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superpanavision70mm
04-28-2006, 11:26 AM
I thought this would be a great place to discuss something that gets brought up from time to time....

What does HIGH-END mean?

Is it a magic number that once you have spent that exact dollar amount then you are classified as HIGH END?

Is it a matter of having all those right components from all the right manufacturers?

Is it having everything purely calibrated and perfectly matched with precise EQ?

Ok, so let's say YOU are high end...or replace high end with terms like Audiophile or the 70's term 'hifi'. What then sets the men from the boys? Florian for example is a self-described ULTRA HIGH-END contestant. Looking at his gear it certainly looks like it's in a league of its own....expensive? yes. fine tuned? yes. good manufacturers? you bet. However, without sitting in that room or anyone elses room who meets those requirements...how the heck do we reallly know what that HIGH-END sound is like. Is it possible to get that HIGH END sound from something that costs less, involves less, and has far less time in calibration and tweaking?

Here's a deep thought...if someone could give you a 1"X1" tiny little black box, yet this magical box could sound better than any system known to man...would you trade all of your gear for something so simple as just a tiny box? I know i know....how could that box possibly sound as good as something huge? Well, bear with me for just this simple exercise. It's not a matter of size, or shape, but rather the concept. Is it possible for less to sound better than more. Is it possible for someone who has SUPER EXPENSIVE AND PERFECTED SYSTEM to sound like crap? Absolutely. I know of a nearby shop that has some very sweet gear. Nothing super expensive, but some nice models of B&W etc etc. However, people are always in their listening rooms turning nobs and switches that it's NEVER calibrated and sounds like crap.

This brings me to I suppose my one and only point...the importance of the listener's ear. We are all born naturally with various abilities of hearing and developing our ear is something that partly comes naturally and somewhat with more training. I developed perfect pitch when I learned to play my first of several instruments at a young age. I would like to think that I can hear better than most...often times I hear things that others don't ...sometimes it's freaky. Does this handicap my ability to hear things better or worse than others? Someone else might listen to the same thing as me and think it sounds good, or better, or worse, or whatever.....who is right?

Obviously I think we are all aware that it's harder for a good system to sound bad, but is it possible to make a semi-good system sound better? Sure. I've set up lots of peoples gear and helped them with little tricks of the trade in order to enhance what they have. At what point does HIGH-END peak out? Is there a point where it just can't sound any better? If so, how do you know? Could making more tweaks possible make it sound worse?

Too many deep questions that I suppose lots of people will have contrasting opinions over....so eat em' up.

Florian
04-28-2006, 11:59 AM
Florian for example is a self-described ULTRA HIGH-END contestant. Looking at his gear it certainly looks like it's in a league of its own....expensive? yes. fine tuned? yes. good manufacturers? you bet. However, without sitting in that room or anyone elses room who meets those requirements...how the heck do we reallly know what that HIGH-END sound is like. Is it possible to get that HIGH END sound from something that costs less, involves less, and has far less time in calibration and tweaking?
Actually my gear is not that expensive, and it certainly is affordable in the long run. It takes hard work and dedication to make them all go together. Other systems on this site that i equally respect are from E-Stat, Bernd and Joe. It doesnt take a fat wallet, but it does take money and dedication. (About 6K used and another 6K or so to restore) My speakers are most likely the most expensive objects and in their days were as much as a BMW and are worth even more today in exquiste condition. My power amps and preamp are not commercial, and neither is my digital front end.

Shop used and shop for small legends and not the HIFI Magazine crap and you can find nirvana much faster then if you buy the latest bull**** from Stereophile.

-Flo

PS: Yes my system is expensive but is it as much as Gryphon References, Apogee Grand (85K), or the 1 Million Dollar speaker from Kharma? No! But i am willing to take on a comparison against each and every other speaker. I have no envy eyes anymore and go walk by a Wilson X2 without even looking and i spend much less :-)

PPS: My system, much like Bernds, E-Stats and Joes have to be heard to be believed. We are not talking Paradigm and B&W here, but then again it would be stupid to even think about a comparison since they are made for different clients in the first place with different goals. I gratualte Paradigm and B&W for making great speakers for the money, but Bernd, E-Stat and myself dont go for aclaimed speakers or good review speakers. We know what we want and simple save up and get it.

PPPS: Also the phrase "High End" is crap, but there is no limit. You can say that you can make a 5000$ sound really good with some tweaks, but the same applys to 50000$ systems. The only limit for myself is reality. Some are happier below that and some want to reach that. Simple!

Resident Loser
04-28-2006, 12:03 PM
...IMHO is an arbitrary monetary point which constantly changes...you don't need high-end for hi-fi...once you get beyond a certain point, the law of diminishing returns comes into play and you cross the line from enthusiast to audiophile with the accent on gearhead...always a what-if?...never quite satisfied...It becomes a chimera, the elusive Grail...I'd rather listen to the music, the delivery system is secondary.

jimHJJ(...I used to be an audiophile, coveting things like real Mark Levinson and such...now I know better...)

PAT.P
04-28-2006, 12:08 PM
Im in the entry level and bought at all 50% off the regular price and all brand new:ihih: My priority is family first .My second system is all garage sale 30 year old receiver and basic JBL speakers and sub added a 31 band stereo graphic EQ and its magic .:16:

Florian
04-28-2006, 12:15 PM
Here's a deep thought...if someone could give you a 1"X1" tiny little black box, yet this magical box could sound better than any system known to man...would you trade all of your gear for something so simple as just a tiny box?

In a heart beat! I buy what i like and i dont care about the size, looks etc... all i care about is how it sounds. If i have to place the speaker 8ft from the wall then so be it. If they are 7ft tall and black, then so be it. And if your 1" by 1" box can produce a more live like sound then sign me up.

PAT.P
04-28-2006, 12:39 PM
In a heart beat! I buy what i like and i dont care about the size, looks etc... all i care about is how it sounds. If i have to place the speaker 8ft from the wall then so be it. If they are 7ft tall and black, then so be it. And if your 1" by 1" box can produce a more live like sound then sign me up.Flo my tower speakers are more than 1"x1",and they have a frequency of 30 hz to 20khz with a sensitivity 93db,1m.All this from a box:ihih: Somebody was selling a pair of Apogee Centaur Minor(700 CND ) but was to late ,after paying $15,000.00 in Tax:incazzato:

Florian
04-28-2006, 12:49 PM
Flo my tower speakers are more than 1"x1",and they have a frequency of 30 hz to 20khz with a sensitivity 93db,1m.All this from a box:ihih: Somebody was selling a pair of Apogee Centaur Minor(700 CND ) but was to late ,after paying $15,000.00 in Tax:incazzato:
Well, a frequency responce post is meaningless esp. without a actually linearity measurement in room. That Apogee is the smallest hybrid ever made and you can find many better, so dont worry. I actually have a + - 0.5db response from 110Hz to 6.3KHz in room.....a dream ;-) Only need the correction for below 110Hz with + - 2.5db to 4db and a slight boost above 6.3KHz of about 3.5db Thats 250% better then the last published review by a big boy on this forum :-)

:6:

GMichael
04-28-2006, 12:50 PM
The black box: This is ultra hi end. It's a new product that I just came out with. It hasn't been released yet so frankly, I don't know how you got your hands on this info. It listed under my name in the US patent office. Well, anyway, here's how it works. Forget electrostatics. Those are pushing Mylar films. Way too heavy. These boxes use a semi-magnetic charge to attract and repel the protons in the air molecules around it. This is what creates the sound. Nothing in this world even comes close. Move over Bose. I'm taking over.
You will no longer need CD's or LP's. These boxes work on a telepathic level. They know what songs you want to hear by reading your mind. After awhile, they will learn the type of music you like and automatically download new music from the internet to play for you. If you like it, it will know and play it more often. Here's the kicker. These boxes only cost $150.00 USD. And you only need one, as it will do anything from 2 channel to 25 channel surround. Any volume you want. Orders will start being taken by the end of May.

Florian
04-28-2006, 12:54 PM
Can i preorder one? I need to take those black things out of my room.

GMichael
04-28-2006, 12:57 PM
Can i preorder one? I need to take those black things out of my room.

I can't start taking orders until the end of May. But I'll save my prototype for you.

Florian
04-28-2006, 01:01 PM
I can't start taking orders until the end of May. But I'll save my prototype for you.

Thanks, but can you please make a snob edition out of it? I dont buy good sounding stuff, just whatever is golden and looks fancy.

GMichael
04-28-2006, 01:05 PM
Thanks, but can you please make a snob edition out of it? I dont buy good sounding stuff, just whatever is golden and looks fancy.

Can you wait till July? I'm making a new one now. It's not a box. Kind of an egg shape, about the size of a quarter. It's black with gold trim. It fits nicely in your pocket and can be warm or cool to the touch as you like it to be.

Florian
04-28-2006, 01:20 PM
Can you wait till July? I'm making a new one now. It's not a box. Kind of an egg shape, about the size of a quarter. It's black with gold trim. It fits nicely in your pocket and can be warm or cool to the touch as you like it to be.

WOW! That would be awsome, can you please also add a "audiophile battery" that looks like a 1000$ but is only 20$ like the B&W's do......Oppps....Who said that?!

GMichael
04-28-2006, 01:37 PM
WOW! That would be awsome, can you please also add a "audiophile battery" that looks like a 1000$ but is only 20$ like the B&W's do......Oppps....Who said that?!

No batteries, hydrogen powered. But it's very safe. I could have it project your initials over your head by way of a hologram.

superpanavision70mm
04-28-2006, 02:40 PM
Why don't you make it out of plutonium so you get radiation and then won't post stuff in this forum.

PAT.P
04-28-2006, 03:21 PM
Why don't you make it out of plutonium so you get radiation and then won't post stuff in this forum.Looks like your thread was hi-jack,bootlegged by those annoying salesman:ihih:

GMichael
04-28-2006, 04:29 PM
Why don't you make it out of plutonium so you get radiation and then won't post stuff in this forum.

Lot's of luck. Nice talking to you. Got any personality?

JoeE SP9
04-28-2006, 05:21 PM
Thank you Florian for your very nice comments about my rig.

I don't know what high end is other than expensive. I don't know if I have high end or not. I don't really care. I have what sounds good to me and would take a serious amount of money to better. I have been buying gear for a long time. Over the years I have had a chance to collect a lot of stuff that sounds good to me.

Amplifiers, wires and cables and all that audio esoterica didn't become important to me until I bought some MG1's in 1976. From that time on everything I have scrimped and saved for or changed has been to get gear as good as the speakers. Changing to ESL's only made that task more difficult. The modifications I have done to my Dyna MKIII's started out as changing the old GZ34 rectifier tube to diodes. It was a bad idea by the way. It seriously shortened output tube life. I believe it is because diodes need no warm up to reach operating parameters. My current MKIII's have only the transformers and choice of output tubes in common with the originals. Even the chassis' are different. My DH200's have only the casework, power switch and heatsinks in common with the originals. I use my own design hard wired input driver boards (no printed circuits). They are based on Dean Jensens discrete opamp design. The output transistors are bi-polar and I use fully regulated power supplies. The current amps are the end result of 20 years of modifications. My Adcom has only minor mods. The connectors, capacitors and resisters are much higher quality. I also added a soft start circuit because I've increased the power supply capacitence. A lot of power supply storage can suck lots of current from the wall. Without a soft start circuit you can get a local (in your house) brownout.

I'm not so much a gear head as a sound head, that's why I still use an old analog tuner. Current Accuphase gear is extremely expensive. I've never heard any reasonably priced tuner that sounded better than my analog T101. My TT started life as a VPI Jr and has been brought up to full HW19 specs. As with everything else I modify and upgrade, I have done everything over a period of years.

My attitude has been to by the best I can afford at the time with modifying and upgrading in the future as a major reason for selecting that item. This has worked well for me as my equipment list shows. The only thing I really need to upgrade now is my surround processor. I have not placed a high priority on that because 2ch music is my main thing. I must admit I do have my eyes on a Bryston crossover although I would need two.

I don't like to keep replacing things so my purchases are always made with the long haul in mind. My SP-9 MkII is stock except for NOS tubes and WBT connectors. As an engineer I have always thought things should last forever! Things that break are not properly designed and/or constructed!

All of this would be worthless without the 2000LP's, 1000CD's, and numerous DVD's, SACD's and VHS and cassette tapes I have collected. They are far more important than any of the gear.

I don't know if my gear is high end but I think the sound is.:cool:

Florian
04-28-2006, 05:43 PM
I don't know what high end is other than expensive. I don't know if I have high end or not. I don't really care. I have what sounds good to me and would take a serious amount of money to better.

Thats how i see it too :-)

JoeE SP9
04-28-2006, 08:28 PM
Hi Florian,
Glad to see you've discovered tubes. I am waiting for you to have the same kind of epiphany about vinyl.:cool:

Florian
04-28-2006, 08:34 PM
Hi Florian,
Glad to see you've discovered tubes. I am waiting for you to have the same kind of epiphany about vinyl.:cool:

Already starting with 65LP's and tube phono pre :-)
I am keeping my rare find of a preamp but i bought a Usher 1.5 Reference since 60wpc just dont cut it with the DIVA at higher volumes since they drop to 2.2ohms above 10KHz... :-)

JoeE SP9
04-28-2006, 09:00 PM
If you get serious about vinyl and I think you will, get a record cleaning machine. The cheaper ones are perfectly satisfactory. You just have to rotate the LP manually and do each side separately. They can make records that sound unlistenable quite nice. The things they can do for new or clean vinyl can be a real treat for the ears.:cool:

Florian
04-28-2006, 09:18 PM
If you get serious about vinyl and I think you will, get a record cleaning machine. The cheaper ones are perfectly satisfactory. You just have to rotate the LP manually and do each side separately. They can make records that sound unlistenable quite nice. The things they can do for new or clean vinyl can be a real treat for the ears.:cool:

Oh i will, thats for sure. I am keeping my eyes open for a broken Goldmund T3-F or a Forsell to restore. I am playing with room acoustics currently and keep finding new highs in the DIVA which only shows me how unworthy i am of this speaker. The problem is that the stage it portrais is way too large for my room. So you see a huge room and feel the air of a huge room but look around you and see a small room. Messes with your mind :-)

superpanavision70mm
04-28-2006, 11:41 PM
What about going with an 8-track player to kick out the jams?

Bernd
04-29-2006, 01:49 AM
First off, I am not sure how to quantify High End.
Second, Flo thanks very much for your kind words.
Now for the meat. To me the quality of the reproduced sound determines what I consider is worth owning. Secondary to that is, if I spent above 3k, it also has to look good and be well enginered. I am with Joe on that. Things that you spent a lot of money on shouldn't break.I wouldn't by a car with a great performance that falls apart or looks like a bad DIY job.
In my experience there is a line in sound quality (totally independent from the monetary value) when the quality of the sound changes from just playing music to setting the emotional contents of the music free and lets you hear deep into the recording. Take the Pathos Classic One amp, not sinfuly expensive and yet sounds superb and looks the business. Same for the Sugden A21. However a small number of manufacturers sell on looks alone and catch many hungry fish with their glitzy offerings.
I made costly mistakes in the past and I hope some can learn from that. When I want to upgrade I phone my Dealer friend and ask him what "sounds " great, not how many flashing lights does it have.
There also comes a point when the reproduction just changes, not better or worse, just more to the individuals likings. I can't stand bright treble emphasised system. I am a clarity listener. But most of all my system has to do something to my emotions. For instance I can't read while I listen to the main system as my mind is drawn to the music. No such problem in my study. Small system plays nice music. End of story.
And as Joe said it is the music that matters. I have been collecting for over 30 Years and that's what matters.
As for GMichael's little black box, that's part of the misconception about "High End". Punters think it needs big money and anything reasonable can't sound good. I recently heard a DIY tube amp that sounded absolutly brilliant. Total cost 150. If any of the large manufacturers would have build this and put it in a shiny box no change from 2K I would guess.
GMichael how about a trade? I have developed a fold away Pool Cue made of a new wood like substance and is self chalking. Just fold it up and put it in your pocket. You don't ever loose with that cue.:)
But seriously I would buy a GMichael black box because it is cheap. I don't think I would like to look at it.
And in my opinion if you are serious about your music you will end up with Vinyl in the end anyway as it is basically the highest resolution consumer carrier we have available to us.
And Flo, a RCM is mandatory, just get one now because you will in the end anyway.
And last but not least yes I believe we all hear differently, but one can develop a good ear by being exposed to a good system.
Phew didn't plan for an Essay but this subject is close to my heart. If we don't disspell the myth that astronomic cost is needed for great sound we will never attrackt newcomers in sufficient enough numbers.

Peace

Bernd:16:

superpanavision70mm
04-29-2006, 01:57 AM
I couldn't agree with you more Bernd. I can't stand listening to music on anything these days, but my main system. Although it's not nearly as expensive as what alot of people have...it's a work-in-progress. I am slowly building it to where I want it to be. In the meantime...it still sounds stellar and continues to improve with each upgrade and tweak. I am immediately drawn in like a King Cobra to the flute player. I have rediscovered so much music through my system that I don't even critique material until i've had a chance to play it through my gear and then take some serious listening sessions. My appreciation for music has increased vastly and it's always been high to begin with. Final thought: 8-track rules! J/k.

Florian
04-29-2006, 01:58 AM
You love Clarity eh? Then head on over to germany! :ihih:

Florian
04-29-2006, 02:02 AM
I couldn't agree with you more Bernd. I can't stand listening to music on anything these days, but my main system. Although it's not nearly as expensive as what alot of people have...it's a work-in-progress. I am slowly building it to where I want it to be. In the meantime...it still sounds stellar and continues to improve with each upgrade and tweak. I am immediately drawn in like a King Cobra to the flute player. I have rediscovered so much music through my system that I don't even critique material until i've had a chance to play it through my gear and then take some serious listening sessions. My appreciation for music has increased vastly and it's always been high to begin with. Final thought: 8-track rules! J/k.

Welcome to what i have been saying on this forum for ages. Thank Goodness the commericals are quiet now. Quality takes time, dedicattion and some money. But its all part of the fun and we all strive to a end goal. Some of us are closer then others but this makes no system any less.

superpanavision70mm
04-29-2006, 02:14 AM
Flo...

I have a new quote "Is it live or is it Florian?"

btw..I decided to go with an idea similar to yours...my new audio room is going to be done in a feudal japanese theme...should be cool with lots of red and black colors.

Florian
04-29-2006, 02:21 AM
Flo...

I have a new quote "Is it live or is it Florian?"

btw..I decided to go with an idea similar to yours...my new audio room is going to be done in a feudal japanese theme...should be cool with lots of red and black colors.

Please bare in mind that depending on your speaker choice the decor has to be chosen.

Send me your number on PM and i can give you some ideas

superpanavision70mm
04-29-2006, 02:23 AM
I'll have to once I am in the process...still a few months away...I have some construction still to do.

Florian
04-29-2006, 02:31 AM
I'll have to once I am in the process...still a few months away...I have some construction still to do.

No problem, but please make the room in an odd ratio and no door on the short wall.

-Flo

PS: And no window on the short wall

superpanavision70mm
04-29-2006, 02:45 AM
Flo...actually I am converting a single car garage into a room. It's fully insulated with no windows and only one door, but it's on the longest section of wall. I am doing a drop ceiling as well.

Florian
04-29-2006, 03:10 AM
Flo...actually I am converting a single car garage into a room. It's fully insulated with no windows and only one door, but it's on the longest section of wall. I am doing a drop ceiling as well.

Be carefull about overdamping, dipoles need reflective surfaces :-)

Wireworm5
04-29-2006, 05:25 AM
Hi-End to me is an elite sound that only comes from quality equipment. Some of these components are very expensive others not necassarily but all are above what the average consumer wishes to pay. My guess is most audio enthusiast acheive very good sound and they're happy with that and that's okay.
In my estimation if I were to start over knowing what I know now I could acheive an elite sound for no less than $4000 cdn (new stuff) in a good acoustic room. Considerably less than what I have now with the money I spent and the money I wasted.
Having acheived elite sound one can still improve on it with even better equipment. There is no limit to how much you can spend, just your budget.

Bernd
04-29-2006, 05:34 AM
Well put. Oh yes if I knew then what I know now etc etc.
However the two most cost effictive upgrades I have made were a dedicated spur with it's own consumer unit and meter used only to power the gear. And a RCM. Never looked back since.
The quality off the mains is so importany, that's what we listen to after all, and is often overlooked as spending money on something you can't see is difficult to justify for some people.

Peace

Bernd:16:

JoeE SP9
04-29-2006, 09:16 AM
Well put. Oh yes if I knew then what I know now etc etc.
However the two most cost effictive upgrades I have made were a dedicated spur with it's own consumer unit and meter used only to power the gear. And a RCM. Never looked back since.
The quality off the mains is so importany, that's what we listen to after all, and is often overlooked as spending money on something you can't see is difficult to justify for some people.

Peace

Bernd:16:

Are you saying you have a separate metered feed from the electric company supplying your rig? My friends and neighbors think I live in LaLa land because I've run 4 dedicated lines to my rig. 2 are for high current devices and 2 are for low current devices. The high current lines are on opposite legs.
To everyone who has a problem listening to some pieces of crap a neighbor has; Proselytize! Spread the word about good sound. I have introduced lots of people to good sound. Invite your neighbors in and give them a demo. Having killer sound is not like having a Ferrari. You can't park it out front and watch people walk by and drool all over it. You have to get them in your sweet spot and play something they like. Do this enough and you will convert a few. Your friends and neighbors will ask you for advice about home electronics and HT. Here is your opportunity to steer them away from "Blose" and other pieces of crap. You will give them an appreciation of good sound and sooner or later you will unearth a kindred spirit. I have infected 2 others with the high end disease. One now owns Maggy 3.6R's with custom external crossovers and the other has Wilson WATTS with Puppies and all. These two are as enthusiastic as I am about spreading the "word". Although few of my neighbors have gone the high end route the quality of sound in my inner city neighborhood has increased greatly. I like to think I have had an influence in that.
Next, I've got to do something about those truly awful automobile noise boxes.:cool:

Bernd
04-29-2006, 09:32 AM
Are you saying you have a separate metered feed from the electric company supplying your rig? My friends and neighbors think I live in LaLa land because I've run 4 dedicated lines to my rig. 2 are for high current devices and 2 are for low current devices. The high current lines are on opposite legs.
To everyone who has a problem listening to some pieces of crap a neighbor has; Proselytize! Spread the word about good sound. I have introduced lots of people to good sound. Invite your neighbors in and give them a demo. Having killer sound is not like having a Ferrari. You can't park it out front and watch people walk by and drool all over it. You have to get them in your sweet spot and play something they like. Do this enough and you will convert a few. Your friends and neighbors will ask you for advice about home electronics and HT. Here is your opportunity to steer them away from "Blose" and other pieces of crap. You will give them an appreciation of good sound and sooner or later you will unearth a kindred spirit. I have infected 2 others with the high end disease. One now owns Maggy 3.6R's with custom external crossovers and the other has Wilson WATTS with Puppies and all. These two are as enthusiastic as I am about spreading the "word". Although few of my neighbors have gone the high end route the quality of sound in my inner city neighborhood has increased greatly. I like to think I have had an influence in that.
Next, I've got to do something about those truly awful automobile noise boxes.:cool:

Yep, that's exactely what I meant. I get two electricity bills. One for the whole house and one for the music room. So no cross contamination from the house appliances.
Well done for spreading the word it is a worthwhile effort. I have sat a CD converted friend, who just celebrated his 60th, in the seat a couple of months ago and played him a couple of records. His face of disbelief was a picture. He now is in the process of starting up on Vinyl again after dumping his records some years back at the local tip. I felt like crying when he told me.
But for some obscure reason our 17 year old boy has no desire for sound quality. I-pod this and download that.:confused: Each to their own. as long as he is happy and enjoys his music- great.
I am right by your side to exterminate the car boom boxes. Count me in.:cornut:

Peace

Bernd:16:

JoeE SP9
04-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Hi Bernd,
I'm secretly working on a zap gun that will blow up the amplifiers in rolling boom boxes. So far the range is only 2ft. I'm working on extending that.:out:

GMichael
04-29-2006, 11:35 AM
First off, I am not sure how to quantify High End.
Second, Flo thanks very much for your kind words.
Now for the meat. To me the quality of the reproduced sound determines what I consider is worth owning. Secondary to that is, if I spent above 3k, it also has to look good and be well enginered. I am with Joe on that. Things that you spent a lot of money on shouldn't break.I wouldn't by a car with a great performance that falls apart or looks like a bad DIY job.
In my experience there is a line in sound quality (totally independent from the monetary value) when the quality of the sound changes from just playing music to setting the emotional contents of the music free and lets you hear deep into the recording. Take the Pathos Classic One amp, not sinfuly expensive and yet sounds superb and looks the business. Same for the Sugden A21. However a small number of manufacturers sell on looks alone and catch many hungry fish with their glitzy offerings.
I made costly mistakes in the past and I hope some can learn from that. When I want to upgrade I phone my Dealer friend and ask him what "sounds " great, not how many flashing lights does it have.
There also comes a point when the reproduction just changes, not better or worse, just more to the individuals likings. I can't stand bright treble emphasised system. I am a clarity listener. But most of all my system has to do something to my emotions. For instance I can't read while I listen to the main system as my mind is drawn to the music. No such problem in my study. Small system plays nice music. End of story.
And as Joe said it is the music that matters. I have been collecting for over 30 Years and that's what matters.
As for GMichael's little black box, that's part of the misconception about "High End". Punters think it needs big money and anything reasonable can't sound good. I recently heard a DIY tube amp that sounded absolutly brilliant. Total cost 150. If any of the large manufacturers would have build this and put it in a shiny box no change from 2K I would guess.
GMichael how about a trade? I have developed a fold away Pool Cue made of a new wood like substance and is self chalking. Just fold it up and put it in your pocket. You don't ever loose with that cue.:)
But seriously I would buy a GMichael black box because it is cheap. I don't think I would like to look at it.
And in my opinion if you are serious about your music you will end up with Vinyl in the end anyway as it is basically the highest resolution consumer carrier we have available to us.
And Flo, a RCM is mandatory, just get one now because you will in the end anyway.
And last but not least yes I believe we all hear differently, but one can develop a good ear by being exposed to a good system.
Phew didn't plan for an Essay but this subject is close to my heart. If we don't disspell the myth that astronomic cost is needed for great sound we will never attrackt newcomers in sufficient enough numbers.

Peace

Bernd:16:

"You don't ever loose with that cue." You've got a deal Bernd. I'll even throw in a BOT for free.

Great sound is where the heart is.

JohnMichael
04-29-2006, 12:47 PM
Hi Bernd,
I'm secretly working on a zap gun that will blow up the amplifiers in rolling boom boxes. So far the range is only 2ft. I'm working on extending that.:out:


I always keep a couple of opera cd's in the car. A good soprano played loudly can cut through to the other driver and judging by the expressions on their face almost as annoying as their rolloing boom boxes.

superpanavision70mm
04-29-2006, 03:00 PM
I just play a recording of Tommy Guns going off and pretend like i'm a gangsta circa 1930.

Bernd
04-30-2006, 01:04 AM
"You don't ever loose with that cue." You've got a deal Bernd. I'll even throw in a BOT for free.

Great sound is where the heart is.

WOW! You are a kind man.
A black audiophile box and to top it all a B.O.T. of my own. My friend, this deal is a steal.
Done!:)
The "always win cue" will be in the mail on Tuesday.

Great sound is indeed where the heart is.:6:

Peace

Bernd:16:

Bernd
04-30-2006, 01:06 AM
Hi Bernd,
I'm secretly working on a zap gun that will blow up the amplifiers in rolling boom boxes. So far the range is only 2ft. I'm working on extending that.:out:

Man you gotta work harder on that.:cornut: I can help now as my cue project is finished.:idea:
How is you this fine Sunday morn.?

Peace

Bernd:5:

GMichael
04-30-2006, 06:52 AM
WOW! You are a kind man.
A black audiophile box and to top it all a B.O.T. of my own. My friend, this deal is a steal.
Done!:)
The "always win cue" will be in the mail on Tuesday.

Great sound is indeed where the heart is.:6:

Peace

Bernd:16:

Great! The B.O.T. is getting boxed up now. The audiophile box will be sent out by the end of May.
Watch for me on ESPN.

JoeE SP9
05-01-2006, 07:28 AM
Man you gotta work harder on that.:cornut: I can help now as my cue project is finished.:idea:
How is you this fine Sunday morn.?

Peace

Bernd:5:

I had two different research lines. I've given up on the hammer as my arm is only so long. I have been working on my pistol accuracy. The problem there is you don't always know the exact location of the amp(s) so multiple shots are sometimes required. I might try some double o buckshot. My aim wouldn't be so critical that way.
I was unable to respond yesterday. I spent most of of the day and night rebuilding and restoring a file server. Not having decent backups has good and bad points. The bad being more work to fix. The good being more money I can charge.:cool: