Israel

[JOEBIALEK]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.

[markw]

So, do you have anything to add to this forum, or are you simply hate baiting.

Personally, after this post and your occasional dropping of a fart and walking away, I'm for simply not letting you post here anymore.

After all, this IS essentially an audio forum and, due to your lack of anything audio in any of your posts, why the hell ARE you here? It's not like you're part of the communitiy. You just stop by to drop off garbage and then you're on your merry little way until you get another bladder full you want to unload.

[trollgirl]

Joe:

Like the General said in "The 5th Element": "You're going to have to work on those commumication skills!" I agree with some of what you say, but try to make only a point or two, and those in a way that the reader can digest. I have found that if you turn the kalidescope too fast, you can just lose people. Too much rant, and people tune you out. I know - I've done it myself.

How about something simple and foundational and straightforward, like this: Now that the Jews have gone and set up their secular State in Palestine, they can no longer hide behind the cover of religious tolerance, but must step onto the political stage and take their lumps with the rest of us. It seems reasonable to me, but I'm sure others will take another tack, they always do, but there it is, simple and arguable. At least it does not [I hope] set up a belligerent tone from the get-go. There, lesson over. Oh, and get past the "Newbie" stage before tackling topics like this, please...

Laz

[kexodusc]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.

Does this guy actually believe all this crap?

[shokhead]

Him and too many others.

[shokhead]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.

So wipe them out{gods children} why?

[trollgirl]

So wipe them out{gods children} why?


It is fashionable in some circles [or is it squares, don't get me started...] to label Jews as different and baser than the rest of us. If you think about it for awhile, you realize that even if all they say is true, the Evil they ascribe to Jews also applies to the rest of us. Let's deal with things honestly and forthrightly. Consider all the populations that the Spanish converted to corpses, an example off the top of my head. Consider the world-wide butchery of the oh-so-civilized Brits. Who else: Mongols, Chinese, Japs, Paks, Indians, French, Romans, Greeks, Russians, and Americans too - all killers at one time or another. So why scapegoat? We're all like that inside. And yet, we're all God's children too.

BTW, a few human groups stand out, at least relatively. I think of the Inuit and the Irish, but I'm sure there are others more peaceable than most [nevermind those bar fights]. Maybe it's a simple matter of the percentage of sociopaths born into a population...

Laz

[JoeE SP9]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.
What happened to you? Did a young sabra refuse to give you some in college? Were you unable to get into college because because some Jewish guy "cheated" on the SAT's?
I would say "you sir are a bigot" but you don't deserve the "Sir". You are simply a bigot trying to hide his bigotry under the guise of a "logical" argument.
I would like the name of one historian who believes Jewish investment money sponsered the slave trade.
You should go live in Iran. They hate Jews and don't believe in the holocaust. You are the kind of person who makes me ashamed to be an American.
How can anyone expect Muslims to get along with Jews or anyone else when they can't get along with each other? They are fighting each other over a question of the succession of the prophet. Any group of nuts who go to war over who was next in line to lead a couple of hundred years ago will have difficulty getting along with anyone.
If you think dealing with Isreal and the Jewish state is bad, think about a middle east with nothing but Muslims. Think about a religion where changing to Christianity or anything else is cause for execution? Think about a religion that advocates no education for women. Think about a religion that allows no one, not even unbelievers to make jokes about Muhammed. Think about a religion that has no concept of the separation of church and state. Think about a religion that wants a completely Islamic world. Think about a religion that tolerates no other religions?
You are just spouting that same old redneck KKK BS. You want to get rid of the Jews. If you thought you could get away with it you would probably say something about getting rid of blacks in America. You would cut of your nose to spite your face.
You should give Saudi Arabia a try. It's a Muslim country. Just try to find a Christian church or a Synagogue there. They don't exist. Islamic law does not allow them. Where would you be able to pray to your lilly white god who really wasn't a "Jewish" carpenter?
You or I could live in Isreal and practice whatever religion we wanted. So what if we couldn't become citizens. We can't become Japanese either but you are not complaining about that. As I said you are just a bigot trying his best to sound reasonable. All things considered you are still nothing more than a bigot.:cool:

[Bernd]

What happened to you? Did a young sabra refuse to give you some in college? Were you unable to get into college because because some Jewish guy "cheated" on the SAT's?
I would say "you sir are a bigot" but you don't deserve the "Sir". You are simply a bigot trying to hide his bigotry under the guise of a "logical" argument.
I would like the name of one historian who believes Jewish investment money sponsered the slave trade.
You should go live in Iran. They hate Jews and don't believe in the holocaust. You are the kind of person who makes me ashamed to be an American.
How can anyone expect Muslims to get along with Jews or anyone else when they can't get along with each other? They are fighting each other over a question of the succession of the prophet. Any group of nuts who go to war over who was next in line to lead a couple of hundred years ago will have difficulty getting along with anyone.
If you think dealing with Isreal and the Jewish state is bad, think about a middle east with nothing but Muslims. Think about a religion where changing to Christianity or anything else is cause for execution? Think about a religion that advocates no education for women. Think about a religion that allows no one, not even unbelievers to make jokes about Muhammed. Think about a religion that has no concept of the separation of church and state. Think about a religion that wants a completely Islamic world. Think about a religion that tolerates no other religions?
You are just spouting that same old redneck KKK BS. You want to get rid of the Jews. If you thought you could get away with it you would probably say something about getting rid of blacks in America. You would cut of your nose to spite your face.
You should give Saudi Arabia a try. It's a Muslim country. Just try to find a Christian church or a Synagogue there. They don't exist. Islamic law does not allow them. Where would you be able to pray to your lilly white god who really wasn't a "Jewish" carpenter?
You or I could live in Isreal and practice whatever religion we wanted. So what if we couldn't become citizens. We can't become Japanese either but you are not complaining about that. As I said you are just a bigot trying his best to sound reasonable. All things considered you are still nothing more than a bigot.:cool:


Very well put JoeE SP9.

All I can add is that any people that have endured such suffering as the Jewish people had are entitled to a helping hand, so that history does not repeat itself, and yes the state of Israel is fallable like the rest of us. This is our home it's the only one we've got so moving is not an option. We have to get along with one another.

Peace

Bernd:17:

[JoeE SP9]

The Islamic world would hate the US if Israel did not exist. The root of the problem is that American culture and values are what the world aspires to. The Islamic world is simply pissed off that their culture and morals are not the world standard. If there were falafel and humus stands on every other corner instead of Micky D's and Burger Kings Islamists would be a lot happier. Just remember they (Islamists) will not be happy until we have a fully Islamic world. Gee, just think of a world with no beer!

[Bernd]

Just remember they (Islamists) will not be happy until we have a fully Islamic world. Gee, just think of a world with no beer!

That's what the Koran say's. The same as Hitler had lined out his intentions in "Mein Kampf". And nobody took the time to read it or took it serious.
I am sure that one day we will have an islamic resident in No.10 Downing Street. Hopefully I am gone by then.

One point so, I don't believe that all the world aspires to american values (whatever they may be).

And no, man, a world without beer, unthinkable-now that is something to become a martyr for.

Peace

Bernd:6:

[JoeE SP9]

Very well put JoeE SP9.

All I can add is that any people that have endured such suffering as the Jewish people had are entitled to a helping hand, so that history does not repeat itself, and yes the state of Israel is fallable like the rest of us. This is our home it's the only one we've got so moving is not an option. We have to get along with one another.

Peace

Bernd:17:
When I was younger I was more tolerant. My attitude now is quite different. I am sick and tired of some half intelligent yahoo coming up with all kinds of off the wall reasons to bolster their own branch of bigotry. Those who keep pushing that BS should be forced to push it elswhere. Islamic countries are my choice. Dissent there is very rapidly squashed. They can be anti Jewish all they want. However, their "lilly white Christian God" is not allowed. This will give them a chance to feel how persecuted minorities actually get treated. Maybe then they will stop complaining about being persecuted here.
My father was career military. I grew up travelling all over the world. I myself am a veteran. Been there seen that sums up my life. There are some who just don't deserve the privilege of living here. They don't appreciate what they have and never will. If you don't think it's better here, try living somewhere else. Canada doesn't count. It's kinda like the burbs with rotten weather.
FWIW I dislike all organized religions. I am also against all immigration from anywhere by anyone. I am also against foreign students occupying spaces in US colleges.:cool:

[shokhead]

Very well put JoeE SP9.

All I can add is that any people that have endured such suffering as the Jewish people had are entitled to a helping hand, so that history does not repeat itself, and yes the state of Israel is fallable like the rest of us. This is our home it's the only one we've got so moving is not an option. We have to get along with one another.

Peace

Bernd:17:

The world will NEVER get along. I'm feeling there is going to be a big a$$ war{much,much more then the little thing we are in now} in our lifetime.

[JoeE SP9]

That's what the Koran say's. The same as Hitler had lined out his intentions in "Mein Kampf". And nobody took the time to read it or took it serious.
I am sure that one day we will have an islamic resident in No.10 Downing Street. Hopefully I am gone by then.

One point so, I don't believe that all the world aspires to american values (whatever they may be).

And no, man, a world without beer, unthinkable-now that is something to become a martyr for.

Peace

Bernd:6: Maybe I should say western values personified by America.:cool:

[Bernd]

[QUOTE=JoeE SP9)

FWIW I dislike all organized religions.:cool:[/QUOTE]

I am with you on that one, 100%.

Must say though, I am really happy living in Europe and I have no desire whatsoever to live in the US. A great place to visit but always good to leave and go back home.
On top of that we have better Beer over here.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[JoeE SP9]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.

I ask again. Name a historian that believes Jewish investment money financed the slave trade. If you can't respond, kindly keep your KKK propaganda to yourself and other mental defectives. :ciappa:

[Resident Loser]

...but money from many sources backed the slave trade, so how might the Jews not be culpable to some degree, perhaps to a great one...further investigation may be required...however, some out there may really want to investigate history...starting with the Zionist movement of the late 19th century...I've cited some of the salient facts on these pages in the past...it was called Palestine for a good reason...

Brain-teaser time: Which member of the Jefferson Davis' cabinet was a Jew and may have eluded capture by traveling from Florida to England with some portion of the CSAs (read: slaveholder's) treasury?

jimHJJ(...and until 1962 the U.S. State department considered Israel a Zionist state...and...maybe tomorrow...)

[GMichael]

The haters of the world will be the first against the wall when the revolution begins.

[SlumpBuster]

Okay, I know this is the "Off topic/non-audio" forum, but have some decorum. Sheesh!

As to the original poster, I just checked, he has never made an audio related posting... ever. I think I'm going to join a forum about clog dancing, but never converse about clog dancing.

I am confident in my assesment that JoeBailek is a tool of the first order. Boob.

[shokhead]

OP is really a Jew.

[JoeE SP9]

I am with you on that one, 100%.

Must say though, I am really happy living in Europe and I have no desire whatsoever to live in the US. A great place to visit but always good to leave and go back home.
On top of that we have better Beer over here.

Peace

Bernd:16:
What better beer? I hope you don't mean that mud you call Stout. Although Watney's isn't bad, I like it colder than it is served there. I keep seeing Budweiser bottles on the telly during shows from the beeb. Do you folks over there actually pay import prices to drink that swill? Next time you come here for a visit stop by and we will hoist a few.:cool:

[JoeE SP9]

[/quote]
BTW, a few human groups stand out, at least relatively. I think of the Inuit and the Irish, but I'm sure there are others more peaceable than most [nevermind those bar fights]. Maybe it's a simple matter of the percentage of sociopaths born into a population...
[/quote]

Come on trollgirl, have you not heard of northern Ireland. There are two Christian factions fighting over things. They have been doing so for years. I know there are those who will blame the British but that's neither fair nor completely accurate.:cool:

[Bernd]

What better beer? I hope you don't mean that mud you call Stout. Although Watney's isn't bad, I like it colder than it is served there. I keep seeing Budweiser bottles on the telly during shows from the beeb. Do you folks over there actually pay import prices to drink that swill? Next time you come here for a visit stop by and we will hoist a few.:cool:

No I hate that warm swill myself. There are some small breweries who keep the flag flying, but I am more your Pilsner man. Pilsner Urquell, Budweiser Budvar,Schultheiss,Weihenstephan, and some other german and dutch beers tickle my tastebuds.
And yes the fashion brigade pay top dollar for budweiser,millers, etc and some dreadful australian brews.
I would love to sink a few with you and quite possible will take you up on your offer.Maybe we can all meet at GMichael house warming. Now that would be something. Anyway if you're ever over here...well you know.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[GMichael]

Maybe we can all meet at GMichael house warming. Now that would be something. Anyway if you're ever over here...well you know.

Peace

Bernd:16:

Works for me. Just give me a list of what everyone likes to drink. We'll make sure we have some of each.
Hope you like hotdogs & hamburgers.

[Bernd]

Works for me. Just give me a list of what everyone likes to drink. We'll make sure we have some of each.
Hope you like hotdogs & hamburgers.

Sorry Mike, didn't mean to put you on the spot with the Party. But if a gathering of like minded fools would to take place to toast chez GMichael, you can count me in.
How is it progressing?

Peace

Bernd:9:

[GMichael]

Sorry Mike, didn't mean to put you on the spot with the Party. But if a gathering of like minded fools would to take place to toast chez GMichael, you can count me in.
How is it progressing?

Peace

Bernd:9:

Just got off the phone with our builder. He's pouring the foundation today. I have the application for water hook-up ready to be sent in (with a check for $800) and the gas hook-up application goes in the mail tomorrow. Funny thing with the gas form. I have to sign that I agree to pay "the charges." No mention as to what those charges are. Not that I have much choice.
Framing will begin after the bank inspects the foundation and sends our builder a check for it.

As for the party, let's have it over a long weekend. I don't have a mega system like some here are used to, but it does OK. And there will be some kind of music in every room. I even have a TT from the dark ages. We'll have two refrigerators so there will be plenty of brew. Maybe some wine for you, JohnMichael & a few other wine & cheese guys.
I've talked to a few of the girls in the mud competition. Some may be busy, but there should be a few that can make it.

[Kam]

How can anyone expect Muslims to get along with Jews or anyone else when they can't get along with each other? They are fighting each other over a question of the succession of the prophet. Any group of nuts who go to war over who was next in line to lead a couple of hundred years ago will have difficulty getting along with anyone.
If you think dealing with Isreal and the Jewish state is bad, think about a middle east with nothing but Muslims. Think about a religion where changing to Christianity or anything else is cause for execution? Think about a religion that advocates no education for women. Think about a religion that allows no one, not even unbelievers to make jokes about Muhammed. Think about a religion that has no concept of the separation of church and state. Think about a religion that wants a completely Islamic world. Think about a religion that tolerates no other religions? ....... As I said you are just a bigot trying his best to sound reasonable. All things considered you are still nothing more than a bigot.:cool:

(i realize intent/tone is hard to decipher at times online, since you can't "hear" the tone, but this is not meant as an attack and meant in as friendly/peaceably a tone as possible:) )
Hate getting involved in these discussions, and fwiw, i also am not a fan of organized religion, but it just seems (and i obviously dont know all your views, just going on this discussion) that you are as closed-minded about islam and muslims as this guy is about israel and jews. i am not an expert of all religions by any stretch, but i've studied a few of them and am the most familiar with islam (and all its, along with many other religions', faults). Take the above paragraph, if you inserted "culture" in every place you have "religion" i would agree with you (other than the making fun of the prophet, which, i believe you are correct is in the religios texts that say that, however i agree that this doesnt make any sense to me either, and i dont believe it is in the koran itself but of the secondary texts of islam). the culture of arab states is abhorable, the religion of islam, while, yes, having its own faults, is not nerely as brutal as the culture. your statement of "Think about a religion that tolerates no other religions?" is false. Islam tolerates all other religions and believes in all the other prophets, the arab cultures, on the other hand, do not. just seems like his myopic take on israel/jews is similar to yours on islam. there are a great number of fanatics out there of all religions, and yes the muslim fanatics are quite possibly the worst and are scary as hell, but i'd like to think we dont condemn all on the basis of the few. (otherwise i guess all american born, white males in their 30s are serial killers). yes there are extremists in iran and that is troublesome, but i take it you know the viewpoint of every single irani citizen? personally i do know people from iran who love this country (america), the opportunities they have been given here and do not agree with the anti-american sentiment ascribed to all iranians. that's just my own experience, i guess yours have been different.

and your statement: "How can anyone expect Muslims to get along with Jews or anyone else when they can't get along with each other?"
We here in america are a bright shining example of that ourselves. it is kinda tough to point our collective finger, imo, at third world/ muslim nations and say: oh look you lil people, arguing amongst each other like little kids who just can't get along... we have quite a few problems here we need to take care of here ourselves before we can step up any moral ladder.
Just would be nice if we could all get along, not likely i'm sure, and i may be a fool for hoping for peace, but i'll gladly be the fool and go on hoping, rather than admit we are all going to hate each other forever.
peace
k2

[Resident Loser]

...question: Judah P. Benjamin, Attorney-General of the Confederacy.

I love it when critics of certain racial or religious groups are instantly labeled card-carrying members of the KKK when unpleasant and/or critical remarks about those groups are made.

Examples such as, free blacks in the south owned slaves, black Africans sold other black Africans into slavery and now add to the list: Jews were complicit in the slave trade.

Given the fact that down through history, Jews were and are a dominant and (some might say) controlling segment of the financial and mercantile elite...further that four continents and countless individuals and groups were involved in the trans-Atlantic slave trade...it is really beyond reason to somehow ignore those facts and categorically exculpate them from any participation in the trade.

Some salient text follows:

"...The history that the old "Black-Jewish Coalition" clumsily avoids is the entire three century history of Jewish presence in South America and the Caribbean. But other highly acclaimed Jewish scholars have not been so blind:

Lee M. Friedman, a one-time president of the American Jewish Historical Society, wrote that in Brazil, where most of the Africans actually went, "the bulk of the slave trade was in the hands of Jewish settlers."

Marcus Arkin wrote that the Jews of Surinam used "many thousands" of Black slaves.

Herbert I. Bloom wrote that "the slave trade was one of the most important Jewish activities here (in Surinam) as elsewhere in the colonies." He even published a 1707 list of Jewish buyers by name with the number of Black humans they purchased.

Cecil Roth, writer of 30 books and hundreds of articles on Jewish history, wrote that the slave revolts in parts of South America "were largely directed against [Jews] as being the greatest slave-holders of the region."

"I gather," wrote Jewish scholar Wilfred Samuels, "that the Jews [of Barbados] made a good deal of their money by purchasing and hiring out negroes..."

According to the Jewish historians, all Barbadian Jews owned slaves - even the rabbi had "the enjoyment of his own two negro attendants."
In Curaçao which was a major slave trading depot, Isaac and Susan Emmanuel report that "the shipping business was mainly a Jewish enterprise."

Says yet another Jewish writer of the Jews of Curaçao, "Almost every Jew bought from one to nine slaves for his personal use or for eventual resale."

Seymour B. Liebman in his New World Jewry, made it clear that "[t]he ships were not only owned by Jews, but were manned by Jewish crews and sailed under the command of Jewish captains."

Moshe Kahan stated bluntly that in 1653-1658, " Jewish-Marrano merchants were in control of the Spanish and Portuguese trade, were almost in control of the Levantine trade...were interested in the Dutch East and West Indian companies, were heavily involved in shipping; and, most important, had at their disposal large amounts of capital."

In Brazil, where most of our kidnapped ancestors were sent, Jewish scholar Arnold Wiznitzer is most explicit about Jewish involvement:
"Besides their important position in the sugar industry and in tax farming, they dominated the slave trade. From 1636 to 1645 a total of 23,163 Negro slaves arrived from Africa and were sold for 6,714,423 florins. The West India Company, which monopolized imports of slaves from Africa, sold slaves at public auctions against cash payment. It happened that cash was mostly in the hands of Jews. The buyers who appeared at the auctions were almost always Jews, and because of this lack of competitors they could buy slaves at low prices. On the other hand, there also was no competition in the selling of the slaves to the plantation owners and other buyers, and most of them purchased on credit payable at the next harvest in sugar. Profits up to 300 percent of the purchase value were often realized with high interest rates....If it happened that the date of such an auction fell on a Jewish holiday the auction had to be postponed. This occurred on Friday, October 21, 1644."

Jews and Slavery in the Old South

The Jewish critics prefer to focus on the history of slavery in America while ignoring our kidnapped African family in other parts of the Western Hemisphere. This attempt to focus the debate is designed to limit our historical inquiry and to suggest that we Blacks are to care only about our Black family within America's political boundaries. This view also conveniently limits the consideration of evidence of direct Jewish involvement as whip-wielders in the slave trade which is so abundant in the southern part of the Western Hemisphere. By the time of the Jewish migration into what is now the United States, Jews were less involved in the direct trade but remained significant beneficiaries by their involvement in the plantation economy.

Jews in the South were of the merchant class, according to a Jewish historian, having developed "a separate and distinctive accommodation to the plantation economy." The Southern planters depended upon these merchants to move their produce to market as well as for a source of supplies and financing. Jews had become commission merchants, brokers, auctioneers, cotton wholesalers, slave clothing dealers, and peddlers, keeping the slave economy oiled with money, markets and supplies...."

While there may be an agenda on the authors part, there would certainly seem to be a number of historians, Jewish historians at that, who concur with the premise of Jewish complicity in the slave trade.

The complete article is here:

http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.html

So while one might prefer to be complacently blinded by their own naivete' on the subject, they do so at their own peril.

With regard to other statements in Joebialek's post, there is some info in this prior posting that may be food for thought:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=104940

While it's original intent was a bit different, the info contained therein (the Balfour document, formation of the Arab League, etc.) is still applicable...Israel and it's policies are a significant problem for the region.

jimHJJ(...and as unpleasant as it might be to some, there is no denying it...)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

RL,
When I was studying slavery the fact the Jews showed up so prominately in slave trade really surprised me. Considering the history of slavery within the Jewish culture, I thought they would be the last group of folks having anything to do with this henious practice. Upon further reading I found that during the height of african slave trade, just about every country from Europe to the middle east was involved in slave trade in some fashion. Arabs were also.

This just goes to show that quite a few people do not seem to learn from history. Even there own. Interesting enough, it was Jews that helped me early in my film mixing career, and I am forever greatful to those people for it.

In the end, people are people. No matter what culture or religion they come from. There is good, and bad in them all. That is why I chose to look at people, and not races or religions. No one race or religion has cornered the market on hate and evil.

[trollgirl]

BTW, a few human groups stand out, at least relatively. I think of the Inuit and the Irish, but I'm sure there are others more peaceable than most [nevermind those bar fights]. Maybe it's a simple matter of the percentage of sociopaths born into a population...
[/quote]

Come on trollgirl, have you not heard of northern Ireland. There are two Christian factions fighting over things. They have been doing so for years. I know there are those who will blame the British but that's neither fair nor completely accurate.:cool:[/QUOTE]

...yes, I know all about that. However, I was trying to say that I know of no major massacres done by the Inuit or the Irish. I know that the Inuit wiped out the Viking's West Greenland colony, but they had good reason. As for the Belfast area, remember that it has more of that English blood than the rest of the island. That may not be fair or completely accurate, surely not PC, but there it is. Heck, I'm mostly English myself, but I identify more with my Swedish heritage. It's hard to hang bad things on the Swedes.

Laz

BTW, that's my name {Laz} - don't call me Trollgirl.

[trollgirl]

... just about every country from Europe to the middle east was involved in slave trade in some fashion. Arabs were also.

Yes, I read recently that Arab raiders pretty much broke European sea power in the Mediterranian Sea. They raided for slaves as far away as Iceland. You've seen the Greek and Italian costal towns which are perched way up on hills above the shore? Now you know why. Many thousands of Europeans ended their days as slaves in north Africa. If you learn enough, you find that we're all the same boat.

Laz

[JoeE SP9]

Laz

BTW, that's my name {Laz} - don't call me Trollgirl.
My most humble apologies. I was using the only name I was aware of. In the future you will be known as Laz to me.
JoeE

[Feanor]

...

On top of that we have better Beer over here.

Peace

Bernd:16:

We've get better beer in Canada too. :biggrin5: :ciappa:

And I resemble that 'burbs' remark from whoever.

[Feanor]

In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.
[ A tinge of validity here. ]

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.
[ Umm ... you've gone 'way too far ]

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.
[ Sorry, you're over the top ] .

Jew in the United State are overwhelming pro-Zionist; it has been that way since early in the last century. It's the same in here Canada. Politically correct or not to mention it, these are the facts.

I have heard more than one Jewish acquaintance say, " I don't care whether Israel is right or wrong ... "

[Florian]

Nevermind my post was too extreme.

I say "**** religion", If you think your "Gods chosen Race, then **** you!" and if you are called "Gods speaker on Earth, then **** you too!"

I am against any and all religion, no matter if Christian, Jew, Muslim or any other! This crap creates more dead bodys then anything else. And yes, Germans live in Germany, Italiens live in Italy, French live in France and so on and thats the way it should stay!

[PAT.P]

Nevermind my post was too extreme.

I say "**** religion", If you think your "Gods chosen Race, then **** you!" and if you are called "Gods speaker on Earth, then **** you too!"

I am against any and all religion, no matter if Christian, Jew, Muslim or any other! This crap creates more dead bodys then anything else. And yes, Germans live in Germany, Italiens live in Italy, French live in France and so on and thats the way it should stay!Satan as a son ! Please keep your comment on religion to you.:incazzato:

[Florian]

Satan as a son ! Please keep your comment on religion to you.:incazzato:
I will do no such thing! I am against every single and all religions there are! But as you guys say: "God loves and has a purpose for everyone".

Peace!

PS: You cant accept my opinion, and get angry already. And your wondering about the world problems?

[PAT.P]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible
In the end, people are people. No matter what culture or religion they come from. There is good, and bad in them all. That is why I chose to look at people, and not races or religions. No one race or religion has cornered the market on hate and evil.[/QUOTE]Words well spoken ,hope everyone would see the world this way.

[PAT.P]

I will do no such thing! I am against every single and all religions there are! But as you guys say: "God loves and has a purpose for everyone".

Peace!

PS: You cant accept my opinion, and get angry already. And your wondering about the world problems?If I would see people as you ,all German and Germany should be exterminated from the face of the earth after what was done in the concentration camp.But Im not like this I have German friends in Canada and dont blame them for their country past.

[markw]

And yes, Germans live in Germany, Italiens live in Italy, French live in France and so on and thats the way it should stay!Somewhat hypocritical of you, isn't it?

[JohnMichael]

Just got off the phone with our builder. He's pouring the foundation today. I have the application for water hook-up ready to be sent in (with a check for $800) and the gas hook-up application goes in the mail tomorrow. Funny thing with the gas form. I have to sign that I agree to pay "the charges." No mention as to what those charges are. Not that I have much choice.
Framing will begin after the bank inspects the foundation and sends our builder a check for it.

As for the party, let's have it over a long weekend. I don't have a mega system like some here are used to, but it does OK. And there will be some kind of music in every room. I even have a TT from the dark ages. We'll have two refrigerators so there will be plenty of brew. Maybe some wine for you, JohnMichael & a few other wine & cheese guys.
I've talked to a few of the girls in the mud competition. Some may be busy, but there should be a few that can make it.


Sounds like a great time. Enjoying your system and company. I wonder if there is an audio store where you can register for housewarming gifts. If not I guess we could buy something for the house.

[Bernd]

Sounds like a great time. Enjoying your system and company. I wonder if there is an audio store where you can register for housewarming gifts. If not I guess we could buy something for the house.

JohnMichael,

That's a good idea and a nice touch. Count me in.

Peace

Bernd:16:

[GMichael]

Sounds like a great time. Enjoying your system and company. I wonder if there is an audio store where you can register for housewarming gifts. If not I guess we could buy something for the house.

Just bring copies of your favorite CD's & DVD's. Or LP's, cassets or 8-tracks.

[GMichael]

All people have good & bad in them. No one is all good. No one is all bad.
Same goes for countries, races & religions. Sir TTT is on the right track. View each person for who they are. Not where they came from. Not what color they are. Not how much money they have. And not what God they pray or don't pray too. Remember that no matter how bad someone is, there is always a little good hidden somewhere inside. The reverse is also true.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

All people have good & bad in them. No one is all good. No one is all bad.
Same goes for countries, races & religions. Sir TTT is on the right track. View each person for who they are. Not where they came from. Not what color they are. Not how much money they have. And not what God they pray or don't pray too. Remember that no matter how bad someone is, there is always a little good hidden somewhere inside. The reverse is also true.

I am basically a nice guy, but I do have the moniker Sir Terrence the Terrible because of my previous poor behavior. :devil:

[trollgirl]

If I would see people as you ,all German and Germany should be exterminated from the face of the earth after what was done in the concentration camp.But Im not like this I have German friends in Canada and dont blame them for their country past.

It might interest you to know that it was the British who invented the concentration camp, first used, as far as I know, here in America in the 1770's and 1780's. One signer of the Declaration of Independence never saw his wife or children again. Many people disappeared that way, in that time and place. The British also used concentration camps against the Boers, and it was quite barbaric. Everybody, quit kicking the Nazis, for we all deserve a boot in the butt.

Laz

[JOEBIALEK]

only a Jew finds the truth anti-semitic

[bobsticks]

Oh God, not you again. More wisdom to share with us, eh? Erudire and succinct.:cryin:


Go back under your bridge...

[markw]

only a Jew finds the truth anti-semiticHalf truths notwithstanding, you're a typical internet troll.

Ban this flucker once and for all.