I auditioned the Paradigm Signature 8: Superb! [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : I auditioned the Paradigm Signature 8: Superb!



Pat D
01-26-2004, 10:53 PM
We have been visiting in the San Diego area and I am taking the opportunity to audition some speakers.

The Paradigm Signature S8 is a great speaker. The location wasn't the greatest as they were close to other speakers but that didn't stop them. They handle full orchestra, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, brass and various transients superbly. The sound seemed very smooth and neutral. The image is quite consistent with good depth. and I couldn't find any material that seemed to stick to the speaker. The bass was very good, though it doesn't seem to go as super deep as on the Studio 100, v. 2. These seem to be a very neutral and transparent speakers, and I really enjoyed listening to all sorts of music with them. This is one of the most enjoyable speakers I have ever heard and I could easily live with them, I think, though that could only be finally determined after a home trial. They're so good that I found it hard to concentrate on evaluating them, as I just liked listening to the music.

Some of the CDs I used were, the following, and of course I only used short sections:

Denon New Release 1985, BES-9079. The beginning of Schubert's 9th Symphony and a couple of opera excerpts with a soprano, tenor, baritone, bass and male chorus, along with a gunshot, crowd and stage noises. I have used this for 18 years or so and the recordings sound different with different speakers, so I keep it for consistency.

CBS 34509. Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata with Horowitz.

Castle UNCD12. Roger Whittaker, Unforgettable. "What a wonderful world."

Patricia Barber, Cafe Blue. Lovely vocals in Mourning Grace.

Philips 420 353-2. Mozart's Requiem, Kyrie, Colin Davis, etc. The chorus was smooth, even the sopranos above the staff. Even the orchestra sounded good and smooth, which it usually doesn't. On the whole, the best I have ever heard this.

Telarc CD-80049. Bach, Passacaglia in C. Michael Murray, organ at Methuen Hall. The speaker didn't seem to reproduce the 16 Hz fundamental of the 32 foot organ pipe, but then few do, but seems to go down to 30 Hz or so well enough. That's what big subwoofers are for.

Chesky JD33. Club de Sol. Title piece. The image for this recording sometimes extends wider than the speakers, and it did with the S8 speakers. Those wicked transients stayed in the stereo image and never stuck to the speaker.

Chesky CD6. Brahms 4th Symphony. Fritz Reiner. This was done in the 60s with the late Kenneth Wilkinson as recording engineer.

I also listened to the new Studio 100, v. 3, which is quite nice, very fine on male and female vocals and piano and the other materials and quite livable, They seemed a little tizzy in the extreme highs and a bit more colored than the Signature 8's. An enjoyable listen, nevertheless.

I would not need the S8 since I have a subwoofer, and would probably look very seriously at the S4 or even S2, as with my sub I think a mini-monitor type would work very well for me. They should sound similar except in the deep bass. As I mentioned some weeks ago, I heard the S2 briefly and it seemed to be very good and I will have to check them out at greater length.

A few days ago, I heard the PSB Stratus Minis and quite enjoyed them. Very easy to listen to. Certainly a quite neutral speaker which projects a big image when called for, although there are some things I need to check on with a couple of different recordings.

Next on my list is the Joseph Audio RM-7si Signature, which the dealer assures me will "blow away" the Stratus Minis. We'll see shortly.

kexodusc
01-27-2004, 05:07 AM
I never had a chance to test the S8's but I did take a listent to the S2's and S4's.
Apparently these things need an extreme amount of break-in time. My dealer had just taken out another set of S4's because he sold the floor demo's and I got to listen to two pairs, one broken-in, one not, for the first time in my life at the same place, same time.
If anyone ever doubted the significance of speaker break-in, I suggest they try this.
The S4's out of the box sounded okay, but I was really expecting more for the price.
The S4 floor demo's were spectacular. It was hard to believe these were the same speaker.
The dealer told me the first set took about 20-25 hours of playing more to open up than any speaker he's ever heard. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but if it's true, it might be really tough for interested customers to accurately test these.

Woochifer
01-27-2004, 11:55 AM
I never had a chance to test the S8's but I did take a listent to the S2's and S4's.
Apparently these things need an extreme amount of break-in time. My dealer had just taken out another set of S4's because he sold the floor demo's and I got to listen to two pairs, one broken-in, one not, for the first time in my life at the same place, same time.
If anyone ever doubted the significance of speaker break-in, I suggest they try this.
The S4's out of the box sounded okay, but I was really expecting more for the price.
The S4 floor demo's were spectacular. It was hard to believe these were the same speaker.
The dealer told me the first set took about 20-25 hours of playing more to open up than any speaker he's ever heard. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but if it's true, it might be really tough for interested customers to accurately test these.

Hmmm, then that might explain my less than stellar audition with the S2 a few weeks ago. I know that those demo units had been out of the box less than a week, and that particular dealer does not leave its speakers plugged in and playing all day. I've always been a skeptic about the need for extended break-in, but I know that brand new speakers do sound different than after they've had a lot of playing time. I'll have to head back to my local dealer and give them a retry when I try out the S4s.


http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=1300&

kexodusc
01-27-2004, 12:45 PM
Well, they sounded better than my Studio's 40's and old v.1 Studio 20's do at home, but isn't that always the case with in store auditions? Price wise, well, they didn't sound better enough for me to run out and buy 5 new speakers.

Personally I think I'd just stay with the S2's if I had to upgrade. Well, if I get that kind of money anytime soon, S4's are probably within reach anyway.

Don't know what to tell you Wooch, I remember your post now, I think you liked the V3 Studio's more than the Signatures. If nothing else, maybe I've given you reason to go back to the dealer sometime this week. I'll vouch for the v3 Studio's though. My friend bought a 7.1 system with 6 Studio 20's...except for pure ooomph, the new 20's have my front main Studio 40's v2's beat. Very nice speaker.

ryewoods
01-27-2004, 02:56 PM
The problem with the Signatures IMO is the price. There are a bunch of phenomenally sounding speakers in the $2-$6K range.

kexodusc
01-27-2004, 05:31 PM
Well, I wouldn't knock them on their value based on what I've seen in their competition, but as Ryewoods suggests, they are targeting a rather exclusive market with that price range.
Like many other products, there are diminishing returns when it comes to speakers. K-Horns come to mind, what a great speaker...I just don't have 6500 bucks.

RGA
01-27-2004, 07:58 PM
kexodusc

Few speakers are as dynamically fullfilling as the K-horns...they're not without their detractors - nothing is - but you should be able to get a set of K-horns for ~$2k. Indeed the Klipshhorn(The "Horn" speaker) , Celestian SL700 and Apogee(The Ribbon speaker) Duetta Signature were all sort of reviewed in the review of the Audio Note AN E/D($2700.00US). The AN E/D is rated to 12hz, measures extremely low bass distortion to boot apparently. I like the review in part because the guy owns ALL of the speakers and discusses the pros and cons of each. And if you think about it - it sure would be fun to have a variety of speakers like a variety of ice cream flavours. But alas I'll need to marry a rich woman for that to happen. I'm holding out for a few years to meet one :) http://www.stereotimes.com/speak071701.shtm

Someone mentioned Joseph Audio and I have ALWAYS wanted to hear those guys. One day.

mtrycraft
01-27-2004, 08:33 PM
but I know that brand new speakers do sound different than after they've had a lot of playing time. I'll have to head back to my local dealer and give them a retry when I try out the S4s. ]

Are you pulling his chain?

mtrycraft
01-27-2004, 08:38 PM
Apparently these things need an extreme amount of break-in time. My dealer had just taken out another set of S4's because he sold the floor demo's and I got to listen to two pairs, one broken-in, one not, for the first time in my life at the same place, same time.
If anyone ever doubted the significance of speaker break-in, I suggest they try this.
The S4's out of the box sounded okay, but I was really expecting more for the price.
The S4 floor demo's were spectacular. It was hard to believe these were the same speaker.
The dealer told me the first set took about 20-25 hours of playing more to open up than any speaker he's ever heard. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but if it's true, it might be really tough for interested customers to accurately test these.

Well, I presume your bias and the dealers ignorance is beyond question? Or, maybe, the dealer just wants to appease the audiophile community with this nonsense.

How did you compare the two sets of speakers? Were they in different locations in the room? If they were, maybe that was the reason?
If position is not the answer, how about bias?

There is just no evidence from listening tests that speaker break in is a credible claim that can be duplicated by anyone.

Woochifer
01-27-2004, 11:06 PM
Are you pulling his chain?

Nope, just conveying personal experience comparing the first set of Paradigms that I had purchased versus the dealer samples that I had borrowed. Same room, same amplification, same levels, same sources, different sound out of the box. Didn't take long for the sound to match up, certainly not 20-25 hours. Then again, my speakers are not the Signature models either.

I plan to reaudition the speakers that I tried out a few weeks ago and see if I still note the same impressions that I had back then. If I make note of the same flaws, then I'll know that it's the speakers. If not, then it would be attributable to many causes, but with an identical room, identical amplification, and identical sources, speaker break-in cannot be ruled out at that point.

kexodusc
01-28-2004, 04:23 AM
mtrycraft: The demo room is about 20 X 20, the old S4's were about 4 feet further out from the wall than the newer ones because they were about to deliver them. Also there was a switching board used which may not be terribly reliable. I have no statistical empirical evidence, I know what I heard, I'm a drummer and symbals definitely rang truer and clearer on the "broken in model". I'll grant you that the speakers weren't in the exact location, on the same cables etc, but they were pretty darn close to each other, and there was quite a difference. Johanna Koslawska was rather shrill when performing Gorecki on the new S4's too, not so on the older S4's.
Difference in bass or midrange were undetected by my ears, just the high end.

RGA: 6500 is what it would cost me for a K-Horn HT system the last time I checked, I could be way off, but sounds within the range of approx 2K per pair.. Still too rich for my blood just yet.

RGA
01-28-2004, 10:35 AM
kexodusc

Sorry didn't know you were going with a full surround system.

kexodusc
01-28-2004, 10:58 AM
RGA: Well, to be fair to you I am pretty vague in that post...correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Khorns over $10,000 around 10 years ago or so?
What's the best $1000-1500 range speaker you've heard?

Woochifer
01-28-2004, 01:17 PM
RGA: Well, to be fair to you I am pretty vague in that post...correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Khorns over $10,000 around 10 years ago or so?
What's the best $1000-1500 range speaker you've heard?

I believe that my friend paid about $4,000 for his K-horns back in 1990. Still remains one of the best sets of speakers that I've ever heard.

ryewoods
01-28-2004, 03:33 PM
What's the best $1000-1500 range speaker you've heard?

There are a bunch in that range. On my short list there would be the Green Mountain Europas, ACI Sapphire, Spendor S3/5 SE, JM Reynaud Twin MK III, Von Schweikert VR-1, Amphion Argon, and Magnepan 1.6. However, to me the mother of all speakers under $1500 is the Ellis Audio 1801b. If you're in no rush and can stand to be on the waiting list for 18+ months they are nearly the perfect speaker IMO. My friend just got his pair a couple of weeks ago that he had ordered in November 2002. They are simply amazing. I would wager that they outperform just about every speaker up to $4000 (maybe higher). Oh how I wish I could afford another pair of speakers. :)

joel2762
01-28-2004, 04:27 PM
Hey kexodusc, you play drums? Cool, same. I'm hoping to get to my Paradigm dealer soon, I'd like those S-4's for mains ans a Servo-15. 4500 watts peak! Crazy!

RGA
01-28-2004, 05:33 PM
RGA: Well, to be fair to you I am pretty vague in that post...correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Khorns over $10,000 around 10 years ago or so?
What's the best $1000-1500 range speaker you've heard?

Well I bought my speakers for $1500.00 Cdn though they do retail for $1950.00US. So if this counts then there was a reason, obviously, why I bought them.

The above review I provided had several high end speakers and the AN E D can be had for $2,000.00 Cdn. WHich I believe is around $1400-$1500.00US. I heard the 20kUS SEC version of the speaker but if the D is even 80% of the Sec then I would take the speaker over the B&W N801, 802 or the KHorn or the ML Odysey among others. However the equipment in front of the speakers were not the same...so of course I'm really judging them as an overall system.

It's hard for me to pick normal speakers in the 1k to $1500.00US range because I can't keep the conversion rates straight nor do I know if the prices remain consistant. And what's best to me won't necessarily be best for others. Gershman Acoustics' X1 is a nice standmount as well. And people are very high on a lot of speakers I have yet to hear...I bought what sounded best to my ear, that would proably be had in this range. It is if in Canadian dollars to my ear.

Pat D
02-10-2004, 08:59 PM
Someone mentioned Joseph Audio and I have ALWAYS wanted to hear those guys. One day.
Finally, I have access to a computer again. I heard the Joseph Audio RM7Si seems to have quite and even frequency response and it does have good horizontal dispersion, as do many speakers, but is exceptionally good on the stand up/sit down test for verticval dispersion. The image was consistent and I didn't detect any diffraction effects to call attention to the speaker. The bass is not very deep but should be adequate to match easily with a subwoofer.

Did I like the speaker? No, not particularly. Though the FR seems quite smooth, the balance seems to bright and hard for me. Many do like them, however. I preferred the PSB Stratus Mini, which was available for comparison, and it seems much more forgiving. A nice warm sound, even response, good horizontal dispersion, nice consistent image and a good sense of space. The bass is quite good for a smallish speaker. The Stratus Mini is very easy to listen to and seems to handle all types of music quite well. I quite enjoyed listening to music over them.