3 Choices need to pick one

[PlatinumD]

OK been at this for 3 weeks now. Here are my choices.

Budget $10K for speakers and reciever

- Paradigm Studio 100's
with Servo-15 sub

or

- M & K S-150THX Ultra
with MX-150 MK sub

or

- Definitive Technology BP7000sc
With def tec sub

My useage is going to be 65-35 home theatre over music.

M&K - home threatre 10 out of 10 music 7 out of 10
When listening to these speakers on a Denon 580 I found the M&K to be the best for home theatre but average for Music playing.

Def tech - music 10 out of 10 home theatre 8 out of 10
I found the Def Tech to be the best for music listening but (with built in Subs 15", they lacked home theatre quality by a bit over M&K)

Paradigm Home theatre 8 out of 10 music 8 out of 10
When listening to these I'd say they are above average in both areas.

Choice is difficult. I am LEANING ever so slightly towards the M&K speakers but this is not a decision I can make today.

So help, thoughts, suggestions.

Please lets try to keep it to these speakers.

thanks for the imput

[markw]

That's kinda like me asking which I prefer.. blonds, brunettes or redheads. IT'sa personal decision.

No speaker is perfect. You have to make a decision as to which strengths and weaknesses you can live with.

[bturk667]

Here is one suggestion: With your budget, scrap the reciever and go with seperates. A seperate digital preamp and five channel amp. Try Arcam or even Aragon, trust me, you're better off!

As for what I would suggest from what you listed from above, how in the hell would I know, I don't have your ears!

[ryewoods]

Here is one suggestion: With your budget, scrap the reciever and go with seperates. A seperate digital preamp and five channel amp. Try Arcam or even Aragon, trust me, you're better off!



I agree, seperates are the way to go. You could also step up in class in terms of speakers also.

[manek]

You have agenerous budget....go for the good stuff....

Going for separates is a very good idea.

Split your budget. put 10% of your budget into cabling.
Split the other 90% into 30% speakers, 20% into the source and 40% into amplification. then buy the best in each price range.

manek.

[This Guy]

This hasen't even been proved that it makes a difference in quality of your system! You could easily get by with around $50 worth (including all video, audio, and speaker cables)and it will perform flawlessly. Put the rest of that money towards speakers.

-Joey

[topspeed]

I've got to agree that separates are most definitely the way to go. I don't care what speaker you've got hooked up to a receiver (ANY reciever save the Denon 5803, and that's debateable), you're not hearing the full potential of the speaker. It's like test driving a Ferrari but only in first gear. When I inserted a separate amp back into my system, the difference was truly profound. Remember, garbage in=garbage out.

You need to look at the big picture here. System synergy is paramount. Before you choose, make sure you listen to various speakers with quality amps driving them. Match the qualities of the speakers with specific amps (i.e. taming bright speakers with warmer sounding electronics, etc.) Cary, which is reknown for their tube amps, makes a SS 5 channel for only $3k and it'll smoke any receiver's amps. A friend just picked up a SS 5 channel Conrad-Johnson at 120wpc NIB for $2k off of e-bay!

You're spending 10 large of your hard earned bank so take the time, do it right, and enjoy the process. This is supposed to be fun, remember?

[markw]

This hasen't even been proved that it makes a difference in quality of your system! You could easily get by with around $50 worth (including all video, audio, and speaker cables)and it will perform flawlessly. Put the rest of that money towards speakers.

-Joey

A grand is more than a little excessive for cables. Don't get too up on that old "10% rule". Decent cable is decent cable and it doesn't cost a fortune if sound is your main concern here. The point of diminishing returns is much, much lower than many want to believe.

While $50 seems a little low when considering interconnects and speaker cables, $1000 is way over the top.

[PlatinumD]

I've been to one of the stores and the sales person told me the same thing that many people told me in this thread.

Buy seperate amp not just one receiver Denon 5800

Anthem Amp MCA 2 - $4500 CND

Pre Amp AVM 20 - $2800 CND

I am having fun, but its been 3 weeks now and its taking alot of my weekends and week nights up.

I want to get this baby in my house and listening to them,

[PlatinumD]

By the way everyone I am going to scrap the one recevier and go with seperates

whats your thoughts on Anthem?

[topspeed]

When I auditioned Anthem last year I thought they were very capable amps. They were on the warmer side of neutral (reminded me of B&K)and if I remember right are distributed by Paradigm or connected to them in some way. For the money, I preferred Rotel (steller reputation) and in some aspects Odyssey. They were both a little more detailed imo. However, a good part of your decision will be based on what speakers you decide to match to the amp(s). That whole system synergy thing I mentioned before. In the end, it's really what sounds best to you for what you listen to. We can recommend products all day long but it's still your ears and your money and thus your decision.

Good luck and buy what moves you.

[chimera128]

In terms of the speakers that you are going to buy i would take into consideration the use that you will be putting the speakers. I personally like Definitive Technology, but I use my system mostly for Home Theatre. The system I have is as follows:

Denon AVR-3803 (the "weak link") that I will transfer to bedroom usage after I get separates
2 Definitive Technology BP7000SCs
2 Definitive Technology BP10s
1 Definitive Technology C/L/R 3000
1 RGPC 400MK II
Total Cost about $7000. You can get Definitive Technology speakers for around 20 percent off. You don't really need a separate sub with the BP7000SCs, unless 3600 watts of power and a frequency response of 11hz isn't powerful/low enough for you. This will give you enough money to buy separates if you really want. Definitive products take a while to break in as well, so keep that in mind when you listen to them at a retailer. In terms of speaker wire, I would spend the $1000 on a good power conditioner first. You can get a RGPC 400MK II for $779. It only has 4 outlets but the amplifiers can be plugged into the wall and receive the benefits of the power conditioner (it works in parallel with the ac lines).

Hope this helps



OK been at this for 3 weeks now. Here are my choices.

Budget $10K for speakers and reciever

- Paradigm Studio 100's
with Servo-15 sub

or

- M & K S-150THX Ultra
with MX-150 MK sub

or

- Definitive Technology BP7000sc
With def tec sub

My useage is going to be 65-35 home theatre over music.

M&K - home threatre 10 out of 10 music 7 out of 10
When listening to these speakers on a Denon 580 I found the M&K to be the best for home theatre but average for Music playing.

Def tech - music 10 out of 10 home theatre 8 out of 10
I found the Def Tech to be the best for music listening but (with built in Subs 15", they lacked home theatre quality by a bit over M&K)

Paradigm Home theatre 8 out of 10 music 8 out of 10
When listening to these I'd say they are above average in both areas.

Choice is difficult. I am LEANING ever so slightly towards the M&K speakers but this is not a decision I can make today.

So help, thoughts, suggestions.

Please lets try to keep it to these speakers.

thanks for the imput

[dotcom]

There is no need to spend a fortune on cables. Check out www.signalcable.com for Wal-Mart prices on very good (no name) cables. For power amps Bryston can not be beat - value for money & a 20 year warranty to boot. Now the DTS decoder is a little more difficult - although a lot of newer DVD players have 5.1 channel discreet outputs. Lots on here use B&W speakers - well worth a look I would think. for a 10 grand budget you will have an awesome system.

[gonefishin]

By the way everyone I am going to scrap the one recevier and go with seperates

whats your thoughts on Anthem?


Well, If your serious. All these things are relative to what each person is comparing them to.

The Anthem, while decent, is just that...decent....ok...not bad.

How much room do you have?

what's your room shaped like?


what else is in your room?



For speakers...I would either spend a little more money and get the EdgarHorn TiTan system (with horn sub) or get the EdgarHorn SINGNATURE slimeline speakers. I capatolize the signature...because the regular slimlines are not nearly the same speaker. You would want the slimline signatures.

An easy choice, without getting into your preferences too much...just a safe choice for an amplifier to match the speakers would be a Cy Brennamen amp...and you can also go with an APL (Alex Peychev) modded Pioneer 563a cdplayer.


So, to wrap things up...the EdgarHorn Slimeline signatures, An APL (Alex Peychev) modded Pioneer 563a cdplayer and a Cy Breneman amp...and any wire to get you by...you can upgrade in the near future.


ok...just re-read your post...for HT...and music...I would then say four sEdgarHorn Slimline signatures and one of his tiTan horn subs (of mdf)...run a phantom center. There are certainly other choices out there too. Before buying one of the three you've mentioned...I would go out...listen...and verify that those are the choices for you.


Please try to listen to as many components before you make your choice.



have fun!!!!!!

[N. Abstentia]

Anthem seperates are very nice, and will mate well with Paradigm's Studio speakers. If music is your main goal, the Paradigms would be the choice.

[magictooth]

I am having fun, but its been 3 weeks now and its taking alot of my weekends and week nights up.
I want to get this baby in my house and listening to them,
Better to do your homework now and get the good/right stuff in your home rather than drop $10K on crap that you'll be disappointed in and want to sell for a loss.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go out to some mid and hi fi stores and check out some of their listening rooms. Speakers should be your first concern with suitable amplification to match the speakers another prime consideration. As with others on this site, I believe that cabling is a minor issue at best. Get some decent stuff, but spending 10% of your ample budget is going a bit overboard for the small amount of <i>possible</i>improvement.

My personal HT consists of an Onkyo Integra DTR 8.2 for preamp/surround amplification, Audio Refinement Multi-5 for front (Biamped)/center amplification, and Integra Research RDV-1 for CD/DVD playback. I've got Tannoy speakers in for all 5 speakers and I've got a custom Adire Tempest sub. The only thing that I'd change is to get a separate preamp that doesn't have all the fancy DSPs that seem to come with your average receiver.

I see that Paradigm is at the top of your speaker list, and while I don't want to incite flames from a bunch of people reading this site, please do yourself a huge favour and go and listen to some other brands of speakers such as B&W, Dynaudio, Magnepan, Audio Note and a whole host of others. You'll be surprised at how different they all are, and the only person who is qualified to say which speakers are best for you is <b>YOU</b>.

[Woochifer]

First off, I think you haven't really set your overall system goals yet. Are you budgeting $10k for the receiver and TWO speaker plus the subwoofer, or for a 5.1 setup, or for a "7.1" setup? That answer alone would go a long way towards figuring out a recommendation for you.

If your full budget is just for a two-channel starter system, then I would go along with the recommendation for multichannel separates. Those give you great system flexibility and a notable step up in sound quality over most receivers. Then you can add the center, surround, and back surround speakers later on as budget allows. I've had some very impressive demos with Parasound, Anthem, and Classe multichannel pre/pro components.

If your budget is for a five speaker setup, then the budget gets a little bit dicier. Typically, you need to budget at least $4k for the lower level multichannel separates.

However, equally important as the speakers, I would also recommend that you budget for some kind of acoustic treatment for your room. Most small to medium sized rooms have acoustical problems, especially in the lower frequencies. It doesn't matter one bit how great your speakers and components are if your room has crappy acoustics. In a bad acoustical environment, ANY system, no matter how great or state-of-the-art it is, will sound bad. With some of your budget, you should invest it in some RTA software or have a professional installer come out to your room and do some measurements. That measurement will identify the problematic frequencies and allow you to determine the degree to which you need to treat the room (acoustic paneling, corner traps, diffusers, acoustic foam, or simpler things like carpeting, cushier furniture, etc.).

Newer receivers like the Yamaha RX-Z9, RX-V1400 and 2400, and the Denon AVR-3805 now include parametric room calibration that partly addresses issues with room acoustics, but even those very useful room calibration features cannot address time domain problems (i.e. echoes, reverb, etc.) created by your room's acoustics. A very simple test to see if your room will present a problem is to clap your hands together and listen for any "slap echo." If you can hear that echo, then fixing the acoustics needs to take priority, and the only way to do that is to treat the room. Getting your room acoustics right will make a far greater difference than cables, amplification, front end sources, and in some cases, even the speakers themselves can.

Another recommendation that I would make is to get a parametric equalizer for your subwoofer. Again, this addresses potential problems with your room acoustics. With corner bass traps, you can minimize the biggest problems. The parametric equalizer allows you to fine tune the bass so that it's more even. In my room for example, I had a +14 db peak at 88 Hz, and another +10 peak at 32 Hz, which made the bass from the subwoofer unbearably boomy; a parametric equalizer dialed those peaks down and allowed me to more accurately set the levels. End result: full and even sounding bass that integrates very well with the mains. IMO, a well tuned subwoofer will outperform a much more expensive untuned subwoofer just about every time.

With your budget, it would be a shame to bring everything home only to have it all ruined by bad room acoustics.

[RGA]

You don't need to really say 65/35 Home theater/ Music. A GREAT set of speakers will do BOTH equally well...that is not true of a speaker that can do Home Theater well.

I have not heard the Def Tech but it seems to me that has your highest rating overall. M&K is an underrated brand.

As for receivers - well with your budget you might be able to avoid one and do as the others have suggested by purchasing a preamp/processor and a 5,6, or 7 channel amp -- or three 2 channel amps etc.

Also, is this just two speakers and a sub? Or was that 3 pairs of speakers. If home theater is something really really serious then be serious and get the EXACT same speaker all the way around - the timbre matched horizontal speakers may timbre match but there's much more to the ballgame than that...the marketing departments won't tell you that perhaps.

If you have a television that doesn't allow it so be it but do try to get one that DOES allow it - front projector, Some wall hanging video(Plasma whatever).

After listening to the 100 surround package with Anthem amp It's money in my opinion well wasted. Big screen tv with the center on top just work - it dodn't work for the Energy Veritas nor the Totem speakers nor B&W. The center channel is a compromise even when they're supposedly matched. Well I would carefully listen if I were you. Even if you have to go down a model in the speaker line like say three 60s versus 2 100s would probably be well worth it.

I assume that serious home theater manufacturers will sell you single speakers. So you could buy 3 M&K Model ____s. And the same 2 in the back.

Audio Note sells them individually and they don't even pay lip service to home thater so I am presuming all the manufacturers you list do as well.

The top receivers from pretty much anyone is going to be pretty good. You can certainly do better maybe even for less and you will have more options when upgrading. For instance if you could swing some used Bryston 3B amps ~$1100.00CDN used with balance of 20 year warranty say >12years left on an 8 year old one that brings you to $3300.00CDN. The 3805 here goes for around $6000.00. You can find a superior processor/preamp (especially the latter) for less than the difference. Besides, it all depends...is the 35% music important to be good or background music. Some speakers aren't good enough to notice the difference either.

UHF's issue number 69 newly out might help you on this as well.

[topspeed]

I'm pretty sure PlatinumD either made up his mind or is long gone by now.

[magictooth]

I'm pretty sure PlatinumD either made up his mind or is long gone by now.
LOL!! Thanks, tops, we'd probably still be bloviating about what to get if you hadn't pointed that out.

[92135011]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thats the funniest thing ever!

good times good times