Do DVD Players & Receiver From Same Company Sound the Best Together

[EdwardGein]

I'm curious about anyones thoughts on this. Specifically, are DVD and/or Universal players put out by a company designed to sound best on that companys products not someone elses. For example is the Denon 1910 DVD player going to sound best when played with a Denon receiver or something like the Harmon Kardon AVR 635 receiver going to sound its best when played with say a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player? I'm almost tempted to "'rent" both the Denon 1910 player to try with my receiver & the 635 to try with my DVD player to see if they'll sound noticeably better & if I'm totally knocked out,, buy them cheaper online after I returned them to the stores I "rented" them from.

[musicman1999]

ed

quick answer,no.The only time i can think that this could come into play is when the reciever has firewire connection that only works with its dvd.I believe and correct me if i'm wrong but denon does this.Other wise cant see it being an issue.
Buy the way you will find,as you progress in this hobby,you will find that"renting" gear ,then buying it on the net later,is not the best way to go.Find your self a dealer with a good reputation(and i don't mean best buy or the like)and get to know them.You will be suprised at the benefit of paying a few dollars more at purchase.In the past two years I have replaced every component in my system,from television to speakers to wires.All from the same dealer.I get in house service,delivery and calibration of the tv,loaners if service is in shop,in house trial of gear and wires and lots of good advice.I have sent them at least a dozen people since and some made large purchases.If people are buying with no intention of purchase then they wont be able to offer this level of service to loyal customers.
thanks
bill

[N. Abstentia]

Definitely NOT. In fact, I would rather buy pieces from seperate companies rather than stick with one company that makes mediocre stuff across the board just to be brand loyal.

And the thing you must realize is that very few companies actually make their own stuff. In fact many Denon players (no, not all) are just Toshiba's with Denon stickers on them. So even though you have a Denon amp and Denon player, you technically don't.

I'm not sure who makes HK DVD players for them.

What part of your sound are you not happy with? Are you still using those Orb speakers? Perhaps you're looking at the wrong thing to upgrade?

[EdwardGein]

I'm not unhappy with anything but unlike some people, I'm always open to improving myself if I have the money to do so. In my case, if I play certain old cds they sound incredible on my set up while other sound like crap. I basically have a policy of not tryin g to reeq a bad recording

[shokhead]

Speakers are the best to upgrade as they will make the most difference. You have good stuff but the Orbs are on the small side. Cd's will just sound different no matter what. You cant make a bad recorded cd sound good. I've got some early ones that are not so hot. I only buy remastered/DTS/SACD older music.

[SlumpBuster]

if I play certain old cds they sound incredible on my set up while other sound like crap.

Congratulations! This is a good thing. It means you have a revealing system. Bad recordings are not something to be fixed by improving your system. Rather, bad recordings are simply to be avoided.

[Eric Z]

have you ever tried speakers other than your orbs? just wondering.

[EdwardGein]

I don't know why it seems a bunch of people here seem to be biased againnst Orb speakers especially if they've never heard them. Don't mind criticism of them or any other product if someone has experienced them first hand but to dismiss something without experiencing it, I think is a bit absurd. For me the Orbs are a must both logistically & quality & cosmetic wise given that I have somewhat limited spacing in an apartment. I personally hate clutter & 5 bookshelf or bigger speakers for me, doesn't appeal to me visually. Orbs give a great pokey sound without overbearing my apartment with noise to call the police. I'm sure there are better bookshelf or bigger speakers on the market but while I'm living in a 1200 foot apartment, the Orbs are best for my situation.

[topspeed]

No one is biased against Orb, Hershon, but you admittedly have experienced better sound when Paul allowed you to audition his B&W's. In your never ending quest for better sound, you have tried different cables, different cdp's, some sonic snot you slathered on the discs, and who knows what else? However, you always fail to address the single most limiting factor in any system; the speakers. Again, I'm not trashing your Orbs, just stating the obvious fact that better speakers will allow much more significant gains for your dollars.

[markw]

Seems like we just went through this with sonmeone else, no? Oh yeah, Hershon.

I guess once a troll, always a troll.

[topspeed]

In fact many Denon players (no, not all) are just Toshiba's with Denon stickers on them. So even though you have a Denon amp and Denon player, you technically don't.
I didn't know this. Do you have a link with the information? I know Marantz, Denon, and McIntosh are owned by the same holding company, but as far as I've read, they still operate independently. Toshiba has never been in the mix.

[N. Abstentia]

I've never seen a link, but I've seen it plenty of times on the repair bench! The few Denons I've cracked open were just Toshibas inside. They even have the same menu, screen saver, and turn on screens.

Now I'm not saying ALL Denons are Toshibas, and newer Denons might not be at all, but the ones I've seen were indeed Toshibas with Denon names on the outside. But on the other hand, I doubt a company like Denon would build DVD players from the ground up.

[N. Abstentia]

Well Google brought this up real quick, if usenet conversations are worth anything :)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home-theater.misc/browse_thread/thread/353c5996adcd44de/7cba7744e291e1c7?lnk=st&q=denon+toshiba+dvd&rnum=2#7cba7744e291e1c7

Looks like some Denon players were Panasonic as well.

[shokhead]

Is that offical or just joes like us talking?
Carful who you listen to.

[EdwardGein]

When I listened to Paul's B&W speakers some CD's like the Foo Fighters sounded better to me then my Orbs when listening on his system but other CD's sounded better to me when the Orbs were used, so that was a mixed bag (I don't remember if Paul shared that view as well). I've experienced improvements in sound when I upgraded my cables, added a Monster Power Center, upgraded my DVD player & upgraded my receiver to its present set up & also when I lowered the height of all my speakers to closer to ear level (they're all now uniformally at the same height as well). If I ever move to say a house or condo with a larger amount of space & no neighbors to deal with, of course I'll consider bookshelf or bigger speakers. At present though, the Orb speakers are the best speakers applicable to my situation & they're basically "Fixed" while everything is variable.

[LMB]

IF YOU NEED SMALL SPEAKERS TRY BOSTON ACOUSTICS 130's
YOUR RECEIVER WILL CALIBRATE THEM TO LARGE BECAUSE OF THE FREQUENCY AND SET SUB TO PLUS THEY SOUND GREAT

[thekid]

EdG

I think your post went in another direction from your original question. I have often wondered the same thing myself-do components from the same maker integrate better than those from different makes?

My experience is no. Components from the same manufacturer sometimes allow for more convience in terms of a universal remote etc but I would not say there is quality gain. N Abstenia is right in that not all manufacturers make their own components but sub them out to others so unless you really know the origin of the individual component there is a chance you are not accomplishing your goal.

[anamorphic96]

Ed,

If you want to improve things with your current Orb's. Get the Mod 2 center.(Far superior to the Mod 1 IMO) The center carries the majority of all the infomation in a soundtrack and, of the 5 speakers in a surround set up is by far the most imprtant. Voices will sound more natural and the added driver will give the front stage some added punch.

[shokhead]

IF YOU NEED SMALL SPEAKERS TRY BOSTON ACOUSTICS 130's
YOUR RECEIVER WILL CALIBRATE THEM TO LARGE BECAUSE OF THE FREQUENCY AND SET SUB TO PLUS THEY SOUND GREAT

You mean leave them on lg because thwey will play down to 25-30Hz@85-90db?

[LMB]

You will get some base out of the speaker they won't sound so tinny
Music will sound better anyway that is my experience with the Bostons

[EdwardGein]

Ed,

If you want to improve things with your current Orb's. Get the Mod 2 center.(Far superior to the Mod 1 IMO) The center carries the majority of all the infomation in a soundtrack and, of the 5 speakers in a surround set up is by far the most imprtant. Voices will sound more natural and the added driver will give the front stage some added punch.

Question for you if you own Orbs (I forgot). As an experiment since i have 2 sets of Mod 1 speakers for 2 rooms, I hooked the wire up 2 Orbs & listen to that as a center speaker. Is that the sound I will get out of a Mod 2 because it really didn't do anything for me when listening to CD's- I didn't adjust the DB level on them, should I have? Thanks

[musicman1999]

ed
why do you use your center speaker when listening to cd.

bill

[Woochifer]

And the thing you must realize is that very few companies actually make their own stuff. In fact many Denon players (no, not all) are just Toshiba's with Denon stickers on them. So even though you have a Denon amp and Denon player, you technically don't.

I know that a few years ago, the situation was that Denon's entry level DVD players were manufactured on a contract basis by Panasonic. But, it's definitely not as simple as Denon taking one of Panny's DVD players and slapping a new label on it. Even though those players used Panasonic transports and were manufactured by Panny, the internal specs did include a lot of modifications, such as the choice in DACs and processor units, that were custom spec'd by Denon. Denon did design and manufacture their own higher line DVD players in-house (including the transport) starting with the DVD-2800, but that unit was plagued by reliability issues with both the hardware and firmware. Not sure how they procure their current models.

In addition, most manufacturers assemble their DVD players from a wide range of suppliers. For example, only a handful of companies make DVD transports -- Toshiba, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, and some Chinese manufacturers -- while everybody has to purchase the video and audio processors from a third party. Some manufacturers might make more components in-house than others, but in all cases, DVD players are mostly an exercise in outsourcing.

[paul_pci]

Sorry I was outta town. If you're not going to change speakers, then there's really not anything left to improve, except for moving to separates (and high end components) which will cost at least $2k and the improvement may be lost on your speakers, but who knows until you try. Anything short of that will result in marginal changes that may not translate into "improvement."

[anamorphic96]

I do not own Orb's but have spent some time with them. It's not as easy as just adding another Orb to create a Mod 2. Contact Orb for specifics. When I heard the Mod 2 and Mod 1 the 2 was a bit fuller sounding than the 1. Voices sounded more natural and the front stage had a bit more punch during action sequences. Why dont you buy a Mod 2 and try it out. If you do not like it send it back. These where just my impressions and not enormous or huge differences. But your always looking for tweaks.

As far as music goes I only listen to CD's in stereo because this was the inteded way to listen to CD's. This offers the most accurate representation of what the artist wants the listener to hear. I only listen to concert DVD's in 5.1 if they have the mix. If there is no 5.1 mix I will listen in stereo.

As far as setting levels go on the center I would use an SPL meter and set it to the industry standard of 75db. Granted you dont seem to like SPL meters or the industry standards and like to set things your way so set it to where you think is best.

[shokhead]

We need to get him off the orbs. He would be happily surprised.

[EdwardGein]

"why do you use your center speaker when listening to cd"

I prefer to listen to CD's on all 5 speakers & a sub in All Channel Natural mode instead of 2 speakers & a Sub. For me, it gives the audio sound more depth. Other people don't agree with that.

[anamorphic96]

Sorry I was outta town. If you're not going to change speakers, then there's really not anything left to improve, except for moving to separates (and high end components) which will cost at least $2k and the improvement may be lost on your speakers, but who knows until you try. Anything short of that will result in marginal changes that may not translate into "improvement."

Paul your assesment is dead on. Unless Ed changes speakers his Orb's will always be the limitng factor. While Orb's are great for what they are they where not designed for all out performance. They where designed as an alternative to the crappy Bose cube speakers. So aesethitics are the big thing with Orb's not all out performace. The difference being is Orb's sound much better than Bose and they dont rip you off with sky high prices.

[EdwardGein]

[QUOTE=anamorphic96]I do not own Orb's but have spent some time with them. It's not as easy as just adding another Orb to create a Mod 2. Contact Orb for specifics. When I heard the Mod 2 and Mod 1 the 2 was a bit fuller sounding than the 1. Voices sounded more natural and the front stage had a bit more punch during action sequences. Why dont you buy a Mod 2 and try it out. If you do not like it send it back. These where just my impressions and not enormous or huge differences. But your always looking for tweaks."

Yeah, good idea. I'm friends with one of the owners who lives somewhat near me & I'll give him a call on that & see what he says in regards to the Mod 2 sounding different then the 2 Mod 1's I connected.

[N. Abstentia]

"why do you use your center speaker when listening to cd"

I prefer to listen to CD's on all 5 speakers & a sub in All Channel Natural mode instead of 2 speakers & a Sub. For me, it gives the audio sound more depth. Other people don't agree with that.

Does anybody else find the irony in listening to a 2 channel CD through a 5 channels of matrixed signal processsing then referring to it is 'All Natural'?

That's kinda like calling Pam Anderson a sweet flowery all natural virgin.

[musicman1999]

well said.If its recorded in 2 channel play it back in 2 channel,as was intended.Any kind of dsp changes the sound.

bill

[EdwardGein]

Each to their own but if you insist on being devout to the letter, then you shouldn't listen to CDs through a sub either. In regards to 5 all natural channel sound, it is just that, your getting the same left & right on the fronts as you do in the back, nothing is electronically altered & the center speaker is essentially the left & right channels combined, I prefer to listen to CDs that way, you guys don't, each to their own. But if you want to take this further, then DVD-A & SACD isn't natural either for old recordings originally recorded in 2 channels. Those recordings are then either electronically altered or remixed into 5 channels even though they were never intended to be heard that way. "In order to save the village, we must destroy it!"

[musicman1999]

ed

each to his own to be sure.But when i use my sub with 2 channel it runs off the front speaker pre outs,no processing is required.The cd player is connected to the reciever through a direct input that bypasses all internal processing.It skips the dsp chip.Now denon may call their 5 channel stereo all natural but i assure you it is processed to create the extra channels.
Have you tried 2 channel since you moved your speakers,try it.Nothing to lose.

bill

[EdwardGein]

Just a matter of taste I don't like 2 channel sound no matter how good it is because 5 channel for me gives everything more depth

[anamorphic96]

Hey Ed if you dont think the DSP mode you are using is processed please refer to Chapter 11, page 53 of your manual where it outlines the sound mode you are using. It states that the sound modes you call 5 channel stereo are actually a synthetically created surround mode using DSP. Digital Signal Processing. So in a nut shell what you call natural is very processed indeed. If you dont believe us call Denon.

Also just because someone is using a subwoofer does not mean it's processed. A subwoofer is used to extend the frequency response of speakers. Nothing more. Go ask the folks at Orb if you dont believe us.

Also keep in mind I have no issues with you listening in this mode just wanted to point out that what you are hearing is very processed. As you stated to each their own.

[EdwardGein]

The bottom line if what your saying is right, its still less reprocessed then ProLogic or the rest of the DSP's & I personally prefer to hear CD's this way. If there is some alteration as you are saying, I don't notice it.

[anamorphic96]

I didn't say it. Denon did. It's in your manual.

[shokhead]

well said.If its recorded in 2 channel play it back in 2 channel,as was intended.Any kind of dsp changes the sound.

bill

Well some of us think it changes it for the better. I just dont listen to your basic stereo,its so flat. And i dont expect any of you that thinks its the way it was intended to ever use SACD/DVD-A or DTS or a concert on DVD but all of this isnt helping ED,only different speakers will.

[musicman1999]

not true shokhead

i have many concert dvd's,an sacd player and a dvd-audio player.Many concert dvd have a lpcm to channrl mix that is far superior to the compressed dolby digital track.But i do enjoy multi channel concert mixes that put audience sounds and echos behind you,i just dont like hearing the bass player over my left shoulder and the sax player over the other one.Studio recordings are mixed to come from in front of you and my preference is to hear it that way.I have tried neo-6 and pl2,just not my thing.Buy the way sacd and dvd-a can be played back in stereo and they sound great.
just my opinion,to each his own.
bill

[musicman1999]

oh but your right,ed does need new speakers.The orbs just dont have enough extension.Always the best place to start rebuiding your system.
bill

[N. Abstentia]

Each to their own but if you insist on being devout to the letter, then you shouldn't listen to CDs through a sub either. In regards to 5 all natural channel sound, it is just that, your getting the same left & right on the fronts as you do in the back, nothing is electronically altered & the center speaker is essentially the left & right channels combined, I prefer to listen to CDs that way, you guys don't, each to their own. But if you want to take this further, then DVD-A & SACD isn't natural either for old recordings originally recorded in 2 channels. Those recordings are then either electronically altered or remixed into 5 channels even though they were never intended to be heard that way. "In order to save the village, we must destroy it!"

Using a sub does not add anything artificial. It's just a speaker that reproduces the lowest octaves from the source.

As far as SACD and DVD-A, those are not DSP's. Those are sourced from the original multi-track recordings.