Dissapointing/Over-hyped

[Bernd]

[B]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
[B]

Three spring to mind for me.

A NAIM5 cdp - shrill and bright and just horrible

Nordost Cables - talk about hyped.

Linn K9 - dreadful

Peace

Bernd:16:

[emaidel]

I'm sure Bose will get lots of "honorable mention" in this thread, but for me, the most disappointing piece of gear I ever bought (and returned) was a cheap MXR dynamic range expander.

MXR was attempting to cash in on the dbx "craze" in the late 70's, and, like many other companies at the time, made a pretty crummy expander for a lot less money than those from dbx. Initially, I thought it was a bit impressive, but the "pumping and breathing" ultimately drove me nuts, and when I told the Sales Manager of MXR that I was having difficulties with the unit (I didn't realize the unit itself was a piece of junk at the time) he advised me that, "Your system is much too good to be using something like our expander."

A second for me would be the Pioneer PL-55X turntable. The cueing was so horribly designed, that there was no way to use it without the tonearm dragging across the record for a few grooves before it lifted, and the people at Pioneer told me it was "designed" in this manner!

Of course there was also the Garrard Zero 100, numerous "click and pop" eliminators, and rubber bands to put on your CD's etc., etc., etc.

[Bernd]

Man how could I have forgotten this gem:

Monitor Audio GR20

My ears are hurting just thinking about this speaker. It resided a very short time with me and was sold with a big loss just to get it out of here.:incazzato:
Metal drive units and metal tweeter- talk about painful listening. Some magazines absolutly love them.:confused: Not this man.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[emorphien]

Metal drive units and metal tweeter- talk about painful listening. Some magazines absolutly love them.:confused: Not this man.
I've heard some that sound great, and some that sound absolutely dreadful. Seem to be a lot of variables.

[JohnMichael]

[B]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
[B]

Three spring to mind for me.

A NAIM5 cdp - shrill and bright and just horrible

Nordost Cables - talk about hyped.

Linn K9 - dreadful

Peace

Bernd:16:


I have never heard the top line Nordost but the levels I have heard/owned impart so much of themselves that they make the music sound bland and colorless. Wasn't the K9 an AudioTechnica design and improved in house at Linn. I never liked the AT so I avoided the K9.

[JohnMichael]

I own a Rotel RA 970BX int. amp that I always liked. One time it went for repair and they gave me a newer Rotel int. amp as a loaner. It was so bright and thin sounding that I did not listen to music until the 970 was back. I think it was the 971. The difference in sound was so great that I was afraid my 970 would come back sounding like the 971. The experience with the 971 has steered me away from Rotel ever since.

[Bernd]

I have never heard the top line Nordost but the levels I have heard/owned impart so much of themselves that they make the music sound bland and colorless. Wasn't the K9 an AudioTechnica design and improved in house at Linn. I never liked the AT so I avoided the K9.

Yes you are spot on Mr Michael. In my experience if you have a Nordost cable in your system it becomes a Nordost sounding rig.
The K9 was indeed modified and still sounded bad.
Early Rotels where nice sounding amps (I had one) and as you experienced Rotel tuned them for a brighter balance.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[Bernd]

I've heard some that sound great, and some that sound absolutely dreadful. Seem to be a lot of variables.

I think that goes for all speakers. Sometimes even different models from the same maker.

Bernd:)

[musicoverall]

[B]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
[B]

Three spring to mind for me.

A NAIM5 cdp - shrill and bright and just horrible

Nordost Cables - talk about hyped.

Linn K9 - dreadful

Peace

Bernd:16:

In my sadly all-too-limited stint with Valhalla, I can't say enough good things about it. Both the I/C's and the speaker wire were absolutely incredible and totally synergistic with my system. The only thing I hated was the price! I just could not justify their purchase, much as I coveted the wire.

For me, it's Lowther-based speaker systems. I have two friends who swear by them. They are horn loaded and the bloody things take up most of the room. Both systems are among the most colored pieces of audio gear I have ever heard. From non-existent bass to cupped hands midrange to a shrill treble, whatever the "magic" is with these speakers is lost on me. When I listen, words like "distorted" and "fingernails on a chalkboard" and just plain "wrong" come to mind. But these two folks are part of a very exclusive club and all the members I've spoken to can't understand how I could miss the point. Yet I continue to do so. Listener magazine hyped these things pretty strongly and they have quite a cult following.

[emorphien]

I think that goes for all speakers. Sometimes even different models from the same maker.

Bernd:)
Quite true. It just sounded like you were blacklisting all metal drivers and tweeters. :)

[topspeed]

It's funny you mentioned the GR20. I've heard the GR10 and can assure you your assessment holds true for the 20's baby brother. This was my first experience with Monitor in a very long time tho, so I can't say it was over hyped. I just didn't like it.

For me, I was supremely dissappointed in the Dynaudio Evidence Temptation. This speaker just did nothing for me whatsoever. I found it cold, clinical, and about as involving as an insurance seminar. It was driven by big Krells (can't remember model) so I thought it might be the amps, but we switched amps to supposedly warmer Sunfire's and the results were the same. BTW, I'm not crazy about Krell either. I heard the same amps with ML Odyseys' and and wasn't impressed.

Another, albeit considerably less expensive piece that was overhyped was the Odyssey Stratos amp. A darling of the internet, I really wanted to like this as it's not all that expensive ($1k). However, it was the epitome of solid state with sibilant, hard highs and a cool presentation. There was also an upper midrange hump that I didn't care for. It slams like a Mack truck tho!

The Thiel 3.6 was another speaker that was just OK. I'd heard a lot about it and was expecting big things, but it was just kinda "there," if you know what I mean. I want to listen to Thiel's again however, as I heard the 3.6's right after a WP7/Wadia/ARC rig that simply blew my socks off. I have a feeling that it was the equivalent of driving a M3 after coming out of a Ford GT. IOW, it was an outrageously unfair comparison.

The last is for a speaker that seems to one of the most polarizing made: Vandersteen. Here is a company that is 20 miles from my house and beloved by legions of die-hard fans and yet...it's one of the most laid-back, boring, uninvolving speakers I've ever laid ears on. Toe tappers they ain't.

[E-Stat]

What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned?
I guess I'm lucky in that I have purchased only one product that I later regretted.

The AR Integrated amp. Absolutely horrible resolution at low levels.

Other components that I've heard (but never bought) were:

1. Bose 901 - no real HF extension and hokey imaging.
2. AR-LST - dull and lifeless. Limited resolution
3. Older McIntosh gear such as the C-28 and 2105 - Inoffensive, but insipid.

I would be quite happy, however, with the utter neutrality of Nordost Valhalla cabling.

rw

[Florian]

My list would be this

1. VMPS RM30M .....ZERO balance, no bass, horrible build quality and worse service! Bought it for 3K and sold it for 800 Bucks :-(

2. Onkyo Integra 911 CD Player. The Servo died twice, and the sound was HIFI...ish

[Florian]

Oh, i just saw that you incl what i heard also. Well that would incl the following

Paradigm Atoms (had them for 3 month on a Sony 555ES)...ok for a 20$ speaker, but whats the big deal?!?

Then we have the Krell speakers, which sound hard, unemotional and are nowhere near the right tonal balance.

Bösendorf speakers which just plain and simply sucked....

[dean_martin]

[B]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
[B]

Three spring to mind for me.

A NAIM5 cdp - shrill and bright and just horrible

Nordost Cables - talk about hyped.

Linn K9 - dreadful

Peace

Bernd:16:

Interesting topic, Bernd. I'm still a little puzzled with my less than spectacular experiences with some well-respected gear.

A salesman sat me down between 2 giant Martin Logans driven by a Plinius integrated, the 9200 I think, and my head still hurts. The leading edges of notes were way too "hard".

I heard a pair of Vandersteen 1Cs that were just too bland. The 2CEs were too big for my room so I didn't audition them. I guess I should have because many say that that's where the Vandys really come into their own.

When I was looking to switch to tubes I auditioned a pair of Quicksilver monoblocks with a Rega Planet 2000 cdp and PSB speakers. This combo had a terrible glare. I'm not sure which component was the culprit.

The newest middle of the line JM Labs with the cheap looking oddly shaped tweeter enclosure didn't sound real to me.

The Revel Performa F30s (I think that's the model #) didn't sound to me like they were worth their asking price.

I was not impressed with the Magnepan 1.6QRs. For such large speakers they portrayed a tiny area of sound. They were driven with AR gear. The same disc sounded better to me with NAD seperates and cdp driving a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3s. Maybe it was the music? Maybe it was my ears.

Probably the most memorable auditioning experience was listening to a Jolida integrated with Jolida cdp and a pair of Nola Alon Li'l Rascals II and Nola sub. I wound up with the Jolida integrated.

[Bernd]

Interesting responses and hopefully it will help anybody looking for future upgrades (pitfalls).
A quick note on the Nordost Valhalla. Wihout a doubt a superb cable. But I felt it only performed it's best when the entire cable loom is Valhalla. And it still retains, to these ears anyway, the Nordost trade sound.
Maybe we should also include pieces that have exceeded our expectations.:)
Mine would be:

Way out in front:

"Isotek Titan" an outstanding mains product, and easy the biggest improvement for the outlay I have made.

"Shelter 901" I expected a good cartridge but got a great one.

"Michell Technoarm A" we're talking giant killer. It runs my SME V oh so close.

"Art Audio Vinyl One" an outstanding Phono amp with bags of musical bliss.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[Feanor]

[b]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
Bernd

I owned this amp for about 4-6 months driving Magneplanar MMGs. I "enjoyed" bloated bass and limited resolution and transparency. What an eye-opener when I substituted a pair of Monarchy SM70 Pros.

[Jimmy C]

[B]What is the most dissapointing/over-hyped piece of audio equipment you have owned/heard?:incazzato:
[B]

Three spring to mind for me.

A NAIM5 cdp - shrill and bright and just horrible

Nordost Cables - talk about hyped.

Linn K9 - dreadful

Peace

Bernd:16:

...big things from the $7500 Sonus Faber Cremonas at Harveyonline.com. What I got was major congestion and an ear-bleeding top end... didn't make any sense at all. In the same store (but different room/rig) the Concertos were MUCH better sounding.

Don't know what it was, but something was very wrong with that rig.

[jrhymeammo]

I wish I had more oppotunity to listen to more exotic speakers, but here's what I've heard.

Sonus Faber Concerto. Whatta boring sounding speakers. I first heard it with Rotel Pre/Pro. I was in a search of a pairf of BShelf speakers. For that and other reasons, I really wanted these speakers to sound good. It was extremely bland and lifeless. Then I asked my salesman to mate it with Musical Fidelity A3.2 Integrated and CDP. MF made these speakers sound slightly more refined, but I just couldnt pay attention anymore than 5 minutes. I tried them on another occasion but sounded much painful. I ended up spending alot more on B&Ws and couldn't have made a better choice.
I didnt like the sound of B&W Nautlius 805s. When I listend to Signature 805 vs Nautty 805s side by side with Musical Fidelity A3.2s, I thought Nautties sounded very forceful and muffled.

Paradigm Performance Series. I would prefer them over Concerto anyday. Very reasonable priced, but I think it is over-hyped, especially Atom. When I sold my Monitor 5s to my friend for $300, I just gave him CC-170 and Titans(which I upgraded from Atoms).

[basite]

our yamaha rvx-1200 rds receiver, for a couple of reasons:
1) sounds drop dead cold,
2) we have to turn the volume 3/4 open to hear something at a decent volume while playing a record, for cd's it haves to more than halfway open to hear the cd properly, also, the speakers sound to withdrawn, when playing some cd's it's like the b&w's are ashamed and cripple away in the darkest corner (thats how they sound)

[bobsticks]

When I went to pick up my Martin Logans I had a chance to audition similar speaks with an all McIntosh rig. I was almost ready to call the deal off! It was a slow day for the boys so we started to play around a bit. Subbing in a Cary cdp for the Mac was like night and day. Ultimately, to these ears, the Mac cdp didn't do anything for me, especially at the asking price...

[drseid]

It would have to be the Von Schweikert VR4SRs for me... 10-12K/pr, and completely flat sounding when I heard them on two different occasions on different super high-end electronics in different rooms. I am a huge VS fan and their VR-11s are my favorite speakers, period... but the SRs just are a poor example of performance and value to my ears.

Electronics-wise in my own system, its all of the Outlaw Audio gear. The 950 pre/pro was horrible sounding when paired with my Tylers, and their M200 monoblocks were not much better. After hearing all of the hype, and experiencing truly superb customer service from Outlaw, I really wanted to like them both... but alas, they both were out of my system in a little over a month.

---Dave

[Woochifer]

A couple of speakers immediately come to mind, spaced out about 20 years between listenings.

Apogee Duetta - Hyped to no end by the audio press, and by the audiophile community at large back in the 80s. Also made appearances in interior design magazines and movies -- they were the audio jewelry of their day. Then when the store where my friend worked got them in their demo room, I gave listened to them multiple times, we tried multiple front end rigs and alignments, and in the end wondered what all the hype was all about. I found them uninvolving in every other demo I'd heard in other rooms with other front end rigs. They were fine with orchestral pieces, but throw amplified instrumentation and heavy percussion their way, and they just weren't up to the task. They have their merits and I can see their appeal for certain audiences, but in my listenings they did not measure up to the inordinate amount of hype that they received back in the mid-80s.

Wilson Audio Sophia - Another company that gets plenty of mention today. Did an extended listening with a high end Theta pre/pro setup in an acoustically controlled room, and could not believe the amount of ringing and resonance that I was picking up with some of my demo sources. The midrange is otherwise refined for the most part, and these speakers have a very well balanced and extended low end, but at $12,000, they are not worth the money by any stretch. Very disappointing considering how much their speakers cost and how much positive press they get.

Also the Sennheiser HD500 headphones -- just an abomination of a headphone design. Supposedly designed for rock music, electric jazz, and hip hop, but in the end all I get is a dark and dreary sound with boomy distorted bass at moderate volumes. Just leaves me scratching my head as to how a company with Sennheiser's stellar reputation would let something as ill-conceived as this get out the door.

[kexodusc]

Dynaudio anything - I have a few friends back in Atlanta who love them, but they're fan-boys who love the name more than anything...not that they're bad, just uncompetitive and over-rated, IMO.

[audio_dude]

Oh, i just saw that you incl what i heard also. Well that would incl the following

Paradigm Atoms (had them for 3 month on a Sony 555ES)...ok for a 20$ speaker, but whats the big deal?!?



Whats the big deal?!?

well for one, they are damn well near the best speaker in the $200 range...

and the centerpiece of my young system!

[StanleyMuso]

Whats the big deal?!?

well for one, they are damn well near the best speaker in the $200 range...

and the centerpiece of my young system!

Haven't you noticed? He is an abominable snob and has an evangelistic streak about his equipment. His is always the best and unless you convert to his perception of things you are not worthy and doomed to hi-fi hell. :sad:

Apart from that, he's a good bloke and has some good ideas.

Oh yes, almost forgot. My big mistake was the acoustimass bose speaker system when it first came out, and I was too young and inexperienced to know any better. I already had very good large speakers made by a small boutique manufacturer, but needed to move to a smaller room for a while. As a study system it was OK, but once I was able to move back to the main audio room and compared them directly to my other speaker (which by the way cost half the price of the bose) I was extremely upset that I had wasted my money. They now serve as rear surrounds in my son's room.

[emorphien]

Haven't you noticed? He is an abominable snob and has an evangelistic streak about his equipment. His is always the best and unless you convert to his perception of things you are not worthy and doomed to hi-fi hell. :sad:
You hit the nail on the head. :ihih:

The Atoms are pretty good for the money, but of course they'll pale compared to more expensive speakers. If they didn't, then everyone would be ranting and raving about them. I've heard them and was impressed with what they do for the dollar. A friend uses Atoms and Titans in his home theater and it's quite nice for a very reasonable budget.

[Bernd]

Another gem to add to the impressed list.

"Wharfedale Diamond 9.1"

I am listening in my Study to these and they make beautiful noises. Can't fault them for the cost and they have well exceeded my expectations.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[bobsticks]

Another gem to add to the impressed list.
Bernd:16:

Admittedly my experience with turntables is limited, but I heard a Music Hall mm-5 through some decidedly ordinary gear and was surprised at the fidelity for the dollars. I would imagine that I might be inviting some flaming, but for $550US plug-and-play it seemed like a no-brainer as an entry level unit.

As an aside, I didn't really read that as Flo trouncing the Atoms, but he can handle that himself...

Cheers

[Jimmy C]

Admittedly my experience with turntables is limited, but I heard a Music Hall mm-5 through some decidedly ordinary gear and was surprised at the fidelity for the dollars. I would imagine that I might be inviting some flaming, but for $550US plug-and-play it seemed like a no-brainer as an entry level unit.

As an aside, I didn't really read that as Flo trouncing the Atoms, but he can handle that himself...

Cheers

A friend has the Pro-Ject equivalent, the 2.1. It's a good table, capable of being quite musical. It's biggest drawback is (was) the supplied cart - a bit boring, for lack of a better word.

He recently upgraded to a Scout, so I just might scoff up ththe 2.1 on the cheap. I would have to find a good spot in the bedroom...hhmmm...

[bobsticks]

As person forced by circumstance into moving every couple of years I have been apprehensive about taking the plunge. That said, there is such a huge catalogue of goodies that is unavailable on disc that I am tempted. Just more stuff for the movers to destroy...

Cheers

[musiclover60]

Anything by MacIntosh. Don't get me wrong, good sound, but at this price? All name, no game! They are built like tanks though.
B & W speakers. Again, good but not great. At all their price points there are numerous speakers that sound much better. For me these speakers are always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
Yamaha electronics. Once upon a time these were the best midrange priced equipment you could buy. Bought my cd player 5 years ago, still good but slipping. Now? I run away whenever I hear them!!
Banf & Olufson. Best looking equipment equipment you can buy, but they sound like they came from a K-Mart blue light special!

How about the most pleasant surprises?
These would be mine.
Technics turntables - Mass market that sounds this good? Built like tanks (older ones anyway). The wife doesn't scream about the price? How can you go wrong?
Older JBL speakers - I'm talking 20 - 30 years ago. Tight bass. Surprising'll good at all types of music despite their reputation for the California sound (they defined it).
B.I.C. - What's the big deal about automatic equalization from Yamaha, et al? BIC had this 25 years ago, albiet with a wire instead of wireless. A friend of mine had a true high end system: Rega turntable (top of the line), AdCom preamp, Audionics power amp, Vandersteen 2(x), ADS 1230 Monitors (for rock and roll). We're talking 5 G in 1980 dollars and the BIC equalizer made it sound like a 10 G systtem for a little over $150! Does anyone know where I can buy one?

[emorphien]

Music, I have to admit I share your feelings about B&W. Great stuff but there are so many other brands to explore.

[PHiX]

I got me a pair of B&W 601 speakers and from what I listened to they just sounded the best. I checked out Dali, Wharfedale and JBL. I wish I listened to some Kefs as well, but I'm satisfied now. If I'd be going for a higher segment I'd have audited more speakers

[JoeE SP9]

Any horns at all and Lowther based speaker systems make me want to cut off my ears and run away. Piezo tweeters on most PA systems effect me the same way only worse. Small boxes with no bass and overly prominent highs make me want to get the dynamite.:incazzato:

[Jimmy C]

As person forced by circumstance into moving every couple of years I have been apprehensive about taking the plunge. That said, there is such a huge catalogue of goodies that is unavailable on disc that I am tempted. Just more stuff for the movers to destroy...

Cheers

..."moving", that is. It does indeed suck. I don't think that should be a reason not to get into vinyl... you could usually move that stuff yourself. Yeah, it's a bit sensitive, but keep the original box, blah, blah. I understand, though - it's another undertaking.

Not sure what your primary music is, but Jazz is mine. There is something about Miles, for eg., on vinyl that the silver disc simply can't convey. I have a pretty cheap CDP, but I've heard him on BIG $$$ digital rigs - no thanks, still something missing.

One of my local stores put a new Grado Sonata on an old V.P.I. table... amazing sound. Forgot the artist, but it was the cliche, smokey nightclub type of Jazz. You were THERE. The big Martin Logans and a stack of Audio Research tubes didn't hurt either, but like the store owner says: If it ain't there in the first place...

I feel one should have a GOOD purveyor of vinyl to make it worthwhile... it's no fun buying $20 LPs online.

[bobsticks]

Well, I'm obviously in the process of talking myself into this.LOL

I, too, like my jazz and have heard some spectacular things on vinyl. We'll see how it turns out. I've got a few other projects in the works, but ya never know. I am given to flights of fancy...

Cheers

[emorphien]

I think people often mistake overhyped/overrated for being synonymous with bad, which they are not.

[kelsci]

My brother had some Nordost Blue Heaven cables hooked up. Personally, I thought they were quite good and sounded better than some kind of Kimber cable he had. Personally, I do not think I have ever owned a particular model that was crowned king of the pile and really was a duece in disguise. I have owned equipment that not always panned out the way it should have.

[Worf101]

1. I'd have to the say that my pair of nOrh 2.0's (?) did nothing for me. I sold em as soon as I could.

2. Pioneer's firs "component video" DVD player. I forget the number, but it looked like ass, died 4 months into use (wouldn't even play CD's) and used some sort of algorithm to approximate true CV. I had to sue Pioneer to via the BBB to get a refund. Needless to say I wouldn't take another Pioneer Product if offered to me by the Almighty himself.

Da Worfster

[spacedeckman]

Hmmm. Disappointments? A few. Fortunately, most of them caught before I wrote the check.

B&W CDM1SEs (actually any B&W) Press raves, but awful tweets, not cohesive
Sonic Frontiers SF1: Mistaken for "tube gear"...boring, uninvolving
Bryston 3BST: Bright, boomy, gone. New stuff, however, is phenomenal...they got it right
Adcom 545II: Bright, lacking dynamics, stuck with for too long.
Adcom GTP600: broke, goofed up, broke, sold
Adcom 575 CD: Sounded bad, broke, fixed, sold
VAC's original Avatar: Spanked by an SE EL34 amp at 1/4 the price
JBL XPL-90: bright, not cohesive, too expensive.

Surprises:

VPI Scout: I expected "good", not "geat"
Sutherland PHD: Scary, very scary
Audiovector M1 Signatures: Just "right", musical, open, easy to drive
Kimber 4tc: Never was a speaker wire guy, but this stuff is good.
Audioprism Mantissa SE: Neutral, dynamic, open, and pretty.
Castle Isis: Just something "right" about them
KEF 1.4/2: My first hifi speaker crush.

I could think of more, but it is bedtime.

Space

[jrhymeammo]

Whats the big deal?!?

well for one, they are damn well near the best speaker in the $200 range...

and the centerpiece of my young system!


Duuuuuude....You are being Very UnDude.

Sorry couldnt help myself.

If I remember correctly, you are 16 or 17 years old. I snooped at your system list and think you got some KickAssed system. Alot of us do what we can with limited budget=sub$10,000. YOu should be extrememly proud of how much enjoyment your system can deliever, and I think you are. I never mated my Atoms with a tank like Sansui integrated so we are both just speaking based on different experiences. Combination of my personal taste, Atoms, and Rotel didnt do it for me. I just never bought any statements like "Paradigm Atoms are the Product of the Year!!!!!' sort of nature.

This reminds me, Grado SR-60.....
You own this too, Dude. If I wanted to make my ears bleed, I would be throwing eggs at my sister like I did 20 years ago. If anyone has any experience with SR-60 with tube headamp go for it. To my ears, over-hyped is all.

-JRA

[StanleyMuso]

Hmmm. Disappointments? A few. Fortunately, most of them caught before I wrote the check.

B&W CDM1SEs (actually any B&W) Press raves, but awful tweets, not cohesive
Bryston 3BST: Bright, boomy, gone. New stuff, however, is phenomenal...they got it right

Space


I've seen a few people complaining about lack of cohesiveness in the B&Ws. However, that has not been my experience. Perhaps they listen to them at too close a distance? I myself realised the quality of B&W when my son bought a pair of 601s for his bedroom. With the pair I bought, the tweets did sound harsh for a while, but now are very smooth. I have become a convert to the need for a burn in period. Oh, and careful positioning in the room.

I agree with your Bryston comment - from specs I thought this particular unit would be ideal, but just could not get involved emotionally with it during a rather prolonged listening session. Don't know about the newer ones, because I haven't auditioned any.

PS. Please don't think I'm going out of my way to defend B&W. I'm not. It's just that at the present moment I am happy with mine, but I know that for the money there are probably hundreds of others as good or better. The tragedy of a busy life and limited finances means that its hard to find them. When the time comes for an upgrade, I'll probably try something else, even perhaps Florian's great love.

[emorphien]

Alot of us do what we can with limited budget=sub$10,000.
Haha I'd say that's not too terribly limited in the overall scope of things. Sub $1000 is definitely limited.

[RGA]

A couple of speakers immediately come to mind, spaced out about 20 years between listenings.

Apogee Duetta - Hyped to no end by the audio press, and by the audiophile community at large back in the 80s. Also made appearances in interior design magazines and movies -- they were the audio jewelry of their day. Then when the store where my friend worked got them in their demo room, I gave listened to them multiple times, we tried multiple front end rigs and alignments, and in the end wondered what all the hype was all about. I found them uninvolving in every other demo I'd heard in other rooms with other front end rigs. They were fine with orchestral pieces, but throw amplified instrumentation and heavy percussion their way, and they just weren't up to the task. They have their merits and I can see their appeal for certain audiences, but in my listenings they did not measure up to the inordinate amount of hype that they received back in the mid-80s.

Wilson Audio Sophia - Another company that gets plenty of mention today. Did an extended listening with a high end Theta pre/pro setup in an acoustically controlled room, and could not believe the amount of ringing and resonance that I was picking up with some of my demo sources. The midrange is otherwise refined for the most part, and these speakers have a very well balanced and extended low end, but at $12,000, they are not worth the money by any stretch. Very disappointing considering how much their speakers cost and how much positive press they get.

Also the Sennheiser HD500 headphones -- just an abomination of a headphone design. Supposedly designed for rock music, electric jazz, and hip hop, but in the end all I get is a dark and dreary sound with boomy distorted bass at moderate volumes. Just leaves me scratching my head as to how a company with Sennheiser's stellar reputation would let something as ill-conceived as this get out the door.


Well Woochifer we agree on all three almost to a tee -- (except I heard the Signature II version and it does not sound like it would have changed your mind much) - For rock music or anything with a pulse the speaker just didn't work for me. I was also not terribly convinced by the entire treble band with any music -- something about the tweeter just doesn't sound right.

The Wilson if you recall I liked but at that time $16k Cad yeah it's a good speake but I've heard BETTER at $3000.00 and a similar looking speaker (perhaps similar design) but MUCH better sound can be had from the Gershman Acoustics X1-Sub-1 Combination for around $4,500.00Cad.

And I heard a set of those Headphones here in Korea HD 500 and it boggles my mind how that could have been made by Sennheiser. I do no know how much they cost mind you so I will temper my comments but I have heard better for $50.00 at Radio Shack from no namers -- or at elast as good. Sennheiser is a little strange because I never liked the 590 - it was supposed to replace the 580 years ago -- it costs more than the 580 and it just does not cut it. The 580 and 600 are all day listenable -- not necessarily exciting to listen to all the time but they never annoy you -- and that's not a bad first step in the right direction. Living in Korea these 600s are getting a ton of work being the mainsystem again and they get the job done well. The 500 would make me stab my eye with a pen knife.

[RGA]

I've seen a few people complaining about lack of cohesiveness in the B&Ws. However, that has not been my experience. Perhaps they listen to them at too close a distance? I myself realised the quality of B&W when my son bought a pair of 601s for his bedroom. With the pair I bought, the tweets did sound harsh for a while, but now are very smooth. I have become a convert to the need for a burn in period. Oh, and careful positioning in the room.


I don't think the 600 series is nearly as problematic as the 700 series. Back in the day before the 700 series was the CDM series and the CDM 2 was the entry standmount with the CDM 1SE being the upper standmount. The main difference was $600.00 more for the latter - a sexier box and tweeter on top. I liked em both but the CDM 2SE was far more enjoyable to listen to and had less prominance in the treble (which was more a lack of integrtion). I personally feel B&W is going in the wrong direction all the way back to the Matrix series -- they have gone to sexy looks and sacrifice sound quality. The 600 series is not perfect and it has some issues but it is good bang for the buck and hangs in with most everything else I've heard in the price range. The 700 series offers marginal improvements in some areas and outright downgrades in other areas and costs you a PILE more money.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Any horns at all and Lowther based speaker systems make me want to cut off my ears and run away. Piezo tweeters on most PA systems effect me the same way only worse. Small boxes with no bass and overly prominent highs make me want to get the dynamite.:incazzato:

This is painting a picture with a street sweeper. Not all horns are built alike, just like not EVERY PA speaker sounds horrible. I have to agree with you on the Lowther horn speaker, but my speakers which are horn hybrids do not exibit the cupped sound quality, screechy highs or lack of bass that dogs most horn designs. The new Klipschorn nor the new reference line of Klipsch sounds this way either. Horns have really evolved over the last 5 years now that more work has been done to engineer them properly.

[jrhymeammo]

http://oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Stereo_Speakers/Magnat_Magnasphere-Beta_Stereo_Speakers_web.jpg

Beauty or Beast?

[emorphien]

http://oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Stereo_Speakers/Magnat_Magnasphere-Beta_Stereo_Speakers_web.jpg

Beauty or Beast?
appearance wise?? Beast.

[musiclover60]

Given the huge differences in budget maybe we need to seperate all future forums into price sub-forums, with one being "Hi-Fi your wife doesn't kill you for buying because it cost more than a new beemer":ihih: