Purchasing Home Theater System

[first timer]

I am currently researching a/v recievers and speakers to set up a home theater system. I ordered a Panasonic 50" plasma(TH50PX60U) and now need recommendations on the rest of the system. I am looking at receivers in the $1000 range(Rotel 1067, Marantz SR7500, Denon AVR3806 and Yamaha RX V2600) that are 7.1. All of the receivers have favorable reviews. Most have comparable features(HDMI etc.) Not all have THX. Which features should I consider essential and which are just good to have? I will be mostly using the receiver for music but also want the best receiver for video. Basically, the most bang for the buck. As far as speakers, I have listened to Vienna Accoustics Webern and Berg. I am looking for on wall applications. The room that the system is going in is 19'x15' with an 18' ceiling. The budget for the speakers is approx. $3000. Any recommendations would be very helpful.

[superpanavision70mm]

Sounds good thus far...I would suggest certainly the Denon receivers, Marantz, Pioneer Elite (definitely) and Boston Acoustics. Have you given any thought for PSB for the speakers? The PSB Stratus Gold's are under $2000 and the PSB Platinums are around $3500. I would highly recommend BOTH....check into them...you don't be disappointed or find much that is comparable in their price range...they blow away the competition! If you do go with PSB...you may want to check into NAD receivers...they are a great combo. You can check out dmc-electronics, which is an authorized online retailer for both companies. Way to go on getting things rolling for a sweet HT.

[superpanavision70mm]

I would suggest reading some of the reviews from this site on the psb line as well...or stereophiles site. They always give great praises as can be expected from a top of the line manufacturer.

[Woochifer]

Don't worry about the THX certification. It provides some level of assurance with regard to the specs, and some standardized design approaches with the DSP implementation and bass management, but it does not denote the superiority of one model over another.

Since your plasma set will include a HDMI connection, I would recommend that you go with a receiver that includes HDMI switching. I know that the Yamaha uses HDMI 1.1, not sure which version the others use. Just know that HDMI 1.1 allows you to use a single cable to carry the video and audio signals (CD/PCM, Dolby Digital, DTS, and DVD-Audio) from the DVD player (provided that it also uses HDMI 1.1) to the receiver.

In general, most receivers introduced since last fall will have roughly the same feature set. I think one commonly overlooked comparison that you should do is with the user interface and the remote. The differences there will generally be a lot more obvious than the performance differences, which tend to be more subtle than obvious when comparing receivers at similar price points.

With the speakers, those Viennas are probably the best on-wall speakers that I've heard, so you definitely have a good base to work from. Just make sure that you have enough budget remaining for a decent subwoofer, since on-wall speakers are generally designed with a smaller interior volume than typical bookshelf speakers, and this constrains the amount of bass that they can reproduce.

Others that you should try include the on-wall models that come from B&W, Definitive Technology, Paradigm, Energy, Klipsch, Martin Logan, Boston Acoustics, and Vandersteen. That will give you a range of different characteristics to choose from. The important thing is to match these tonal characteristics with the type of sound that best matches with your sources and preferences. PSB's frequently cited as well, but those Stratus and Platinum series speakers don't have the on-wall design that you're looking for. PSB's VisionSound models are their on-wall series. If you're willing to open up your options beyond on-wall speakers, there's a multitude of great bookshelf speaker combinations within your budget range.

Polk Audio, Yamaha, and M&K also make one-piece on-wall speakers designed to emulate a multichannel 5.1 system from a one-box design. But, those designs need a fairly rectangular room to work properly.

[EdwardGein]

It sounds like you have some dollars at your disposal and are fairly new at this. As such, I recommend for I'm guessing $200-$750, you hire someone to actually install and set up your system. This person also might make some buying recommendations to you as well, If you're left to your own devices based on your post, you in all likelyhood will waste hundreds of hours & be incredibly frustrated setting things up- i.e., accoustically a professional will probably know the best spots to place your speakers, what wires & cables to use, set the settings on your receiver & DVD player such as DB levels for each speaker, distance, bass, treble, etc.
Contrary to some opinions, wires & cables do affect sound & your best leaving things to a pro. You can usually find someone like this advertised in the Sunday paper, yellow pages & people who do this at Home Theater Stores- do not use Chain Stores for this! Once you know what you want, you should probably spend a few hours researching online for a good deal. I know you can get most electronic stuff & accessories such as cables alot cheaper on Ebay (even as a Buy it Now) or regular online merchants. Again, if you're new at this, I wouldn't leave doing all this stuff in your own hands without at least consulting with a professional & useing them to set things up.

[superpanavision70mm]

Hiring someone else to do this takes away all the fun of learning about it and really making it a passion. I think that you could get good sound advice from this site and do a little research on your own and not worry about wasting money. All of us were new at one point in time as well and I am sure we all have our memories and perhaps certain regrets about mistakes that we have made, but it's those mistakes that make you strive for something better and you learn from them. If you are considering making this a hobby of yours than I would insist that you learn as much as you can and get your hands dirty learning all about it. Go to a few hi-fi shops and ask questions and test stuff out until you have reached a point where you really love something.

[EdwardGein]

Each to their own. I know I wasted alot of money (relatively) making wrong decisions based on total ignorance, alot of time & alot of frustration because I didn't have things set up right, used the wrong equipment, wrong cables, didn't have the right accessories, had speakers set in the wrong locations, etc., and believe you me, it wasn't fun having these growing pains & I'd rather have paid someone to initially do things right. Another sexist analogy is, would you rather have Angelina Jolie or a young Sophia Loren want you instantly just because you're rich or would you rather be poor & struggle to get someone like that to even give you the time of day & then wine & dine them, etc. I'll take the easy way out any day of the week!

Also alot of information on web sites, unless you know which people to hold to give creedence too, offer vague & conflicting advice, and if you want to base things on that, especially when you don't know the people to place weight on, you're just asking for trouble.
Anyway, that's my personal opinion & if you guys fill otherwise, free country, each to their own.

[Worf101]

Another sexist analogy is, would you rather have Angelina Jolie or a young Sophia Loren want you instantly just because you're rich or would you rather be poor & struggle to get someone like that to even give you the time of day & then wine & dine them, etc. I'll take the easy way out any day of the week!.
Sexist I don't know about but that is one of the MOST confusing analogies I've ever heard here or anywhere????:confused: :confused: :confused:

Da Worfster

[JeffKnob]

Each to their own. I know I wasted alot of money (relatively) making wrong decisions based on total ignorance, alot of time & alot of frustration because I didn't have things set up right, used the wrong equipment, wrong cables, didn't have the right accessories, had speakers set in the wrong locations, etc., and believe you me, it wasn't fun having these growing pains & I'd rather have paid someone to initially do things right.

Some of this is because you stubbornly refuse to listen to the people on this site.

[L.J.]

Hiring someone else to do this takes away all the fun of learning about it and really making it a passion. I think that you could get good sound advice from this site and do a little research on your own and not worry about wasting money. All of us were new at one point in time as well and I am sure we all have our memories and perhaps certain regrets about mistakes that we have made, but it's those mistakes that make you strive for something better and you learn from them. If you are considering making this a hobby of yours than I would insist that you learn as much as you can and get your hands dirty learning all about it. Go to a few hi-fi shops and ask questions and test stuff out until you have reached a point where you really love something.

I agree.

[Eric Z]

a huge part of setting everything up yourself is learning about what you have and how it works. if you paid someone to do the initial set-up and something happens that screws something up, do you just call the set-up guy again and pay him more $$ to fix it? you could, but why not try and fix it yourself?! additionally, as you learn about how things are set-up and connected to eachother, you learn about what upgrades may help or not help your system.

yeah, i got pretty frustrated setting all of my stuff up, but wow i learned a lot!

p.s. i agree, the angelina/sophia analogy was a bit odd and confusing.

[BadAssJazz]

Each to their own. I know I wasted alot of money (relatively) making wrong decisions based on total ignorance, alot of time & alot of frustration because I didn't have things set up right, used the wrong equipment, wrong cables, didn't have the right accessories, had speakers set in the wrong locations, etc., and believe you me, it wasn't fun having these growing pains & I'd rather have paid someone to initially do things right.

I'm of the opinion that you can do both. The research should be completed by the consumer -- no matter what. Experts occasionally have their own subjective tastes and agendas as well, so it's best to be as informed as you can be before seeking their advice. After you've done your homework and met with a consultant, pull out the wallet and go for it. Some basic connections can be completed by the consumer, but I would leave installation of the in-wall speakers/HDTV (if wall mounted), acoustic refinement, and other tests to the experienced professionals.

You are right on track with the Vienna Acoustics. A former co-worker has the Schonberg as mains with the Weberns as center and surround speakers in his HT system and they sounded great. For LFE he used a Rel sub, which he'd owned prior to upgrading to the Viennas. His electronics were a hodge podge of Aragon (Stage 1 Pro and Amps), Rega (CD) and Denon (DVD player). I haven't seen him in ages, but it's probably just as well. The only thing that I liked more than his HT was his wife. Drop Dead Gorgeous!

Sorry, I digress...

I have owned the Marantz 7500 and I would suggest passing on this unit. It is excellent for video, but I wasn't at all impressed with it's performance musically, given my setup. I did an A/B comparison with my older Denon receiver and determined that with the Marantz I was missing the overall impact and tonal reproduction that I was getting with the Denon. It's possible the Marantz would have performed better with other components, but I wasn't prepared to explore further.

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.

[superpanavision70mm]

This has been a fun thread.

[first timer]

Hey, thanks for all of the good info. I picked up the Denon 3806 on Sat. I also ordered the Vienna Acoustic speakers. I chose the Schonberg for the main and the Webern for the center and surround. I have a MK sub that I will be using. The only issue that may arise is the impedance of the Viennas. They are 4 ohm speakers. I spoke w/ Denon and the tech said to use 8 ohm speakers. According to him 4 ohm speakers will put a strain on the amps and cause them to shut down. I then called Vienna and spoke to a tech who said (of couse) it won't be a problem because it is a very stable 4 ohms. He mentioned that some speakers can range from 2 ohms to 20 ohms. I know that Vienna Acoustics make good speakers but I don't want any problems down the road. Any thoughts or recommendations?

[superpanavision70mm]

you could always buy a power amp to use from the pre-outs of the receiver to give you the load you need.

[first timer]

A power amp would take care of the problem? How big of an amp would I need? The receiver is 120 wpc. Also, is there anything specific I should look for in the amp?

[BadAssJazz]

Back when I was upgrading my speakers, Vienna Acoustics was one of the brands that I researched. They make excellent speakers. The only reason why I chose Silverline Audio over Vienna Acoustics was because Silverline Audio's homebase in Concord, CA is just a stone's throw away from my residence. I figured if anything was amiss, I could just drop in on Alan Yun and get immediate assistance.

If I recall correctly, Denon can only go as low as 6 ohms on it's receivers. No worries. You can use the 3806 as a pre/pro and get a 5 channel power amp to drive the speakers.

Not sure if you're still sticking to a budget, but if you are, I suggest checking your local A/V reseller for a used 5 channel solid state amp. Rotel, Parasound, Lexicon, Pass Labs, Arcam, Sunfire, Marsh, Krell, B&K, Sonic Frontiers/Anthem, Aragon -- all are names that came up in my research that match well with Vienna. You should be able to find a good previously owned multi-channel amp from Rotel or B&K for $500 - $800.

[Woochifer]

A power amp would take care of the problem? How big of an amp would I need? The receiver is 120 wpc. Also, is there anything specific I should look for in the amp?

Keep in mind that the 120 watt/channel spec on that Denon does not reflect the output will all channels driven. In a more real world situation, the output going to all channels is likely closer to 50-80 watts/channel.

Also, it's not the wattage that's at issue, but the speaker impedance. Generally, home theater receivers will play a pair of 4 ohm speakers with no problem. The problems generally arise when you try to play five low impedance speakers at the same time. But, whether or not the load will trip the receiver's protection mode will depend a great deal on how loud you intend to go, how large your room is, and how much the impedance on the speakers varies.

I would suggest starting with an outboard two-channel amp for the mains, and leave the receiver to handle the center and surrounds. Most outboard two-channel amps should be able to handle a 4-ohm load fairly easily, and the ones starting around the $500 range will work fine with your receiver.

[first timer]

I am definitely going over budget on this HT system w/ the addition of the amp. I did get a really good deal on the Denon though. I guess at this point money is no longer the issue but getting the system to work as advertised. I will look into purchasing a preowned amp. I'm looking to save where ever I can at this point. Hopefully I will be up and running by the beginning of next month barring any other road blocks.

[BadAssJazz]

Well, there is always option B. You can always take back the Denon receiver (if you're not too married to it) and find an AV receiver that can run your speakers. Here are a few quality manufacturers that can handle 4 ohm speakers (safe to say, there are others out there):

Adcom
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-125%2c6-9&menu=true&id=29749

NAD
http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=199
http://www.audionut.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=200

Onkyo
http://www.abtelectronics.com/product/21009.html

Arcam
http://www.arcam.co.uk/prod_diva_AVR350_intro.cfm

[first timer]

I like the Denon receiver so I will wait on the amp to see how the system works without it. If need be I will purchase the amp later. Vienna rep insists that my system will work fine. The other receivers that I heard play the Vienna´s were also rated to play 8 ohm speakers. One way or another I will make it all work.

[BadAssJazz]

I think you should follow the advice of the Denon tech, not the Vienna Acoustics rep. But if you're over budget, you may not have a choice right now.

Question: does using the receiver outside of it's specifications render the warranty null and void?

[AVMASTER]

according to my Denon rep, he could very well void his warranty due to misuse. However he would have to play it loud for an extended period before the protection circuit kicks in; it is a discretionary choice for Denon and would also depend on where he got the receiver.

[first timer]

I should be getting the system up and running this week or next. Spoke to another Denon rep who mentioned the 8 ohm rating for the receiver. Vienna rep said I would have to play the receiver really loud before problems would be encountered. The store manager where I purchased the equipment said they play the Denon and Pioneer through the Vienna's all day and have not had a problem. The last thing I want to do is void the warranty. If I have to purchase a separate amp I will. For now I will see how they work together. Besides, I won't be listening to music/movies that loud. I also purchased outdoor speakers so I won't have to crank the volume to hear music outside.

[bfalls]

I wouldn't worry too much about driving 4ohm speakers with the Denon. I have a Denon AVR 3300 (105W/ch) connected to a pair of Legacy Focus mains and Silver Screen center (4ohm, 94db efficienct). I've never had any problems driving them. I believe my volume control ranges between -30 to +30 and I normally listen at -17which is plenty loud for music or home theater. The receiver has never shutdown on me. Another thing to consider is you have a sub. Since bass takes most of the power to produce, having a sub takes a lot of strain off the receiver. By allowing the sub to carry most of the load your main speakers will only require a percentage of the receiver's power to drive the highs and mid-range. Where you may have needed 30-45W/ch to drive a full-range channel, with the sub the demand may drop to 20-25w/ch. This would be very simple for a good quality receiver like the Denon.

[first timer]

Nice to hear from someone w/ a Denon receiver. The sub I wil use is a MK VX7 Mark 2. It's a few years old so I hope it's compatable w/ the rest of the system. If not, back to the store to purchase something that is. I did not really want to have to purchase a separate amp. I am looking forward to finally getting the system up and running. I spent a lot of time(not to mention money) researching all of this. Lots of great help from the forum also.

[first timer]

Any recommendations for a remote?

[first timer]

My system is finally up and running. So far everything has exceeded my expectations. I did notice that the receiver did get a bit warm when I pushed it a bit. Of course that won't be the normal listening level. The only other problem I have is the FM reception. Or lack there of. I did purchase a powered FM antenna but that did not solve the problem. I'm still getting static. I guess the next move would be to have an antenna installed in the attic. I hope that will solve the problem. Any recommendations?