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Frost
05-01-2006, 01:32 PM
OooooOhhh man, am I going to open up a can of worms with you guys on this one.

Ok, so after getting some advice on speakers in these forums I decided I'll go listen to some. So off I went to a few different electronics stores to listen to speakers. I heard everything from Nuance speakers to Bose, Polk, etc, etc. Now, I've read in here by the enthusiasts that say you must go hear the speakers for yourself, because everyone hears things differently. Ok, that's fine. But now heres where i open the can.

When I go to a stereo shop to list to speakers, they have a perfect sound room for the brands they are selling. They will ask what you listen to, and pull out a demo cd (some stores wanted to use their own pick for obvious reason). Now they play the music, you sit in a chair that's in a perfect position in the middle of the room surrounded by their expertly setup system to listen to their brand of speakers. They can make them all sound good in their envoirnment. The room I'm using isn't anywhere near what they have, mine is lived in and isn't a sound room. So how can you expect to pick speakers when the salesperson is going to tell you what you want to hear, as well as with their perfect setup room make you hear exaclty what you want?

As soon I as I brought this point up, and said "well what if I take them home and don't like them because of my room setup and location" the answer I got normally was that the room does effect the sound and that it's a risk when purchasing. Some said they would take them back before 30days, others said because they are audio equipment they couldn't take them back.

So it's great that alot of forum users say you shouldn't rely on peoples opinions and to listen to them yourselfs, but I say I would rather hear the opinions from users that have the speakers at home, in a room that isn't perfect, so I get the real story and not an illusion of what could be. (can open, worms everywhere!)

Comments?

musicman1999
05-01-2006, 02:12 PM
First,always bring your own music,something well known to you,a good store will even let you bring your own cd player.Second,never lose sight of the fact the the salesmans job is to make sure you leave with new speakers.Third,if they wont let you return it you are in the wrong store.Fourth,i am afraid everyone's room is different,so our help in that regard may not apply to you.Finding a good dealer is sometimes harder than finding good gear.

bill

wayner86
05-01-2006, 02:54 PM
You need to learn to call bull$hit on a salesman, once you say that to his face he will backoff a little bit, the guys at these big box stores want to try to bully you and baffle you with bull$hit, its their job. Tell them to hold their sales pitch for another guy, the best way to go about it is to research all you can on the audio equip you want to buy, then when the saleman wants to spoon feed you crap you bust him in his tracks. Remeber that you have what they want not the other way around, they act like they're doing you a favor by selling you something, you're the guy with the hard earned money in his pocket, you should be calling the shots. Now the other option is to go to a smaller hifi store that also deals some reasonably priced equip. The guys at my local hifi turn the speakers on hand you the control and walk away, they don't pressure you into anything, or talk crap to you, they just answer your questions.

Good luck on the hunt.

Wayne

calegrant
05-01-2006, 04:11 PM
Chances are that if you're a member here you already know more about home audio than the commisioned salesmen at those stores. Also steer clear of these big box stores unless you know what you want. If you're serious about audio visit an audio specific store, they usually carry things in all price ranges and when they say that an affordable set of speakers are a great deal, it's most likely true!

Pat D
05-01-2006, 05:32 PM
OooooOhhh man, am I going to open up a can of worms with you guys on this one.

Ok, so after getting some advice on speakers in these forums I decided I'll go listen to some. So off I went to a few different electronics stores to listen to speakers. I heard everything from Nuance speakers to Bose, Polk, etc, etc. Now, I've read in here by the enthusiasts that say you must go hear the speakers for yourself, because everyone hears things differently. Ok, that's fine. But now heres where i open the can.

When I go to a stereo shop to list to speakers, they have a perfect sound room for the brands they are selling. They will ask what you listen to, and pull out a demo cd (some stores wanted to use their own pick for obvious reason). Now they play the music, you sit in a chair that's in a perfect position in the middle of the room surrounded by their expertly setup system to listen to their brand of speakers. They can make them all sound good in their envoirnment. The room I'm using isn't anywhere near what they have, mine is lived in and isn't a sound room. So how can you expect to pick speakers when the salesperson is going to tell you what you want to hear, as well as with their perfect setup room make you hear exaclty what you want?

As soon I as I brought this point up, and said "well what if I take them home and don't like them because of my room setup and location" the answer I got normally was that the room does effect the sound and that it's a risk when purchasing. Some said they would take them back before 30days, others said because they are audio equipment they couldn't take them back.

So it's great that alot of forum users say you shouldn't rely on peoples opinions and to listen to them yourselfs, but I say I would rather hear the opinions from users that have the speakers at home, in a room that isn't perfect, so I get the real story and not an illusion of what could be. (can open, worms everywhere!)

Comments?

As for listening to them at home: well, if you can't take them back if you don't like them (30 days is pretty standard and has been for years), then deal with someone else. Period!

Well, those who told you that the room acoustics and speaker placement can have a great effect on the sound are only telling the truth. The influence of the room can be overexaggerated, though. Room effects are most prominent below 300-400 Hz. Assuming you can get a reasonable placement in the store, this means you should be able to get a very good idea of what the speakers can do in the midrange and highs.

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/Loudspeakers&RoomsPt2.pdf

It's very often the case that the speakers will sound better at home, too.

Many dealers and/or their staff are often not particularly expert and often do not set up their speakers to best advantage. Many times, I have had to ask them to move the speakers to a better location. Actually, if they do have the speakers well set up, this can give you an idea of what the speakers can do, though ultimately it's how you can get them to sound at home that counts. If the dealer has a large room, and this is often the case, then the speakers may sound somewhat bass shy there but may have wonderful bass quality at home (or not).

If you rely on the dealer's recordings, you are at the mercy of those recordings. You are, for that matter, at the mercy of the recordings you bring in, too, but at least you are presumably familiar with them. The sound you get from a system is the result of a sort of conversation between the recordings, the speakers, and the room acoustics, including speaker placement and your own position in the room. Look at the "circle of confusion" section in the article by Dr. Toole on the Harman site--he's a real expert in the field. (Many speaker manufacturers, including Axiom, Paradigm, and PSB, give pretty objective advice for auditioning speakers on their web sites.) So, I think it's best to use a variety of different recordings. My own starting point is with full orchestra with massed strings, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, and piano.

emack27
05-01-2006, 06:28 PM
Like I've said time and time again. If you want true hi-fi speakers that sound good you need to find some speakers that have hi-fi drivers. My reccomendations are speakers that have SEAS or JM lab drivers. There are other good names of drivers that are cheaper and more expensive but for $500 to $3000 speakers you need atleast good drivers. The best way to go IMO is to build a speaker kit. Many good speakers use qualtiy parts and if you can build a speaker box using a blueprint then this is the way to go. The benifit of building your own is that you can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars. But if you can't build your own then expect to be razzled and dazzled and expect to pay a premium.

superpanavision70mm
05-01-2006, 09:57 PM
Two words: RETURN POLICY!

I have lived by this awesome rule and law that is set by the store themself. If it's a great store they have a good return policy, which means you should be able to not only test the equipment, but also have about 30 days or so to take it home and decide if you like it and as long as you don't damage it...return it if it does not meet your needs. I have tested out dozens of speakers this exact way and while it might seem like a pain in the butt...it's worth it!

Frost
05-02-2006, 08:34 AM
Points well taken. It's good to see that I'm not the only one out there that has waded through the BS, and attitudes. Some of the attitudes are worse than the BS when you walk into those stores. At any rate, good discussion everyone.

JoeE SP9
05-02-2006, 08:41 AM
If I get a lot of BS at a store I take myself and my money elswhere. It can help if you develop a relationship with a local dealer or dealers who have the kind of product you are looking for.:cool:

GMichael
05-02-2006, 08:58 AM
Points well taken. It's good to see that I'm not the only one out there that has waded through the BS, and attitudes. Some of the attitudes are worse than the BS when you walk into those stores. At any rate, good discussion everyone.

Everyone has already said what I thought of so there's no sense in me repeating. But good luck. Don't be in a hurry. Enjoy the listening and keep us updated.

emorphien
05-02-2006, 09:45 AM
Big chain stores tend to have somewhat crummy return policies, or they'll make you pay a restocking fee. My local audio store not only let me bring back and swap up to the better CD player, but they only charged half the difference (nevermind taking 10% off when i first walked out with the integrated amp and first CDP I tried.). I'll be going back there again in the future, and I'm sure that's what they wanted.

You might want to go above the salesmen in some places if they're talking BS to you, but don't buy anywhere that doesn't give you an option to return products. Their setup may show how the speaker sounds in that room, and it's really only good for comparing to other speakers in that room. It's all about how it interacts with your room when you get it home, and the differences between their listening room and your room could be small or huge. Hence the need for a good return policy.

KaiWinters
05-02-2006, 12:38 PM
I always bring a sample disk with me. It contains some of my favorite songs and samples a variety of sound, Annie Lennox, Carly Simon, Phil Collins, Frank Sinatra, AC/DC, Aerosmith for example.
My local store asked for a copy of it when I first brought it in because it had a wider range of styles than theirs did and said it sounded better too lol.

I always ask about the return policy so I can audition the speakers at my home in my "real world" conditions. If they do not take returns in a reasonable time I do not shop there and make it a point to tell the manager/owner I am taking my business elsewhere and why, politely of course.

I too do not like the salesman hovering over me yapping away while I am trying to listen. Fortunately my local stores salespeople also hand me the controller and walk away.

I also make sure to check what is powering the equiptment if I am listening to speakers. If the power unit is a $2 amp it is probably going to sound better than my lowly $500 rcvr.

Also are they using an equalizer, what are the settings on the rcvr...are the settings cranked to their max as I have seen...also watched a salesman, as I was listening to receivers, crank the bass, treble of the rcvr and output of the sub to the max and say doesn't that sound great...actually the sub...which did sound good before he maxed it out...sounded awful overpowering everything. I reset the rcvr to neutral and lowered the sub and scooted off the salesperson...did not buy from that store at that time.

We hold the power in all stores. It is our money and ultimately we decide where to spend it. The large box employees do not care all that much but the small businesses, privately owned, are much closer to the buying public and do not like to see money walk out the door.