Help me choose new pair of high end speakers

[daigoro]

After continually trying to upgrade my HT system, I've decided to divide and conquer and keep my HT the way it is and make a dedicated 2-channel music setup.

The only component I have right now is a very nice HarmonKardon/Citation amp with is either 400wpc or 250wpc bi-amped. My room is not that big, so I know the amp is overkill, but I plan to keep it.

Eventually I will get a pre-amp and a good CD player.

But first I have to decide the speakers. I figure my budget is between $1500-$3000 for the pair. I am open to direct manufacturer, used, or local dealers.

The only thing I am ruling out is electrostatic speakers since I have cats that would view them as very large scratching posts.

Slamming bass is not that important to me since I am in a condo anyway and would rather not have overly large speakers anyway. But the bass should be decent without a sub. I want nice breathy vocals, open soundstage, and zero fatigue. Probably best to avoid metal dome tweeters.

Thanks much for your help.

[Jetsons]

Hi, diagoro:

Your criteria for speakers is nearly identical to mine. I have an apt. where using a sub was not an option. There are some outstanding monitors which you might check into that IMO, fit your requirements.

Silverline Audiuo SR-17. $2.5K retail. Used, $1.5K.

Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE. $3.5K retail. Used, $1.9K.

Sonus Faber Signum. Unfortunately discontinued. Used, $1.5K.

Dynaudio Special 25. Retail, $5.5K. Used, $3.3K.

BTW, I also have the Citation 7.1 amp and been using it for 2.5 years. This is an excellent amp IMO and built like a tank. I use it to power the Dyn 1.3SEs and it's a terrific match in my view. There is absolutely no need to bridge the 7.1 in my room which is 14'X27'X8'.

For the preamp, do not overlook the matching Citation 7.0 which has an excellent analog output stage and a perfect match for the 7.1. You can perform a search at avsforum.com and audiogon.com and get input from folks responsible for its design and owners. These can be found at Audiogon in the $500.00-$600.00 range.

Jet

[Jimmy C]

... you might want to check out the Ref 3A de Capo, or, for a sweeter sound yet, the Vienna line of speakers. The 3As are probably bigger, ballsier (sounding, that is) and more realistic, while the Viennas a bit more sugar-coated.

I was going to suggest Vandersteens, but the cats might see the cloth sock as a scratching post also. BUT - these can be quite smooth and involving with good bass response.

Alons are really sweet-sounding also, but not too many dealers.

Just a few ideas that meet your criteria!

[TinHere]

Check out the Reference by Onix line. Thierry Comte, of Triangle Loudspeaker contributed to the design and they are reported to be excellent value comparing very well to speakers that cost more. They have bookshelves [$1500] and floorstanders [$2500] and come in Birdseye Maple and Piano Black Laquer. They can only be bought on line. You can try audioenvy.com to see if someone in your area is offering auditions, or try at AV123.com where they are sold. Better yet try them in your home with your gear. Worst case is you're out the shipping costs, but that seldom happens. Of course, shipping is less for the bookshelves which, it is reported, project a large soundstage and surprising bass extention and may do the trick in your room. Happy hunting.

Here's a link:
http://www.av123.com/products_category.php?section=speakers

[RGA]

So far you have some good suggestions and I can certainly add some. However, I think it's more important for you to go out and listen and keep an open mind to as many speakers as possible.

I have spent four years listening to numerous speakers, many from the companies already listed and ended up going the Audio Note route...a no-name speaker to me at the time, largely because they are out of most people's price ranges.

Don't be swayed by reviews, me, or anyone else when it comes to personal preference. I tend to have a simiar ear in that I don't like bright treble response or fatiguing speakers...Ie; I want accurate treble response not etchy fake detail.

The De Capo is excellent here - I'll recommend my own speakers.

If you are in an apartment like me the AN K is beneficial as it is best suited about 5 inches from a wall, is best suited for a corner(reaching 36hz) though against a wall not in corner is where i have them you just lose a bit of bass(rated to 50hz), is a standmount - higher than your cats, and is very easy to drive without dipping under 5ohms. They retail for $1950.00US.

You can buy their bigger AN E/D standmount that has done very well in the blind listening sessions at Hi-Fi Choice and was a Stereophile reference tool. It's under 3k and will reach 12hz. Pretty incredible for a standmount. Positioning is critical as the speakers use your walls more so than any other speaker I have owned. Response is pretty flat +/-2db well out into the room on music program.(you can find more about those issues on www.audioasylum.com .

I like their sound simply because their is a total cohesiveness from the bass driver to the tweeter. The owner of the company has arguably the biggest LP collection on the planet at over 30,000 and I have not heard another speaker be able to both classical music and amplified music in this price range nearly as well. Go listen. If you like them, you can get last years model at soundhounds for $1500.00CDN(AN K SPe). The wood finishes are less exciting but nice. Build is very good with all silver wiring.

Again listen to as many speakers as you can. What I like does not mean you will. For instance if you listen to no classical you may want more of a rocker...though dynamically speaking I have not run into a better standmount than the AN K except the AN E. Speakers look much better in person. Speakers range in price from $1950.00 to $30,000.00. http://www.audionote.co.uk/

Speaker hunting is the most fun...take time.

[Geoffcin]

I agree with your conclusion that HT and Audio is best kept separate. I'm kind of perplexed about your "fear of cats". We've got two here, and the've never taken to clawing my speakers. The've got their scatching post, and it keeps them happy.

From what your describing is your preference, "I want nice breathy vocals, open soundstage, and zero fatigue" and your situation in a condo, it's my firm belief that a set of Magnepans would be excellent. No other speaker I know of can load a room with sound so well, yet not disturb your neighbors. As silly as it sounds, 5' tall speakers can take up less real estate than some standmounts. Before you make your decision audition a set of maggie 1.6qr's. You might forget about the cats!

[daigoro]

[QUOTE=Geoffcin]I agree with your conclusion that HT and Audio is best kept separate. I'm kind of perplexed about your "fear of cats". We've got two here, and the've never taken to clawing my speakers. The've got their scatching post, and it keeps them happy.

Clearly you have normal cats. One of my 2 cats has great capacity for destruction. This 10 pound cat knocked my 25 pound center channel speaker off my TV and put a big wedge shaped dent in the wall behind my TV. He has also managed to pull my screen door off and has laid waste to the screens on my Paradigm Studio 100's in addition to his much used scratching post. He's got a head like a softball and the jaws of a lion.

Otherwise the Maggies would be on my list. I have heard them and they are very nice with a good sub.

[daigoro]

After reading your posts I checked out a local dealer of used hi-fi. As luck would have it, he has a Citation 7.0 preamp for $450 and a demo model of the Ref3A de CAppo MMi available. Can't wait to give it an audition. Also he has a used Swan D3.1 for a sweet price which I will check out.

Frankly, I am surprised to NOT hear anyone suggest ACI, Norh, or Swan. Last time I used to haunt this site they were all the rage. Does the emperor have no clothes or did their fans just not read my thread?

Those Onyx speakers certainly are beautiful. I'll have to do some more research on those.

Again, thanks much

[TinHere]

Frankly, I am surprised to NOT hear anyone suggest ACI, Norh, or Swan. Last time I used to haunt this site they were all the rage. Does the emperor have no clothes or did their fans just not read my thread?

Those Onyx speakers certainly are beautiful. I'll have to do some more research on those.

Again, thanks much

I used to have the Diva's by Swan which were then distributed by AV123. Before Mark Shifter, the force behind AV123, introduced the Rocket by Onix line I was given the opportunity to sorta-beta-test the 750's. I was about to upgrade my 5.1 Diva's to 6.1's when Mark called and asked if I would be interested in the 750's instead. Mark was aware that I was one of the first to get the Diva's and was an early supporter back in the time you referenced [no pun intended]. To make a long story short many of the people who had the Diva's are now Rocket and/or Reference owners, based the quality of the speakers and the exceptional customer service. I'll say it again, Mark, the president of the company actually called me and made the gracious offer. Mine is only one story of the incredible and documented extent that AV123 goes to to please a customer. He's even gone to customer's homes on occasion to help them set up. Do a google search on Mark Schifter. He was partner in Genesis Technologies, Audio Alchemy, and now besides speakers, Mark is also almost ready to realease SOCS [Speaker Only Correction Software} to compliment his Perpetual Technologies product, and RCS [Room Correction Software] might be ready in 2004. The man knows what sounds good and how to achieve it.

ACI and nOrh still have their supporters, but most have moved on to other forums, and hopefully will return sometime now that the flamers and trolls can be controllled with the new format. VMPS is another on line only company that might be worth a look if you like ribbons.

Do your research, and listen to what you can. What you find about the products that AV123 offers may lead you to become another owner enjoying having their expectations exceeded. For the record about the people who open their homes for auditions, THEY ARE NOT PAID OR COMPENSATED by AV123, but do it to share what has made them happy. I reccomend them as often as I do because I'm one delighted customer who enjoys hearing how pleased others are with them.

[RichardNC]

...I have been listening/comparing speakers for decades. My original Ohm Walsh 2's are now my rear speakers, and I have the Ohm Walsh 5's (appx $4500) as the fronts. The sound is amazing. Full highs and lows in all directions - no sweet spot. The guy who worked on the Walsh design, Lincoln Walsh, was on the team that invented radar - pretty cool!

Before you finalize check out OhmSpeakers.com. You can find something great in your price range - AND you can try them for free! No I am not a salesman, just a very satisfied customer...

Richard