Iran

[jamison]

anyone hear the weather forecast for Iran?



cloudy and 4,000 degrees

lets just nuke them and be done with it

[jamison]

never post when your bombed outa your skulll

[trollgirl]

...are quickly taking the whole planet down the garden path to WW III.

Iran can and will fight back far better than Iraq did. In case of war, ALL US warships in the Persian Gulf will be history very quickly.

Russia and China will NOT stand by on this one. They have both warned us.

I'm glad I have no fear of death - how about you, Jamison?

Laz

[Geoffcin]

...are quickly taking the whole planet down the garden path to WW III.

Iran can and will fight back far better than Iraq did. In case of war, ALL US warships in the Persian Gulf will be history very quickly.

Russia and China will NOT stand by on this one. They have both warned us.

I'm glad I have no fear of death - how about you, Jamison?

Laz

Still, all they have to do is take out some supertankers, and land a missle or two on a Saudi oil field and the world economy goes FUBAR.

(can you say $10+ a gallon for gas?)

[kexodusc]

Still, all they have to do is take out some supertankers, and land a missle or two on a Saudi oil field and the world economy goes FUBAR.

(can you say $10+ a gallon for gas?)

I dunno...Iran's military is triple the size of Iraq's in its prime, but armed to the teeth by comparison. Ground attack is impossible. Most major military installations are underground and insulated from bomb attacks. Not to mention their equipment is decades newer than Iraq's was. Given how spread out our forces are, we'd suffer somewhere. The simple cost of going to war against them would be scary enough for me to exhaust all measures of diplomacy. I'm not sure we can afford it. Israel would help, but with China and Russia playing dangerous games, I'm not sure anyone else would be eager unless there's definitive proof of intent to use nukes. That's hard to prove.

They'll play dirty too, hide above ground installations in schools and hospitals, etc.
Not to mention they've actually got missiles that could evade anti-missile defence systems like the Patriots etc. They've got modern anti-air defence that we sold them, as well as some Russian stuff....I don't think we're in a hurry to trade haymakers with them.

If there was a snowball's chance in hell a war against Iran was even 1/4 as easy as Iraq we'd have already been in there. They've been a bigger threat Iraq ever was. Same with North Korea (who, let's face it, is the real threat these days).

I'm guessing it would come down repeated air raids and long-range assaults. We cold destroy their economy, tear down cities and exhaust their military, but like you said, not before they waged a brutal economic assault on us. I'm not in the mood for a 10 year depression.

I don't think it'll go that far though. Iran has it pretty good and most of the population is pro-America. They're as influenced by money as any government, and why would they want to give up being a major player in the mid-east?

Can't really blame them for seeking alternative energy sources (if they aren't lying and do intend to make a nuclear plant). Why burn oil domestically when they can sell it to us for an arm and a leg?

[Bernd]

anyone hear the weather forecast for Iran?



cloudy and 4,000 degrees

lets just nuke them and be done with it

My Texan friend sent me this:

"What shall we say when history asks how such crimes came to be committed in the name of America? Will we say that we stood silently by, shrugging our shoulders, filling our bellies, closing our eyes? Or will we be able to say: We saw. We dissented. We resisted. We condemned." - Journalist Chris Floyd

Peace

Bernd:sad:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I dunno...Iran's military is triple the size of Iraq's in its prime, but armed to the teeth by comparison. Ground attack is impossible. Most major military installations are underground and insulated from bomb attacks. Not to mention their equipment is decades newer than Iraq's was. Given how spread out our forces are, we'd suffer somewhere. The simple cost of going to war against them would be scary enough for me to exhaust all measures of diplomacy. I'm not sure we can afford it. Israel would help, but with China and Russia playing dangerous games, I'm not sure anyone else would be eager unless there's definitive proof of intent to use nukes. That's hard to prove.

Unfortunely Irans military fought Iraq to a draw. Nobody won that fight. Also you have to take whatever military news that comes out of Iran with a grain of salt. Just like Iraq, Iran has a penchant for exaggerating the truth. However the American people has no stomach for war. With monthly 10 billion dollar bills coming due, I think we understand that in many cases war does not pay. Without the help of the European community (they also have no stomach for war) I wouldn't touch Iran with a twenty foot pole militarily. I think they understand that clearly, and that is why they are behaving as they are. Iran knows that the Europeans will do nothing but talk(the British are an exception), but they know we will take action if any of our interests are threatened. Even if it means pulling out of Iraq immediately.




They'll play dirty too, hide above ground installations in schools and hospitals, etc.
Not to mention they've actually got missiles that could evade anti-missile defence systems like the Patriots etc. They've got modern anti-air defence that we sold them, as well as some Russian stuff....I don't think we're in a hurry to trade haymakers with them.

Don't buy the press that they have missiles that evade patriots. We are now past patriot missle technology. Remember, Iraq also made claims their missle would get past Patriot missiles, it didn't happen. However they were also not as effective as we wanted them to be. If we sold them a anti-aircraft defense system, that was pre-stealth aircraft, and if we know the system, we could easily find its weaknesses.


If there was a snowball's chance in hell a war against Iran was even 1/4 as easy as Iraq we'd have already been in there. They've been a bigger threat Iraq ever was. Same with North Korea (who, let's face it, is the real threat these days).

North Korea has a large army based on manpower, not technology. Most of the stuff they have is 70's, and 80's Soviet technology, and they have little or no support for those system. From what I understand they bring out their best of their best stuff for their military parades, however what they leave in storage is a majority of their combat equipment.


I'm guessing it would come down repeated air raids and long-range assaults. We cold destroy their economy, tear down cities and exhaust their military, but like you said, not before they waged a brutal economic assault on us. I'm not in the mood for a 10 year depression.

We could take care of the 10 year depression by having a mandate (like we did on our space program in the 60's) on creating non gas powered vehicles, and converting our power systems to solar, and clean coal. This will be the only equalizer when dealing with the middle east. While I think China and India would fill in the vaccum that we created, the could not do it totally. Without America's dependency on oil, this would seriously weaken all middle eastern (and African) countries that depend on oil for the income. The price would drop because of the drain in demand, and their economies would be hit hard.


I don't think it'll go that far though. Iran has it pretty good and most of the population is pro-America. They're as influenced by money as any government, and why would they want to give up being a major player in the mid-east?

Iran has a huge problem. 70% of their population is below 30yo, and they are not big supporters of their dictatorship government. If a war broke out and times began to get harder than they are for the average Iranian citizen, they will not have the nationalistic support they need to fight, especially in the long term.


Can't really blame them for seeking alternative energy sources (if they aren't lying and do intend to make a nuclear plant). Why burn oil domestically when they can sell it to us for an arm and a leg?

Can't sell it for an arm and a leg forever. Secondly they want a nuke, and that is apparent to everyone, hence the larger support for derailing this, than to go to Iraq for war. France was totally against us ruining their oil contracts in Iraq, however they have no such contracts with Iran, and are walking locked step with us in making this not happen. As is Germany, and the British.

Another thing no one is discussing, but is a real problem for Iran. Its neighbors are nervous as hell about their nuke program. Iran could easily destabilize the balance of middle eastern power, and its neighbors know this well. Iran is not just building up its military to counter Israel, and I think once again its neighbors know this. Israel almost as advanced in military technology as we are, and they haven't been in a war in decades. I think Iran knows it has a very long way to go to defeat Israel in any kind of war. Especially if we support them, and I am sure you won't have to worry about any other middle eastern nations joining in support for them.

Nobody in the middle east wants to see a weapons war in the middle east. However the pressure is to either build your forces, or break down the forces of the most powerful in order to maintain a balance of power in the region. I think most middle eastern countries, and specifically Saudi Arabia wants to see Iran knocked down several notches. This would maintain the balance of power in the region.

I do not want to see a war, but I do not want to see nukes in the hands of madmen, which the middle east has a unusually large amount of. I however would like to take the power away from these madmen by not having the need to purchase their oil. Just about every country we get oil from, I have issues with. And that includes our South American neighbors. If every American resisted the temptation to purchase a gas guzzling SUV, and really pressured the American car companies (we do not have to coax our Japanese friends at all) to put their R&D (along with our governments help) into alternative fueled cars, we could regain control of our foreign policy that has been hyjacked by our own arrogance and selfishness. The average American would rather spend money at Walmart than to engage in control of our government. That is a sad testimony to where we are as a nation.