the results.

Problem is... I've since had two people throw turntables in boxes with no packing material whatsoever and send them regular mail, uninsured, completely destroying the turntables. The second one I specifically asked if they would pack it properly and gave detailed instructions on how to do it. I even offered a little extra money to cover shipping materials and the extra effort. They said they would pack it properly, but didn't. Didn't want to refund my money either!!! These two experiences in a row really turned me off to eBay and PayPal for not helping me get my money back after being sent boxes of junk. I have to believe I was deliberately scammed due to the fact that the tables were shipped unprotected using the ONLY method you don't get some kind of insurance included.

Although... I do have a beautiful Sony PS-X5 I got off eBay for less than $50.00 . AWESOME TABLE!!!

You can get a nice table on eBay cheap, but you're taking your chances as well. If you go that route, ALWAYS pay by PayPal using a credit card from an issuer who will reverse PayPal charges at your request (check with your credit card company).


Here's an example of what I'd be checking out on eBay right now if going that route. I see that the quartz-locked tables from Technics are becoming more scarce as people buy them and hold onto them. The last few listings are for non quartz-locked direct drive tables from Technics that will still outperform the Stanton table you were looking at and generally sell very cheap. The Sony PS-X50 is a nice "sleeper" table capable of almost high-end performance. Even has adjustable tonearm height. Usually sell for much less than they're worth. All of these tables will lift the needle and shut themselves off at the end of a record, unlike today's DJ or "budget high end" tables. I've found this feature to be EXTREMELY convenient.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-SONY-PS-X50-STEREO-TURN-TABLE-RECORD-PLAYER_W0QQitemZ9744881144QQcategoryZ3283QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Classic-SONY-PS-X600-BIOTRACER-Automatic-Turntable_W0QQitemZ320000520622QQcategoryZ3283QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-NICE-TECHNICS-QUARTZ-TURN-TABLE_W0QQitemZ9743147166QQihZ008QQcategoryZ64626Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TECHNICS-SL-5300-DIRECT-DRIVE-QUARTZ-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ9744519603QQihZ008QQcategoryZ64 626QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-5300-Direct-Drive-Automatic-Turntable-Nice_W0QQitemZ260000868372QQihZ016QQcategoryZ64626 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TECHNICS-SL-D1-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ200000846354QQihZ010QQcategoryZ646 26QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-D2-Direct-Drive-Turntable-w-Orginal-Box_W0QQitemZ9743928068QQcategoryZ64626QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SL-3200-TURNTABLE-DIRECT-DRIVE-RECORD-PLAYER_W0QQitemZ140000456976QQcategoryZ64626QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-Turntable-SL-D3-Vintage_W0QQitemZ160000816710QQcategoryZ64626QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

ssarm@mac.com
06-24-2006, 08:29 PM
Thanks a lot for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Hopefully in a week or two I'll have my first system all setup and cranking

royphil345
06-25-2006, 11:36 AM
Hey ssarm...

Saw you bid on the Sony PS-X50.

I just looked at the blurry picture again and noticed that the counterweight is missing from the back of the tonearm. It's the weight that threads onto the back of the tonearm to balance it and adjust the stylus pressure.

Here's a link to a picture of a turntable in the same series so you can see what's missing from the back of the tonearm. http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyvault/PSX60/PSX60.html

If the seller doesn't have it, you need to retract your bid. Sorry I didn't catch that the first time I looked at it. I noticed that one of the Technics tables was lacking a headshell, but that's no big deal. I could send you one of those. Counterweight for a PS-X50 no can do!!!

"Excellent condition" my butt!!! See?... That's why I lost faith in eBay and no longer indulge.

Hope you see this. I'm going to try to send you an e-mail also. Don't want to be responsible for getting you into a bad deal. Let me know if you saw this.

jrhymeammo
06-25-2006, 09:13 PM
Hey ssarm...

Saw you bid on the Sony PS-X50.

I just looked at the blurry picture again and noticed that the counterweight is missing from the back of the tonearm. It's the weight that threads onto the back of the tonearm to balance it and adjust the stylus pressure.

Here's a link to a picture of a turntable in the same series so you can see what's missing from the back of the tonearm. http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyvault/PSX60/PSX60.html

If the seller doesn't have it, you need to retract your bid. Sorry I didn't catch that the first time I looked at it. I noticed that one of the Technics tables was lacking a headshell, but that's no big deal. I could send you one of those. Counterweight for a PS-X50 no can do!!!

"Excellent condition" my butt!!! See?... That's why I lost faith in eBay and no longer indulge.

Hope you see this. I'm going to try to send you an e-mail also. Don't want to be responsible for getting you into a bad deal. Let me know if you saw this.


How do you retract bid on Ebay?

royphil345
06-26-2006, 01:07 AM
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/questions/retract-bid.html

Wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary.

If the seller doesn't have the counterweight... this item is clearly not in "excellent" or "working" condition as described though. The auction is a fraud (intentionally or unintentionally) and I sure wouldn't feel the need to complete my end of the deal no matter what.

The seller has pretty good feedback, so it could be that he just doesn't know the table's missing a part. Would probably understand the buyer not wanting to go through with the deal when the description is false.

I really hope ssarm comes back to see this thread before it's too late!!!

ssarm@mac.com
06-27-2006, 05:53 PM
Yes yes, I found out the problem, and steered away clear. You guys are really awesome.

For my future eBay hunting, I found this good page with all vintage technics TTs.

http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables.htm

Can you guess just give me a general overview of the top of each column, how it affects the performance. I'm not looking for anything super hi-po, but I want to make sure the price justifies what I decide to buy.

I'm just using the piece for private listening in my bedroom.


You guys are great, thanks.

royphil345
06-27-2006, 07:53 PM
That's a nice resource you found.

The wow and flutter specs are a measurement of slight speed variations of the platter. Lower numbers are better. On the lower-priced DJ tables and even some of the "budget high end" tables of today the specs are often over .1% which isn't that great. All of the Technics tables offer much better specs than that.

The "rumble" specs they list are like signal to noise ratio. Higher is better. Higher numbers on the more expensive tables.

The quartz locked tables monitor the speed of the platter and make constant adjustments. The servo controlled tables have circuitry to keep the platter's speed steady in case of minor power supply fluctuations, but speed can drift a little. This can be a problem especially on "cheapie" belt-drive tables.

The speed inaccuracy spec is how far the table can drift off it's set speed. Lower is better.

The speed adjustment spec is just the range of adjustment possible using the pitch control.

Manual tables don't lift the needle at the end of a record, semi-automatic do, fully automatic will start playing at the push of a button.

There are some Technics tables out there that take a P - mount cartridge which plugs into the headshell. I would generally avoid those because it limits your cartridge selection and the stylus pressure and anti-skate are usually factory set and not adjustable. Although, in the low price-range you're looking in, there are several good P-mount cartridges available and you wouldn't have to worry about cartridge alignment. Might actually be something to consider. Also usually sell for less $. Here's an example of one http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-QD3-Quartz-Turntable_W0QQitemZ110002622832QQihZ001QQcategoryZ 64626QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem This one's actually quartz - locked too... hmmm...

Think that explains about everything on the chart that's not self - explanatory.

Also remember that cartridges generally don't wear out with age. If a turntable has a decent cartridge on it that you can still buy a stylus for... That's a plus. Check here... http://www.needledoctor.com/ and / or try a web search.

If you take your time, you should be able to get a good one at a good price. You've got a pretty good list of models to watch for. Keep your eyes open for another Sony PS-X500, PS-X600, PS-X5, or PS-X6. They all perform well. Chances are if they work when you get them, they'll work for a long time. They aren't as popular as the Technics, so you can get a deal sometimes.

Other tables to watch for that are nice and sometimes go for cheap... http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-PL-530-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ170001139513QQihZ007QQcategoryZ 64625QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem There's also a similar looking model that's quartz - locked. They've got a couple plastic tables that don't look too bad... Some are total junk though... the newer, lighter ones...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Auto-Direct-Drive-Turntable-Realistic-Lab-400_W0QQitemZ260001602021QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3283QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem You see alot of these on eBay. The best turntable Radio Shack ever sold (except for maybe their top of the line linear tracking model). They're really decent tables if you can handle the woodgrain vinyl veneer. Similar specs to a Technics direct drive. I'm sure they would outperform the Stanton you were looking at and they usually don't sell for alot. Although... I am noticing that the turntable prices on eBay are going up and the good stuff is getting harder to come by. Vinyl must really be making a comeback...

All this thinking about budget turntables has reminded me that I have an Audio Technica AT91 cartridge that came on a used table I bought and is supposedly brand new. It does appear to be. Never even tried it. It has an elliptical stylus and tracks light at 1 1/2 grams. I've used similar Audio Technicas. Sound would probably be nothing to write home about, but close to as good as anything you'll get on your budget. It's one of those cartridges that's a P-mount in an adapter so it will fit a P-mount or standard arm. You are welcome to it if it turns out to be something you need. I've got a few pricier cartridges around here to play with. No need for it.

I guess that's about it. Good luck with the hunt!!! Feel free to ask opinions about any turntables you're considering. Let us know how things turn out. Some folks here probably don't think much of my picks... I just think that when you're trying to find something for under $100.00... An old direct - drive is the safest bet for good sound.

eBay advice:

Don't bid too early and drive the price up.

Yes... this seems a little "aggressive", but if you really want to compete on eBay, check out this site... http://www.snip.pl/en/

ssarm@mac.com
06-29-2006, 09:54 PM
I was wondering what the deal was with the linear drive models.

They look to be a lot more compact, and might be better for my application. Are there any drawbacks to that design series, or is it a just-as-good alternative as the average technics direct drive?

thanks a bunch.

royphil345
06-30-2006, 11:07 AM
I honestly don't know...

Could a computer-controlled arm made in the "80s really keep the anti-skate and channel balance as steady as a simple spring? Really can't answer that... But I have my suspicions...

The affordable linear trackers almost always take a P-mount cartridge.. No problem there if you've decided to go that route.

Some people swear by 'em... The angle of the needle in the groove is always perfect. Can't argue with that.

I've found that an older, heavier table will have better isolation and less problems with feedback at higher volumes. Also steadier speed due to a heavier platter. That's why most of the models I recommended are the older, heavier models (but not the oldest, which may become unreliable). There are MANY crappy turntables out there that will just howl like crazy with feedback when you turn the volume up some. Most of the linear trackers you see on eBay these days have the cartridge mounted on the thin plastic lid close n' play style. I think these might pick up external vibrations too easily, hence the low prices and surplus of these for sale. There were better, heavier linear trackers available with the tonearm mounted on the base which are hard to come by these days.

Also... If anything goes wrong with the complicated computer-controlled tonearm... Goodnight turntable. I'd say chances of mechanical failure are far greater on an old linear tracker than on an old standard table. For that reason alone, I don't even look at them.

But, who knows?... I certainly couldn't say for sure that you wouldn't find a great one and get years of enjoyment out of it!!!

If I ever buy a linear tracker, it will be the Technics vertical turntable (even though the cartridge is mounted on the thin plastic door). You see them on eBay from time to time selling for around $200.00 I've stopped myself from buying one several times because what I'm using now would outperform it and I just don't have alot of room around here to collect stuff. There is something to be said for style though... LOL I still want one...

http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables/slv5.htm

Too cool!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-PS-X60-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-NICE-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ270002600509QQihZ017QQcategoryZ 3283QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

hifitommy
07-03-2006, 07:17 AM
they most likely have a pmount cartridge and are cheap modular tables that dont aspire th hifi. usually found with rack systems.

choose a linear only if it has a universal mount headshell. the phase linear8000/pioneer PLL1000a is a good one but NOT compact. there are some mitsubishis and sonys that are also good. compact in turntables isnt a good feature.

theres nothing wrong with the pivoted arms like those on royphil's list. good luck and have fun.