Best CD player for around 1K HELP

[vansonrider]

Hello,

Hello fellow Audio buffs. I’m looking to upgrade my CD player in my system. It’s a Sony CDP-C745 5 disk changer with optical out. I upgraded once to a HK fl8450 but the stupid thing died on me. The Sony is about 7 years old and has been faithful. I think it’s one of the weakest links in my system but I do love the changer feature. I know some audiophiles may scoff at the thought of a changer but I love the convenience. I’m willing to go single if I have to but would prefer a changer. My system is a follows.

Anthem AVM 20 1.12
Citation 7.1 x 2 amps
Revel M20 mains
Atlantic technologies center (I looking for a Revel C30)
Dynaudio audience 40 rears
Audioquest Mammoth speaker cables
Cardas interconnect to all sources
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD
JVC direct view TV
No sub I live in an apartment :mad:

I think my system is fairly good. Hey I'm trying...... :) I am willing to spend $700 to 1K on a player. Any suggestions and how should I hook it up?

Thanks
Vansonrider

[woodman]

Don't look now but IMO, you're peeing up a short rope here. If for some unknown reason you're dissatisfied with the sound of your CD playback, you will not solve it by replacing the Sony with another player no matter how much you spend for one or whether it's a single disc player or some sort of changer. The Sony is not really involved in the sound reproduction process at all. It's your Anthem AVM20 that's doing the D-to-A conversion, which is where the sounds are actually recreated - not in the "player".

Just what is there about the sound of your CDs that is disappointing you anyway? Or is it merely that you think that you have an "inferior" CD player that "ought" to be upgraded to something "better"?

[vansonrider]

Woodman,

After reading all the articles that I have it seems like the more you spend on a CD player the better the sound. I know you can spend allot and still get a piece of crap but I figured a nice used $1,000 player will give me better quality sound than what I have now. I guess I think that I need something better because I’m running a Sony outlet purchased player, about $200 when purchased, on a $3,200 processor. I’m fairly new to this stuff and figured a better player would have superior DACs than the processor. I like home theater but music is more important. The Sony has had its quirks the last few months. Sometimes when I turn it one the drawer like to come in and out about three times before it stops. X Files kind of stuff. I can also hear a hum coming from it ever now and then like the spindle is out of balance. Nothing through the speakers just from the unit itself.

Thanks for your input
Vansonrider

[woodman]

Woodman,

After reading all the articles that I have it seems like the more you spend on a CD player the better the sound. I know you can spend allot and still get a piece of crap but I figured a nice used $1,000 player will give me better quality sound than what I have now. I guess I think that I need something better because I’m running a Sony outlet purchased player, about $200 when purchased, on a $3,200 processor. I’m fairly new to this stuff and figured a better player would have superior DACs than the processor. I like home theater but music is more important. The Sony has had its quirks the last few months. Sometimes when I turn it one the drawer like to come in and out about three times before it stops. X Files kind of stuff. I can also hear a hum coming from it ever now and then like the spindle is out of balance. Nothing through the speakers just from the unit itself.

Thanks for your input
Vansonrider

You must be careful about what you choose to believe. I'm both a musician and an electronics tech/engineer with about 60 years of experience in audio, and I'm here to tell you that what you've read (and evidently decided that sounds reasonable) is seriously misleading you and taking you down a "primrose path" that leads to ..... guess where? The answer is nowhere! Don't misconstrue what I'm saying as "all CD players sound the same". What I amsaying is that whatever differences in sonic quality are to be found in "high-end" audio products is so small, tiny, minuscule, and pretty much irrelevant that it becomes little more than a scam - a hoax - a way to extract money from someone under flase pretenses. Don't fall victim to this trap!

When you say that you believe that "a better player should have superior DACs to your processor", you're making an assumption that has virtually no basis in fact. Chances are that an expensive CD player just might have the exact same DACs as your Anthem AVM-20 has! In any event, the DACs in ANY player are not liable to have DACs that are superior enough to be audible to human ears. It's ultimately your choice what to spend your money on, but I'm here to urge you to not waste your money on something that will give you virtually nothing in return for what you spend ... and an expensive CD player falls neatly and squarely into that category. Believe me ... I know what I'm talking about.

Hope this helps to save you some money

[htfan14]

Wow, by your thinking woodman, we should all just buy the $150.00 curtis HTIB from future shop and we would have stellar sound!
While I don't question the fact you have a lot more knowledge then me in this field, I do question your statement that a $200.00 Sony cd changer would have equal sound to, say a $1000.00 Arcam cd player. Maybe you could tell me why my cd's sound better in my Toshiba SD-5700 then my Sony 275 cd changer? Or why it sounds even better on a Denon 2900 dvd player? All with equal source, denon 3802 and same speakers.
Could you elaborate on this point???

[uncooked]

well i think a more expensive cd player does sound better. if you go out and buy a 70 dollar dvd player and then compare it to a 200 - 500 dollar one the picture quality is MUCH better. in the more expensive units they use higher quality parts such as the lens that picks up the sound signals much cleaner and more precise. also if you buy a cd player with twin laser pick up the sound is incredible. it never misses a thing.

[Geoffcin]

well i think a more expensive cd player does sound better. if you go out and buy a 70 dollar dvd player and then compare it to a 200 - 500 dollar one the picture quality is MUCH better. in the more expensive units they use higher quality parts such as the lens that picks up the sound signals much cleaner and more precise. also if you buy a cd player with twin laser pick up the sound is incredible. it never misses a thing.


I agree with you.

There's a feeling among several regular members of this board that you can't hear much of a difference between $100, and $1000 CD players, and it's not worth it. I am not one of them.

I spent a lot of time deciding when I upgraded my CD player, and if I didn't hear a difference there's no way I would have spent the money on it. A lot of people think that it's the DAC's that make a difference in a CD player, but that is only part of the picture. A high quality CD player uses higher quality components, more isolation materials, better shielding, ect. The end product is superior, and people are willing to pay more for a superior product. Usually they are built better, and last longer, so even if you paid $500 for your CD player, if you have it for 10-15 years or more then you have yourself a bargain!

[woodman]

... Maybe you could tell me why my cd's sound better in my Toshiba SD-5700 then my Sony 275 cd changer? Or why it sounds even better on a Denon 2900 dvd player? All with equal source, denon 3802 and same speakers.
Could you elaborate on this point???

If you're getting significantly different - or even merely detectable differences between 3 different players, that tells me that you're using the DACs within the players themselves and not feeding digital signals to the Denon A/V receiver for D-to-A conversion ... correct?

That is not what the original poster - vansonrider is doing. He's feeding digital signals into his Anthem pre-pro for the D-to-A conversion, which means that he's using his $200 Sony CD changer as just a transport. In this case, the Sony is contributing nearly zilch to the recreation of sound. It's only reading the 1s and the 0s from the disc and sending those to the Denon receiver for conversion to analog signals. It is the DAC within said receiver that's actually recreating the sounds that were recorded on the CD - the Sony changer has just about nothing to do with it. Replacing it with a "high-end" CD player in the exact same setup will change virtually nothing about the sound being recreated.

If my assumption that you're using the DACs within the 3 players and feeding analog signals to your receiver is NOT correct, then I'd say that the differences in sound that you're hearing are much more likely to be imaginary rather than real. There are other possibilities, such as laser pickups that are dirty or not functioning at an optimum level, or defective interconnects (which is a humongous "stretch" since digital interconnects usually either work or they don't - very seldom anything in between).

Does that clear things up for you better?

[htfan14]

ahh, sure, clear as mud...lol.
As I stated, everything was the same except the players, all connected using optical digi cables. There is more, as someone else stated, then the dac's when is comes to the sound quality. I don't think you're looking at the whole picture, but rather just focusing on the d/a.

[vansonrider]

:confused:

Thanks guy now I'm more confused. I think I'll change my DNA and that should make my CD player sound better. Just kidding. I took everybodies advice and split it down the middle. I opted for a used Anthem CD changer. The Sony has paid for itself but it's time to go to the closet. Maybe one day this DVD audio vs SCAD debate will be figured out. My mini disk is still waiting to take off. :p

Thanks
Oscar

[Jim Clark]

Wow, by your thinking woodman, we should all just buy the $150.00 curtis HTIB from future shop and we would have stellar sound!


No that's not what he said at all. A complete AV system in no way equates to a CDP. If you wish to extrapolate that he may believe that all CDPs connected via an optical out will sound the same when played on the same system in any given room you would probably be closer to the mark.



ahh, sure, clear as mud...lol.
As I stated, everything was the same except the players, all connected using optical digi cables. There is more, as someone else stated, then the dac's when is comes to the sound quality. I don't think you're looking at the whole picture, but rather just focusing on the d/a.

It is pretty clear if you know the role of a digital output and where the processing takes place in such a connection. Not to say that I don't believe your results, but I don't trust your comparisons especially if they were sighted. Still you have some additional variable to account for such as what mode you were running the 3802 in when you made your comparisons.

I don't think all CDPs necessarily sound the same but that's with the understanding that the processor is running in a 'direct' mode so as to not alter the signal and the analog connections are made. I think by and large the general population would fare poorly identifying differences in a blind test but I admit that it's not out of the realm of possibility.



well i think a more expensive cd player does sound better. if you go out and buy a 70 dollar dvd player and then compare it to a 200 - 500 dollar one the picture quality is MUCH better. in the more expensive units they use higher quality parts such as the lens that picks up the sound signals much cleaner and more precise. also if you buy a cd player with twin laser pick up the sound is incredible. it never misses a thing.

I think you're going to run into trouble trying to equate the visual output of any given DVDP to the audio signal via a digital connection. Apples and oranges and a very bad comparison. Also I was under the impression that twin laser pickups were developed and implemented to accomodate different media, so if you would care to elaborate on your claim it would be helpful to me.

Bottom line-if you're bound and determined to use the digital output I'll vote with Woodman every day of the week.

jc