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natlus
04-09-2006, 02:53 PM
I'm helping a family/friends to upgrade their system: here are the needs/limits/questions. I've checked out threads here and also the Audioholics.com site for their recommendations. Thanks in advance.....

-Budget should include speakers, receiver, CD/DVD player. Home theater compatibility a plus but not necessary. Listening tastes run towards older pop and rock, jazz, very little classical, audiophile ears that prefer a warmer and LP oriented sound.

-Speakers must be bookshelf or possibly wall mount, no room for floorstanding. If a subwoofer, it would have to be placed within a wooden enclosure(a window seat)--my sense this is a no, no, but am curious to hear about placement suggestions.

-Aesthetically I would prefer a two speaker set up, though am open to suggestions. I don't know how large family city-dwellers cope with muli-speaker set ups.

Thanks again and hope that I've offered enough clarification to my questions, because I know these threads can sometimes be frustratingly vague.

teledynepost
04-09-2006, 03:56 PM
Pretty good but I would still ask room dimensions, TV size?

Jimmy C
04-09-2006, 03:56 PM
I'm helping a family/friends to upgrade their system: here are the needs/limits/questions. I've checked out threads here and also the Audioholics.com site for their recommendations. Thanks in advance.....

-Budget should include speakers, receiver, CD/DVD player. Home theater compatibility a plus but not necessary. Listening tastes run towards older pop and rock, jazz, very little classical, audiophile ears that prefer a warmer and LP oriented sound.

-Speakers must be bookshelf or possibly wall mount, no room for floorstanding. If a subwoofer, it would have to be placed within a wooden enclosure(a window seat)--my sense this is a no, no, but am curious to hear about placement suggestions.

-Aesthetically I would prefer a two speaker set up, though am open to suggestions. I don't know how large family city-dwellers cope with muli-speaker set ups.

Thanks again and hope that I've offered enough clarification to my questions, because I know these threads can sometimes be frustratingly vague.

...let's have a bit of fun...

Check out some used N.A.D. or Rotel power (integrated) or, blow the budget by half, buy new. Get used...

Speakers? Perfect situation for the BR1... no sub really needed unless you're a bass hound.

CD or DVD player? Get a cheap Sony... IMO, it will take a LOT of money to better it considerably. I hate to admit it, but that has been my experience.

At this point, we have some money left over...lol... maybe a sub (used) from Paradigm.

Jimmy thinks that would make for a pretty good music maker...

markw
04-09-2006, 04:17 PM
Do you want a multi-channel receiver that can handle DD/DTS and the plethora of DSP features for the future HT implementation?

...or do you want a two channel amp/receiver? These, too, can play the stereo output of a DVD player.

Feature wise, you get more features with a HT receiver but they are useless in a two channel system. Sound wise, you get more with two channel units.

natlus
04-09-2006, 05:37 PM
This is why I love this site! Ok, in response to the previous replies:

-Room is aprox. 11x18', high (9+) city apartment ceilings. Lots of furniture, wood floors with little carpet. Currently they have a pair of baby Advents sitting on top bookcases aprox. 14" below the ceiling.

-Shows what I know about home theatre; what is DD/DTS and DSP? As for home theater, I mean anything that hook into the TV and DVD/CD player! In terms of a two channel system, my sense is this a low-tech family that will become more high tech. as their daughters grow into computer savvy teenagers(about 7 yrs. away). Tough call. It helps to know that sound quality is better with two channel amp/receiver.

-BR1 is what speaker manufacturer (Paradigm?)?

-As for size requirements, the total space restriction for both stereo equipment and television is: 41 and 1/8" (W) x 17" (D) x 22" (H)-aprox.. They're going to need a new TV as well, which is currently aprox. 15" wide, but not included in budget restriction--any recommendations for that too?

In anticipation,

Natlus

Jimmy C
04-10-2006, 03:15 PM
This is why I love this site! Ok, in response to the previous replies:

-Room is aprox. 11x18', high (9+) city apartment ceilings. Lots of furniture, wood floors with little carpet. Currently they have a pair of baby Advents sitting on top bookcases aprox. 14" below the ceiling.

-Shows what I know about home theatre; what is DD/DTS and DSP? As for home theater, I mean anything that hook into the TV and DVD/CD player! In terms of a two channel system, my sense is this a low-tech family that will become more high tech. as their daughters grow into computer savvy teenagers(about 7 yrs. away). Tough call. It helps to know that sound quality is better with two channel amp/receiver.

-BR1 is what speaker manufacturer (Paradigm?)?

-As for size requirements, the total space restriction for both stereo equipment and television is: 41 and 1/8" (W) x 17" (D) x 22" (H)-aprox.. They're going to need a new TV as well, which is currently aprox. 15" wide, but not included in budget restriction--any recommendations for that too?

In anticipation,

Natlus

...the BR1 is a kit that you assemble from PartsExpress.com. If you can use a soldering iron, she's pretty easy.

I feel it's a very satisfying speaker for a silly small amount of money. Not without problems, but the sonic virtues w-a-y outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Just an idea!

Vardo
04-10-2006, 03:45 PM
Check on the BR-1S from partsexpress.com. (do a quick search,
type in BR1 on their wed site. S is for shielded. $149 a pair +
shipping. I haven't heard these but many people have
recommended them. 30 day money back garantee.

You also might want to check out HSU Ventriloguist VT-12, which
consists of six mini speakers (left, right, surround(s) and a larger
center speaker (which would sit on top or below your TV set).
This would cost $299, and if you want a sub woofer try their
STF-1 8" sub for $199. I have heard this setup at HSU (in Aneheim
so cal) and was pretty impressed. (hsuresearch.com)

A good receiver is a Onkyo TX-SR503, which I bought from Fry's
(Canogo Park, so cal). I bought this for my second home theater,
cost was about $300.00.
Just about any receiver in this price range sounds somewhat similar,
so take a look at Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer etc.
The speaker recommendation (from HSU) and the receiver
recommendation(s) are for Dolby Digital (5.1), DTS, Dolby
Pro Logic IIx, in other words for home theater, if you want to
go that route.......good luck, happy hunting, etc, and hope
this post helps.......vardo

As for the the definition of DD (Dolby Digital), DTS (Dolby Theather
Surround) go to dolby.com and dts.com for explanations.

jocko_nc
04-10-2006, 04:05 PM
I have a pair of BR-1's that I built a couple of years ago. The money they ask for these things is a joke. $139.00 shipped? ???. Unbelievable. The thing is, they sound quite good! I recently DIY'd an upgrade bookshelf with better drivers and better crossover parts. Guess what, they sound a lot better. As a kit, they would have been more like $350.00 a pair. Both are bargains. The BR-1 is a no-brainer.

jocko

dean_martin
04-10-2006, 06:12 PM
Here's the main issue I see - speaker placement. Most bookshelf speakers perform best on stands positioned about a foot or so away from the back wall. However, there are a couple types of speakers that will work well on a shelf, or against or closer to wall or mounted on the wall.

The 2 main designs for box speakers are acoustic suspension and bass reflex. Bass reflex is more common these days. Bass reflex employs a port (a hole) and most ports are on the back of the speaker. Placing the port too close to a wall can cause all kinds of problems with bass output. However, some bass reflex speakers have front ports like the Polk RTi4 and RTi 6. Both of these speakers can be wall mounted. My son has a pair of older RTi series Polks with a Cambridge Audio Azur 540A integrated amp. It's a good combo. You can get the first generation 540A at www.spearitsound.com for $299. The Polk RTi4 and larger RTi6 are $260 and $380 respectively at www.crutchfield.com. You may be able to beat their prices.

Back to speaker design. The acoustic suspension design has a sealed enclosure. I have a pair of NHT SuperOnes that use this design. I have them placed in an entertainment center cabinet. They perform very well in this less than optimum space. NHT has a newer series of sealed speakers -SB- but I'm not sure of their pricing. I also have a pair of SuperOnes in my bedroom that I'm thinking about wall-mounting to please the wife. They're matched with an NAD integrated amp and an older generation Cambirdge Audio cd player. This system is perfect for those poorly recorded and early to mid 80s cds - it's warm and full.

Here's an option:
Cambridge Audio Azur 540A (version 1 while supplies last) - $300

Polk RTi6 (a little more bass than the RTi4) - $380

$100 dvd/cd player from the likes of Sony, Toshiba, Pioneer, Panasonic, etc. - you'll have to spend some time comparing these to find the one with the smoothest dac. There may be no difference at all, but hopefully you can find one that's not "bright" and fatiguing in the treble.

Used tuner off eBay or at local pawn shop/thrift store/flea market. I like the Yamahas myself. There's no need to spend more than $70 on a used tuner.

That leaves you with about $150. You might add this to the $100 for the dvd/cd player and see if you can move up to something like a Marantz dvd/cd player. They're supposed to have a smooth sound, but I haven't heard one in a few years.

natlus
04-10-2006, 06:23 PM
This is all fascinating and an education to boot.

No one has mentioned the Paradigm Atoms--speakers recommended by a guy from MNBC(?), though it was for a completely different kind of system, with Antique Sound Lab Wave AV-8 monoblocks, etc.. Would they(the Atoms) match well with an AV receiver as mentioned?

The BR-1's I think are going to be a pet project for myself.

As for speaker placement, the previous reply makes alot of sense and they will probably have to make some changes in their bookshelves to accomodate speakers.

Finally, since their equipment will be mostly close to their TV, does it have to be shielded in any way, as with speakers?

Natlus

jocko_nc
04-10-2006, 07:56 PM
You do have to watch the placement of the BR-1's. They are rear ported and do produce a lot of bass reinforcement. To me, they can be boomy. I may "doublestuff" mine and see what happens. If I were to build a set, I would build as recommended and further stuff them with polyfill. That is just me, the speakers are my kid's.

On the other hand, my boy just inherited a pair of refurbished Vandersteen 2Ce's. I guess he upgraded.

jocko

bobsticks
04-11-2006, 05:41 AM
IMO dean_martin is giving you good advice for the set-up of a quality system that will meet your standards and function within a less than optimal situation.
Food for thought regarding the ASLs, given that your daughters will be approaching their teens in seven years, then you presumably have some four-six yesr olds running around. Tubes get very, very hot and a general rule of thumb is that tubes and little hands don't go together.
The Cambridge Audio would alow you to listen to strong two-channel performance and potentially act as augmentation to a later surround system.

natlus
04-11-2006, 03:02 PM
[QUOTE=dean_martin]
Back to speaker design. The acoustic suspension design has a sealed enclosure. I have a pair of NHT SuperOnes that use this design. I have them placed in an entertainment center cabinet. They perform very well in this less than optimum space. NHT has a newer series of sealed speakers -SB- but I'm not sure of their pricing. I also have a pair of SuperOnes in my bedroom that I'm thinking about wall-mounting to please the wife. They're matched with an NAD integrated amp and an older generation Cambirdge Audio cd player. This system is perfect for those poorly recorded and early to mid 80s cds - it's warm and full.

This makes a lot of sense(In my home system I have a pair of front port Wharfedale Saphires paired with a NAD 7240 receiver, and they sound similarly wonderful sitting in a bookshelf system). My question then is what might be the limitations of setting a subwoofer within a sealed cabinet(under a window seat)?

My guess is that a front firing sub would be necessary but would port placement be an issue?

Thanks in advance.

superpanavision70mm
04-22-2006, 12:56 AM
My recommendation is slightly different that most, but hopefully would work for this person. I shop around alot on Ebay, which is where I picked up my 2 channel Parasound HALO A23 amp, which is a great warm amp for about $500. I would add to that the PSB Image B25's (around $300). They are a great smaller speaker, which will need stands. If you choose not to go with PSB you could pick up some Polk Monitors for about this price too. The remainder of your cash I would invest in a SACD/CD/DVD player from Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, etc. The great thing about the Polk Monitors is that you can bi-wire them for great bass/treble separation. You may want to check out dmc electroncs or spearit sound for good deals too. I would also recommend hmc audio for cables and that should really make for an amazing, yet inexpensive system. I have heard decent reviews on Fluance speakers as well, which I would look into if you are doing the 5.1 setup because you can get the whole package for $500 from them and they are a great bang for the buck.

Feanor
04-22-2006, 03:54 AM
..>
No one has mentioned the Paradigm Atoms--speakers recommended by a guy from MNBC(?), though it was for a completely different kind of system, with Antique Sound Lab Wave AV-8 monoblocks, etc.. Would they(the Atoms) match well with an AV receiver as mentioned?
...
Natlus

Yes, the Atoms are excellent small speakers. They will work well in an AV setup with one word of caution: last I check they weren't magnetly shielded, which means they cannot be placed too close to a CRT-type televison. Each speaker needs to be 1.5 - 2 feet from a tube TV.