too much bass

[monstapete]

I need some help. I have a wonderful pair of floorstanding speakers however, I have recently moved and, due to room, furniture and wife issues, have been forced to place the speakers in the corners of the room. While still looking good, unfortunately the bass output has become overwhelming due to the speaker positioning and I have been forced to plug the bass ports in order to gain some sort of control.
I have toyed with the idea of placing some acoustic foam on the walls behind the speakers to stop the bass being reinforced by the back wall but was unsure whether this was the right move. Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to this problem which will keep the bass under control?

[superpanavision70mm]

what type of speakers are they?

[monstapete]

Osborn Eclipse

[monstapete]

Is there nobody out there with the knowledge to help me?

[N. Abstentia]

The obvious answer would be..take them out of the corners. They are corner loaded, what did you expect?

[DPM]

You could try to raise them off of the floor a bit. That would help alleviate one source of bass reinforcement. You may also find that the imaging may improve. That has happened with me and my towers. When I first bought them, I placed my Hales Revelation Threes on 4 inch thick cinder blocks to lessen the chance of bothering my neighbor downstairs. The improved imaging was a welcome surprise.

If you can't use cinder blocks, build yourself some wooden platforms. Just don't spend too much $ until you see if the improvement is worth the expense.

[monstapete]

DPM - Thanks for the suggestion. I already have the speakers on spikes into sandstone blocks which are then isolated from the hardwood floor with silicone. But I will try cinder blocks.

N. Absentia - Did you actually read my post before replying?

[MikeyBC]

due to room, furniture and wife issues

I dont believe its a furniture or room issue at all :ihih:

[drseid]

Unfortunately I don't think there is much that you can do without replacing the speakers, as those are not dedigned for vorner placement (as you have already surmised).

I would look on the used market for speakers that are designed for corner placement... I think RGA can give you some help there... ;-)

---Dave

[kexodusc]

First, don't plug the ports on your speakers unless your manufacturer clearly says you can do that. At the tuning frequency of the port/cabinet, your woofers are protected, and excursion is at a minimum. In a closed box system, that excursion will soar to a maximum. Even a few watts can damage woofers, be careful there. Some speakers can get away with it, some absolutely cannot. What's worse, the ported box volume is likey much larger than an optimal closed box volume, and drastically changing the slope of bass response.

Second, don't sell your speakers just yet. That's an aweful expensive correction, and while it may be necessary in the end, I would exhaust every practical option first.

Your corner placement is causing huge reinforcement at various frequencies, probably some cancellations too. Corner absorption material will alleviate that. There's plenty of different options out there.
I like your idea of treating the corners with acoustic material. But please, don't use acoustic foam. Acoustic foam is a great, practical option for flutter echo, 1st reflections and mid range/high frequency absorption. Unfortunately it sucks for bass. And those foams that are designed for corner bass trapping are extremely expensive.

Instead, I'd recommend you consider some bass traps made with rigid fiberglass (yellow fiberglass board stuff you find in heating/air conditioning systems).

http://realtraps.com

This place is really popular for commercial options. Alternatively you could build them yourself quite easily and for very cheap if you're up to the task. I'm currently working on a few hundred square feet of absorption panels to replace my Auralex and Sonotec acoustic foam. Buy some rigid fiberglass, Owens Corning 703 or 705 for example (any 3lbs density or higher rigid fiberglass will do, OC is the most expensive) and cut it into 2 ft wide (or as wide as you can justify) strips and place them a cross the corners the full height of the room behind your speakers. I used a 2 X 4's and 2 X 2's to build my frames, then wrapped them in burlap and some fancy Guilfords of Maine fabric. The burlap is cheapest.

I bought a roominator kit from Auralex to go with a bunch of studio wedge panels a friend gave me. The kit itself was $150 for 96 sq feet coverage and a few "corner" bass trap pieces. For that same price you can get the same amount of material, but it's absorption coefficients are much higher than acoustic foam, over double at 250 Hz, and over 5 times higher at 100 Hz and below. I suspect that's where your problems are. If you just want enough to do the corners, you wouldn't even need to spend that.

I'd just start with corner bass traps for now, possibly some material on the side and front wall adjacent to the corner traps. Cheaper and better than foam.

Acoustic treatment might not solve all the bass problems, but it's a good idea for a number of reasons. Every room needs bass traps and some absorption to even out the response. Any replacement speaker you get that is intended for use in the corner will also benefit from bass treatement. It's probably a lot cheaper than buying a whole new set of speakers too.

If you're interested in some DIY recipes for building your own bass traps drop me a PM and I can forward you some instruction files. I'll see if I can't find some good weblinks, too.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Corner based bass traps are only really good down to 60hz or so. If your speakers are in a corner, then it is likely all bass from the point the output becomes fully hemispherical down to its lower limit you are going to have corner loading. Bass traps will not help if you don't move the speakers. If you move the speakers, you will find that your bass loading problem becomes less and less a problem.

All the traps are useless in the face of bad speaker placement.

[E-Stat]

Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to this problem which will keep the bass under control?
If you cannot get them out of the corners, elevate them to minimize floor coupling. I use that approach with a stacked pair of Advents for the same reason.

rw

[kexodusc]

Corner based bass traps are only really good down to 60hz or so. your speakers are in a corner, then it is likely all bass from the point the output becomes fully hemispherical down to its lower limit you are going to have corner loading. Bass traps will not help if you don't move the speakers. If you move the speakers, you will find that your bass loading problem becomes less and less a problem.

All the traps are useless in the face of bad speaker placement.

This is true...Perhaps EQ'ing is called for here?

I still like the idea of corner traps though. When I moved my main speakers into a smaller room I was forced to placed them 12" closer to the side wall, and about 8" closer to the back, much closer to the corners obviously (studio not as deep or wide as my old one). I'm making an assumption based on the original poster's comments that the room is a bit smaller than the previous one and that because of the reasons he stated, suggestions for better speaker placement are wasted.

If the room is smaller, would the room modes not occur at both higher frequencies (more likely in the range of bass frequencies found in music and therefore more noticeable) and slightly higher intensities? Corner trapping could at least compensate for this and absorb some bass...making the overall sound better, if not ideal.

I'm just giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that if better placement was an option, he'd have already done so.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This is true...Perhaps EQ'ing is called for here?

I still like the idea of corner traps though. When I moved my main speakers into a smaller room I was forced to placed them 12" closer to the side wall, and about 8" closer to the back, much closer to the corners obviously (studio not as deep or wide as my old one). I'm making an assumption based on the original poster's comments that the room is a bit smaller than the previous one and that because of the reasons he stated, suggestions for better speaker placement are wasted.

Corner traps will help some, but if your speaker is backed up in a corner, you will have bass reinforcement going much lower than a trap will deal with. If the room is small, try and move the speakers as far away from the corners as you can, put the bass traps in, and eq whatever problems are left. Bass traps and EQ alone without any speaker movement are not likely to conquer all of the issues corner loading imparts on speaker performance. Early reflections kill imaging, speakers placed close to boundaries at slightly different distances produces uneven soundstaging etc..


If the room is smaller, would the room modes not occur at both higher frequencies (more likely in the range of bass frequencies found in music and therefore more noticeable) and slightly higher intensities? Corner trapping could at least compensate for this and absorb some bass...making the overall sound better, if not ideal.

Yes you are correct, but placing speakers in high pressure zones where subs belong doesn't just excite room modes, but it FULLY excites them. This is great for subs, but lousy for main speakers. Also the corner also loads the speakers like a infinite baffle would. It will amplify the launch of bass frequencies.

Its dangerous to put all of your eggs in one basket. A combination of EQ, bass traps, and good placement always win.

I'm just giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that if better placement was an option, he'd have already done so.[/QUOTE]

[Geoffcin]

I need some help. I have a wonderful pair of floorstanding speakers however, I have recently moved and, due to room, furniture and wife issues, have been forced to place the speakers in the corners of the room. While still looking good, unfortunately the bass output has become overwhelming due to the speaker positioning and I have been forced to plug the bass ports in order to gain some sort of control.
I have toyed with the idea of placing some acoustic foam on the walls behind the speakers to stop the bass being reinforced by the back wall but was unsure whether this was the right move. Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to this problem which will keep the bass under control?

Counterintuitively a small subwoofer could cure your problems. If properly placed, a sub would blend well with your speakers, and give you control over both bass output, and debth.

[kexodusc]

Corner traps will help some, but if your speaker is backed up in a corner, you will have bass reinforcement going much lower than a trap will deal with. If the room is small, try and move the speakers as far away from the corners as you can, put the bass traps in, and eq whatever problems are left. Bass traps and EQ alone without any speaker movement are not likely to conquer all of the issues corner loading imparts on speaker performance. Early reflections kill imaging, speakers placed close to boundaries at slightly different distances produces uneven soundstaging etc..



Yes you are correct, but placing speakers in high pressure zones where subs belong doesn't just excite room modes, but it FULLY excites them. This is great for subs, but lousy for main speakers. Also the corner also loads the speakers like a infinite baffle would. It will amplify the launch of bass frequencies.

Its dangerous to put all of your eggs in one basket. A combination of EQ, bass traps, and good placement always win.



That's why Terrence is a "Sir" and I'm just a lowly peon. :D

[DPM]

DPM - Thanks for the suggestion. I already have the speakers on spikes into sandstone blocks which are then isolated from the hardwood floor with silicone. But I will try cinder blocks.

N. Absentia - Did you actually read my post before replying?

...that matter. It's the distance from the floor.

The reason I used cinder blocks is because they were cheap, sturdy and raised my speakers 4 inches--which was about the same height as the platforms Hales offered as an add-on to the speakers (for too much $).

It sounds to me that you've already got your speakers elevated a bit. Since that isn't working, you'll probably have to try some kind of acoustic absorption (ala bass traps) or opt for crossing over to a subwoofer.

[monstapete]

Thank you all very much for your replies.

My room is about 3.5m x 5.7m and the speakers are on the short wall. I have got them at about 40cm from the front wall and about 30cm from the side. Pulling them further out is only an option if I lock my wife out of the house! Which is more important - distance from back wall or side wall?

[superpanavision70mm]

maybe you have too much speaker for too little room?

[monstapete]

maybe you have too much speaker for too little room?
This is the dreaded realisation that I am struggling to come to terms with!

[MR Bubble]

Maybe you're going about it all wrong here. This is what I'd do:

Each day, move your speakers out about 1/2". This is so small of an adjustment, the wife won't really notice for a while. By the time she actually does notice, you may have them out by a foot.

In this situation, my wife would (one day) point at a speaker, while looking at me and say something like, "Oh, and by the way, I know what you're trying to do!"

Then because of the dumb, pitiful look I'd get on my face, and by claiming she's the "Stereo Nazi," she'd eventually lighten up.

I refuse to be held responsible for damages.

[ruadmaa]

I need some help. I have a wonderful pair of floorstanding speakers however, I have recently moved and, due to room, furniture and wife issues, have been forced to place the speakers in the corners of the room. While still looking good, unfortunately the bass output has become overwhelming due to the speaker positioning and I have been forced to plug the bass ports in order to gain some sort of control.
I have toyed with the idea of placing some acoustic foam on the walls behind the speakers to stop the bass being reinforced by the back wall but was unsure whether this was the right move. Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to this problem which will keep the bass under control?

Have you turned down the bass control on the receiver. Seems to me that the bass can be turned down to just about nothing on any receiver. I have a large pair of 12 inch 4 way tower speakers placed in corners in an 18 X 20 ft room and have no problem whatsoever.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Have you turned down the bass control on the receiver. Seems to me that the bass can be turned down to just about nothing on any receiver. I have a large pair of 12 inch 4 way tower speakers placed in corners in an 18 X 20 ft room and have no problem whatsoever.

Unfortunately the bass controls on most receivers have a center frequency at 100hz. This will not deal with any frequencies below 60hz very effectively.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

maybe you have too much speaker for too little room?

His room is 11ftx18ft and his speakers are 11 inches from the side wall(way too close) and 15 inches from the back wall (also too close)

I don't think his room is too small, but the layout of that room may not be optimal.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Have you turned down the bass control on the receiver. Seems to me that the bass can be turned down to just about nothing on any receiver. I have a large pair of 12 inch 4 way tower speakers placed in corners in an 18 X 20 ft room and have no problem whatsoever.

I bet if I bought my RTA into your room, you would SEE that you do have a problem. I think you have grown accustom to the way it sounds. ANY speaker tucked into a corner will have a elevated bass response, and poor imaging. I bet if you had a point of reference (a correctly positioned speaker) you would here the difference.

[emaidel]

Here's a solution that ought to generate lots of comments: buy a Bose wave radio!

Then, if you're ready for the onslaught of ridicule, post it here that you actually did buy it! You sure won't get too much bass, but then you won't get much of anything else either - except ripped off due to its price tag of well over $1,000 for a plastic box and $20 worth of componentry.

Just my attempt at some humor...

[ruadmaa]

I bet if I bought my RTA into your room, you would SEE that you do have a problem. I think you have grown accustom to the way it sounds. ANY speaker tucked into a corner will have a elevated bass response, and poor imaging. I bet if you had a point of reference (a correctly positioned speaker) you would here the difference.

I prefer the audio just the way it is. Whether it is correct by anyone else's standard is of no concern of mine. My bass does not sound boomy and to my ears sounds very close to a live performance.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I prefer the audio just the way it is. Whether it is correct by anyone else's standard is of no concern of mine. My bass does not sound boomy and to my ears sounds very close to a live performance.

Anything can sound exactly the way we want it, especially if we don't care about what is correct or balanced. As I said before, you are used to it whether it is right or completely wrong.

[Woochifer]

As others have said, the corner loading is the culprit. I don't think it's necessarily that the amount of bass is too much. It's probably more about the unevenness in the bass that corner loading can create. Rooms your size will already create boomy peaks and/or cancellations, but the corner loading reinforces these frequencies and accentuates room induced issues. Peaks can make the bass seem louder and more overwhelming than it actually is. Ideally, you want the bass to sound full and extended, and room induced problems will typically make the bass sound alternately loud with certain notes, and anemic with others.

If you absolutely cannot move the speakers, then ironically, the way to tone down the bass might be to add a subwoofer (units with 10" woofers can measure as little as 13" wide, which is a very WAF friendly size). By using a subwoofer with either a speaker level crossover or receiver/processor-implemented bass management, you can independently set the levels for the low frequencies. A subwoofer (provided that you use a line-level subwoofer output from a receiver/processor) also gives you the option of attaching a parametric equalizer to even out the bass response. By evening out the bass, you eliminate those boomy peaks that make the bass unlistenable.